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Wherein surviving a zombie apocalypse is discussed in a frank manner. *REANIMATED OP*
Ceno
pizza timeRegistered User regular
pizza timeRegistered User regular
"The Dead Walk!": An examination of group psychology and crisis management as it pertains to a Class 3 outbreak of the undead and Penny Arcade forum goers.
Updated OP 9/26/09 - PLEASE READ FIRST!
Ahoy hoy, fellow patrons of Debate and Discourse! Allow me to introduce the premise of this here thread. I am an avid fan of examining group social reactions to a crisis (be it real, virtual, or hypothetical). Many of you classic WoWers may remember the Corrupted Blood plague of late 2005, and the stream of articles that followed it.
Links to articles about the Corrupted Blood plague:
They examined player reactions: the people who avoided it, the people who perpetuated it, the people who tried to contain it. I devoured that stuff, page by page, and very much look forward to something like that happening again in an MMO setting. I also followed - as I'm sure many others did - the reactions of the American populace en masse to the tragic events of 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina, specifically focusing on same-day reactions. I'm not an expert, scientist, psychologist, or any other type of accredited person in the field. I'm just an interested observer.
I'm also an avid fan of ZOMBIES. From Night of the Living Dead to Shaun of the Dead to Left 4 Dead, I gobble it up (no pun intended). Hopefully, a few of you are worth your salt and already have read or own copies of these books by Max Brooks:
The Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z:
If you haven't, you really should. World War Z, specifically, goes into disconcerting detail concerning reactions to a zombie outbreak, both personal and governmental. Special bonus: the audiobook has performances by Mark Hamill (yay!) and Rob Reiner (wha?), though it is an abridged version.
That's a lot of talk to get to a relatively simple point. I want you, forum dwellers, to explain how you would react to a genuine, end-of-the-world, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria outbreak of the walking dead.
Couple of important points to go over:
Try to be both realistic and honest.
It's one thing to say you'd go jack an army surplus truck and start fucking shit up, it's another to practically do it. So don't feel the need to embellish. If you'd go looting and hole up to wait it out, I want to hear it. If you would make love to your sweetie and then eat a bullet, I want to hear it. If you would spin in a circle screaming like a ninny untl you were devoured, I want to hear it.
Use your actual location to your advantage.
Imagine that you are at work or at home when a news broadcast come on explaining the situation. You know your city or your town. What are your goals? How do you get around? What are your priorities? How accessible are weapons?
The zombie horde.
There have been a lot of creative takes on the nature of zombiedom in film, television, and books. We're sticking with the classic shambler, as seen in the original Night of the Living Dead, Shaun of the Dead, and as described in both the Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z. Remove the head or destroy the brain.
The infection is indeed viral in nature. Exposure can result from injuries sustained from a zombie-proper, exposure to infected blood or other bodily fluids either through ingestion, injection, open sores or wounds, etc. Since it is viral, antibiotics have no effect, and immunizations are out of the question considering any exposure to the virus, however minute, leads to full-blown infection.
Symptoms.
(May vary due to person and/or nature of infection)
Hour 1 - Pain and discoloration (brown/purple) of the infected area. Immediate clotting of the wound (provided a wound is the infection's source).
Hour 5 - Fever (99-103 degrees F), chills, slight dementia, vomiting, acute joint pain.
Hour 8 - Numbing of extremeties and infected area, increased fever (103-106 degrees F), increased dementia, loss of muscle coordination.
Hour 11 - Lower body paralysis, overall numbness, slowed heart rate.
Hour 16 - Coma.
Hour 20 - Heart stoppage. Zero brain activity.
Hour 23 - Reanimation.
I do feel, however, that a lack of specific information is somewhat realistic. It can be assumed that a more thorough understanding of the mechanics of both the virus and the infected would not be attained until the fight for survival had been underway for a while.
Outbreak classifications.
CLASS 1: A low level outbreak, usually in a third world country or first world rural area. Infected numbers are low, usually around 20, with casualities reaching about 50, and a duration of one day to two weeks. There will be light law enforcement and media response, with the incidents being reported as homicides or something like, oh, say, swine flu.
CLASS 2: The number of infected can rise to up to one hundred, and these outbreaks take place in either urban areas or densely populated rural areas. The duration can be the same as a class 1, but these outbreaks will provoke an organized response, limiting the number and effectiveness of pluckly survival gangs. Media coverage will be present, if not accurate.
CLASS 3: A genuine crisis, with zombie numbers swelling into the thousands. Media blackouts will be impossible, and the military becomes the primary form of law enforcement. Expect declarations of martial law, riots, looting, and widespread panic. The primary infested area will be in a state of emergency, and essentially lost to the swarms of the undead.
CLASS 4: Living in an undead world.
Dive in, guys. Feel free to help each other out. If there are some of you from the same area, help each other out. Suggest locales and survival tips to each other. I look forward to reading what you guys have to offer.
9/26 UPDATE: Added detailed description of infection process. Added in outbreak class descriptions. (As taken from The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks.)
Updated OP 9/26/09 - PLEASE READ FIRST!
Ahoy hoy, fellow patrons of Debate and Discourse! Allow me to introduce the premise of this here thread. I am an avid fan of examining group social reactions to a crisis (be it real, virtual, or hypothetical). Many of you classic WoWers may remember the Corrupted Blood plague of late 2005, and the stream of articles that followed it.
Links to articles about the Corrupted Blood plague:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4272418.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupted_Blood_incident
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/gadgets_and_gaming/article2296354.ece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupted_Blood_incident
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/gadgets_and_gaming/article2296354.ece
They examined player reactions: the people who avoided it, the people who perpetuated it, the people who tried to contain it. I devoured that stuff, page by page, and very much look forward to something like that happening again in an MMO setting. I also followed - as I'm sure many others did - the reactions of the American populace en masse to the tragic events of 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina, specifically focusing on same-day reactions. I'm not an expert, scientist, psychologist, or any other type of accredited person in the field. I'm just an interested observer.
I'm also an avid fan of ZOMBIES. From Night of the Living Dead to Shaun of the Dead to Left 4 Dead, I gobble it up (no pun intended). Hopefully, a few of you are worth your salt and already have read or own copies of these books by Max Brooks:
The Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z:
If you haven't, you really should. World War Z, specifically, goes into disconcerting detail concerning reactions to a zombie outbreak, both personal and governmental. Special bonus: the audiobook has performances by Mark Hamill (yay!) and Rob Reiner (wha?), though it is an abridged version.
That's a lot of talk to get to a relatively simple point. I want you, forum dwellers, to explain how you would react to a genuine, end-of-the-world, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria outbreak of the walking dead.
Couple of important points to go over:
Try to be both realistic and honest.
It's one thing to say you'd go jack an army surplus truck and start fucking shit up, it's another to practically do it. So don't feel the need to embellish. If you'd go looting and hole up to wait it out, I want to hear it. If you would make love to your sweetie and then eat a bullet, I want to hear it. If you would spin in a circle screaming like a ninny untl you were devoured, I want to hear it.
Use your actual location to your advantage.
Imagine that you are at work or at home when a news broadcast come on explaining the situation. You know your city or your town. What are your goals? How do you get around? What are your priorities? How accessible are weapons?
The zombie horde.
There have been a lot of creative takes on the nature of zombiedom in film, television, and books. We're sticking with the classic shambler, as seen in the original Night of the Living Dead, Shaun of the Dead, and as described in both the Zombie Survival Guide and World War Z. Remove the head or destroy the brain.
The infection is indeed viral in nature. Exposure can result from injuries sustained from a zombie-proper, exposure to infected blood or other bodily fluids either through ingestion, injection, open sores or wounds, etc. Since it is viral, antibiotics have no effect, and immunizations are out of the question considering any exposure to the virus, however minute, leads to full-blown infection.
Symptoms.
(May vary due to person and/or nature of infection)
Hour 1 - Pain and discoloration (brown/purple) of the infected area. Immediate clotting of the wound (provided a wound is the infection's source).
Hour 5 - Fever (99-103 degrees F), chills, slight dementia, vomiting, acute joint pain.
Hour 8 - Numbing of extremeties and infected area, increased fever (103-106 degrees F), increased dementia, loss of muscle coordination.
Hour 11 - Lower body paralysis, overall numbness, slowed heart rate.
Hour 16 - Coma.
Hour 20 - Heart stoppage. Zero brain activity.
Hour 23 - Reanimation.
I do feel, however, that a lack of specific information is somewhat realistic. It can be assumed that a more thorough understanding of the mechanics of both the virus and the infected would not be attained until the fight for survival had been underway for a while.
Outbreak classifications.
CLASS 1: A low level outbreak, usually in a third world country or first world rural area. Infected numbers are low, usually around 20, with casualities reaching about 50, and a duration of one day to two weeks. There will be light law enforcement and media response, with the incidents being reported as homicides or something like, oh, say, swine flu.
CLASS 2: The number of infected can rise to up to one hundred, and these outbreaks take place in either urban areas or densely populated rural areas. The duration can be the same as a class 1, but these outbreaks will provoke an organized response, limiting the number and effectiveness of pluckly survival gangs. Media coverage will be present, if not accurate.
CLASS 3: A genuine crisis, with zombie numbers swelling into the thousands. Media blackouts will be impossible, and the military becomes the primary form of law enforcement. Expect declarations of martial law, riots, looting, and widespread panic. The primary infested area will be in a state of emergency, and essentially lost to the swarms of the undead.
CLASS 4: Living in an undead world.
Dive in, guys. Feel free to help each other out. If there are some of you from the same area, help each other out. Suggest locales and survival tips to each other. I look forward to reading what you guys have to offer.
9/26 UPDATE: Added detailed description of infection process. Added in outbreak class descriptions. (As taken from The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks.)
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While a fair few people here have read the two Brooks titles, you may want to outline exactly how severe a Class 3 outbreak would be, how fast the infection would transmit, how many days has the populace been aware of it and the like, so that everyone is on the same page.
I'll post something up in a bit.
Also, what kind of zombies are we talking about (beyond the shambler/sprinter dichotomy)? Are they infected humans, and thus vulnerable to starvation, overwhelming physical trauma, predation, etc., or are they magical zombies vulnerable only to brain damage? I haven't seen most of the films you seem to be referencing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Springs_Aerial_Tramway
Besides the tram, the only way up the mountain is a several-hour hike, which I don't think any zombie, rage virus or shambler, can handle. I also imagine the 2 restaurants up there have enough food to last a couple of months.
The thing about the slow zombies is what happens when they show up in numbers? When they overrun your defenses and you have to run? You could just as easily trap yourself as you could get away. That's when the slow zombies are their scariest - when you're surrounded, and they slowly shamble toward you while you just watch and wait.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
1. Fast or slow zombies?
2. Will zombies convert me or eat me? (If it's an infection, is it transmitted in the air and I'm immune, or by touch and I'm vulnerable?)
3. How widespread is the outbreak/how much preparation time do I have?
However, the basic plan would probably keep several constants. My current residence has immediate access to a wide array of firearms, so I'd hit that up first. Pack up my car with as much food as I could, and make for Appalachia. It's only a couple hour drive, and if I climb one of the taller mountains, zombies would freeze to death before they could get to me (especially in winter). Meanwhile, I can wait out the infection for several weeks at least until the zombies starve to death. As an Eagle Scout, surviving like that wouldn't be but so hard, especially if I've got the gun(s) and can hunt.
1) Make home/neighborhood into fort:
Most people always assume it is best to just lock yourself up and have it be every man for themselves, but I think if I had the choice, I would try to get my 3 neighboring houses to remove the fences between our back yards and use thoses to fortify the defenses. This giving us more room to possibly grow food, living space, and more fighting room if it came down to it. Standard home defense building would apply. barring/covering windows with wood, scheduled night watches, food rationing/water/ammo etc.
2) Steal/join one of the many boats/yachts that are at our large ass lake and try to survive using gorilla tactics on short period land runs. The only few concerns is food supplys, water-logged zombies, and if the zombie outbreak also tainted fish/water so it would take that source of food out.
3) Lastly the other option is to just try to retreat to a locally ran/government controlled save spot and hope they can control large amounts of zombies and people.
There is Fort Hood, just 3 hours down I-35. If you don't mind going a little further then there's also the CDC facility on the south side of San Antonio which is a pretty tempting destination just cause I'm so curious as to what would be going on there. Right now the best option would be to try to make it to the water, (just a 30 minute drive to the docks downtown) and see if they're sending boats out to the off-shore oil platforms. I don't know how many other people would have the same idea though, and it's best to usually avoid crowds like the plague.
I figure I can survive the minor bacterial infections (I mean, I've never heard of anyone getting sick from swimming there, and people swim there a lot), the middle of the lake should keep me safe from the zombies, and I doubt too many people will think of that, so it'll avoid the crowds.
If the problem isn't solved by the time I run out of food, well, then, I'm fucked.
The loading bay (easy to barricade), the front doors (we have enough materials to cover up glass, also, one of the entrances (right side) has a set of stairs we could easily block, the other is a very long ramp but very small door.
Enough food, also had a generator. If help comes we can easily get on the roof.
Also my roomate here at school has a ton of guns (redneck) so really using one of his shotguns would probably work a little better.
We live at the top of a complex with one set of narrow stairs, so assuming they can get up them, picking them off or knocking them off the stairs wouldn't be too hard, as well as simply barricading the thing when needed...
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
First: I imagine you running for your life from a police officer into a horde of zombies.
Second: How are you going to keep your canoe from drifting to shore, and yourself from dying of exposure?
However this is assuming I am trapped at my current location. My friends and I have a much more detailed plan, but that is not something I would post online.
I planned to use an oar and an anchor of some sort to keep my canoe from drifting to shore. I mean, yeah, I could fall asleep for too long and get unlucky and drift to shore, but, y'know, them's the brakes. Shit happens, especially in a post-apocalyptic zombie world.
This also has the added benefit of the canoes being brightly colored, and the lake having an open view to the sky, so I'd easily be spotted by rescue aircraft.
If it's the former, the possible places could be fairly surprising. For example, the only problem that could befall one of the NYC boroughs after the virus is identified is food shortages, as the swift currents and easily defendable (and destroyable) bridges could make for perfect protection provided there aren't zombies inside. Similarly, Boston Could set up defensive perimeters at I-95 and I-495 easily (hell, let's see you walk across any Boston street even under normal conditions), with Cape Cod being a fallback (the canal gives it defensive capabilities, but the scarcity of bridges makes it impossible to get in to on a timely manner), and the Harbor Islands being a final refuge, with Forts Warren, Strong, and Andrews being the keeps (with Fort Independence being a more southern refuge, and we seem to have the remains of forts and other military installations all over the place, although Fort Washington is kind of pathetic).
If that fails, I'm hiding in The Castle in Brandeis. Fuckers will never get in there, and would get lost if we let them in (it has stairways that go nowhere).
Good and accurate info would be the most precious commodity in a crisis like this.
Personally, I don't see any good spots around the bay. There's a Costco near my appartment which will be sacked by hundreds of people and become a zombie concentration point in no time. Alcatraz requires a lot of people to properly set up and defend. San Quentin is probably the safest place in the bay, but if you're not already there, then you're not getting in.
No, I think I'd pack as much supplies and weapons as I could in the car and keep moving north.
However, we're not the top of the hill. A local church is. And that would probably attract attention.
Many different entrances, but it does have an easily defendable top floor (two staircases and an elevator are the only access). We also have roof access if anyone could grab some long arms before the shit hits the fan.
Speaking of long arms, we have a couple of resturants close by, a 7-11, as well as a grocery store and a CVS that stocks ammo (but no guns) within running distance. Given that this is a smaller town though (pop. approx 13,000) and a red county in a blue state, it shouldn't be a problem getting/acquiring firearms.
Plus, if we got really desperate, we could set up on our local bridge (seen during the beginning of XXX, yes the first one). On one side is again, several restaurants and a grocery store (close by but up a very steep hill), and it would easily defendable with only two entry points.
For the record, I live in Auburn, CA.
I'd like to think my experience playing tower defense would make me a valuable asset to any military operation to counter the zombies. The trick is to maze them through hazards! Sure I suppose you could just like, use a concrete wall but... that's no fun. Gigantic swinging scythe blades with enough force to cut a truck in half - that kind of thing. Anti zombie checkpoints could have something like that automated, with a big sign telling everyone to simply duck as they enter the checkpoint.
An example of how not to do it is 28 weeks later, I saw it recently and the absolutely horrid preparedness for a zombie outbreak when they knew one was possible astounds me. Have none of these people internet access? Any forum could point out the flaws in their plan.
See I would have just had everyone stay in their hotel rooms during a zombie outbreak with the door shut, one skilled and efficient team just go floor to floor executing a clean sweep of any zombies. Also, give everyone a gun. Zombies cannot use them and though firearms pose a risk to civilians, not as much as fucking zombies.
If there's seriously a confirmed outbreak first thing is to secure my home until the status of the outbreak can be determined. By secure I mean make it look like no one is there, destroy the entire stairs grab all of the supplies I need and pick up the atlas/literature while I wait out the horde. I'm in ohio so chances are the masses aren't going to be flowing toward me. Then it's just a waiting game until supplies hit a point where I have to move. Scavenging is a bit too dangerous since my neighborhood is a bit suburban but with rolling hills of farmland and plenty of daylight travel won't be too inconvenient. My biggest concern is meeting up with competent and trustworthy individuals.
Also we could consider designing and building a special anti zombie trap. Its really a big furnace but it plays the sound of terrified survivors on a loop. Zombies walk in, they don't walk out.
Have you ever seen a zombie movie before? The real danger is the other survivors. Living with a large concentration of hungry, well-armed, and extremely stressed group of New Yorkers? No thank you.
That might not be so bad if you manage to bring some camping supplies with you and keep real quiet. If any loud noises attract a zombie's attention then nothing's going to keep him from coming across that lake, (if they actually could just walk across the bottom) and bringing a lot of friends with him, (if their moans actually get other zombies to follow them).
Anyone talking about raiding a grocery store has to realize that those places are going to be dark as hell inside without electricity and probably a large gathering point for other frantic and paranoid survivors.
Camping in the wilderness might work if you live far enough away from any civilization so you won't have to deal with all the refugees streaming in from the city. If you've ever read World War Z think about those chapters where the family decides to head up north and
Zombie A falls over the razor wire. Zombie B walks over him. Zombie A continues crawling toward you. It doesn't matter it's really a pretty big waste. Not to mention enough zombies in one spot will tear it down anyway. It's a silly idea.
At least it's been a while since someone was beaten to death simply because he's foreign and might have something to do with organized crime.
STEAM
Given my personality and some dark truths about myself that I know, I'd probably wind up a Quisling.
Or a LaMOE.
Depending on how much advance warning I have I'd probably trek the 400 miles to my old college and bunker up in one of those huge concrete/steel dormitories. 13 floors that can be locked down by quadrant, greenhouse on the roof, plenty of rain, and cold as BALLS in the wintertime.
Since the college is powered by Grand Coulee and some associated substations the electricity would probably last a while (Life after People says a couple years, but we'll see...)
Honestly were something like World War Z to become a reality, I can't imagine the human race being exterminated, but something like the description of Yonkers from the book or the India/Pakistan situation is a very very likely scenario.
Who the hell am I kidding, I'd probably get trampled to death running for my life.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
Who knows, though, maybe I'd like being a zombie.
I think my location is pretty ideal, actually - I'd just need a few trusted friends to help me out setting everything up. There's a General Store within 60-second jogging distance, could grab some supplies there...I've got a steel-working studio in my basement, I could (first learn how to, and then actually) weld some close-range weapons...there's a hospice down the street, chock full of medical supplies...boats and kayaks and canoes along the shoreline, which can be reached within a minute tops from the street...some islands just off-shore, a few with houses on 'em...
Assuming these zombies aren't the water-friendly types:
I'd probably stock the hell up on supplies (food and medical, and some weaponry too), get out to one of those summer homes on one of the islands, and scout it out, make sure nobody is living there at the time...and wait it out through the winter. I can't imagine they'd be able to survive a Connecticut winter too well. Oh man, and fishing supplies. Lots of fishing supplies.
Worse-case scenario, if I was infected and still competent, I'd make myself into some kind of zombie killing machine and try to take out some of the horde with me. I'd at least feel I was doing something good with my situation with a suicide mission like that, rather than just waiting to die or waiting to turn into one of them.
Oh noes, people slowly shambling towards us. We're doomed. Dooooooooomed.
Instead, I'd probably farm hop for a while, raiding for food and keeping on my toes. The biggest problem I'd face probably wouldn't be the zombies, but actually other survivors fighting for food and space, so I'd probably need to be sufficiently armed - although, because it's England, I wouldn't have access to guns, or any long-range weapon. Thus, I'd pack the sharpest knives I can get a hand on, and maybe a BB gun if I could find one around. In terms of food, I'd pack as much canned food as I could reasonably handle although I'd have to bring a lot of salt (for preservation), and then simply plan on getting food as it comes. Of course, a basic first aid kit, folding shovel, and perhaps a small tent (if just for decoy purposes) would be packed.
I'd stay away from the roads and anywhere were people would congregate, if at all possible, and then make my way onto the continent after a couple of months, if things started turning hairy here.
However, I think that after seeing one friend/family member be killed and/or turn into a zombie, I would probably freak out or kill myself. Not very brave I know, but I'm not sure I'd know what to do if 90%+ of the population turned into a zombie.
I think I'd have at least one last day of fun stuff to go out on a bang with though.
I live in Tulsa, in a moderately populated area of it. First thing would be to take stock of the situation, find out how many zombies are around before I venture outside. Then I'd load up all the food I can. I own no guns, but that shouldn't matter too much. Next is to get in my car and attempt to get out of town. It's a Camry, but it should hold moderately well. If I'm low on gas I take my roommate's car or the alternate, hopefully he is with me. I'd call him if he isn't and see if I could arrange a pick up point.
Next I'd do the 30 minute drive to Claremore, where almost all of my immediate family that I give a crap about lives. Pick them up, stock up the minivans with what food, guns, and ammunition we have at hand. Most of my family possess firearms.
After that, I'd head out towards Tahlequah, which is where my uncle lives. House on the lake, not too secure, though. However he has guns and typically food. Also he has a boat if necessary. I'd park the car in a convenient, for us, location, and we'd get on the boat and ride it out for a week or two, using binoculars to observe what we can.
If they appear to be ragers like 28 days later, then those two weeks, maybe three if necessary, would be sufficient. Yeah, it takes about 28 days for people to starve to death. But they can't move worth a damn after 2-3 weeks.
Eternal shamblers, like, night of the living dead, you're kinda screwed, as only cold, inaccessible locations with long term resources would be useful. Best bet would be to try to return to the car or a car, stock up on mountaineering supplies at the house, and move on up to Canada. Maybe make our way to Alaska, I've got further family up there. Some of my family know how to hunt, and those of us that don't can pick it up pretty easily. Might be able to finish off our lives up there.
If they can swim, Run to the Hills, run for your liiiife.. Head north, find cabin/mountain hotel. What could possibly go wrong?
I live on a lake though, a fairly large one with a lot of smaller islands far from land. The archipelago on the sea outside the lake is also completely packed with small islands and very deep waters. Even if zombies could walk on the bottom of the sea there's no way they'd make it up on some of these islands as they're surrounded by immediate deep water and very high angle cliffs under water.