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The Bitching About Bad Comics Thread

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    ZeromusZeromus Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    "Floppies need to die?" Seriously? How can you post in a comic book forum with this sentiment?

    Zeromus on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Would DC please stop BRINGING MY FUCKING FAVORITE CHARACTERS BACK TO LIFE IN A COMIC NO ONE IS READING AND THEN HAVING THEM RANDOMLY SHOW UP BACK IN THE GODDAMN PAST?!?!

    thank god Geebs created this thread, or I would be so freaking jailed right now.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    marvel needs to have fucking grown ups write their comic books

    enough with the no smoking but wolverine can gut people

    x-men wearing veils and shit simply to seem diverse (the illusion of being topical in today's world)

    and dc needs to stop hiring comic book writers whose sole experience is writing male power fantasy shit

    also: my biggest problem is people like you

    yeah, you

    stop giving kirkman money

    stop buying shit out of a sense of nostalgia or completionism

    read an actual fucking book to get perspective on shit outside of comics

    comic book creators and the people who own that intellectual property suck too

    kill aunt may

    let spider-man stop being a sheltered character

    kill somebody and have them fucking die

    except black adam

    bring him back

    and make him kill everyone

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
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    Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    fuck nineties cape comics artists that ain't jim lee

    stop giving loeb money

    stop giving loeb money

    don't buy independent comics when they suck

    don't buy digital comics until they come up with better distribution and images

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
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    Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    stop giving money to people depicting 15 year olds dressed like they're about to fuck 20 dudes individually

    like, they having a single file line or something

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
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    Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    i mean, do any of you remember gen13?

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Anjin-San wrote: »
    except black adam

    bring him back

    and make him kill everyone

    I think I love you.

    Crimson King on
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    TethTeth __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    I don't know what the big deal is about Wednesday Comics. I've given the first two issues a go and my conclusion is that it's an overpriced, average vanity project consisting of: a few good strips, many average strips, and a few that should never have been published they're so bad (Wonder Woman, good lord in heaven, I'm looking at you - you jumbled mess).

    Rant number two: Flash Rebirth is not a good comic. It's all the rave on the 'Net, but I've yet to meet a single real life person that hasn't dropped it after issue #2 (admittedly only seven to ten people, but still). The story is beyond blase and the art is atrocious, even by EVS standards (seriously, this hack is merely a step above Liefeld quality).

    Teth on
    #1
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    ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Anjin-San wrote: »
    fuck nineties cape comics artists that ain't jim lee

    also, fuck Jim Lee.

    he's added to my list.

    ManonvonSuperock on
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    Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    pfft

    that said, those are all little nitpicks on my part are largely because i don't think people should be getting paid to be so damn regressive

    Calamity Jane on
    twitter https://twitter.com/mperezwritesirl michelle patreon https://www.patreon.com/thatwronglove michelle's comic book from IMAGE COMICS you can order http://a.co/dn5YeUD
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Another thing that grinds my gears are bad editors. How do they let things like Ultimatum go through? Or Ultimates 3? And Tom Brevoort is the worst of them, who only seems to have his position based on seniority. He couldn't reign in Bendis on Disassembled, having to explain stuff on the internet, he completely fucked up Civil War with the scheduling problems because he couldn't give McNiven some more lead-in time in the beginning, not to mention that weak ending to the story. He always makes excuses for late artists and creators, as if he can't do a damn thing about it which is bullshit. And he's such a company man, to the point beyond kiss up (he's flip flopped his opinion on the Spider-Marriage to go in line with what Quesada wants).



    And another thing I don't like are creators getting every comic form the publisher they work for for free. How about this, to see how it feels to us schmucks who have to pay $4 an issue; the only free book you get is the one you worked on (editors don't get any free books). You can't really say "I get it" when people are upset about the price hikes when you get your stuff for free, some of which is decompressed with bad stories.


    And Steve Wacker, quit trying to be so funny and quirky in interviews and just make ASM actually coherent from writer to writer. Or what, are you gonna leave Marvel halfway through your job like you did at DC (what, what, I said it, what)?

    TexiKen on
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    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Howard Chaykin makes me furious. His art is atrocious enough that it would be terrible on its own, but I used like like American Flagg, man.

    Howard Chaykin is the sole reason I quit reading Punisher War Journal.
    Likewise. Also Wolverine.

    Wildcat on
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    RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Man, fuck you Josh Hood. Your art on Green Goblin was terrible after the joy that McDaniels brought to it.


    We can complain about things a decade old, right?

    Ringo on
    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    TexiKen wrote: »
    And another thing I don't like are creators getting every comic form the publisher they work for for free. How about this, to see how it feels to us schmucks who have to pay $4 an issue; the only free book you get is the one you worked on (editors don't get any free books). You can't really say "I get it" when people are upset about the price hikes when you get your stuff for free, some of which is decompressed with bad stories.

    Marvel employees actually don't get comp copies anymore. I'm not sure about DC though.

    Munch on
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Anjin-San wrote: »
    fuck nineties cape comics artists that ain't jim lee

    Anjin, I respect you and I agree with most of what you said. But fuck Jim Lee.


    Also, fuck Joss Whedon. He's so fucking overrated it hurts to read anyone praising him anymore.

    Crimsondude on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Can anyone who is actually reading Legion of the Three Worlds tell me if Bart and Conner actually go back in time, or do they just randomly show up there whenever Johns fucking feels like it?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
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    DrakeonDrakeon Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Can anyone who is actually reading Legion of the Three Worlds tell me if Bart and Conner actually go back in time, or do they just randomly show up there whenever Johns fucking feels like it?

    Pretty sure it's not finished yet. That or I missed an issue (or I forgot about it).

    Drakeon on
    PSN: Drakieon XBL: Drakieon Steam: TheDrakeon
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    CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    No, it's not done yet. So... I've read it, and I barely know what's going on. But by all accounts it seems that they do go back at the end of the story.

    Crimsondude on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    They'll probably go back to the present with Superman once the whole thing is done.

    Another thing I hate is the handling of hero's no-killing policies. Choosing not to kill is a valid moral choice, bu I think that they should be forced to confront the consequences of their choices once in a while. As things are now, whether or not to kill is treated as a personal choice rather than a decision that affects the very communities heroes defend, and I just don't think that's consistent with the fact that they fight crime primarily for the public's good rather than for personal reasons.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Obligatory anti-BND, pro-Spider-Marriage post.

    Wildcat on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Marriage is sort of invisible in comics, even in books where the main characters are married. Superman's left his wife to live on Krypton for an indefinite period of time, and that sudden change in their relationship hasn't been acknowledged at all.

    Reed and Sue's relationship isn't much better with the way it has only one setting, that being perpetual emotional neglect with brief respites at the end of arcs.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The Dibneys?

    Wildcat on
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    mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Wildcat wrote: »
    The Dibneys?

    Yeah, I mean look at the impact their marriage had on the Hawks.

    mattharvest on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Wildcat wrote: »
    The Dibnys?

    Yeah, I mean look at the impact their marriage had on the Hawks.

    I see what you did there.

    Munch on
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    The Ragin' CanadianThe Ragin' Canadian Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Oh man... I've been waiting for a thread like this. You have no idea. Especially as I work in a store, and go on these rants all the damn time:

    Glad to see people share my disdain for Howard Chaykin. Look, I liked American Flagg... but he absolutely killed Blade and Punisher: War Journal for me. Not to mention his women look atrocious.

    Steve Dillon, stay away from Wolverine. He's another artist who draws everyone with a square jaw, and his backgrounds in the first few issues of Wolverine: Origins were completely uninspired (but at least it wasn't copy and pasted like bloody Leifeld does). You don't have to draw all your women in the Image way, but at least make them look feminine.

    Can Byrne, Claremont, and Loeb please just retire? Pretty please?

    Can DC have a coherent universe at ANY point? I mean, I thought any time there was a 'crisis' things were all supposed to line up afterwards. But like it's been mentioned... why is it Bart Allen is running around in Flash Rebirth, but the Teen Titans have failed to address this, AND Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds has yet to finish?

    Fuck Jim Lee for not even putting out a second issue of WildCATS or actually finishing All-Star Batman & Robin. What were you doing, the convention circuit? Getting paid a bajillion dollars just to do covers? Fuck you Jim Lee, fuck you sooo hard.

    The Ragin' Canadian on
    " You can't say that, you're crazy!"

    " No, I'm eccentric... only poor people are called crazy."
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    On the topic of heroes killing villains and/or supporting the death penalty, that's one thing above all others that annoys me about Batman. I can understand perfectly well his stance on not wanting to kill villains in battle. Capturing them and turning them over to the police is a good thing to do.

    But there comes a point where repeatedly capturing the Joker becomes an irrational decision. Every time the Joker is not killed, Batman is basically signing the death sentence for a hundred innocent people (or more). I find it really hard to believe that Batman can keep a clear conscience and allow the Joker to live.


    On a different subject. . .
    Fuck Jim Lee for not even putting out a second issue of WildCATS or actually finishing All-Star Batman & Robin. What were you doing, the convention circuit? Getting paid a bajillion dollars just to do covers? Fuck you Jim Lee, fuck you sooo hard.

    Pretty sure the All-Star Batman and Robin delays are the fault of Frank Miller as much as it is Jim Lee's fault. Frank Miller seems to be more concerned with his hollywood movie making career these days instead of his comic career. Of course, there's a lot more money to be had in the film industry so its not really surprising.

    And Jim Lee is the head of art direction for DCUO. All the character concepts, the look and feel of the game, and everything else artistic in this game is either made by Jim Lee or approved by Jim Lee. Making an MMO is a huge undertaking, and I'm sure he's got his work cut out for him with this project.

    Lucascraft on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I thought L3W was delayed because George Perez has some kind of hand problem.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I would now like to take this opportunity to bitch about something I will dub "side arcs." Or story arcs that are side stories that don't take place within the regular confines of their parent books, but are the primary story progression during that period of time.

    Example: Battle For the Cowl. Why the fuck did they waste my time with a 3 issue side arc when they could have just put these issues into the regular Batman and Detective Comics numbering system.

    Example 2: Captain America: Reborn. First they change the numbering system and have a celebratory issue #600 in which absolutely nothing happens. And now they're stuffing the regular Captain America issues with filler story, while the primary story arc is taking place in a side arc. I say fuck the filler story and just make Captain America: Reborn a part of the regular numbering system. It should be issues 601-606.

    Lucascraft on
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    ElrosstElrosst Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Just like the Ragin Canadian... I've been sooo looking forward to a thread like this.

    The art in Runaways, starting with the rock zombie arc (or whatever it was called, and dont get me started on that idiotic storyline). Barf. I guess they're trying to go for a younger demographic, but I had to stop buying it. Yuck.

    Elrosst on
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    FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Zeromus wrote: »
    "Floppies need to die?" Seriously? How can you post in a comic book forum with this sentiment?

    There are other ways of releasing comics besides floppies. Shonen Jump's anthology format comes to mind.

    FCD on
    Gridman! Baby DAN DAN! Baby DAN DAN!
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    BostonGanglerBostonGangler Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    They'll probably go back to the present with Superman once the whole thing is done.

    Another thing I hate is the handling of hero's no-killing policies. Choosing not to kill is a valid moral choice, bu I think that they should be forced to confront the consequences of their choices once in a while. As things are now, whether or not to kill is treated as a personal choice rather than a decision that affects the very communities heroes defend, and I just don't think that's consistent with the fact that they fight crime primarily for the public's good rather than for personal reasons.

    100% agree. Everytime Joker goes on a rampage and kills a few dozen people, Batman needs to acknowledge that they're dead because he chose not to put down the human equivalent of a rabid animal. If he still accepts his choice, then I can accept that, but to ignore such simple cause-and-effect is completely out of his character.

    EDIT: Just saw that Lucascraft made this same exact point a few posts back. Instead, I'll have to contribute my 2 cents by expanding the example to include Superman/Lex Luthor, Spider-man/Norman Osborn (Peter could have prevented the entirety of Dark Reign), etc.

    The problem, as I see it, is purely one of storytelling. While there's the whole moral 'purity' of it, there's also the conflicting needs to have a long-running villain and victorious hero. I was reading an explanation of the Punisher awhile back, which stated that he has few, if any, iconic villains, largely because nobody survives long enough to become iconic. He kills his enemies, and that's that. It forces the comic to step outside of traditional storytelling norms, and you know that must terrify a lot of writers.

    The only way that a villain can stick around and a hero can win is by having the hero choose not to kill the villain. To get around either of these tired and shallow conventions, comic storytelling has to evolve. Sometimes, the heroes have to not win, and that needs to be explored with more imagination, creativity, and care than went into Dark Reign and Final Crisis, which just don't work on a number of different levels.

    Ultimately, if a villain's going to stick around pretty much forever, it needs to stop being because the hero chooses not to kill him and start being because the hero can't kill him. Either that or the hero's going to have to make an informed and complete moral choice to accept the innocent lives that will be lost as a result.

    BostonGangler on
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    HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Teth wrote: »
    I don't know what the big deal is about Wednesday Comics. I've given the first two issues a go and my conclusion is that it's an overpriced, average vanity project consisting of: a few good strips, many average strips, and a few that should never have been published they're so bad (Wonder Woman, good lord in heaven, I'm looking at you - you jumbled mess).

    Rant number two: Flash Rebirth is not a good comic. It's all the rave on the 'Net, but I've yet to meet a single real life person that hasn't dropped it after issue #2 (admittedly only seven to ten people, but still). The story is beyond blase and the art is atrocious, even by EVS standards (seriously, this hack is merely a step above Liefeld quality).

    Wednesday Comics:
    I think it depends on what type of comics you grew up with. The only time I read 'modern' comics as a kid was after getting a massive box containing most of the Death of Superman, Knightfall, and Emerald Twilight/Emerald Dawn stuff for Chrismas when I was 6 or 7. Beyond that, my parents only got me comics from the antiques shops they loved to go to so much, which meant I read a lot of Marvel stuff from the late-70s early-80s. Beyond that, most of my other early exposure was from old promotional reprints and the actual Sunday comics. So Wednesday Comics is a huge matter of nostalgia to me (even the smell of the ink and the pages does something), but beyond that it's also a return to a type of comic I love that doesn't neccessarily work anymore in today's world. Beyond that, there are also almost no ads in the book (I think only one). And beyond Wonder Woman (which was a bit better in Issue 2) and Superman, there isn't a single other strip that I dislike.

    Flash: Rebirth:
    Yeah, I felt the exact same way about the first two issues. Issue 3 was actually much better, and the start of something bigger for sure. It was a total turn-around for the series.

    HadjiQuest on
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    ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    FCD wrote: »
    Zeromus wrote: »
    "Floppies need to die?" Seriously? How can you post in a comic book forum with this sentiment?

    There are other ways of releasing comics besides floppies. Shonen Jump's anthology format comes to mind.

    I don't care for the shonen jump/anthology approach, but I'm also equally against floppies. I don't like the serial format, the high cost, the difficulty in storage, the saddlestitch binding method, the quantity-over-quality approach, etc.

    I understand that some people need their monthly soap opera fix (dammit sonny, my stories is on!), but I prefer buying full, coherent stories -and I'm sure if the development was targeted specifically toward that, then the quality would jump drastically.

    And I absolutely hate it when I buy a trade and every 20 pages they tell me in-story what's been happening for the last 20-80 pages. Fucking Trials of Shazam did that shit.

    ManonvonSuperock on
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    The Ragin' CanadianThe Ragin' Canadian Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    And Jim Lee is the head of art direction for DCUO. All the character concepts, the look and feel of the game, and everything else artistic in this game is either made by Jim Lee or approved by Jim Lee. Making an MMO is a huge undertaking, and I'm sure he's got his work cut out for him with this project.
    Oh, I can agree that is a very big project. He's also the EIC for the Wildstorm branch, if I remember correctly....

    BUT

    This shit's being going on before he was named the director for DCUO. Case in point, the WildCATS relaunch. 1 issue, in 2 years, when it was supposed to be bi-monthly. That's Kevin Smith territory right there (I'm not even going to get into Kevin Smith, that's an essay).

    And I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiment with the 'sub-arcs' thing. BFTC was a waste of everyone's time, especially considering:

    A - We all knew Dick was becoming Batman.
    B - The backlash from having Jason Todd be Batman would kill any of the major bat titles.
    C - There was no real point to having the story outside of the regular confines of Detective & Batman except in an attempt to sell extra issues.
    D - We all knew Dick was becoming Batman.
    E - They have no problem with telling a story from multiple points of view within the same book. See: 52, Countdown etc...

    You can also apply this to Ultimate War, Amazons Attack (although I'd rather fail to acknowledge it's existence), and World War III. Albeit, I don't mind a 1-shot to begin the arc, as was the case with Utopia.

    The Ragin' Canadian on
    " You can't say that, you're crazy!"

    " No, I'm eccentric... only poor people are called crazy."
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    KidDorkKidDork Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Why oh the fuck why can't Marvel get ASM right? How hard is it to actually tell a story that merits being picked up three times a month?

    Oh wait--maybe having ASM out that much doesn't work? Maybe it should just come out monthly, with one committed writer and artist, and an editor that has a plan that goes beyond the next four months? I know, it's the meth talking.

    KidDork on
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    FaynorFaynor Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Here's one.

    Restarting series at number 1 just to get a sales push, or even more confusingly doing shoddy math to get your books up to the 600s.

    Faynor on
    do you wanna see me eat a hotdog
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    crimsondude I can never hate you again

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    also Blackest Night is the worst thing

    The Lovely Bastard on
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    Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    RE: Batman

    The thing about Batman is that he's incapable of directly killing someone on account of he's completely mental. I bet if you saw your parents brutally murdered in front of you you'd be a bit put off the whole 'murdering people' thing.

    Superman, on the other hand, should just throw a bullet at the Joker from space.

    Also fuck Australian comic books prices.

    Crimson King on
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    HayasaHayasa Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Also fuck Australian comic books prices.
    YESSSSSSS

    Hayasa on
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