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Racial Profiling or Rightful Investigation?

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    The Crowing OneThe Crowing One Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Had this been something they could not prove in my favor, I would absolutely be fired. No warnings provided. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying I think it's ridiculous I had to go through that. I am just saying there are many departments out there like mine who do not tolerate police officers like the many who make the news.

    What sort of department? Urban, rural, suburban? Large, small?

    The Crowing One on
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    Romero ZombieRomero Zombie Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I work for a department with about 100 sworn officers - primarily a suburban area with a lot of gang and drug problems.

    Romero Zombie on
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Related to the discussion on the (mis)use of disoredly conduct charges and/or 'respecting police automatically or else' (though in this case's partial defense, from the sounds of the article it sounds as if the person was intentionally wanting to cause a scene): linky
    A lawyer who moments earlier had been complaining to friends about police overreaction in the arrest of Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr., got a taste of the Gates treatment himself after loudly chanting "I hate the police" near a traffic stop in Northwest Washington, D.C.

    Pepin Tuma, 33, was walking with two friends along Washington's hip U Street corridor around midnight Saturday, complaining about how Gates had been rousted from his home for not showing a proper amount of deference to a cop. "We'd been talking about it all day," said Tuma. "It seems like police have a tendency to act overly aggressively when they're being pushed around," Tuma recalled saying.

    Then the group noticed five or six police cruisers surrounding two cars in an apparent traffic stop on the other side of the street. It seemed to Tuma that was more cops than necessary.

    "That's why I hate the police," Tuma said. He told the Huffington Post that in a loud sing-song voice, he then chanted, "I hate the police, I hate the police."

    One officer reacted strongly to Tuma's song. "Hey! Hey! Who do you think you're talking to?" Tuma recalled the officer shouting as he strode across an intersection to where Tuma was standing. "Who do you think you are to think you can talk to a police officer like that?" the police officer said, according to Luke Platzer, 30, one of Tuma's companions.


    Tuma said he responded, "It is not illegal to say I hate the police. It's not illegal to express my opinion walking down the street."

    According to Tuma and Platzer, the officer pushed Tuma against an electric utility box, continuing to ask who he thought he was and to say he couldn't talk to police like that.

    Within minutes, the officer had cuffed Tuma. The charge: disorderly conduct -- just like Gates, who was arrested after police responded to a report of a possible break-in at his home and Gates protested their ensuing behavior.

    D.C.'s disorderly conduct statute bars citizens from breaching the peace by doing anything "in such a manner as to annoy, disturb, interfere with, obstruct, or be offensive to others" or by shouting or making noise "either outside or inside a building during the nighttime to the annoyance or disturbance of any considerable number of persons."

    ...

    Tuma spent a few hours in a holding cell and was released early Sunday morning after forfeiting $35 in collateral to the police, he said. A "post and forfeit" is not an admission of guilt, and Tuma doesn't have a court date -- but the arrest will pop up if an employer does a background check.

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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Basically disorderly conduct is whatever they say it is?

    Malkor on
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    The Crowing OneThe Crowing One Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Malkor wrote: »
    Basically disorderly conduct is whatever they say it is?

    Yes and no. For the purposes of slapping cuffs on someone, yes. To make charges actually stick, no.

    The Crowing One on
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    SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Disorderly Conduct is like the new version of the drunk tank. You don't actually want to press charges against the people you put there, but you do want to get them out of your hair for like a day.

    Please note that this is not my opinion on how it should be used, just that it's how it seems like it IS being used.

    SageinaRage on
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Malkor wrote: »
    Basically disorderly conduct is whatever they say it is?

    Yes and no. For the purposes of slapping cuffs on someone, yes. To make charges actually stick, no.

    At least in the DC case above, it would seem that while charges aren't pressed, the arrest itself could still potentially fuck up one's life as it went on his record.

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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Aegis wrote: »
    Malkor wrote: »
    Basically disorderly conduct is whatever they say it is?

    Yes and no. For the purposes of slapping cuffs on someone, yes. To make charges actually stick, no.

    At least in the DC case above, it would seem that while charges aren't pressed, the arrest itself could still potentially fuck up one's life as it went on his record.

    This sounds like a job for the legislature!!

    Malkor on
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    rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Turn it around. If a Black cop was walking away and the white homeowner came out screaming vulgarities and demanding the officer's name and badge number and refused to quiet down after being asked by the officer.
    Do you think the white guy would get crap for being racist or the black guy? Can you imagine the black officer arresting the irrate white guy who is yelling at him, refusing to comply, being verbally offensive, outside?
    Would the black officer then be looked at for racial profiling in arresting the irrate home owner?

    rockmonkey on
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    CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    rockmonkey wrote: »
    Turn it around. If a Black cop was walking away and the white homeowner came out screaming vulgarities and demanding the officer's name and badge number and refused to quiet down after being asked by the officer.
    Do you think the white guy would get crap for being racist or the black guy? Can you imagine the black officer arresting the irrate white guy who is yelling at him, refusing to comply, being verbally offensive, outside?
    Would the black officer then be looked at for racial profiling in arresting the irrate home owner?

    Every time I watch Cops.

    Cabezone on
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    rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Cabezone wrote: »
    rockmonkey wrote: »
    Turn it around. If a Black cop was walking away and the white homeowner came out screaming vulgarities and demanding the officer's name and badge number and refused to quiet down after being asked by the officer.
    Do you think the white guy would get crap for being racist or the black guy? Can you imagine the black officer arresting the irrate white guy who is yelling at him, refusing to comply, being verbally offensive, outside?
    Would the black officer then be looked at for racial profiling in arresting the irrate home owner?

    Every time I watch Cops.

    heh. I like to think it would play out the same if the races were reversed, but I feel the white homeowner would be called racist.

    Note that I said "think" and "feel" just opinions and speculation.

    rockmonkey on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I would depend heavily on what exactly was yelled, and what the situation was.

    In this situation and yelling pig, etc? No. Just hates cops.

    Yelling jungle monkey? Yeah, racist.

    kildy on
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    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    rockmonkey wrote: »
    Turn it around. If a Black cop was walking away and the white homeowner came out screaming vulgarities and demanding the officer's name and badge number and refused to quiet down after being asked by the officer.
    Do you think the white guy would get crap for being racist or the black guy? Can you imagine the black officer arresting the irrate white guy who is yelling at him, refusing to comply, being verbally offensive, outside?
    Would the black officer then be looked at for racial profiling in arresting the irrate home owner?

    Vulgarities tend to be an almost automatic arrest in many areas.

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    rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I see a difference in severity between calling someone a jungle monkey and calling someone racist because they're a white cop and you're a black man.

    I see both as being racist though. I say it's racist to calling a white cop racist simply because you're a black man and he demanded to see some ID to prove you live there when they are investigating a call about a possible break in at that residence.

    On another issue:
    I don't know what is on a professors' Harvard ID but from my experience home addresses aren't something that are common place on College ID badges and another form of ID would be required. The cops weren't asking to prove who he was, they were asking to prove he lived there. I assume another form of ID was produced after that.

    One newscast I saw (take the validity as you will) said Gates got even more angry when the cop followed him into the other room when Gates finally went for his ID. That's procedure, surely. A possible robber and you'd let him go into the other room without watching him. He could do any number of things including: running, alerting his accomplices, getting a gun to shoot you.

    rockmonkey on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    rockmonkey wrote: »
    Turn it around. If a Black cop was walking away and the white homeowner came out screaming vulgarities and demanding the officer's name and badge number and refused to quiet down after being asked by the officer.
    Do you think the white guy would get crap for being racist or the black guy? Can you imagine the black officer arresting the irrate white guy who is yelling at him, refusing to comply, being verbally offensive, outside?
    Would the black officer then be looked at for racial profiling in arresting the irrate home owner?

    I heard Chris Matthews put out that hypothetical, with a black officer arresting Henry Kissinger. His opinion was that it would clearly be seen as the black cop having an attitude problem, which was surprising. I'd have thought he'd automatically side with the cop, considering he used to be one.

    BubbaT on
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    rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    rockmonkey wrote: »
    Turn it around. If a Black cop was walking away and the white homeowner came out screaming vulgarities and demanding the officer's name and badge number and refused to quiet down after being asked by the officer.
    Do you think the white guy would get crap for being racist or the black guy? Can you imagine the black officer arresting the irrate white guy who is yelling at him, refusing to comply, being verbally offensive, outside?
    Would the black officer then be looked at for racial profiling in arresting the irrate home owner?

    I heard Chris Matthews put out that hypothetical, with a black officer arresting Henry Kissinger. His opinion was that it would clearly be seen as the black cop having an attitude problem, which was surprising. I'd have thought he'd automatically side with the cop, considering he used to be one.

    interesting.

    I personally think nothing illegal was done on either side and both were being douchebags.

    edit: douchebags, not because of their race, but because one was a arrogant Harvard professor and the other an egotistical cop.

    rockmonkey on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Ok so someone from this guys own department calls gates a jungle monkey. And another lawyer is arrested for disorderly conduct. Well it looks like both of my fears have been put to rest.

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    DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Ok so someone from this guys own department calls gates a jungle monkey. And another lawyer is arrested for disorderly conduct. Well it looks like both of my fears have been put to rest.

    Boston and Cambridge are totally separate cities. Some would argue they are practically separate countries, too.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    DragonPup wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Ok so someone from this guys own department calls gates a jungle monkey. And another lawyer is arrested for disorderly conduct. Well it looks like both of my fears have been put to rest.

    Boston and Cambridge are totally separate cities. Some would argue they are practically separate countries, too.

    My bad I thought it was the same department.

    Preacher on
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    DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    It's a common mistake, actually.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    DragonPup wrote: »
    It's a common mistake, actually.

    Like arresting black people for non crimes?

    Preacher on
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    DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    It's a common mistake, actually.

    Like arresting black people for non crimes?

    Oh snap.

    Seriously, as a general guide, Cambridge tends to be left of Boston politically. It is referred to as the People's Republic of Cambridge for a reason. There's even a bar named after it.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    DragonPup wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    It's a common mistake, actually.

    Like arresting black people for non crimes?

    Oh snap.

    Seriously, as a general guide, Cambridge tends to be left of Boston politically. It is referred to as the People's Republic of Cambridge for a reason. There's even a bar named after it.

    I'd figure being in close proximity to Harvard would attract a certain political leaning. Harvard is at least nar cambridge right? I know nothing of your geography.

    Preacher on
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    HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    DragonPup wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    It's a common mistake, actually.

    Like arresting black people for non crimes?

    Oh snap.

    Seriously, as a general guide, Cambridge tends to be left of Boston politically. It is referred to as the People's Republic of Cambridge for a reason. There's even a bar named after it.

    Once again, the liberal nature of Cambridge does not equate to a liberal police force.

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    DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Preacher wrote: »

    I'd figure being in close proximity to Harvard would attract a certain political leaning. Harvard is at least nar cambridge right? I know nothing of your geography.

    Harvard University is right in the middle of Cambridge, as well as MIT.

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    gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    Interesting article regarding race is viewed or more like used in the U.S.


    http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2009/07/31/the-two-faces-of-condi-and-michelle/
    Now, it goes without saying that editorial cartoonists drive home their arguments using lines instead of words: caricature and exaggeration are the tools of the trade. And it's also not a particularly stunning revelation to say that some liberals cartoonists have no qualms resorting to overt displays of racism when it suits their ideological needs.

    Secretary Rice, who was at the time the most powerful African-American woman in the world (perhaps excluding Oprah), certainly bore the brunt of such treatment; she was called a "house nigger" in a cartoon by Ted Rall; Garry Trudeau had President Bush give her the nickname "Brown Sugar" in one of his Doonesbury strips; and syndicated cartoonist Pat Oliphant walked away with the booby prize for this:


    tedrallevil.gif

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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Heartlash wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    It's a common mistake, actually.

    Like arresting black people for non crimes?

    Oh snap.

    Seriously, as a general guide, Cambridge tends to be left of Boston politically. It is referred to as the People's Republic of Cambridge for a reason. There's even a bar named after it.

    Once again, the liberal nature of Cambridge does not equate to a liberal police force.

    Hachface on
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    gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Heartlash wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    It's a common mistake, actually.

    Like arresting black people for non crimes?

    Oh snap.

    Seriously, as a general guide, Cambridge tends to be left of Boston politically. It is referred to as the People's Republic of Cambridge for a reason. There's even a bar named after it.

    Once again, the liberal nature of Cambridge does not equate to a liberal police force.

    Is there such a thing as a liberal police force????? Or are we talking about the fashion police?

    gigEsmalls on
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