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Sam Raimi to direct World of Warcraft movie

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    SpindizzySpindizzy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    As far as I know, that was his major contribution to literature. The idea that a fantasy world can have functional, realistic socio-economic classes and conflicts.

    The Wizard of Oz series has some semblances of this, but it's a far cry from Tolkien's stuff. Though there may have been similar ideas in pulp fantasy. (I don't know much about pulp fantasy.)

    I don't think thats a new idea persay. I mean though religious in nature early literature especially those in imaginary settings seem to imply a working world to allow the 'message' to come through.

    I'm looking at you Pilgrim's Progress and Gulliver's Travels.

    I don't think its fair for whoever said a single OED reference to constitute 'common usage' isn't right may have got the wrong end of the stick. The OED's dating of words is based normally upon the earliest example in printed media available

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balderdash_and_piffle

    Also its hard to argue even common words we use now were 'common usage' as the accounts of all but what the most actively literate discussed (and often thats just business talk) is impossible to determine. What we do know though is that the survival of mythological creatures, ideas and themese survived by word of mouth through folk tales etc, its the basis of all modern forms of fantasy imho.

    Spindizzy on
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    KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    So, basically, your annoyed they used the word "Orc".
    I don't even really care that Warcraft uses Orc, because Warcraft is silly and satirical.

    As I said, this is more of a tirade against Eragon-style derivations that basically copy and paste elements from Tolkien's world. (Actually, in Eragon, they weren't even called "Orcs," they were called "Uruks" or some other half-assed attempt to at least give the appearance of non-plagiarism.)

    So this isn't about Warcraft at all then.
    Aw fuck. Check and mate!

    Hmm. Well this is a Warcraft thread, so anyone who says "warcraft is silly and satirical" and bases this on playing part of WCIII probably isn't the best person to advance an opinion on the topic. Maybe we should create a split thread about the origin of modern fantasy themes and shit instead?

    Or you could go play WCI-III and WOW then come and discuss your findings

    Kalkino on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    One of the neat things about Warcraft is that it does have a serious story. Particularly World of Warcraft has some surprisingly interesting lore behind it.

    That being said, it's a serious story presented through a funny, formulaic cartoon lens. It's sort of like the Who Framed Roger Rabbit of the high fantasy world.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Dyscord wrote: »
    One of the neat things about Warcraft is that it does have a serious story. Particularly World of Warcraft has some surprisingly interesting lore behind it.

    That being said, it's a serious story presented through a funny, formulaic cartoon lens. It's sort of like the Who Framed Roger Rabbit of the high fantasy world.

    This statement I can kind of get behind. It is often very satirical, and the people don't behave like they are from the middle ages. They behave like every day people dealing with magic and swords and the end of the world. You don't have (m)any super noble figures fighting for the sake of it's good and right. You can make an argument for Thrall, but that's about it. It's people going about their normal lives until "Oh shit, that Burning Legion is acting up again" and they have to bust out the swords and knock some heads. You have intolerances, bickering, friendships of necessity, etc. the same as normal societies, without all the high glory in other tales.

    I once joked with my roommate watching the Council of Rivendell scene in LOTR, that if it had been set in the Warcraft Universe, the council would have devolved into a brawl and a goblin would have sold The Ring off to the highest bidder.

    Mvrck on
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Mvrck wrote: »
    I once joked with my roommate watching the Council of Rivendell scene in LOTR, that if it had been set in the Warcraft Universe, the council would have devolved into a brawl and a goblin would have sold The Ring off to the highest bidder.

    Prophetic words: The Horde and Alliance discuss how to (not) handle Yogg-Saron. Complete with Rhonin as Elrond and Jaina as Gandalf.

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p1/index.xml#ulduartrailer

    Lynx on
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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    I actually can't think of any non-orc armed humanoid monster soldier in mythology either. Did Tolkien invent the idea of fantasy creatures that actually take an active role in their world, instead of just roaming around smashing things and eating maidens, keeping themselves really well hidden, or spending their time frolicking around and occasionally ruining weddings?
    As far as I know, that was his major contribution to literature. The idea that a fantasy world can have functional, realistic socio-economic classes and conflicts.

    The Wizard of Oz series has some semblances of this, but it's a far cry from Tolkien's stuff. Though there may have been similar ideas in pulp fantasy. (I don't know much about pulp fantasy.)

    Howard in particular put a lot of ink to paper on his fictional Hyborian Age, including cultures and conflicts, though most of it was a pastiche of world history as colored by the era that brought us fascism and eugenics.

    Elldren on
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    GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Who's going to play Leroy Jenkins?
    Ted Raimi
    Elki wrote: »
    Its opening night screening will be a once-in-a-lifetime experience, of this I am sure.
    All PvP flags will be turned on!

    GungHo on
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    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Who's going to play Leroy Jenkins?
    Ted Raimi

    :^:

    Olivaw on
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    CenoCeno pizza time Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I hope that this movie is good. I just keep picturing Toby Maguire in armor and... hurrrff... blargh...

    I think having a sense of humor will distinguish it. If they go all super-serious with the fantasy, it'll be garbage like 99% of all fantasy. Tolkien wrote fantasy, and the rest of it consists of people novelizing their D&D campaigns. A well-done tongue-in-cheek "epic fantasy" movie could be just what the Worgen Halloween mask ordered.

    Ceno on
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Before Tolkien, there was no image of elves as tall, beautiful, graceful archers. He invented that and chained it to the word "elf." Similarly, the image of dwarves as stocky, ax-wielding miners; I believe the only thing pre-tolkien dwarves had in common were the beards. And the word "orc" was never even in common usage beyond an obscure reference in Beowulf, in which no orcs actually appeared.

    This isnt entirely true. He was highly HIGHLY influenced by mythology and folk tales.

    The Ljósálfar or 'light elves' from Norse mythology were described as "fairer than the sun to look upon..."
    Or the Sidhe from gaelic mythology who were often described as "The Fair Folk" or "The Good Neighbors".

    Then theres the Dvergr or dwarves from Norse mythology who were associated with "rocks, the underground, deathliness, luck, technology and forging".

    Or one only has to look at the work of the British illustrator Arthur Rackham (1867-1939... for reference LoTR was written somewhere between 37 and 39) and his depictions of fairies, elves and goblins to see a huge influence on Tolkien.
    ArthurRackham.jpg
    rackham8.jpg
    Arthur+Rackham+The+Changeling+1905.jpg

    Or the German illustrator John Bauer (died in 1918) but within the same time frame.
    642px-John_Bauer_1915.jpg
    JohnBauer.jpg

    The reason so many people think that Tolkien is so original is because we have kind of replaced all these myths with other things. Just because we are so far away from the influences that we can no longer see them (as they were only popular in their time) doesn't mean they are not strongly there.
    Ill leave you with this Arthur Rackham illustration of a dwarf from 1911.
    397px-Ring35.jpg

    Wassermelone on
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    AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    You're sure those aren't Magic cards?

    Adrien on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    But the "fair folk" Tolkien drew inspiration from were these ethereal magical creatures. They didn't really have a culture or history, and they certainly weren't expert archers. The trope of elven archer—which is the trope most fantasy writers abuse when they write about elves—belongs to Tolkien.

    I did not know about the Norse dwarves, so it's possible that's just copied from mythology.

    Qingu on
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    But the "fair folk" Tolkien drew inspiration from were these ethereal magical creatures. They didn't really have a culture or history, and they certainly weren't expert archers. The trope of elven archer—which is the trope most fantasy writers abuse when they write about elves—belongs to Tolkien.

    I did not know about the Norse dwarves, so it's possible that's just copied from mythology.

    Jeebus, just stick a bow in the hand of one of the illustrations of the fair folk from Rackham and you've got it then. Its not like thats some big revelation. Very powerful weapon of war + fair folk? GASP. ITS HIS FOREVER.

    Wassermelone on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    But the "fair folk" Tolkien drew inspiration from were these ethereal magical creatures. They didn't really have a culture or history, and they certainly weren't expert archers. The trope of elven archer—which is the trope most fantasy writers abuse when they write about elves—belongs to Tolkien.

    I did not know about the Norse dwarves, so it's possible that's just copied from mythology.

    Jeebus, just stick a bow in the hand of one of the illustrations of the fair folk from Rackham and you've got it then. Its not like thats some big revelation. Very powerful weapon of war + fair folk? GASP. ITS HIS FOREVER.
    That's not all he did. As I said, he gave them a culture, a history, a civilization basically. Unless I am mistaken, the fair folk were basically vaguely defined fairy tale creatures that maybe had an immediate family, but nothing remotely like a civilization (or, for that matter, a language.)

    And again—when fantasy hack authors write about elves, they don't write about "the fair folk" of fairy tales and myths who inhabit a vaguely defined dreamworld. They write about stuffy dudes with bows who come from forest-dwelling civilizations.

    Qingu on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    But the "fair folk" Tolkien drew inspiration from were these ethereal magical creatures. They didn't really have a culture or history, and they certainly weren't expert archers. The trope of elven archer—which is the trope most fantasy writers abuse when they write about elves—belongs to Tolkien.

    I did not know about the Norse dwarves, so it's possible that's just copied from mythology.

    Jeebus, just stick a bow in the hand of one of the illustrations of the fair folk from Rackham and you've got it then. Its not like thats some big revelation. Very powerful weapon of war + fair folk? GASP. ITS HIS FOREVER.
    That's not all he did. As I said, he gave them a culture, a history, a civilization basically. Unless I am mistaken, the fair folk were basically vaguely defined fairy tale creatures that maybe had an immediate family, but nothing remotely like a civilization (or, for that matter, a language.)

    And again—when fantasy hack authors write about elves, they don't write about "the fair folk" of fairy tales and myths who inhabit a vaguely defined dreamworld. They write about stuffy dudes with bows who come from forest-dwelling civilizations.

    You keep coming back to this and I really feel you just are hesitant to accept or consider that Tolkien's work has become enough of a trope that this is acceptable. I am not excusing shitty writing, but you need to realize that taking what he did to these ideas and writing something else with it is just as acceptable as writing about vampires or zombies or hell, writing about Oberon and Titania.

    I still feel that all the work Tolkien put into this stuff it is silly to not mine it for things.

    And "Eragon" calling them "Uruk" is actually, in my opinion, worse because the word Uruk is the elvish and Black Speech word for Orc in Middle-Earth!

    HERE is the distinction! It eluded me yesterday, but this is it right there. Uruk is Tolkien's actual contribution. Using The languages he created is "ripping him off". NOT the orc culture, or the idea of elves in trees with bows.

    Think about that.

    Edit: What I mean is, calling something an "uruk" is like calling a murderous robot a "terminator". calling something an "orc" is a trope. Calling them an "uruk" is ripping off Tolkien's work.

    Arch on
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    But the "fair folk" Tolkien drew inspiration from were these ethereal magical creatures. They didn't really have a culture or history, and they certainly weren't expert archers. The trope of elven archer—which is the trope most fantasy writers abuse when they write about elves—belongs to Tolkien.

    I did not know about the Norse dwarves, so it's possible that's just copied from mythology.

    Jeebus, just stick a bow in the hand of one of the illustrations of the fair folk from Rackham and you've got it then. Its not like thats some big revelation. Very powerful weapon of war + fair folk? GASP. ITS HIS FOREVER.
    That's not all he did. As I said, he gave them a culture, a history, a civilization basically. Unless I am mistaken, the fair folk were basically vaguely defined fairy tale creatures that maybe had an immediate family, but nothing remotely like a civilization (or, for that matter, a language.)

    And again—when fantasy hack authors write about elves, they don't write about "the fair folk" of fairy tales and myths who inhabit a vaguely defined dreamworld. They write about stuffy dudes with bows who come from forest-dwelling civilizations.

    Their culture being...
    That they are beautiful and fair, but wrathful when it comes to it? Thats certainly not at all based on the fair folk. Or is that they are wise? Thats certainly not at all based on the fair folk. That they are leaving this land for another one away from humans? Thats certainly never been a part of common mythology.

    Seriously, Tolkein basically reached into the big gaelic, germanic* folk lore and myth grab bag and rummaged around. This does not make him bad. I like a lot of Tolkein, but he wasn't really original.

    Basically the only reason people think he is original is that hes still popular today while the myth and folk lore that it was all based on is mostly forgotten apart from historians.

    *And lots of other sources. Hell, the one ring is basically the Ring of Gyges. It even corrupts its wearer just as Plato said it would.

    Wassermelone on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I just checked and they're actually called "Urgals," not Uruks. I'm not sure if that's any better.

    (Uruk was a city in ancient Mesopotamia, actually.)

    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether Tolkien's specific application of elves and orcs and shit counts as a general trope (i.e. "rogue robots") or a specific trope (i.e. "terminators"). Tolkien is actually not that old of a writer; his books came out in the 50's ... that's more than 50 years after The Wizard of Oz, for example. And I think shit like Wicked is stupid.

    Qingu on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    I just checked and they're actually called "Urgals," not Uruks. I'm not sure if that's any better.

    (Uruk was a city in ancient Mesopotamia, actually.)

    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on whether Tolkien's specific application of elves and orcs and shit counts as a general trope (i.e. "rogue robots") or a specific trope (i.e. "terminators"). Tolkien is actually not that old of a writer; his books came out in the 50's ... that's more than 50 years after The Wizard of Oz, for example. And I think shit like Wicked is stupid.

    And even Wicked is a direct engagement with the original work, acknowleding L. Frank Baum's invention, and not set in its own fantasy world that also happens to have Munchkins and flying monkeys.

    Hachface on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Just adding this here instead of tacking it onto my other post:

    In Eragon the "orcs" are called Urugals. No harm no foul imo. But my point still stands.


    Also- Wassermelon that is really what I have been trying to point out.

    The fact that we know exactly who created these ideas leads people to cry foul when others use them. The fact is we don't know anymore where most of our other legends came from.

    The fact that a lot of people make reference to things that would almost be (or definitely are) copyright infringement is very telling, and frankly a difficult subject to address.

    How specific does copyrighting get? If I wrote a book about a sect of space-faring magicians with swords made of magic that cut through anything, is that infringing on Lucas' Jedis? Or can it be considered my own work?

    The problem here is people write stories about green, violent, humanoids and tall, snobby humanoids, and short, greedy humanoids. Are they the same thing as Tolkien's work? Maybe...but the words we use to name them have been around.

    Someone also mentioned "polishing a formula that works". I liked that a lot and it seems to me that going by that route maybe we should be a lot less tight-fisted with intellectual property (to a point. this becomes a slippery slope very quickly)

    Arch on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Their culture being...
    That they are beautiful and fair, but wrathful when it comes to it? Thats certainly not at all based on the fair folk. Or is that they are wise? Thats certainly not at all based on the fair folk. That they are leaving this land for another one away from humans? Thats certainly never been a part of common mythology.
    Have you read the books? Specifically the Silmarillion?

    The elves have a pretty interesting and unique culture that actually strikes me as very similar to some kind of scientific/environmentalist ideal (their magic is an "art," a kind of technology) that stems from their immortality. They are obviously influenced by traditional ideals of the fair folk as willowy magical beings, but that is hardly a sufficient characterization of Tolkien's elves.
    Seriously, Tolkein basically reached into the big gaelic, germanic folk lore and myth grab bag and rummaged around. This does not make him bad. I like a lot of Tolkein, but he wasn't really original.
    That's what creativity is. Nothing is created out of thin air. You create by taking real-world elements, maybe some that are forgotten or little-known, and re-arrange them and develop them into a believable thing that inhabits a fantasy world. If you don't think Tolkien is "original" than I wonder if you can point to a single instance of originality in fantasy literature.

    Creativity, however, is not copying the specific trope of another author. That's derivative.
    Basically the only reason people think he is original is that hes still popular today while the myth and folk lore that it was all based on is mostly forgotten apart from historians.
    Huh? We still have fairy tales and Norse mythology, dude.

    Qingu on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Actually I think "Wicked" was a good idea badly executed.

    Read "Grendel" for what that book should have been.

    Yea- The discussion really boils down to: LoTR influenced Orcs, Dwarves, and Elves: General Trope or Specific Trope?

    Arch on
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    WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Huh? We still have fairy tales and Norse mythology, dude.

    I meant that in the sense of the general population. We still have them, but they are forgotten. Like Orcs. And Elves. Dwarves... and the list could go on and on and on.



    Modern fantasy authors (for the most part) are not getting so specific to his ideas that they are really just getting the base ideas of the fair folk/elves. In most modern fantasy books elves are "beautiful and fair, but wrathful when it comes to it", pointy ears, and the forest. That was already a trope to be used. They just get to this conclusion through the filter of Tolkien.

    Wassermelone on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Huh? We still have fairy tales and Norse mythology, dude.

    I meant that in the sense of the general population. We still have them, but they are forgotten. Like Orcs. And Elves. Dwarves... and the list could go on and on and on.



    Modern fantasy authors (for the most part) are not getting so specific to his ideas that they are really just getting the base ideas of the fair folk/elves. In most modern fantasy books elves are "beautiful and fair, but wrathful when it comes to it", pointy ears, and the forest. That was already a trope to be used. They just get to this conclusion through the filter of Tolkien.
    In the modern fantasy stories I'm criticizing, elves also tend to wield bows and arrows and speak Nordic-sounding gibberish.

    Qingu on
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    DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Who's going to play Leroy Jenkins?
    Ted Raimi

    I disagree. Bruce Campbell FTW

    Deebaser on
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    Burden of ProofBurden of Proof You three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on. Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    If this was based on pre-WoW Warcraft, then I could get behind it.

    WoW, with its stripper elves, neutered orcs, and freakish gnomes? No thanks.

    Spider-Man 3 didn't exactly thrill me either.

    Burden of Proof on
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    QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    If this was based on pre-WoW Warcraft, then I could get behind it.

    WoW, with its stripper elves and gnomes? No thanks.

    Spider-Man 3 didn't exactly thrill me either.
    Hasn't Raimi said that the studio forced him to include Venom in the screenplay (who he didn't like), basically hamstringing the entire film?

    Qingu on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    If this was based on pre-WoW Warcraft, then I could get behind it.

    WoW, with its stripper elves, neutered orcs, and freakish gnomes? No thanks.

    Spider-Man 3 didn't exactly thrill me either.

    In all fairness, Stripper Elves and freaky gnomes were already in Warcraft III, as were 'neutered' orcs (I'd personally label them 'non-insane').

    Never saw Spiderman 3.

    Synthesis on
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    DrakeonDrakeon Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I think Raimi proved he can still make good movies with Drag Me To Hell, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with this. Well, for now at least. I'm interested to see what the first trailer will look like.

    Drakeon on
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    LynxLynx Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    If this was based on pre-WoW Warcraft, then I could get behind it.

    WoW, with its stripper elves, neutered orcs, and freakish gnomes? No thanks.

    Spider-Man 3 didn't exactly thrill me either.

    Stripper elves? Are you sure you're not confusing the lore with what players do when they're bored? And I don't even know what you're talking about with "Freakish Gnomes".

    As for neutered Orcs, I guess that's just a difference of opinion. I prefer the Orcs as they are now, rather than the mindless "Horde" they used to be.

    Lynx on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    If we're talking Night Elves as in this, yeah, stripper elves were there back in WC3.

    You could use plausible excuses like the fact that they lived in a gender-segregated, timeless, and almost entirely female society, barring unusual exceptions (like war). Of course, high fantasy is full of that kind of bullshit.

    I enjoy Warcraft because it acknowledges that fact from time to time.

    Synthesis on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    If this was based on pre-WoW Warcraft, then I could get behind it.

    WoW, with its stripper elves and gnomes? No thanks.

    Spider-Man 3 didn't exactly thrill me either.
    Hasn't Raimi said that the studio forced him to include Venom in the screenplay (who he didn't like), basically hamstringing the entire film?

    Yeah, Raimi is apparently not a Venom fan and didn't want to use him.

    I think the movie still would have sucked though. There was so much more wrong with the film then just that.

    shryke on
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    never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »

    You have fundamentally misunderstood my argument. This isn't about "real orcs" or "real vampires" or "real elves" or "real Jedi." (And there wasn't a "guy who invented the first vampire." The myth of vampires evolved, in a very real sense of the word "evolve," as legends about Vlad the Impaler got repeated, mutated, and spread out.)

    Not to be nitpicky, but that basically ignores the fact that vampire myths have existed in some form for millenia, and that until Bram Stoker came along, I do not think there was any real reference to Vlad. They also had many different forms of vampires, brought about from possesion and witches and demonic forces. The modern image of a vampire is derived from Dracula yes, but not even completely, as different versions have been created (twilight, Ann Rice, Whedon, White Wolf) for different stories.

    never die on
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    ToefooToefoo Los Angeles, CARegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Are we still arguing this shit?

    Let it go. The medium has changed, just as every other piece of literature and film has changed. The only people who give a shit are the ones who act like they have some entitlement to the original works.

    In regards to the actual topic of the thread, I really can't see this working out too well. It pains me to say this, because I'm a Warcraft fan but an even bigger fan of Raimi's work (sans Spiderman 3), but the odds are not in their favor on this. I suppose they're breaking new ground since technically this is the first MMO game to receive film treatment, but this really has the odds stacked against itself.

    Toefoo on
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    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Lynx wrote: »
    If this was based on pre-WoW Warcraft, then I could get behind it.

    WoW, with its stripper elves, neutered orcs, and freakish gnomes? No thanks.

    Spider-Man 3 didn't exactly thrill me either.

    Stripper elves? Are you sure you're not confusing the lore with what players do when they're bored? And I don't even know what you're talking about with "Freakish Gnomes".

    As for neutered Orcs, I guess that's just a difference of opinion. I prefer the Orcs as they are now, rather than the mindless "Horde" they used to be.

    Female blood elves are what all the creepy male horde WoW players that aren't furries roll. They are kinda skanky.

    And a midget girl with pink pigtails shanking you is pretty freaky, in my opinion.

    L|ama on
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    OremLKOremLK Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Seriously, Tolkein basically reached into the big gaelic, germanic folk lore and myth grab bag and rummaged around. This does not make him bad. I like a lot of Tolkein, but he wasn't really original.

    That's what creativity is. Nothing is created out of thin air. You create by taking real-world elements, maybe some that are forgotten or little-known, and re-arrange them and develop them into a believable thing that inhabits a fantasy world. If you don't think Tolkien is "original" than I wonder if you can point to a single instance of originality in fantasy literature.

    Bingo; single ideas are a dime a dozen. It's how you develop them, combine them, and enrich them that counts.

    This is true for all writing, not just fantasy.

    OremLK on
    My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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    bychancebychance Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Sam Raimi really is the only one who could possibly make this watchable.

    I'll watch if it has you-know-who is in it.

    bychance on
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    bychance wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Sam Raimi really is the only one who could possibly make this watchable.

    I'll watch if it has you-know-who is in it.

    Bruce is the only person who could possibly play Kel-Thuzad.

    180px-Kel%27thuzadhuman.jpg200px-Image-WoW_Comic_Ashbringer_4_0-a_%28artwork%29.jpg

    Bruce_Campbell_.jpg

    The resemblence is uncanny.

    Dracomicron on
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    bychance wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Sam Raimi really is the only one who could possibly make this watchable.

    I'll watch if it has you-know-who is in it.

    Bruce is the only person who could possibly play Kel-Thuzad.

    Man, I don't even particularly like Bruce Campbell, but you've made too convincing a case.
    L|ama wrote: »
    Lynx wrote: »
    If this was based on pre-WoW Warcraft, then I could get behind it.

    WoW, with its stripper elves, neutered orcs, and freakish gnomes? No thanks.

    Spider-Man 3 didn't exactly thrill me either.

    Stripper elves? Are you sure you're not confusing the lore with what players do when they're bored? And I don't even know what you're talking about with "Freakish Gnomes".

    As for neutered Orcs, I guess that's just a difference of opinion. I prefer the Orcs as they are now, rather than the mindless "Horde" they used to be.

    Female blood elves are what all the creepy male horde WoW players that aren't furries roll. They are kinda skanky.

    And a midget girl with pink pigtails shanking you is pretty freaky, in my opinion.

    I'm not questioning your opinions, as they are perfectly valid--however, I think pretty much every single MMORPG ever made, and say, at least three-fourths of popular video games, may bother you for similar reasons.

    Synthesis on
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    bychancebychance Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    bychance wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Sam Raimi really is the only one who could possibly make this watchable.

    I'll watch if it has you-know-who is in it.

    Bruce is the only person who could possibly play Kel-Thuzad.

    The resemblence is uncanny.

    Not who I was referring to.

    bychance on
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    OremLK wrote: »
    Qingu wrote: »
    Seriously, Tolkein basically reached into the big gaelic, germanic folk lore and myth grab bag and rummaged around. This does not make him bad. I like a lot of Tolkein, but he wasn't really original.

    That's what creativity is. Nothing is created out of thin air. You create by taking real-world elements, maybe some that are forgotten or little-known, and re-arrange them and develop them into a believable thing that inhabits a fantasy world. If you don't think Tolkien is "original" than I wonder if you can point to a single instance of originality in fantasy literature.

    Bingo; single ideas are a dime a dozen. It's how you develop them, combine them, and enrich them that counts.

    This is true for all writing, not just fantasy.

    it makes sense within Lotr because the setting was supposed to be a proto-Earth anyway

    nexuscrawler on
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