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Racial Profiling or Rightful Investigation?

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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2009
    Do they generally send that many police officers to a 911 call? I honestly don't know, but it looks like a lot of fucking cops there for something that wouldn't warrant backup.

    When it's slow, yeah. So that would be all the time in Cambridge, I'm guessing.

    Doc on
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    ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Do they generally send that many police officers to a 911 call? I honestly don't know, but it looks like a lot of fucking cops there for something that wouldn't warrant backup.

    Four officers on a report of two people allegedly breaking into a house isn't terribly uncommon, I wouldn't think.

    Chanus on
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    tallgeezetallgeeze Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Do they generally send that many police officers to a 911 call? I honestly don't know, but it looks like a lot of fucking cops there for something that wouldn't warrant backup.

    I think campus police was called in addition to the city police.

    tallgeeze on
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    kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yall wrote: »
    citizen059 wrote: »
    Tach wrote: »
    Would all that frustrate you a bit, or would you be all "oh, hey, sorry officer. Here's my ID and everything. Sorry to be any trouble."

    I'd be frustrated, sure.

    But I still wouldn't yell at the cops. All conversation with a police officer is a calm, professional "Yes sir/No sir". No exceptions. That's just me though.

    It shouldn't have to be that way though, that's the point.

    Personally, I never give any lip to cops because I know the consequences can be bad. That doesn't mean they should infringe upon my legal rights if I'm a dick.

    That being said - it's not racial profiling.

    This is the most alarming thread in the thread - being an asshole to a cop isn't a crime, and gives them no right to sanction you. If we want to protect our civil liberties at the ground level, we do it by limiting the way cops can push us around.

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    MuncieMuncie Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I went through a phase where I learned to pick locks and got pretty good at it. I thought it'd be useful at some point. When you lock yourself out of your house and the keys to the car where you leave your lock picks are in your house, it's not very useful.

    Unless you have one of those old ass locks where you can destroy a credit card opening the door. That's been useful a few times but I have pretty new locks. Shitty door jambs but good locks.

    It's a lot easier to kick in a door than it is to pick the lock. I learned that when I locked myself out of my apartment. You don't need to be Brock Lesner to break through a door. It's also quick. Shoulder into that door with enough conviction and you'll rip the deadbolt right through the wood. It'll split nice along a seam in the wood. Makes a lot of noise, especially if it pops off any decorative molding on the other side.

    If your neighbors are worth a shit they'll call the police, like mine did. Not many break-ins are followed up with gluing and screwing to fix the door, so the cops didn't really bother me except they made me feel like an idiot for not having a cell phone to call someone, didn't have a spare key somewhere, and ran in my goddamn door in the middle of the night because I had to get in now or buy new pants.

    Of course Tampa isn't Winnipeg. I would wager that the ratio of break-in to stuck door is a little higher here.

    Muncie on
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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I agree with all that, but from the description of the events in the article and police report, I got the impression that the guys weren't trying to batter the door down or bash it it so much as the one guy was just leaning against it and pushing.

    And don't underestimate the number of B&Es we get up here. :P

    Grid System on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Someone reporting seeing two guys forcing the door to a home absolutely deserves police follow up. Honestly, no one can be legitimately contesting this right?

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    ChanusChanus Harbinger of the Spicy Rooster Apocalypse The Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I agree with all that, but from the description of the events in the article and police report, I got the impression that the guys weren't trying to batter the door down or bash it it so much as the one guy was just leaning against it and pushing.

    That occurred before the police arrived... you can't blame them for responding to the call, albeit one wrongfully placed by a neighbor (are you? I think I've lost track of the conversation).

    Chanus on
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    SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    Someone reporting seeing two guys forcing the door to a home absolutely deserves police follow up. Honestly, no one can be legitimately contesting this right?

    I don't see how anyone could be. But I've been surprised before.

    If I (or someone else) had to break into my house, I would be grateful a neighbor cared enough to call the police. I would just like the police that showed up to be reasonable, polite, and then get the fuck out when I show them my ID.

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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Chanus wrote: »
    I agree with all that, but from the description of the events in the article and police report, I got the impression that the guys weren't trying to batter the door down or bash it it so much as the one guy was just leaning against it and pushing.

    That occurred before the police arrived... you can't blame them for responding to the call, albeit one wrongfully placed by a neighbor (are you? I think I've lost track of the conversation).
    I don't know what the procedure is for the CPD with regards to 911 calls, but it's likely that they do have to respond. That being the case, I can hardly blame the officer for following the rules that bind him. If, however, the officer conducted a more thorough investigation than he would have if the suspects had not been black, then I would blame him for that. Of course, that takes us into the realm of speculation.

    Grid System on
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    DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Well, you're actually not allowed to cause a disturbance in your own home. Wicked loud party? Yeah there are many many ordinances and various other laws against that. I imagine standing on your front porch and yelling falls vaguely into that arena, at least enough that the cops weren't technically in the wrong by arresting the guy.

    Seems to me the professor was just severely lacking in some common sense in regards to this situation. As a result, he spent some time in the clink. *shrug* I'm not really offended by that.

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    Chake99Chake99 Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    Someone reporting seeing two guys forcing the door to a home absolutely deserves police follow up. Honestly, no one can be legitimately contesting this right?

    I think people are more criticizing the way the police handled the incident once they arrived to investigate.

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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2009
    Chake99 wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Someone reporting seeing two guys forcing the door to a home absolutely deserves police follow up. Honestly, no one can be legitimately contesting this right?

    I think people are more criticizing the way the police handled the incident once they had established that he was the owner of the house.

    Doc on
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    HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    As for being a part of a trend of racial profiling, this is Cambridge. This is the town in the state that voted for George McGovern that people semi-seriously call the People's Republic of Cambridge. The moderates are liberal Democrats. The conservatives are populist or progressive Democrats. The liberals... well they make D&D look like Fox News enthusiasts.

    Sorry to bring this post up again even though it was a few pages ago, but are you insinuating that the liberal nature of Boston implies that its police department is also liberal? I really REALLY don't know about that... I mean, I've heard plenty of racist comments in the 5 years I've lived in the area, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the sentiment is present in the police force as well.

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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Heartlash wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    As for being a part of a trend of racial profiling, this is Cambridge. This is the town in the state that voted for George McGovern that people semi-seriously call the People's Republic of Cambridge. The moderates are liberal Democrats. The conservatives are populist or progressive Democrats. The liberals... well they make D&D look like Fox News enthusiasts.

    Sorry to bring this post up again even though it was a few pages ago, but are you insinuating that the liberal nature of Boston implies that its police department is also liberal? I really REALLY don't know about that... I mean, I've heard plenty of racist comments in the 5 years I've lived in the area, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the sentiment is present in the police force as well.

    Boston PD doesn't have a sterling reputation race-wise. They're no LAPD or NYPD, but people haven't forgotten the Charles Stuart case any more than they've forgotten Rodney King or Abner Louima.

    As for Cambridge specifically, less than a year ago Harvard launched an investigation into its Campus Police unit over concerns about racial profiling.
    Harvard law professor Charles Ogletree said black students arrive on campus aiming for academic success but instead find themselves under suspicion.

    “I’ve been hosting, moderating, and mediating meetings between Harvard’s black students and university police for much of the last 20 years, and it always stems from an individual incident when African-Americans appear to be the subject of racial profiling by the police department,” Ogletree said Tuesday. “The problem is a persistent one, because there’s still this unfortunate assumption that equates the color of a person’s skin with involvement in criminality.”

    ...

    Alneada Biggers, president of the Association of Black Harvard Women, said the review shows Faust is aware of black students’ concerns about police.

    “It’s much needed,” Biggers said. “If you talk to any student in the black community, they’ll talk about being targeted.”

    http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N33/harvard.html

    This issue didn't just pop up out of the blue at Gates' house. In fact, Gates himself helped prompt the 2008 review
    Henry Louis Gates Jr., director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, said he has spoken with Faust about improving the racial climate and believes she takes the problem seriously.

    "We have to have zero tolerance," Gates said. "Any example of racism is one example too much, from the police or any other sector of Harvard University."

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/08/29/at_harvard_blacks_perceive_blatant_culture_of_prejudice/?p1

    BubbaT on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Chake99 wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Someone reporting seeing two guys forcing the door to a home absolutely deserves police follow up. Honestly, no one can be legitimately contesting this right?

    I think people are more criticizing the way the police handled the incident once they arrived to investigate.
    Almost. Grid seems to think because police looked for two black guys that had forced their way into a house after being told someone witnessed two black guys force their way into a house they were using racial profiling.

    Because using skin color as a visual descriptor is wrong. Apparently.

    Quid on
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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Oh good. Now that you, too, have resorted to making up facts, I can let things be.

    Grid System on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Oh good. Now that you, too, have resorted to making up facts, I can let things be.
    From the article:
    "two black males with backpacks on the porch," with one "wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."
    So when a person says they saw two black people look like they were trying to force entry, and the police look for two black guys that might have forced entry, how exactly is it racial profiling?

    Quid on
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    Burden of ProofBurden of Proof You three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on. Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Derrick wrote: »
    Well, you're actually not allowed to cause a disturbance in your own home. Wicked loud party? Yeah there are many many ordinances and various other laws against that. I imagine standing on your front porch and yelling falls vaguely into that arena, at least enough that the cops weren't technically in the wrong by arresting the guy.

    Seems to me the professor was just severely lacking in some common sense in regards to this situation. As a result, he spent some time in the clink. *shrug* I'm not really offended by that.

    I don't think you should be arrested for yelling at someone. Having a bad temper shouldn't be enough of a reason to throw someone in jail. Everything about that idea offends me.

    Burden of Proof on
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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    Oh good. Now that you, too, have resorted to making up facts, I can let things be.
    From the article:
    "two black males with backpacks on the porch," with one "wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."
    So when a person says they saw two black people look like they were trying to force entry, and the police look for two black guys that might have forced entry, how exactly is it racial profiling?
    Continuing to treat a black man as a suspect in a crime when there is no evidence that any crime has been committed (no alarm, no sounds of struggle or movement from within the home, no removal of any items from the home, etc.) and there is evidence that the man has a right to be in the home (using a key to unlock the back door, bringing items into the home) is prima facie racial profiling. The problem here is that racial profiling, as a phenomenon, is statistical, not personal, despite the significant personal impact it might have on its victims. Now, I've said this before, but I'll say it again: without comparative numbers we can't know how this incident fits within the overall pattern of law enforcement in the area. Maybe the data show that this incident would have played out more-or-less the same way regardless of the races of the people involved. I'm not willing to just assume that though, and I will assume the opposite because data from police reports across North America show that black people are more likely to be burdened with assumptions regarding the criminality of their lawful behaviour. Massachusetts is not free from this trend, and police forces throughout the state continue to resist practises that would bring it to the fore where it might be combated.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Ah, so you have no proof they were using racial profiling.

    Quid on
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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I'm not a mind-reader, no. But if I see a duck, I'm not going to assume it's a chicken until I get the DNA results back from the lab.

    Grid System on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Derrick wrote: »
    Well, you're actually not allowed to cause a disturbance in your own home. Wicked loud party? Yeah there are many many ordinances and various other laws against that. I imagine standing on your front porch and yelling falls vaguely into that arena, at least enough that the cops weren't technically in the wrong by arresting the guy.

    Seems to me the professor was just severely lacking in some common sense in regards to this situation. As a result, he spent some time in the clink. *shrug* I'm not really offended by that.

    I don't think you should be arrested for yelling at someone. Having a bad temper shouldn't be enough of a reason to throw someone in jail. Everything about that idea offends me.

    If you are yelling at someone and will not let something go and calm yourself down at one o'clock in the morning, you are causing a disturbance which is easily keeping the neighbors awake (or at least one, since they woke up to you hitting your shoulder against your door too). The police have every right to throw you in jail for doing so when you do not calm down and shut the fuck up.

    If he had a problem with the way the police treated him, he should have filed a complaint. Standing outside (or inside) screaming at that time is a public disturbance, and just makes you look unreasonable.

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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I have a right to demand an officer's name and badge number; I have the right to be rude or impolite to an officer; I have the right to refuse to answer a great deal of questions; and etc. These rights are, unfortunately, rarely enforced--when it comes down to he said, she said, then the boys in blue close ranks and it's almost impossible to pin their abuses on them; this phenomenon is only exacerbated by the tisk-tiskers on the sidelines who believe anything in the police report. And, again, unfortunately, police abuses are disproportionately targeted towards the poor and minorities.

    I am fucking boggled by the notion that this respected community figure had it coming to him. The man is 58--it's probably fair to guess that, over the course of his life, he's been subject to disparate treatment from the police. And I doubt this incident gives him any reason to color his glasses any differently. If I were him, I'd no doubt be confrontational about being subject, once again, to the aggressive and likely legally improper whims of petty authoritarians.

    MrMister on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Heartlash wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    As for being a part of a trend of racial profiling, this is Cambridge. This is the town in the state that voted for George McGovern that people semi-seriously call the People's Republic of Cambridge. The moderates are liberal Democrats. The conservatives are populist or progressive Democrats. The liberals... well they make D&D look like Fox News enthusiasts.

    Sorry to bring this post up again even though it was a few pages ago, but are you insinuating that the liberal nature of Boston implies that its police department is also liberal? I really REALLY don't know about that... I mean, I've heard plenty of racist comments in the 5 years I've lived in the area, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the sentiment is present in the police force as well.

    Boston PD doesn't have a sterling reputation race-wise. They're no LAPD or NYPD, but people haven't forgotten the Charles Stuart case any more than they've forgotten Rodney King or Abner Louima.

    As for Cambridge specifically, less than a year ago Harvard launched an investigation into its Campus Police unit over concerns about racial profiling.
    Harvard law professor Charles Ogletree said black students arrive on campus aiming for academic success but instead find themselves under suspicion.

    “I’ve been hosting, moderating, and mediating meetings between Harvard’s black students and university police for much of the last 20 years, and it always stems from an individual incident when African-Americans appear to be the subject of racial profiling by the police department,” Ogletree said Tuesday. “The problem is a persistent one, because there’s still this unfortunate assumption that equates the color of a person’s skin with involvement in criminality.”

    ...

    Alneada Biggers, president of the Association of Black Harvard Women, said the review shows Faust is aware of black students’ concerns about police.

    “It’s much needed,” Biggers said. “If you talk to any student in the black community, they’ll talk about being targeted.”

    http://tech.mit.edu/V128/N33/harvard.html

    This issue didn't just pop up out of the blue at Gates' house. In fact, Gates himself helped prompt the 2008 review
    Henry Louis Gates Jr., director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research, said he has spoken with Faust about improving the racial climate and believes she takes the problem seriously.

    "We have to have zero tolerance," Gates said. "Any example of racism is one example too much, from the police or any other sector of Harvard University."

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/08/29/at_harvard_blacks_perceive_blatant_culture_of_prejudice/?p1

    And who said this?
    We must examine the way we deploy law enforcement officers to fight crime. Black people are more often the victims of crime. We strongly support police efforts to prevent and reduce the prevalence of crime in our communities. The success of crime prevention programs in cities like Boston and San Diego illustrates that partnerships between communities and the police can achieve the dual goal of preserving and maintaining respect for communities of color and providing protection and policing.
    Gates, Ogeltree and a number of other AA leaders (at the time of Diallo's death).

    And the exact same people saying that this is an act of racial profiling - when it wasn't - isn't particularly strong evidence. African-American studies professors/students aren't as out there as radical feminists but there's a lot of "when all you have is a hammer."

    Also, Charles Stuart was the case of believing a white guy who said his wife got shot by a black guy, but never actually charging a black guy (the suspect was arrested for something else) for the crime. The media and ipublic's reaction was far more damning than the police's actions. Comparing that to sodomizing/murdering a black guy, beating a black guy almost to death, shooting a guy 41 times, etc seems a bit ridiculous.

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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    Well, you're actually not allowed to cause a disturbance in your own home. Wicked loud party? Yeah there are many many ordinances and various other laws against that. I imagine standing on your front porch and yelling falls vaguely into that arena, at least enough that the cops weren't technically in the wrong by arresting the guy.

    Seems to me the professor was just severely lacking in some common sense in regards to this situation. As a result, he spent some time in the clink. *shrug* I'm not really offended by that.

    I don't think you should be arrested for yelling at someone. Having a bad temper shouldn't be enough of a reason to throw someone in jail. Everything about that idea offends me.

    If you are yelling at someone and will not let something go and calm yourself down at one o'clock in the morning, you are causing a disturbance which is easily keeping the neighbors awake (or at least one, since they woke up to you hitting your shoulder against your door too). The police have every right to throw you in jail for doing so when you do not calm down and shut the fuck up.

    If he had a problem with the way the police treated him, he should have filed a complaint. Standing outside (or inside) screaming at that time is a public disturbance, and just makes you look unreasonable.
    What the hell are you on about?

    Grid System on
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    ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited July 2009
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    Well, you're actually not allowed to cause a disturbance in your own home. Wicked loud party? Yeah there are many many ordinances and various other laws against that. I imagine standing on your front porch and yelling falls vaguely into that arena, at least enough that the cops weren't technically in the wrong by arresting the guy.

    Seems to me the professor was just severely lacking in some common sense in regards to this situation. As a result, he spent some time in the clink. *shrug* I'm not really offended by that.

    I don't think you should be arrested for yelling at someone. Having a bad temper shouldn't be enough of a reason to throw someone in jail. Everything about that idea offends me.

    If you are yelling at someone and will not let something go and calm yourself down at one o'clock in the morning, you are causing a disturbance which is easily keeping the neighbors awake (or at least one, since they woke up to you hitting your shoulder against your door too). The police have every right to throw you in jail for doing so when you do not calm down and shut the fuck up.

    If he had a problem with the way the police treated him, he should have filed a complaint. Standing outside (or inside) screaming at that time is a public disturbance, and just makes you look unreasonable.

    After they refuse to give their badge numbers and don't leave after I show that I own the house that they're investigating for breaking and entering, I think I have every right to demand that they get off my property or get a warrant, and to yell at them and those damn kids to get off my lawn if they refuse.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    What the hell are you on about?

    The story I had heard on NHPR this afternoon discussed this occurring early in the morning. If this is not the case, then my bad.

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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Early afternoon. Call came in at around 12:45 PM.

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    EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yeah, I can't think of any reasonable explanation for why the cops didn't leave after Gates produced proper identification.

    this is why I'm suspicious about the case.

    even from Gates' own account, it sounds like he was being a bit indignant, when he should have just been grateful that the cops were trying to protect his house, HOWEVER, after he had shown identification, the cops should have apologized and left.

    I have to wonder if they would have stuck around the same way had it been a white man.

    Evander on
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    ethicalseanethicalsean Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Yeah, I can't think of any reasonable explanation for why the cops didn't leave after Gates produced proper identification.

    this is why I'm suspicious about the case.

    even from Gates' own account, it sounds like he was being a bit indignant, when he should have just been grateful that the cops were trying to protect his house, HOWEVER, after he had shown identification, the cops should have apologized and left.

    I have to wonder if they would have stuck around the same way had it been a white man.

    I think he, knowing he was in the right, mouthed off to some cops and they flexed their muscle. I've seen it several times with my own white father... and well... they arrested his ass (oh the childhood memories of having my father throw me his wallet in cuffs!). They were utterly in the wrong, abusing their power, and years later after the cases went to court... they at most got a slap on the wrist.

    Heck, even when I was in college, a cop tried to take me to the station because I was "breaking" into my own fucking car as I walked out with a bag of Wendys... and I was acting like a respectful scared pussy. This is what cops do.

    ethicalsean on
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    EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Yeah, I can't think of any reasonable explanation for why the cops didn't leave after Gates produced proper identification.

    this is why I'm suspicious about the case.

    even from Gates' own account, it sounds like he was being a bit indignant, when he should have just been grateful that the cops were trying to protect his house, HOWEVER, after he had shown identification, the cops should have apologized and left.

    I have to wonder if they would have stuck around the same way had it been a white man.

    I think he, knowing he was in the right, mouthed off to some cops and they flexed their muscle. I've seen it several times with my own white father... and well... they arrested his ass (oh the childhood memories of having my father throw me his wallet in cuffs!). They were utterly in the wrong, abusing their power, and years later after the cases went to court... they at most got a slap on the wrist.

    Heck, even when I was in college, a cop tried to take me to the station because I was "breaking" into my own fucking car as I walked out with a bag of Wendys... and I was acting like a respectful scared pussy. This is what cops do.

    could be as simple as that.

    it's the fact that they stuck around AFTER he complied that makes me sketchy on it. If the case was that he got indignant and refused to show ID, I might not feel the same.

    Evander on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Evander wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Yeah, I can't think of any reasonable explanation for why the cops didn't leave after Gates produced proper identification.

    this is why I'm suspicious about the case.

    even from Gates' own account, it sounds like he was being a bit indignant, when he should have just been grateful that the cops were trying to protect his house, HOWEVER, after he had shown identification, the cops should have apologized and left.

    I have to wonder if they would have stuck around the same way had it been a white man.

    I think he, knowing he was in the right, mouthed off to some cops and they flexed their muscle. I've seen it several times with my own white father... and well... they arrested his ass (oh the childhood memories of having my father throw me his wallet in cuffs!). They were utterly in the wrong, abusing their power, and years later after the cases went to court... they at most got a slap on the wrist.

    Heck, even when I was in college, a cop tried to take me to the station because I was "breaking" into my own fucking car as I walked out with a bag of Wendys... and I was acting like a respectful scared pussy. This is what cops do.

    could be as simple as that.

    it's the fact that they stuck around AFTER he complied that makes me sketchy on it. If the case was that he got indignant and refused to show ID, I might not feel the same.

    Cops tend to be assholes. They're not all corrupt, violent misogynist racists but they tend to be on a power trip. Even by Gates own telling of the story, he yelled at them and at first refused to show ID. He followed the officer out of the house still yelling at him and the cop arrested him. It wasn't for a good reason, but the actual reason was almost certainly that cops tend to try to swing their dick around when you yell at them, not because Gates was black. Hell at least one of the (four) officers present was black.

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    EvanderEvander Disappointed Father Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Evander wrote: »
    Yeah, I can't think of any reasonable explanation for why the cops didn't leave after Gates produced proper identification.

    this is why I'm suspicious about the case.

    even from Gates' own account, it sounds like he was being a bit indignant, when he should have just been grateful that the cops were trying to protect his house, HOWEVER, after he had shown identification, the cops should have apologized and left.

    I have to wonder if they would have stuck around the same way had it been a white man.

    I think he, knowing he was in the right, mouthed off to some cops and they flexed their muscle. I've seen it several times with my own white father... and well... they arrested his ass (oh the childhood memories of having my father throw me his wallet in cuffs!). They were utterly in the wrong, abusing their power, and years later after the cases went to court... they at most got a slap on the wrist.

    Heck, even when I was in college, a cop tried to take me to the station because I was "breaking" into my own fucking car as I walked out with a bag of Wendys... and I was acting like a respectful scared pussy. This is what cops do.

    could be as simple as that.

    it's the fact that they stuck around AFTER he complied that makes me sketchy on it. If the case was that he got indignant and refused to show ID, I might not feel the same.

    Cops tend to be assholes. They're not all corrupt, violent misogynist racists but they tend to be on a power trip. Even by Gates own telling of the story, he yelled at them and at first refused to show ID. He followed the officer out of the house still yelling at him and the cop arrested him. It wasn't for a good reason, but the actual reason was almost certainly that cops tend to try to swing their dick around when you yell at them, not because Gates was black. Hell at least one of the (four) officers present was black.

    You don't have to tell me twice. I got a speeding ticket today, despite the fact that it was only a very momentary speed burst, with no one in front of me, and my speed was back below the limit before the cop even entered traffic and turned on his lights.



    This case just reads as fishy to me, that's all. I guess I'd like to know exactly what Gates was saying.

    Evander on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Early afternoon. Call came in at around 12:45 PM.

    For reference, that would be 12:45 AM in China, which he had just flew in from.

    jothki on
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    powersurgepowersurge Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Honestly it sounds like the police were doing their job and he just wanted to make a scene. If he had of come out explained that he was the home owner, there was no break in and his ID was in the kitchen it could of been cleared up in a friendly manner. Instead when told to come out he ran back into the kitchen and to make matters worse after the police were starting to leave he followed them outside. Hell I don't care what color you are if I saw 2 guys forcing a door open across the street and I didn't know them I'd call the cops too and I would hope my neighbors would do the same. Better safe than sorry.

    powersurge on
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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    @powersurge:
    MrMister wrote: »
    I have a right to demand an officer's name and badge number; I have the right to be rude or impolite to an officer; I have the right to refuse to answer a great deal of questions; and etc. These rights are, unfortunately, rarely enforced--when it comes down to he said, she said, then the boys in blue close ranks and it's almost impossible to pin their abuses on them; this phenomenon is only exacerbated by the tisk-tiskers on the sidelines who believe anything in the police report. And, again, unfortunately, police abuses are disproportionately targeted towards the poor and minorities.

    I am fucking boggled by the notion that this respected community figure had it coming to him. The man is 58--it's probably fair to guess that, over the course of his life, he's been subject to disparate treatment from the police. And I doubt this incident gives him any reason to color his glasses any differently. If I were him, I'd no doubt be confrontational about being subject, once again, to the aggressive and likely legally improper whims of petty authoritarians.

    Please explain to me how the police arresting him was "just them doing their jobs."

    MrMister on
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    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2009
    Its kind of awesome how many people in here are treating the police report as anything close to factual.

    Oh wait, I meant to say "frustratingly naive".

    The Cat on
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    MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    Its kind of awesome how many people in here are treating the police report as anything close to factual.

    Oh wait, I meant to say "frustratingly naive".


    Seriously:

    "This guy has a vested interest in portraying himself well, he must be lying."

    And the police don't?

    MrMister on
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    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 2009
    I'm rather tempted to name the tendency "privilege in action", but its mostly the privilege of being young, docile, and relatively well-off rather than anything racial.

    Mostly. Harvard cops have, by all accounts, a well-established rep for harassing non-white students and academics.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
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