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MIXED MARTIAL ARTS (nsf pussies)

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    CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Wait so he hid in somebody's viola?
    It was disconcerting, to say the least.

    Callius on
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    2.) B. J. Penn. Fuck sakes. Again, UFC marketing. The man has one skill, and that is the ability to effectively gain and cut weight.

    Yeah, that and compete in MMA.

    I implied that to be a part of it. The guy is not an amazing fighter by the professional standard. But he's able to pick up and drop weight to beat up on the other not amazing fighters of his league.

    Don't get me wrong, though, cutting and gaining weight for fights is fucking hard. Actually, it's fucking horrible.

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Callius wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Wait so he hid in somebody's viola?
    It was disconcerting, to say the least.

    Certainly a noteworthy tale.

    Defender on
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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ban puns

    PiptheFair on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    pan buns

    Heh.

    Defender on
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    lostwordslostwords Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    2.) B. J. Penn. Fuck sakes. Again, UFC marketing. The man has one skill, and that is the ability to effectively gain and cut weight.

    Yeah, that and compete in MMA.

    I implied that to be a part of it. The guy is not an amazing fighter by the professional standard. But he's able to pick up and drop weight to beat up on the other not amazing fighters of his league.

    Don't get me wrong, though, cutting and gaining weight for fights is fucking hard. Actually, it's fucking horrible.

    wait, are we watching the same bj penn? the one who is a wizard in bjj and has a ridiculously strong chin and solid stand up and isn't afraid to fight dudes bigger than him? i mean, yeah, he's a douche, but he's a talented douche.

    also, umm, doesn't everyone cut weight in the ufc? i mean, anderson silva walks around at 220-230 pounds, i think, and he's the middleweight champion

    lostwords on
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I want to see Fedor fight. I wasn't into MMA when he was fighting so I've missed just about everything

    Zzulu on
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    lostwordslostwords Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Zzulu wrote: »
    I want to see Fedor fight. I wasn't into MMA when he was fighting so I've missed just about everything

    watch his fight against kevin randleman, that one is siiiick

    lostwords on
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    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Isn't BJ Penn a very decorated BJJ fighter? Like one of the first US black belts and won all kinds of tournaments?

    Yeah, that's my definition of a talentless fighter. What a pussy.

    Hunter on
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    lostwords wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    2.) B. J. Penn. Fuck sakes. Again, UFC marketing. The man has one skill, and that is the ability to effectively gain and cut weight.

    Yeah, that and compete in MMA.

    I implied that to be a part of it. The guy is not an amazing fighter by the professional standard. But he's able to pick up and drop weight to beat up on the other not amazing fighters of his league.

    Don't get me wrong, though, cutting and gaining weight for fights is fucking hard. Actually, it's fucking horrible.

    wait, are we watching the same bj penn? the one who is a wizard in bjj and has a ridiculously strong chin and solid stand up and isn't afraid to fight dudes bigger than him? i mean, yeah, he's a douche, but he's a talented douche.

    also, umm, doesn't everyone cut weight in the ufc? i mean, anderson silva walks around at 220-230 pounds, i think, and he's the middleweight champion

    Penn does have a great chin, but calling him a "wizard" at BJJ is a bit much. He scrambles for the back and snaps on the first choke you learn in BJJ.

    As for weight cutting, I don't know about everyone. Forrest Griffin walks at heavyweight but fights at LH, and the difference is significant. Keep in mind, though, there's a big difference between "I lose weight to fight" and "when I am in training and fighting shape I am blank pounds, but will gain or cut weight regardless to fight in a different division".

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    lostwords wrote: »
    Zzulu wrote: »
    I want to see Fedor fight. I wasn't into MMA when he was fighting so I've missed just about everything

    watch his fight against kevin randleman, that one is siiiick

    Yeah I saw some highlights of it. I thought Fedor fucking died when he was slammed head first into the ground like that

    then seconds later he submits his opponent. totally amazing

    Zzulu on
    t5qfc9.jpg
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Hunter wrote: »
    Isn't BJ Penn a very decorated BJJ fighter? Like one of the first US black belts and won all kinds of tournaments?

    Yeah, that's my definition of a talentless fighter. What a pussy.

    Give me a fucking break. I never once said he's a pussy or anything like that. Yes, he's done very well in BJJ tournies. But he wouldn't hold against at least three quarters of non-UFC fighters in any of the weight classes he fights in.

    Like I said. I'm not calling into question whether he's a good fighter. I'm calling into question the fact that White has convinced you he's world calibre in MMA because you've seen him fight in the UFC.

    EDIT - Three quarters really hyperbolic. But yeah, the contenders outside of UFC, he stands little chance.

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Zzulu wrote: »
    lostwords wrote: »
    Zzulu wrote: »
    I want to see Fedor fight. I wasn't into MMA when he was fighting so I've missed just about everything

    watch his fight against kevin randleman, that one is siiiick

    Yeah I saw some highlights of it. I thought Fedor fucking died when he was slammed head first into the ground like that

    then seconds later he submits his opponent. totally amazing

    Watch his fight with Fujita. Motherfuckers choke the dude out while he's still semi-conscious. His hand gets raised for the victory and he stumbles. Greatest fighting instinct.

    Really, watch any of his fights. I guarantee you'll be amazed. Also, for a fun little experiment, try throwing a punch as hard as he does at an opponent and still maintain the facial expression of shopping in a grocery store. Unreal.

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Callius wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Wait so he hid in somebody's viola?
    It was disconcerting, to say the least.

    Certainly a noteworthy tale.

    This exchange pleased me.

    Callius on
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Zzulu on
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    Zombies Tossed My Salad!Zombies Tossed My Salad! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I will never ever have to cut weight to fight. Hell, I have to gain weight

    Zombies Tossed My Salad! on
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Do you train? What weight are you at in good shape?

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    Zombies Tossed My Salad!Zombies Tossed My Salad! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I do train. And walking around I'm like 130-135

    Zombies Tossed My Salad! on
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Fuck. Yeah. How tall are you?

    You have a hard fucking journey ahead of you.

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    Zombies Tossed My Salad!Zombies Tossed My Salad! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I'm around 5'5" on a good day

    Zombies Tossed My Salad! on
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    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I'm around 5'5" on a good day

    Are you perhaps of Sayian or Kryptonian descent?

    Hunter on
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    That's not horrible, then. Working to an acceptable lightweight readiness is doable. Still really tough if you're walking at 130-5

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    You wouldn't like him when he's angry

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    Zombies Tossed My Salad!Zombies Tossed My Salad! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    That's not horrible, then. Working to an acceptable lightweight readiness is doable. Still really tough if you're walking at 130-5

    I'm shooting for atleast featherweight. I don't really know if I can make lightweight

    Zombies Tossed My Salad! on
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    Zombies Tossed My Salad!Zombies Tossed My Salad! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Holy shit.

    That Fedor thing is amazing

    Zombies Tossed My Salad! on
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yes that Fedor thing (robot, alien, whatever) is amazing.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Penn does have a great chin, but calling him a "wizard" at BJJ is a bit much. He scrambles for the back and snaps on the first choke you learn in BJJ.

    "This guy sucks at karate, he just blocks your strikes really hard and then uses the most basic punch or front kick to break your ribs."

    "This boxer sucks, he just slips and then hits you with a left upper and a right straight and knocks you out."

    "This muay thai guy blows, he just grabs your neck and knees your face into oblivion."

    Yeah, I'm not seeing how "he takes the backs of pro fighters and chokes them" indicates that he's not good. This isn't a kung fu movie, you win by using your basic techniques, not by being flashy.

    Defender on
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Penn also out striked and stuffed all the takedowns of Sean Sherk.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Penn does have a great chin, but calling him a "wizard" at BJJ is a bit much. He scrambles for the back and snaps on the first choke you learn in BJJ.

    "This guy sucks at karate, he just blocks your strikes really hard and then uses the most basic punch or front kick to break your ribs."

    "This boxer sucks, he just slips and then hits you with a left upper and a right straight and knocks you out."

    "This muay thai guy blows, he just grabs your neck and knees your face into oblivion."

    Yeah, I'm not seeing how "he takes the backs of pro fighters and chokes them" indicates that he's not good. This isn't a kung fu movie, you win by using your basic techniques, not by being flashy.

    Really, man? Really? Someone called him a BJJ wizard. I said that the statement was overdoing it. I say that it's overdoing it because we've only seen him do very basic BJJ maneuvers against other UFC fighters whose ground game is woefully nontechnical.

    I'm not looking for a kung fu movie, I'm looking to see a guy that is being heralded as god's gift to BJJ actually execute a technical display of it against another fighter in the light/welter/middle division that doesn't have his UFC thumb up his BJJ ass.

    Seriously, watch high ranked fighters in light/welter/middle divisions even in the relatively new DREAM and you'll see talent that would make B J Penn look like a fucking bum. Shinya Aoki, or hell, even Paulo Filho pre-rehab would outclass his ass ten ways from Sunday in BJJ. Hell, Eddie Alvarez would make short work of him.

    As another aside, I dislike a lot things about the Nevada ruleset the UFC uses, but I can't hold that against the UFC. It's either those rules, or professional MMA doesn't take place in America.

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    More fedor Fun. Basically a compilation of his fights. Ignore the first 2 min. Then it's 8min of him punching people out. Good people and sometimes...very large people.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8762652198751834650&hl=sv

    Good stuff in there. He got nearly knocked out, and then hazy-eyed he knocks the other guy out in turn. <3

    Seriously, I had no idea he was such a rapemachine

    [€dit2] and that fall he takes. How could he not injure his neck there? :D

    Zzulu on
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    TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Well a lot of people here in the states don't know much about him because he isn't in the UFC. I believe he said something like the contract they offered him was unreasonable which sounds accurate.

    TheStig on
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Naah, that's the Fujita fight I mentioned. He nails the liver kick, Fujita goes down, and Fedor puts on the rear naked before you can blink. Fuji is trying to tap before Fedor even picks him up and falls to his back with the choke, wrenching that shit hard. Fujita was out cold for awhile.

    Best part about watching that fight?

    Quinton Jackson as guest commentator. Fujita is out cold, mouth hanging open, showing some pretty nasty teeth.

    "Eh...eh... is that-.... is that 'is teeth?! Look at his teeth! Dude's gotta get his grill looked at! He's got money, he gotta pay someone to fix that grill!"

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    TheStig wrote: »
    Well a lot of people here in the states don't know much about him because he isn't in the UFC. I believe he said something like the contract they offered him was unreasonable which sounds accurate.

    Yeah, read my post at the end of page 8. I included some clauses from the contract he and some others were offered. The voiding and constant renewal things were really upsetting to him, but the "you can't fight in any other organization" thing killed it entirely. Dude takes part in two Sambo tournies a year.

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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    NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i0iZcLIrTQ&hl=sv

    Here's a fun Fedor fight. Somekind of freakshow where he's fighting a god damn giant. He nearly submits him while the guy is holding him in the air with one arm.

    Neli on
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    I have stared into Satan's asshole, and it fucking winked at me.
    [/size]
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Penn does have a great chin, but calling him a "wizard" at BJJ is a bit much. He scrambles for the back and snaps on the first choke you learn in BJJ.

    "This guy sucks at karate, he just blocks your strikes really hard and then uses the most basic punch or front kick to break your ribs."

    "This boxer sucks, he just slips and then hits you with a left upper and a right straight and knocks you out."

    "This muay thai guy blows, he just grabs your neck and knees your face into oblivion."

    Yeah, I'm not seeing how "he takes the backs of pro fighters and chokes them" indicates that he's not good. This isn't a kung fu movie, you win by using your basic techniques, not by being flashy.

    Really, man? Really? Someone called him a BJJ wizard. I said that the statement was overdoing it. I say that it's overdoing it because we've only seen him do very basic BJJ maneuvers against other UFC fighters whose ground game is woefully nontechnical.

    Executing "basic" techniques against fighters at that level requires a great deal of technical skill. Yeah, it's not a spinning hook kick to the head, but you have to have your shit down to do a move like that on that level of opponent. Good technical fighting does not just mean execution of complex techniques. It also means good application of basics. And I'd say that basics are more of what you use than the flashy stuff.

    Defender on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Kind of like in an RPG when you're fighting a boss but you've trained and you're way overlevelled so you can destroy him with just regular attacks.

    Javen on
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    TasteticleTasteticle Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Penn does have a great chin, but calling him a "wizard" at BJJ is a bit much. He scrambles for the back and snaps on the first choke you learn in BJJ.

    "This guy sucks at karate, he just blocks your strikes really hard and then uses the most basic punch or front kick to break your ribs."

    "This boxer sucks, he just slips and then hits you with a left upper and a right straight and knocks you out."

    "This muay thai guy blows, he just grabs your neck and knees your face into oblivion."

    Yeah, I'm not seeing how "he takes the backs of pro fighters and chokes them" indicates that he's not good. This isn't a kung fu movie, you win by using your basic techniques, not by being flashy.

    Really, man? Really? Someone called him a BJJ wizard. I said that the statement was overdoing it. I say that it's overdoing it because we've only seen him do very basic BJJ maneuvers against other UFC fighters whose ground game is woefully nontechnical.

    Executing "basic" techniques against fighters at that level requires a great deal of technical skill. Yeah, it's not a spinning hook kick to the head, but you have to have your shit down to do a move like that on that level of opponent. Good technical fighting does not just mean execution of complex techniques. It also means good application of basics. And I'd say that basics are more of what you use than the flashy stuff.

    I would call one of my old Senseis a wizard. He used some of the most basic techniques you could imagine but man could that mother fucker take you out.

    Tasteticle on

    Uh-oh I accidentally deleted my signature. Uh-oh!!
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    Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Javen wrote: »
    Kind of like in an RPG when you're fighting a boss but you've trained and you're way overlevelled so you can destroy him with just regular attacks.
    no.

    Randall_Flagg on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Tasteticle wrote: »
    I would call one of my old Senseis a wizard. He used some of the most basic techniques you could imagine but man could that mother fucker take you out.

    Yes. My instructor would punch you and you would not be able to keep fighting, on account of you got punched too good. He has been teaching for over 40 years and really knows his shit. That's mastery.

    Defender on
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    TheOneWhoStoodUpTheOneWhoStoodUp Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Penn does have a great chin, but calling him a "wizard" at BJJ is a bit much. He scrambles for the back and snaps on the first choke you learn in BJJ.

    "This guy sucks at karate, he just blocks your strikes really hard and then uses the most basic punch or front kick to break your ribs."

    "This boxer sucks, he just slips and then hits you with a left upper and a right straight and knocks you out."

    "This muay thai guy blows, he just grabs your neck and knees your face into oblivion."

    Yeah, I'm not seeing how "he takes the backs of pro fighters and chokes them" indicates that he's not good. This isn't a kung fu movie, you win by using your basic techniques, not by being flashy.

    Really, man? Really? Someone called him a BJJ wizard. I said that the statement was overdoing it. I say that it's overdoing it because we've only seen him do very basic BJJ maneuvers against other UFC fighters whose ground game is woefully nontechnical.

    Executing "basic" techniques against fighters at that level requires a great deal of technical skill. Yeah, it's not a spinning hook kick to the head, but you have to have your shit down to do a move like that on that level of opponent. Good technical fighting does not just mean execution of complex techniques. It also means good application of basics. And I'd say that basics are more of what you use than the flashy stuff.

    Everything you say is correct. Except none of it has anything to do with B J Penn. In fact, an experienced BJJ practitioner can spot quite a bit of room for improvement in B J's "application of basics", even against his thinly-stacked UFC competition.

    Let me reiterate. B J Penn was called exceptionally good at BJJ. Seeing him execute basic maneuvers against fighters whose ground game is nontechnical is not evidence that he is a master at BJJ. Someone with a month's worth of training in BJJ can look like a fucking brilliant subber if he's fighting someone with zero experience. This means that his level of skill surpasses his opponent, but it by no means shows him to be good in any other relative scale.

    B J is completely untested when it comes to the real talent of those weight classes. Because the real talent of those weight classes are simply not in UFC.

    It's cool, man. B J Penn is not an awful fighter by any stretch. But he is simply not the be all end all of BJJ in MMA. He may be so in the UFC for the lighter weights.

    TheOneWhoStoodUp on
    That's pretty far out, man!
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