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Digital SLR Help (p2 update)
Charles Kinbote
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Howdy all.
I'm a 19 year-old who is going to Europe/North Africa/West Asia for a year in a month or two. I've wanted a good camera for a long time and this seems like the perfect time to get one - all my friends are photographers, I've picked a little up myself, and I want to start giving photography a shot.
So, I want a digital SLR camera and, big surprise, I want it cheap. I know that they get really expensive, but it seems like with a bit of use you can pick one up for $200-300. Now I don't know my way around these cameras so I'm not going to presume anything - at that price, are those just bad? Are they beat-up? Is there some lower limit on prices I should keep my eyes on?
I know getting a camera this cheap is hard, but I'm a new photographer - I don't need bells and whistles. I just want a good, solid DSLR for the trip and for learning to take pictures.
Thanks!
I'm a 19 year-old who is going to Europe/North Africa/West Asia for a year in a month or two. I've wanted a good camera for a long time and this seems like the perfect time to get one - all my friends are photographers, I've picked a little up myself, and I want to start giving photography a shot.
So, I want a digital SLR camera and, big surprise, I want it cheap. I know that they get really expensive, but it seems like with a bit of use you can pick one up for $200-300. Now I don't know my way around these cameras so I'm not going to presume anything - at that price, are those just bad? Are they beat-up? Is there some lower limit on prices I should keep my eyes on?
I know getting a camera this cheap is hard, but I'm a new photographer - I don't need bells and whistles. I just want a good, solid DSLR for the trip and for learning to take pictures.
Thanks!
Charles Kinbote on
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The thing is, I just bought a lens for my DSLR a while ago for $400, and that was kind of cheap for that kind of thing. So my guess is that for $200-300 the best you can get is a point and shoot. I do hear the powershot or the offerings from other cameras in that pricing rang aren't bad though
edit: but again, take my words with a grain of salt, I am still new to this myself. All I know is that photography can get very expensive, very fast.
edit edit: Also, while a really good camera is nice and can make lots of things look pretty, you can take good pictures with just about anything if you practice long enough and have the eye for it.
You can find a really nice point and shoot for 300, though.
Now if you're at all okay with using actual film, you might have better luck.
Really part of an SLR is the is the manual adjustments manufacturer's place their controls in different spots so I would probably check some out at a best buy or nearest camera store and see which setup is more comfortable for you.
With your price pont you'll probably have to buy an older used consumer entry model such as the nikon d50. I doubt you're going to find a dslr for $200 so expect to pay around $300 if you shop around places like craigslist, even then it will take a lot of luck to find one and it probably won't include the accessories, such as an SD/compact flash card. If you are willing to pay an extra hundred it will probably make your search much easier.
As everyone else said you can buy a really nice point and shoot with your budget.
This one, here, for example, I took with a professional point and shoot.
A DSLR gives you two main advantages. The first, as someone already pointed out, is the use of manual options. The second is that you can use different lenses. Macro-telephoto, prime, portrait, wide angle. Each of those lenses serves a different purpose, and each costs a pretty penny. (A good prime lens costs $100 while a cheap macro-telephoto runs $250. Good telephotos can cost as much as BMWs.) They're a lot of fun, I have one now and love it dearly - but I spent over $1,000 getting the right equipment.
For your price range, you're either looking at a stellar point and shoot or a really, really terrible DSLR. With cameras, you get what you pay for. Unless you PERSONALLY know someone selling a DSLR and is giving you a good deal because they're being kind, I would be very leery of a $300 DSLR. There is bound to be something wrong with it, and the last place you want to find that out is at the top of the Eifel Tower.
In terms of professional point and shoots, you can't go wrong with this guy right here. That 20x optical zoom with image stabilization is key. A lens that can zoom that far for a DSLR costs thousands, and the image quality will only be slightly better.
This is another great professional point and shoot. High megapixle, high resolution (and only $225!)
Nikon or Canon are the way to go. They're the cream of the crop. Don't be suckered into buying a DSLR by a crappy company, because the only parts you can get for it will have to come direct from the crappy company (and at a horribly inflated price. If they're the only one making them, they can charge top dollar.)
Sigma - for example - makes parts for Canon, Nikon, and Sony cameras at a fraction of the cost.
From an investment standpoint - a DSLR is a bad call at your price range. You MIGHT be able to find one, but how long will it last? Will it stop working at a crucial moment? For the same price, you can get a brand new, top of the line point and shoot that will live forever and do what you need it to. And best of all, you'll still be able to take pictures like these! (Interlaken, Switzerland)
I don't want a point and shoot, but thank you. Yes, I am accustomed to dealing with changing aperture and shutter speed and all that - that's why I want a DSLR. This isn't just about taking pictures for Europe, I would like to get into photography too.
Ignore what I said, because a lot of people seem to be getting hung up on it. Let's say that I want a portable DSLR that's good for beginners and is definitely on the cheap side. I don't need it to be new, I don't need liveview or amazing dust control or any of that, I just need it to be dependable and to not limit my options down the line.
Just kidding.
Anything by Canon, Nikon, or Sony will do you fine.
That key bit is the only reason I wouldn't recommend a Nikon D40. I love the thing, it's lightweight, has all the features I need, and was an inexpensive entry point into the world of DSLRs, but it doesn't have a motor in the body, and so it depends on you buying their DX line of lenses if you want the autofocus to work.
I picked one up on eBay from a private seller. Got a Rebel XTi, two lenses, the rest of the original package contents of the camera, plus some extra goodies for $550, including shipping.
I highly recommend checking out eBay for the best deals, as you'll often find private owners that are selling good stuff that they just don't want anymore, so they price it to move. They also often include the extras that they bought themselves and throw in with the purchase, so that's always nice.
If it's cosmetic damage, it's not a big deal. Personally I would avoid cameras with scratches or cracks on the viewfinder, digital display, lens (of course!), flash (if you intend to use the built-in flash), etc. And just make sure that there are no missing knobs and whatnot. When I was shopping for my camera, I didn't see many that had damage at all - I think most people have more personal pride than that, and don't want their precious eBay rep to suffer for selling crappy stuff.
Two Camera
so there are a couple Rebel XTs. I don't know anything about lenses, so I can't speak to the kind that those come with. Ideally I would be doing landscapes and portraits, but I understand those are very different lenses so I dunno. Anything wrong with those two? Any that are better?
Yeah, that's another thing: I recommend avoiding the infamous eBay stores. Personally, I don't trust them. I think you'd be better off buying from a private seller that gave your prospective camera plenty of TLC while they owned it and now they're just ready to send it on its way.
I'm researching them in between posts
What's your absolute maximum price?
So I might maybe be able to get $400 or $500, but I will definitely need some good $200 or $300 ones to show that I am taking it seriously and am not trying to get everything I can out of them. If I had some good lowballs I could say "look, here are some that I found, but they have some problems which are A, B and C, and for a hundred more dollars those problems go away." If I come back to their offer with "I know we were talking about $300 but I found ten cameras at $600 each" I would look like an asshole.
Kinda hard to make lens recommendations when we don't know what body your going to get. Are you set on the XT? If you are I would ask in the photo thread in the artist's corner they should be able to point you in the right direction, I personally don't know much about Canon lenses.
If you buy the body separate I would recommend getting any 50mm f/1.8 lens, they usually cost around $100, and they're really good portrait lenses and I've gotten good landscape shots out of mine, the only negative is you have to do a lot of moving to line up a shot.
Here's the photo thread http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=95705
$250: comes with camera bag!
$300: comes with camera bag and a 4gb memory card and other goodies!
Those are auctions only, so there's no "Buy it Now" option. You'll have to stay on your toes if you want them. But they're from private sellers, they look nice, and you've got a bit of time to act on either. I'm looking through some more, but those seem the most promising.
Ah, I wasn't paying attention to feedback. Good point.
Oh, I saw your post in the photo thread, so just assume I posted this there as well.
Ryan M Long Photography
Buy my Prints!
I've bought some used gear from them and been very happy with both the product and the customer service, currently I'm toying with the idea of buying more film stuff and they are always my first stop.
search for canon digital --> camera outfits if you want the whole package
or you can purchase bodies, lenses, accessories separately depending on what exactly you want
edit: for example
edit^2: you might have more luck in your price range looking at Nikon D40/60 gear
I'm probably missing something, though.
Keep in mind the d40 (and the d60 i think) does not have the AF motor located inside in the body and rather it is in the lens, so its going to reduce lens compatibility and probably increase cost, it's nice when you upgrade bodies to carry over your lenses.
You can get stuff on ebay cheaper, i looked at the outfits on KEH and I got my setup cheaper, though the rebel xt deal looks pretty decent.
having bought camera equipment from both places, KEH gives that additional peace of mind that you're not being screwed out of a large chunk of cash
Yeah, it looks pretty reasonable, although EX isn't too promising.
argh decisions
My roommate has a G9 and it is pretty good. The powershot line in general is pretty solid.
My budget is now around the $525 mark. Let's find me a camera.
How is something like this? That comes with a lens, right?
Why is this the same price? I understand it's a D70 instead of a D40, but how is that worth the 4 megapixel hit?
The D40x has no internal Autofocus motor while the D70 has, so if you go D40x your lenses all have to have AF or you'll need to manually focus (if you have no lenses and want to buy all new then this matters little as you have no existing lens investment you're trying to leverage, though being able to use more lens types that have all the features you require does give you more options when buying used). The D40x, being 3 years younger, likely has more recent processing logic.
This guy went into some detail about practical shooting differences between the D40x and d70.
If you're only going to have the one lens, looking just at the numbers I might go with the 18-70 as it looks to give you an extra half stop on the long end. Though I've not shot with any Nikkor glass so I couldn't tell you which piece was better.
FWIW I have a 5-6 year old Canon 10D and am holding out for a camera with a 1.3x crop or full frame sensor.
Skip the D40x. It's a D40 with more pixels crammed onto the sensor and so terrible high ISO performance. It's actually an inferior camera to the D40, which itself is inferior to every other DSLR Nikon makes because they gimped it by taking out its AF motor, rendering a huge portion of the Nikon lens lineup near useless (manual focus only).
The D70 is a nice camera. A friend of mine shoots with one, and he couldn't be happier. Having AF on all his lenses is a huge plus. It's also up a step as far as camera lines go (D40-D60 is the consumer level, D50-D70 prosumer, D80-D90 high end prosumer, D100-D200-D300 professional crop bodies, D1-D2-D3 professional FF bodies) and the build quality, shutter rating and overall performance are a notch up. There are more on-body buttons as opposed to having settings buried within menus.
If I were you, I'd buy an old, metal, mechanical film body with a 50mm lens. Get one that only requires batteries for the meter but will still fire the shutter without them, like a Pentax MX, and a 50mm lens. Film can be bought everywhere, the camera will be 100x more rugged than any DSLR ever made and, if you damage it/lose it/get it stolen, you're out $100 instead of $500. Spend the difference on good film (travel photography on slide film is sexy) and getting the negatives scanned afterward.
Alternately, buy a Canon G9 or G10. Perfect travel body in that it's small but still shoots RAW (important), has excellent optics and is built like a tank. The Luminous Landscape put out an article where a fellow brought both a G9 and a gorgeous Leica system (several thousand bucks worth of camera and lenses) and shot essentially his entire trip with the G9 because it was so damn easy to bring everywhere.