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Blood Bowl Serials controversy!
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If the product that G2Play is selling you doesnt live up to its expectations, then I'm sure being a model and legit business they would have no problem providing you with an exchange or refund right?
Hey, that guy selling computer and stereo parts out of his van has some great deals. What right does the Police have in taking it all away again from me.
MWO: Adamski
What, on the PC? I don't think you see much region locking of computer software unless it's purchased through a content delivery system like Steam.
EDIT: If I had to guess, I would say that the way most companies avoid this is simply not selling into territories that can't bear a comparably high price point.
I said no to the game as soon as I saw they wanted to charge £40 for it against $50 anyway.
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
Anecdotally, they do a lot of business selling CD keys for Valve games and Valve has not gone after them in any way; I'm inclined to think they're honestly run.
but if G2play obtained their keys legally (including buying them en masse from say an asian country offering substantially lower priced games) I dont see why in any shape or form that cyanide should ban the keys. as the first sale doctrine, from my understanding of it, clearly allows them to be sold.
It is absolutely retarded in this day and age to release something digital like this in vastly different markets at vastly different prices, then get all butthurt when people buy the cheaper version.
The company selling the cd-keys is as legal as people selling Collector's Editions of WoW on eBay and Amazon, if the stories that they bought a ton of Chinese copies are true. They bought the game (and the legit cd key), and they are well within their rights to sell the key at any price they want. If they bought 20,000 copies legitimately, and decided to sell the keys for a buck fiddy, there's not a law in the world that can stop them.
Yes, it potentially costs the game developer/manufactuer money, but just about every company does the exact same thing when they manufacture their discs, boxes, etc. in China or Taiwan. They can get the same product, materials, and so on in Europe or the USA, but it costs 5 times as much.
The fact that this company (and Sony with their shenanigans with the PSP, as well as many others) get mad when common sense doesn't allow them to milk their customer base is absolutely asinine.
Now, having said all that, since it's their game (and potentially servers, matchmaking software, etc.), they are within their rights to ban everyone if their EULA states that they can close the game down at any time (like EA). It's a dickhole move, but it's not any more dickholish than people, in a global economy like ours, wanting to save money by buying from someone who follows the same business plan as every company ever, potentially even the company throwing a hissy fit right now.
It's not the customer's fault that they didn't realize that someone, whether it was an importer of these other guys, would make the cheap versions available to people who would normally be forced to pay 4 times the amount for the exact same product.
Or Valve is a large enough publisher that they can survive an unlicensed/unauthorized dealer undercutting them in some markets.
Lack of legal action doesnt necessitate that the actions taken were legal. And from what I can find G2Play head office is listed as being in Singapore, but if you actually try to find them as a listed business in Singapore, they dont exist, and all payments are done through Paypal...
MWO: Adamski
Since its Digitally distributed the idea here is that G2play may have bought them for 10 bucks a pop, is selling them for 15.... to people around the world including the US and Europe where they are charging at least double.
Edit: Therefore cyanide is missing out on an opportunity for more dollas.
Anecdotally as well I have bought blizzard game keys and know several others who have as well, and bound them to bnet accounts and they havent failed yet. I think we would get news of blizzard "warning against" and taking the company out not so silently in the middle of the night.
And this is against their distribution agreement? I mean if there isnt any and they just bought them to push, thats about it. It still sounds like "sucks to be us" syndrome. It sucks for other distributors so I understand them laying the smack down on the devs/publisher(who in turn lay another smack, legit or not), but thats the game.
2 Things:
1.) If it is a shell corporation that has no physical address and cannot be pinned down, then other companies are going to have a hell of a time trying to bring legal action against them in order to shut down their website.
2.) If they cant bring down the website to prevent further orders, then any public statements they make are just going to raise awareness of the G2Play and act as advertising. No sane company is going to loudly and publicly cry about someone else selling the same thing for less, unless it has a way to distinguish themselves as being the better option. Cyanide is the developer, but Focus Interactive is the publisher. And in this case, Cyanide/Focus is able to distinguish the out of region keys and black list them (allegedly).
MWO: Adamski
As an Aussie I import a lot of my titles as of late. Particularly from Europe when it comes to PC or Playstation titles.
Given the choice of paying 20 pounds ($40 Australian) or $90-120 retail the choice is fairly easy.
I may have missed this, but explain this in terms of the used game market. Pretty sure all the people selling their games to Gamestop are not licensed.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
Long story short; the discussion wasn't about used games, but new games, as the site in question is claiming that the "product" (i.e. questionably acquired keys) was new. The used game market is a different beast entirely, and a completely different subject.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
From a strictly legal sense ignoring practicality, enforcability and the ability to differentiate between rented game files and purchased ones yes that would probably be illegal. The game files were meant to be used with the rental for which your time and payment of has expired. I'm not saying I believe this is right in the moral sense, I'm saying that is how I understand it to be in the legal sense. If you believe in the game industry's typical you only own the liscense line there could be some arguement for its legality.
I fully agree. What's always been in question is whether or not they were legally obtained. The current answer from Cyanide/Focus is: no.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
IANAL, but that isn't how it works.
If you rent a game, what you've paid for is a license (with various stipulations as to how you can use it) to possess it until the rentor wants it back.
Buying a game is similar; you've purchased a license to possess a copy of that game under certain stipulations (that depend on locality but generally don't copy/distribute it is the major one.)
In this situation the CD key is essentially functioning as that license. If you bought a legitimate one, you have the license to play that game, regardless of where you bought the key or where the game files actualyl come from.
edit: another example would be, if I buy a game on steam or other digital distributor, but I don't feel like waiting on the download and my buddy has a hard copy, I'm perfectly within my rights to install from his disc and use the steam-purchased key.
edit2: assuming the keys being sold were legitimately obtained by purchased bulk copies in SE asia or something, I don't think there's a copyright violation here. In the U.S. I would think you'd have a hard time even enforcing a EULA violation, if it went to court.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
How is it different? As per EB Game's definition of "used" if you open a package, it is "used" even if you never really used it. Of course this doesn't apply when they do it with gutted games.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
EDIT: I'm not entirely sure what you point even is. A used game is used. A new game is new. If they said they were selling a second hand copy, a possibly used CD-key, that would be different. But they clearly say they are new keys and have never been used.
Hence new.
Thus the discussion is related to new games.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
This is what I mean.
Yeah, we KNOW what the semantics of new and used is. The onus is on you to show what the difference is and why it matters here.
In other words, you seem to be claiming that somehow "using" something (as defined differently by at least 3 or 4 different involved parties) makes it ok to resell, why?
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
At least thats what i got from the community manager requesting people to send keys they got in to them so they could figure out where they were from
Because "used" games are covered by the first sale doctrine. They technically own the game at that point and can sell it for whatever price they want without permission from the publisher. As new they're not the owners of the game and would have to get them through proper retail channels, be it a distributor or directly from the publisher. If the website in question didn't obtain them legitimately, which is pretty damn obvious in this case, the publisher and/or developer are fully within their rights to ban any keys provided by said site for violating their rights.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
The answer should be pretty easy for them to track down, after all. Just call around to their asian distros and see if anyone sold a bulk order to these guys.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Really? So when I buy a game, but never actually open it and keep it on a shelf, I don't actually own the game?
Are you sure that's the claim you want to make here? Someone should tell the people on Ebay selling old, unopened, mint condition games to collectors.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
If you purchase it, it's legal. Illegal means there is a statute against doing something.
Breaking a contract, or a EULA, for that matter, isn't illegal. Neither is most libel. It violates the contract. Within limits, if the company suffers harm from the the breach of the contract, they can sue.
The only way G2play could have gotten keys "illegally" is if they broke into Cyanide's offices and stole them, or are using a keygen, in which case you'd probably have to shoehorn it into DMCA-style stuff of circumventing copy protection. It's highly unlikely that G2play obtained keys illegally.
I can't believe everyone here is OK with software retailers trying to get away with perfect price discrimination.
I'm not sure where you're getting the inference that the website didn't obtain them legitimately - i'm sure they just picked them up cheap in asia where games are priced less.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
Yes, that, or the seller could easily provide proof of right to distribute; or if they got them from a distributor/reseller, where they got them and proof they were acquired legitimately.
But they haven't and likely wont.
Also, I'm sorry but it's pretty damn silly to vilify publishers like that. I mean, honestly; they are the means by which most of us get the games we play every day. Sure, their practices aren't always on the level, but for the love of all, talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I have no great love for publishers, but acting like they are all untrustworthy and only out to screw everyone is just asinine.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Again, this is pretty simple people, the key works here are "as long as my product is legally obtained".
FFS, the developer and publisher are saying that they weren't legally obtained and that is the entire point of this fucking discussion.
EDIT: I've said like a dozen times now that if the copies being sold by g2play are legitimate then nothing being done is wrong. I'm assuming that it isn't legitimate because although games are cheaper in various parts of Asia they're not $10USD for a brand new game cheap.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Well, of course if they're selling illegally obtained keys it's illegal. That is the whole question and it seems pretty fucking far from obvious to me, at least based on this thread.
That being said, it's a little hard for me to believe that a completely illegal operation is openly selling to U.S. customers. Like I said, it shouldn't be all that hard to figure out whether these keys are legit, and if they aren't it's not going to take very long for them to get figured out. Especially given the number of products they are selling on their website.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
What? Are you new to the internet? You find it hard to believe a company is illegally selling goods to U.S. customers? Is that a joke?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Having actually grown up in Asia, I beg to differ and say yes, some games are actually that cheap.
You assume they are actually doing this illegally because the company said so. Well guess what, I assume the companies are calling it illegal because it's better PR and they wish it was, not because it actually is illegal.
In fact here, http://www.zest.co.th/www/main/detail.php?product_id=GME0001890 Blood bowl is about 500 baht, about £9. As the OP said, they were selling it for £14. So yes, this is quite feasible.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
The burden isn't on them to prove 'right to distribute.'
And, I'm not acting like all publishers are untrustworthy, I am pointing out that content owners in the U.S. (especially corporate ones) do not have a history of being open and honest with consumers WRT to their rights. Especially when it's a case of being honest vs. the bottom line.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
How is it better PR? All it's going to do is get people who care about the topic to get more angry one way or another and probably hurt sales. The people who aren't in the know on the issue either won't hear about it or won't care anyway.
EDIT: Also it is shit like this that leads to more draconian protection measures through DRM or region locked codes/gameplay, etc.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand