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Merry Olde Historie

SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
edited July 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
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A thread for interesting events and peoples of previous days that happen to catch your fancy, and which you want to share or discuss.

Reading an article in FA by Max Boot I came across the story of Koxinga, a chinese pirate of the 17th century who lead at one point over 100,000 men and ended up conquering Taiwan from the Dutch.

Wiki Article

Here's to you Koxinga. It's nice to come across someone interesting in Chinese history, since I don't know much about it.

Koxinga_warship.jpg

Speaker on
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Posts

  • YannYann Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I approve of this. Always love it when I find something like this on a Wikipedia-binge.

    Yann on
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    This probably won't interest many other people (except possibly Gosling), but Congress' composition in the early 20th century was completely different from the way it is now. In the 60th Congress, Republicans held 61 seats to the Democrats' 29 in the Senate, with both seats in every state north of Tennessee but Kentucky, Virginia, Maryland, Missouri, Colorado, and Nevada, the latter three of which were split. In the 64th Congress, Democrats had 56 seats out of 96, having taken several seats in the Northeast, Rust Belt, Midwest, and West Coast, while retaining every Southern seat.

    Captain Carrot on
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited July 2009
    Growing up, the story of the downfall of Qarmatians was always funny to me.
    They are most famed for their revolt against the Abbasid Caliphate and particularly with their seizure of the Black Stone from Mecca and desecration of the Well of Zamzam with Muslim corpses during the Hajj season of 930 CE.
    That's what made them famous, but it's not the funny bit.

    The Qarmatians' goal was to build a society based on reason and equality. The state was governed by a council of six with a chief who was a first among equals. All property within the community was distributed evenly among all initiates. The Qarmatians were organized as an esoteric society but not as a secret one; their activities were public and openly propagated, but new members had to undergo an initiation ceremony involving seven stages. In an echo of cyclical Mazdean thought, the Qarmatian world view was one where every phenomenon repeated itself in cycles, where every incident was replayed over and over again.

    The land they ruled over was extremely wealthy with a huge slave based economy according to academic Yitzhak Nakash.

    ...

    In 931, Abu Tahir turned over the reins of the state in Bahrain to a young Persian in who he had recognised the expected Mahdi. However, this proved a disastrous decision for the Qarmati movement. Manifesting strong anti-Arab and antinomian sentiments, he cursed Muhammed and other prophets in addition to instituting a number of strange ceremonies that further shocked the Muslims. At any rate, after some 80 days, when the Persian Mahdi had begun to execute the notables of Bahrayn, Abu Tahir was obliged to admit that the Mahdi had been an imposter, and had him killed. The episode of the Persian Mahdi further damaged the image of the Qarmatis of Bahrain and weakened their influence over the Qarmati communities in the East.”
    I always loved that. My favorite "make a random person king" story, because it's real.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qarmatian

    Elki on
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  • SpeakerSpeaker Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I feel like somehow Loren discovered how to use a time machine.

    That is awesome Elki.

    Speaker on
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Well, this is kinda pushing it but...

    Neolithic Europe is pretty interesting. Basically, the neolithic is when the hunter-gatherers of the past 200,000 years or so began to settle down into permanent, agriculturally-oriented groups. Things like organized religion, government, trade, and all the trappings of "society" as we know it were in their infancy, yet from what we know about these people they had very sophisticated ways of observing the world and shaping their environment; the megalithic structures of ancient Europe would be difficult to replicate even today.

    (Note that the above applies to just about everywhere in the world during what we call the Neolithic period, although Europe had particularly cool artifacts/structures/etc.)

    The catch? Well... technically this isn't "history", since these people left no written records, and it's only through archaeological analysis that we can reconstruct their lives.

    Barring that, I've always been interested in antiquity - especially Jewish history from the diaspora to the rabbinic period. Hopefully, that's what I'll get to study in grad school, at least if I get accepted to such a program.

    Duffel on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Well I've posted it here before but the Sacred Band of Thebes always fascinated me. An entire army of what would now be called homosexual couples. (although this was ancient Greece so one of the pair was always much younger)
    And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?
    The Sacred Band under Pelopidas fought the Spartans at Tegyra in 375 BC, vanquishing an army that was at least three times its size. It was also responsible for the victory at Leuctra in 371 BC, called by Pausanias the most decisive battle ever fought by Greeks against Greeks. Leuctra established Theban independence from Spartan rule and laid the groundwork for the expansion of Theban power, but possibly also for Philip II's eventual victory.

    Defeat came at the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC), the decisive contest in which Philip II of Macedon, with his son Alexander, extinguished the Theban hegemony. Alexander became the first to break through the Band's line,[8] which had thitherto been thought invincible. The traditional hoplite infantry was no match for the novel long-speared Macedonian phalanx: the Theban army and its allies broke and fled, but the Sacred Band, although surrounded and overwhelmed, refused to surrender. It held its ground and fell where it stood. Plutarch records that Philip II, on encountering the corpses "heaped one upon another", understanding who they were, exclaimed,

    "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."

    They have a monument at their burial site in Thebes.

    MuddBudd on
    There's no plan, there's no race to be run
    The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
  • CristoCristo Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    D'awww bless, that's so sweet.

    Cristo on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Jack the Ripper

    Jack the Ripper is a pseudonym given to an unidentified serial killer[1] active in the largely impoverished Whitechapel area and adjacent districts of London, England, in late 1888. The name originated in a letter sent to the London Central News Agency by someone claiming to be the murderer.

    The victims were women earning income as prostitutes. Most victims' throats were slit, after which the bodies were mutilated. The removal of internal organs from three of the victims led some officials at the time of the murders to propose that the killer possessed anatomical or surgical knowledge.[2]

    Newspapers, whose circulation had been growing during this era,[3] bestowed widespread and enduring notoriety on the killer because of the savagery of the attacks and the failure of the police to capture the murderer.[4][5]

    Because the killer's identity has never been confirmed, the legends surrounding the murders have become a combination of genuine historical research, folklore, and pseudohistory. Many authors, historians, and amateur detectives have proposed theories about the identity of the killer and his victims.

    SkutSkut on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I learned about the Islamic Golden Age and all the scientific achievements of India and China through wiki articles. It lent a great broadness of perspective to my view of history, as the information I had been given up to that point seemed to suggest that Greeks and Romans and contemporary Europe were the only fonts of empiricism and reason.

    What catalyzed my search into these areas? Why none other than this man.

    Tam on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I love learning about the history of math and science. I mentioned I brought an ebook on the history of math with me to the beach earlier this summer, and I just started one on the history of science.

    My favourite tidbit of all: Why are there 60 seconds per minute, 60 minutes per hour, and 60 minutes per degree?

    Because the Babylonians used a base-60 counting system. They did humanity's first work in astronomy in base-60 over 4000 years ago, and did it so thoroughly and kept such detailed and complete records that they have influenced everyone since then, up to and including us. When the Hubble Telescope is aimed at the heavens, it's aimed using a measuring system thought up 4000 years ago by a long-gone civilization of which all that remains is only a few mud-brick walls in the middle of the desert.

    But what really gets me dreaming is, why did they use a base-60 counting system? Common systems for early civilizations include 5 (the fingers of one hand), 10 (both hands), 20 (fingers and toes), and 6 (a small and easily dividable number that pops up from time to time). But 60?

    A lot of common explanations fall flat. "60 is easily factorisable". Yes, but no one can develop factors before having a mathematical system, and besides, a mathematical base is not intelligently chosen while planning ahead. "It's a divider of 360, approximately the number of days in the year". But we know the Babylonians had a much more precise approximation of the number of days in a year. One explanation that remains is that the Babylonian system was actually the fusion of two older systems, from two other civilizations (one with a base-10 system and one with a base-6 system) which became merged overtime. I really like that suggestion. Babylon is typically considered the first, oldest human civilization, yet here is evidence that not one but two even older civilizations existed, of which we know absolutely nothing.

    Richy on
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Random tidbit from military and language history.

    In about 300BC, Pyrrhus of Epirus, a Greek general, led a very successful invasion of Rome. His armies slashed through the Roman peninsula, winning battle after battle. Unfortunately, with each victory he got deeper into Roman land and farther away from his supply lines. Moreover, he was suffering losses and driving further and further away from reinforcements, while the Romans were continuously and easily replenishing their forces.

    One day, as one of his officers reported victory after a particularly costly battle, Pyrrhus exclaimed "one more victory like this, and I shall be undone!"

    And this is where the expression "Pyrrhic victory" comes from.

    Richy on
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  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Richy wrote: »
    Babylon is typically considered the first, oldest human civilization, yet here is evidence that not one but two even older civilizations existed, of which we know absolutely nothing.
    No. Babylon is one of the oldest, but the oldest is Sumer.

    Captain Carrot on
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Did you know...?

    By the 12th Century, the Church in Ireland pretty much gave lip service to Rome, but Christianity in the country was a unique Celtic Catholicism, rather than Roman. This was part of the motivation for Pope Adrian IV - the only confirmed English Pope - to issue a Papal Bull in 1158 giving England Overlordship over Ireland, so that Irish Christianity would be brought into line with Rome. The English king Henry II didn't act on this edict until 1170. Since 1166, various Norman and Welsh nobles had been sending troops to assist the deposed king of Leinster Dermot MacMurrough in his struggle against the High King Rory O'Connor. Fearing these Nobles setting up a rival state, Henry sent his own troops in, with the High King accepting the overlordship in 1174 as part of the Treaty of Windsor.

    Of course, this backfired against Rome six Henrys later.

    RMS Oceanic on
  • Suicide SlydeSuicide Slyde Haunts your dreams of mountains sunk below the seaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    History.. what?! I'll bite. My last semester in college I had a pretty awesome class that was about the history of surgery. Which makes absolutely no sense to anyone who knows me because I that stuff typically makes me sick. In the end I found it to be a completely different take on humanity, as someone who usually studies the wars and political intrigues, it was interesting to look at people who wanted to heal the injuries from the wars and political intrigues or just figure out what made us tick. Plus the final exam was made up of questions that the entire class wrote.

    Maybe in the morning I'll pull out one of the books and find out some interesting shit.

    Suicide Slyde on
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I've always been a fan of Rasputin. Anyone that can be eviscerated*, poisoned, shot and beaten and live long enough to be taken to the river and drowned is one tough cookie.

    Hmm, I think I'll make an NPC in the Eberron campaign I am planning based on Rasputin.
    So the evisceration was a few years before the rest of the stuff, one generally doesn't survive having ones guts hanging out onto the pavement in early 20th century Russia.

    Tomanta on
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    How utterly expansive the influence of the Vikings was always amazes me, and how simply huge the Mongol empire was at its height. Along those lines is also Ibn Batutta's journey, around 75,000 miles.

    Also how the black plague got to Norway: A ship from England with everyone on board dead floated into the harbour at Bergen.

    L|ama on
  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I like Caligula too. He had a bridge built across a river and rode his horse across it to spite a soothsayer.

    SkutSkut on
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    In my home state of Washington, one of my favorite historical tidbits is the Pig War.

    Even more interestingly, Major Henry Robert of "Robert's Rules of Order" fame was stationed in the San Juan's during this period and used the time to work on his book.

    DoctorArch on
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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Speaker wrote: »
    I feel like somehow Loren discovered how to use a time machine.

    That is awesome Elki.

    what did I do

    Loren Michael on
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited July 2009
    Speaker wrote: »
    I feel like somehow Loren discovered how to use a time machine.

    That is awesome Elki.

    what did I do

    The story I posted.

    Elki on
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  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Archgarth wrote: »
    In my home state of Washington, one of my favorite historical tidbits is the Pig War.

    Even more interestingly, Major Henry Robert of "Robert's Rules of Order" fame was stationed in the San Juan's during this period and used the time to work on his book.

    Didn't they make a Hey Arnold! episode about the Pig War?

    Also, Taft was apparently a pretty cool dude. He was extremely popular with the Filipinos he oversaw as the governor there, bringing peace to the end of an uprising. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Howard_Taft

    never die on
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Though Japan and Asia are my actual area of study, I have a deep interest in Middle Eastern and religious history. While skimming my normal news sites I came up with this little piece of history being digitized and put online.

    Codex Sinaiticus

    It's the worlds oldest collected bible. It is about 1,600 years old and is in Greek. Contains books that aren't in the current Hebrew scriptures or accepted by Christianity. It was found in 1844 and split into 3 parts. Now it's back together as one online for the first time. Just kind of an interesting piece of history.

    British Museum's official site: www.codexsinaiticus.org

    Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus

    Mazzyx on
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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Elki wrote: »
    Speaker wrote: »
    I feel like somehow Loren discovered how to use a time machine.

    That is awesome Elki.

    what did I do

    The story I posted.

    can't prove a god damn thing

    Loren Michael on
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  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    This is an interesting thing.

    You know the Bismarck, right? Big, German warship? It's famous for Churchill's declaration that we must sink the Bismarck. And that's all I knew. I went to the library maybe five years ago in search of something completely unrelated... and came across a book on the warship Tirpitz. Tirpitz was a sister ship of the Bismarck- she mostly stayed in moorings, but nonetheless impressed a serious threat upon Allied forces. Her mere presence forced the diverting of not insignificant naval defenses to her possible paths of travel. She was a beast! Who cares, though, right- just a big ship no one knew about. Then I started to think about it even more.

    Many hundreds of men were certainly involved in the building of this ship. For them, this was the biggest project of their lives- nothing could ever exceed it. They were involved in the construction of one of the most portentous vessels of WW2 (despite its relative obscurity), and it was probably the most important thing they ever did... but for many years I never knew it existed. And shit like that must happen all the time.

    Organichu on
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I suspect that Britannic, Titanic's younger sister, suffers in a similar manner, especially since she never carried a paying passenger before sinking as a Hospital ship in 1916.

    RMS Oceanic on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Do they build these ships in twos for a reason?

    oldmanken on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Why are there 24 hours in a day?

    Looking at the sky at night, the Ancient Egyptians could see 12 different constellations rising at roughly equal interval. Hence the idea to divide night time into 12 hours. And with 12 hour night, it's only natural to divide the day into 12 hours as well, which they could keep track off using sundials.

    But wait! That means you'll always have a constant 12 hours from sunrise to sunset, and 12 hours from sunset to sunrise. As we all know, the length of daylight in a day increases and decreases throughout the year. So the Ancient Egyptian actually had daytime hours that were longer in the summer and shorter in the winter, and vice-versa from the nighttime hours. It wasn't until Ancient Greece that hours were defined as a fixed amount of time.

    Richy on
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Threes, actually.

    The first one, Olympic, had a long and happy career, except for the HMS Hawke incident, and ramming the Nantucket Lightship. After she was launched in 1910, the keel for Britannic (originally Gigantic) was laid while Titanic was built in the slipway next to her. After Titanic sank, they felt Gigantic was a bit arrogant, so they changed it to something more patriotic, seeing how World War I was round the corner.

    RMS Oceanic on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I love how people tend to end up forgotten by the waysides of history. Take for instance Brunelleschi. He's your fairly typical Renaissance artist. A little work in bronze, some paintings, etc. But he played a kind of important role in history.

    Florance in 1418 had a problem. One that was making them look some what stupid. They built a massive cathedral, a huge work to glorify god. An absolutely beautiful building with one massive flaw. It didn't have a dome. In fact, according to the builders of the time, it wasn't physically possible to build a dome for it. Everytime it rains the Archbishop gets wet. It was making them look bad. So along comes this young banker, Cosimo de'Medici. And he's got a problem. His problem is that he has a PR issue. So he announces he's going to build the dome for this Cathedral. He has various artists show him how the propose to hold the dome up, and he makes them show it using an egg and a block of marble. Brunelleschi takes the egg and breaks the bottom and then places it facing upwards on the block. He gets the job.

    And he builds his dome, in the process reinventing the reversing gear. So why should history remember him? Well Cosimo rides the acclaim of this into becoming the banker to talk to in Europe. I can hear you saying so what, bear with me. Cosimo now has lots of money and power, and he puts it to use. He gets the Pope to move the Ecumenical council from Ferrara to Florance. This brings in scholars from Byzantine Empire. Cosimo is also doing what rich men did and is a patron of the arts. This combination lights off the Italian Renaissance. Every Italian artist of the period ends up linked to the de'Medici family some how. Kind of a big deal, it's easy to see how Brunelleschi can get lost in the shuffle. But he did one more thing of note.

    He invented linear perspective, allowing the artists of the time to paint things as they saw them. So instead of the middle ages 2-D artwork, he gives us the beautiful paintings of the Italian Renaissance. This makes him kind of a big deal.

    Thomamelas on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So the dome catches the water? That's all sorts of clever.

    Improvolone on
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So the dome catches the water? That's all sorts of clever.

    No, it prevents it from falling into the church. The lack of dome made it somewhat open air.

    Thomamelas on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yes, I understand that it was open air and now it wasn't.
    Maybe I'm confused. What cathedral is this in Florence? (was that a stupid question?)
    edit: Yes, stupid question. I don't understand how other artists couldn't find the answer to this problem. Were they used to making domes with a lower height?

    Improvolone on
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  • RecklessReckless Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Guys, how about the Nedelin Catastrophe? In October of 1960, a Soviet ICBM exploded on the launch pad at Baikonur, taking plus or minus 120 lives. The Soviet government covered it up nearly completely until the 1990s.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    The Nedelin catastrophe or Nedelin disaster was a launch pad accident that occurred on 24 October 1960, at Baikonur Cosmodrome during the development of the Soviet R-16 ICBM. As a prototype of the missile was being prepared for a test flight, it exploded on the launch pad when its second stage motors ignited prematurely, killing many military personnel, engineers, and technicians working on the project. The official death toll was 90, but estimates are as high as 200, with 120 being the generally accepted figure. Despite the magnitude of the disaster, news of it was covered up for many years by the Soviet government and did not emerge until the 1990s. Strategic Rocket Forces Marshal Mitrofan Nedelin, the commander of the R-16 development program, was among those killed in the explosion and fire.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nedelin_catastrophe

    Reckless on
  • CristoCristo Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Err, is it Santa Croce? I've been and it's astonishing.

    Cristo on
  • Lia ParkerLia Parker __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    Hahaha Its truly interesting.

    Lia Parker on
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yes, I understand that it was open air and now it wasn't.
    Maybe I'm confused. What cathedral is this in Florence? (was that a stupid question?)
    edit: Yes, stupid question. I don't understand how other artists couldn't find the answer to this problem. Were they used to making domes with a lower height?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Cathedral#Dome

    Yeah, I don't know if he's trying to say that Brunelleschi reinvented the dome or something, but he didn't. Domes were used in Muslim architecture, having been adopted from from Byzantine architecture.

    If I remember right the idea that he had was to have the dome be supported by the walls of the cathedral rather than sitting on top of a wooden roof.

    tsmvengy on
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  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yes, I understand that it was open air and now it wasn't.
    Maybe I'm confused. What cathedral is this in Florence? (was that a stupid question?)
    edit: Yes, stupid question. I don't understand how other artists couldn't find the answer to this problem. Were they used to making domes with a lower height?

    The problem was the weight of the dome. Any of them could build a dome to cover it. The trick was making sure the dome didn't collapse in on itself and crush the archbishop below.

    Thomamelas on
  • CristoCristo Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    So, how did he solve it? I didn't get the egg reference.

    Did he build special supports or arches for it etc. ?

    Cristo on
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    tsmvengy wrote: »
    Yes, I understand that it was open air and now it wasn't.
    Maybe I'm confused. What cathedral is this in Florence? (was that a stupid question?)
    edit: Yes, stupid question. I don't understand how other artists couldn't find the answer to this problem. Were they used to making domes with a lower height?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Cathedral#Dome

    Yeah, I don't know if he's trying to say that Brunelleschi reinvented the dome or something, but he didn't. Domes were used in Muslim architecture, having been adopted from from Byzantine architecture.

    If I remember right the idea that he had was to have the dome be supported by the walls of the cathedral rather than sitting on top of a wooden roof.

    No, I didn't say he invented the dome. But he did come up with the technique to allow a masonry dome to be made to such a large scale. The trick is that the dome is really two domes with inner ribs and supports. He also pioneered the use of the herringbone pattern to keep the bricks from falling inwards.

    Thomamelas on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Okay.
    awesome

    Improvolone on
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