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Screwed by the state (updated)
Hevach
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Ok, I got a ticket back in May. It was less than $50, defective equipmetn, I didn't even bother to care, just paid it.
Now, since then, several things have happened:
First off, on investigation, side lights don't qualify for defective equipment, only head and tail lights. Probably too late to do anything about this, I signed the ticket and took responsibility and paid it. Over, or so I assumed.
A week after paying the ticket, I recieved a bill from the state for a $200 driver responsibility fee, which the letter said is assessed on top of all tickets issued by non-state police. I paid this, it pissed me off, but I paid it, check dated 6/7, payment due 6/27.
Two weeks after mailing the first check, I recieved a second notice. I contacted the treasury and they said no payment had been recieved. I sent a second check and contacted the bank - it costs $25 to stop payment on a ticket, but I can get notification of when one clears for free, so I did that on the first check. For reference, second check was dated 6/20.
BOTH checks were cashed on 7/1, at the same bank, and cleared on 7/3, I got the call from the bank on the first check on 7/5. The first had been stamped in the endorse area 6/11, BEFORE the second notice, the second 6/30, the day before both checks were cashed. Both were paid to State of Michigan-SAC. At this point I contacted my bank (who started an investigation into the first check, and told me I'd have to wait up to 30 days to get a response), and the treasury department, who are doing likewise.
7/7, I recieve a final notice for nonpaymetn of the $200, this time with a nifty brocure about the Driver Responsibility fee. Defective equipment is NOT a qualifying offense for the fee. Nonetheless, my license was suspended on 7/4 (a week after the due date) for nonpayment.
My question, simply put: WTF?
Now, since then, several things have happened:
First off, on investigation, side lights don't qualify for defective equipment, only head and tail lights. Probably too late to do anything about this, I signed the ticket and took responsibility and paid it. Over, or so I assumed.
A week after paying the ticket, I recieved a bill from the state for a $200 driver responsibility fee, which the letter said is assessed on top of all tickets issued by non-state police. I paid this, it pissed me off, but I paid it, check dated 6/7, payment due 6/27.
Two weeks after mailing the first check, I recieved a second notice. I contacted the treasury and they said no payment had been recieved. I sent a second check and contacted the bank - it costs $25 to stop payment on a ticket, but I can get notification of when one clears for free, so I did that on the first check. For reference, second check was dated 6/20.
BOTH checks were cashed on 7/1, at the same bank, and cleared on 7/3, I got the call from the bank on the first check on 7/5. The first had been stamped in the endorse area 6/11, BEFORE the second notice, the second 6/30, the day before both checks were cashed. Both were paid to State of Michigan-SAC. At this point I contacted my bank (who started an investigation into the first check, and told me I'd have to wait up to 30 days to get a response), and the treasury department, who are doing likewise.
7/7, I recieve a final notice for nonpaymetn of the $200, this time with a nifty brocure about the Driver Responsibility fee. Defective equipment is NOT a qualifying offense for the fee. Nonetheless, my license was suspended on 7/4 (a week after the due date) for nonpayment.
My question, simply put: WTF?
Hevach on
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When you see those signs in the DMV about how it's a felony to threaten a state employee with violence, it's because of shit like this.
Did you mail in the checks? Do you have a receipt of some sort aside from the cashed check?
I should imagine you're entitled to at least full refund of the $200 check(s) if they've both been taken out of your account, and a free reinstatement of your license.
Seriously, just get all the information that corroborates your ordeal, and put it in the face of a county clerk. see what they'll do for you.
Saginaw County Courthouse: We don't have jurisdiction over Driver Responsibility fees.
Michigan Secretary of State: Until you resolve the dispute with the treasury we cannot reinstate your driver's license.
Michigan Department of Treasury: Best I could manage for now is that they've put a hold on the charge so I won't be piling up all sorts of additional nonpayment penalties. They claim neither check was cashed by them, and suggested that they were stolen.
Banks: Both checks were cashed properly by the treasury, and they got me a number to call for the bank that handled them, who confirmed. Both said it's just about impossible to fraudulently cash a check payable to a government agency - the "State of Michigan-SAC" on the check would have raised too many eyebrows if somebody had tried to cash it themselves. They gave me some information to write down and read back to the treasury people.
Treasury again: "We'll look into that..." but the chucklefuck insists it's my fault and I'm still responsible for the $200, but that if what I say is true the first two checks will go to unclaimed property and I'll be able to try to reclaim them later.
Traffic lawyer: "Oh, man, sounds like a good one," have a meeting tomorrow with him.
Google gives up a link to the Department of Community Health, and a link to the Southwestern Athletic Conference (Michigan high school sports).
I can has cheezburger, yes?
If you can produce the cancelled check and stuff, you should be okay.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Sounds like this is your best bet.
You have all the relevant documents, especially those images of the checks endorsed by the treasury and your bank statements. Your lawyer should have this cleared up without too much trouble but it will take a fair amount of banging heads against the blank edifice of bureaucracy.
Yes. You might also ask the lawyer about possibly dropping a line to the local media. They love jumping all over shit like this.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
But hey, at least our last few pension-raider governors are gone. Things are great for the retirees that didn't flee to Florida years ago.
Local media would probably be a lost cause, too. Nobody reads what's left of the Saginaw News anymore, they only print two days a week now. Half the local channels only rebroadcast chanel 5's news and after the way channel 5 covered the Eveland case in Grand Rapids, they'd most likely report that a "local man wishing to remain anonymous" is fighting to keep his car and license after refusing to pay a court-upheld traffic ticket. And if they cover it like they covered most of Mayor Stanley's stay in office, they'll say it was for the hit and run on 675 last month.
My lawyer did suggest that I stop dealing with the state, even after the bank investigation is finished. He's sure the state's investigation will turn up nothing if they're even actually bothering, and he seems keen on letting the state haul me into court and/or arrest me, just to get the story in front of a judge. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Second off, being arrested/hauled into court is nothing; it's far from the end of the world, and as an objective, non-lawyer observer, his advice seems pretty sound.
But at this point, just do what your lawyer tells you to do.
Probably won't accomplish shit, but hey, I'll post the reply if I get anything sufficiently funny.
I can't imagine they're going to need to actually haul you downtown and take prints
Really they could get by just having notice served for you to show up in court on the relevant date. Your lawyer sounds like he has it under control.
Edit: Should add, even if that isn't what they do in every case, the lawyer did tell me to either make arrangements to cover bail (which he's confident I can recover afterwards), or be prepared to spend the night in jail. Since I know what day the state will seek the warrant, hopefully I can be a step ahead and find out when they actually get it, take the next day off, and turn myself in.
Buah?
Man, they've really got their priorities in order!
You have now paid $400+ for something that was not even illegal, and they are still sending you notices that you haven't paid and will be arrested for non payment?
That is incredibly bizarre and I hope you get this worked out. Like everyone else said, listen to the lawyer. I think dealing with somebody in person is the only way any of this will be resolves, as it is easy for everyone else to just pass it on to someone else over the phone.
When checks come in, they're entered under their assessment number and then they're all cashed in one big pile. If somebody gets the number wrong or if a check is passed over, it still gets cashed but the assessment still says unpaid.
I've heard of it happening, but involving state income tax, and the documentation is robust enough to sort things out easily there. With this, there are no forms going back and forth, not even any signatures except the ones on my checks. The paper trail pretty much starts with the letter they sent me and ends with the check I sent back.
This whole ordeal sucked balls for you but I would pay my lawyer whatever i owed him (hopefully very little) and cut my losses. It's just not worth going to court over $200. If you honestly think you can get $400+money for lost work time or something it might be worth it but I just don't see it happening.