I think the difficultly in breaking out of the "Chosen One" mold is due to the dominating presence of the monomyth pattern. It tends to shape all narratives like the force into having some sorta Messiah character. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth
The only game that's coming to mind right now that really emphasizes you are just a guy in the big bad's playground.
Another World - Run away cause everything is trying to eat/burn/drown/facemelt you!
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
NWN2 was Avellone trying to write a "Bioware" game, as opposed to a typical Avellone game. Somewhere he talks about it, and he did not like writing a Bioware game.
So that's part of the reason it's such an over-the-top Bioware plot line.
Of course, by the same author you have The Exile. Sure she's different and special, but in a bad way.
And the Nameless One, who was immortal and special but in a fucked up way.
next time i write a crappy plotline, it will be because i was trying to write an obsidian game, as opposed to a typical me game.
i'll happily take credit for my own mediocre plots. i don't need to take credit for chris avellone phoning in one of his unless he wants to thank bioware for actually coming up with the concept of the nameless one in the first place.
on topic, every major bioware game except mass effect uses some version of the messiah complex, as do both kotor2 and nwn2.
I think you're punching over your weight class here
Remark not understood. Could someone explain?
He is basically saying that takyris is biting off more than he can chew.
What about The Witcher? The Witcher rocks, not sure if it ends up having a Messiah plot though since I have yet to beat it. True, Geralt does have "special" powers as it were, but thats not really what the game is about.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Ironically, you are "the chosen one" in Fallout 2.
Only in the sense that you were just the baddest motherfucker in your village and they "chose" you to go out and kick ass until you got them a GECK. There really wasn't anything special about your character other then the trail of carnage that you tore across the wasteland.
NWN2 was Avellone trying to write a "Bioware" game, as opposed to a typical Avellone game. Somewhere he talks about it, and he did not like writing a Bioware game.
So that's part of the reason it's such an over-the-top Bioware plot line.
Of course, by the same author you have The Exile. Sure she's different and special, but in a bad way.
And the Nameless One, who was immortal and special but in a fucked up way.
next time i write a crappy plotline, it will be because i was trying to write an obsidian game, as opposed to a typical me game.
i'll happily take credit for my own mediocre plots. i don't need to take credit for chris avellone phoning in one of his unless he wants to thank bioware for actually coming up with the concept of the nameless one in the first place.
on topic, every major bioware game except mass effect uses some version of the messiah complex, as do both kotor2 and nwn2.
I think you're punching over your weight class here
Remark not understood. Could someone explain?
He is basically saying that takyris is biting off more than he can chew.
In this case, takyris is completely right. Saying that a mediocre story is the result of trying to copy someone else's style is a lame cop-out that doesn't excuse the fact that you wrote a mediocre story.
I think the idea is that even a 'mediocre' Avellone plot is a thousand times above what 90% of us (and most of the industry) could pull off. The guy has some serious historical credibility when it comes to game plot.
What I want is a game where everyone tells you "you are The Chosen One." Everyone. Without fail. Its like everyone's personal greeting for you.
Tales of the Abyss is not precisely this but it definitely does the same kind of fuckawesome thing with the Chosen One bit. You might have to push yourself for a while because it starts out rather slow and you will HATE the characters; just give it some time and it will turn into a fond, appreciative hatred.
Not sure how it compares to Symphonia mentioned above, as I've never played it; the only other games in the series I beat were Phantasia which has no chosenness and Vesperia which mostly plays it straight. In general, though, it's definitely a series for people who like stories that turn cliches on their heads. (And for people who like backtracking. A lot.)
On the general topic, I do get somewhat annoyed by the prophesied hero to save the world crap, unless it's subverted in a cool way, but I actually like a slightly different form of 'messiah' - someone who is able to save the universe or whatever not because they are Chosen By Destiny, but because they just happen to have the qualities necessary to do the job. I'm specifically thinking of Tina/Terra of FF6 here, though I'm sure there's plenty of other/better examples. No destiny, but a person who is different from other people in a way that just kind of happened (and in a way that doesn't make one groan at the author), and that difference lets them do the job that's needed. (In this case it's contacting another world rather than saving a world, you get the idea.)
From my memory, NWN2 is pretty much like this:
you happen to have a shard of the silver sword in you for some reason I forget and that's why you're hunted / have power / whatever
but it sounds from the OP like there's some destiny involved that I forgot.
Pokemon. You're just a regular kid going out with murder beasts trying to be the best at raising murder beasts. In the first game you're just trying to stop Team Rocket from stealing your murder beasts.
Tales of Symphonia does this ... kind of. Except that you're not the "Chosen One" to begin with, the other "Chosen One" isn't who he appears to be either, he doesn't has to die (but I think he can) and no one has ever heard of you.
Colette is most certainly a main character and the chosen one. So is Zelos. It doesn't quite fit this analogy as they are two seperate societies chosen ones because of the split world thing, but it is remarkably close.
Morrowind has a messiah plot, but I don't think anyone actually played the main plot thread.
I tried but you know 180 hours in I forgot what the hell I was supposed to be doing.
Everyone kept telling me I was some high and holy bullshit, but after the third delivery boy quest in a row, I said fuck it and went about working for the guilds.
I always enjoyed how Arcanum handled the whole "chosen one" bullshit. You are the reincarnation of a certain churches great saint, destined to defeat the big bad evil. Later on in the game you
meet said "dead" saint on a deserted island, proving that the whole reincarnation theory was simply the usual schtick that every religion likes to spoonfeed people with. The reaction from your follower, who incidently is a follower of said religion, is pretty priceless
Morrowind has a messiah plot, but I don't think anyone actually played the main plot thread.
I kind of liked Morrowind's take on it, in that (main quest spoilers)
you might not really be the chosen one after all, you might really just be a pawn that all of these different factions are using for their own devices. This becomes clearer once you meet all of the ghosts of the other people who tried to become the Nerevarine. Once you've done your thing and rid the world of evil, everyone falls over themselves to worship you, but before that, many people and factions whose support you need either manipulate you or just blow you off/don't care about you.
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
What I want is a game where everyone tells you "you are The Chosen One." Everyone. Without fail. Its like everyone's personal greeting for you.
Then, halfway through the game you find out some other shmuck is The Chosen One. People start to forget the player character. He's just some guy now. All the fame and glory are gone and people are maybe even a little bitter about it. However, the almighty "Chosen One" (the real one) ends up killing the big bad just like he was chosen to do, leaving the player to rot in loneliness, trying to make sense of their place in the world as just some chump.
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Someone else posted a picture from it earlier in the thread :P
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
I'm not on my own computer and apparently images are blocked
It is the first thing I thought of when i saw this thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth
The only game that's coming to mind right now that really emphasizes you are just a guy in the big bad's playground.
Another World - Run away cause everything is trying to eat/burn/drown/facemelt you!
He is basically saying that takyris is biting off more than he can chew.
What about The Witcher? The Witcher rocks, not sure if it ends up having a Messiah plot though since I have yet to beat it. True, Geralt does have "special" powers as it were, but thats not really what the game is about.
Only in the sense that you were just the baddest motherfucker in your village and they "chose" you to go out and kick ass until you got them a GECK. There really wasn't anything special about your character other then the trail of carnage that you tore across the wasteland.
In this case, takyris is completely right. Saying that a mediocre story is the result of trying to copy someone else's style is a lame cop-out that doesn't excuse the fact that you wrote a mediocre story.
Tales of the Abyss is not precisely this but it definitely does the same kind of fuckawesome thing with the Chosen One bit. You might have to push yourself for a while because it starts out rather slow and you will HATE the characters; just give it some time and it will turn into a fond, appreciative hatred.
Not sure how it compares to Symphonia mentioned above, as I've never played it; the only other games in the series I beat were Phantasia which has no chosenness and Vesperia which mostly plays it straight. In general, though, it's definitely a series for people who like stories that turn cliches on their heads. (And for people who like backtracking. A lot.)
On the general topic, I do get somewhat annoyed by the prophesied hero to save the world crap, unless it's subverted in a cool way, but I actually like a slightly different form of 'messiah' - someone who is able to save the universe or whatever not because they are Chosen By Destiny, but because they just happen to have the qualities necessary to do the job. I'm specifically thinking of Tina/Terra of FF6 here, though I'm sure there's plenty of other/better examples. No destiny, but a person who is different from other people in a way that just kind of happened (and in a way that doesn't make one groan at the author), and that difference lets them do the job that's needed. (In this case it's contacting another world rather than saving a world, you get the idea.)
From my memory, NWN2 is pretty much like this:
Colette is most certainly a main character and the chosen one. So is Zelos. It doesn't quite fit this analogy as they are two seperate societies chosen ones because of the split world thing, but it is remarkably close.
Everyone kept telling me I was some high and holy bullshit, but after the third delivery boy quest in a row, I said fuck it and went about working for the guilds.
Life of Brian the video game?
WoW? Minus the not being chosen one eventually part.
I kind of liked Morrowind's take on it, in that (main quest spoilers)
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
I completely expected this thread to be about that game. And yes, I enjoyed it too.