As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[Google Wave] OPEN TO ALL: invites no longer necessary!

2456730

Posts

  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Heh, one fax? We have at least 1 per floor and they all get used daily.. However, things are looking up as my IT manager is pushing for a fax server so at least in the building we won't have to use faxes anymore. But yeah, people are sticklers for what they're used to. We have typewriters on most of the floors too because people just won't get away from their multi-part forms..

    I'm curious if they'll open this up to the public for free, ala Google Mail/Chat/etc. Perhaps just replace that all with Wave.

    ArcSyn on
    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Looks like that's at least part of the plan. Actually, given the way Google already roll stuff out to free gmail accounts without telling anyone beforehand, I wouldn't be surprised if one day your g-mail account looked like the Wave client and there was a nice new message from Google telling you that they just replaced your mail and g-talk accounts with a wave account and added an e-mail robot so you can keep in contact with everyone else....

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Just watched the vid... hooooooooly shit that looks awesome. As a web developer the possibilities... dear god.

    Oh man I can't wait to get access to this!

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Started watching the video... 20 minutes in...

    I think the thread based e-mailing is pro.

    My three primary concerns right now are:

    1) Corporate adoptability - almost non-existent. Microsoft is likely to casually ignore Wave or try to reinvent it, and Microsoft owns US corporate e-mailing. This is a major blow to Wave taking a hold, to say nothing of IE8's lax or non-existent HTML 5 support.... and IE8 is very likely to become the new IE6 in terms of mass adoption and dumb users not upgrading.

    2) Live text based messaging. It's cool, but I'm not a fan. One of the great advantages to text based messages is premeditation and deliberation on what you say and how you say it. Per-character transmissions breaks that and I think it would actually make communication more quirky and hard, especially if you are backspace-prone.

    3) E-mail marketing? Marketing e-mails boil down to something circa HTML2 or 3... HTML 2 in a HTML 5 wrapper? I don't see it. Unless they propose to totally change e-marketing, which they won't, considering it's still stuck in 1996 and Gmail is no less guilty of making life hard.


    It's fun and cool, but it's day is not here... maybe one day.

    Will I still try to develop for it? Shit yeah.

    Jasconius on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    1. They address corporate uptake at the end; the Wave Protocol spec is open as will be their basic client; Microsoft could easily just drop Wave support into Outlook 2012 (or 1010 if they get a hurry on) without blinking; just one more comms protocol.
    2. There are plans to implement a button that lets you not update live; it's even there in the UI already, just non-functional in the preview.
    3. Uh, what? E-marketing would have to be different in Wave anyway; it's not really possible as far as I can tell to create a wave that doesn't permit instant feedback from whoever received it then share that feedback with everyone else automatically. he version of HTML used is completely irrelevant at that point.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yes.

    It would have to be different.

    And that is the point.

    If you've ever worked with e-Marketers you will understand that this will simply not happen. They have a hard enough time with the concept of text only e-mail blasts. Ask them to design within a whole new concept of "threads" and their heads will explode.

    The big concern was not the interaction as a result of thread based marketing, but instead the presentation, which will be weakened, and marketers only like shiny things. If they can't have shiny things, they aren't interested. At the very least, Wave minimizes screen space available to e-mail designers.




    OK LOOK DON'T GET UPSET

    It's not going to stillborn the project. But it's a big issue that someone is going to have to deal with eventually if they are serious about making this the global standard.

    Jasconius on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    1. They address corporate uptake at the end; the Wave Protocol spec is open as will be their basic client; Microsoft could easily just drop Wave support into Outlook 2012 (or 1010 if they get a hurry on) without blinking; just one more comms protocol.
    2. There are plans to implement a button that lets you not update live; it's even there in the UI already, just non-functional in the preview.
    3. Uh, what? E-marketing would have to be different in Wave anyway; it's not really possible as far as I can tell to create a wave that doesn't permit instant feedback from whoever received it then share that feedback with everyone else automatically. he version of HTML used is completely irrelevant at that point.

    This is not something Microsoft is known for doing. They only did this for e-mail, newsgroups, and RSS because the former two were firmly established before Microsoft's founding, and RSS was firmly established before Microsoft took notice of it.

    They have made a minor shift towards being more cooperative with the rest of the software development world in the last few years, so it's possible, but I won't be anticipating it.

    MKR on
  • Michael HMichael H Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    MKR wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    1. They address corporate uptake at the end; the Wave Protocol spec is open as will be their basic client; Microsoft could easily just drop Wave support into Outlook 2012 (or 1010 if they get a hurry on) without blinking; just one more comms protocol.
    2. There are plans to implement a button that lets you not update live; it's even there in the UI already, just non-functional in the preview.
    3. Uh, what? E-marketing would have to be different in Wave anyway; it's not really possible as far as I can tell to create a wave that doesn't permit instant feedback from whoever received it then share that feedback with everyone else automatically. he version of HTML used is completely irrelevant at that point.

    This is not something Microsoft is known for doing. They only did this for e-mail, newsgroups, and RSS because the former two were firmly established before Microsoft's founding, and RSS was firmly established before Microsoft took notice of it.

    They have made a minor shift towards being more cooperative with the rest of the software development world in the last few years, so it's possible, but I won't be anticipating it.

    I don't know; in light of recent events this is exactly the type of thing that I can see MS getting on the bandwagon with. In the past few months I've seen them take a decidedly "un-Microsoft" position on a lot of things.

    I believe that they're coming around to the realization that the while the world has revolved around them for a long time THEY actually need to get on board with the popular culture of the web and other applications.

    I would guess that they had a relations/marketing shakeup with the recent job cuts and are taking a new tack on things. Integration with Outlook would be a smart move. While work and business environments are the bread and butter of MS Office usage (and especially Outlook), many home users are moving away from email clients in general to web-based mail interfaces.

    Michael H on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I doubt it. Keep in mind also that Microsoft is notoriously segregated in terms of departments. The people who run Live might as well be a different company from the Office team.

    Also keep in mind that e-mail formatting support actually got WORSE in 2007, instead of better. Outlook is focused on office coordination and productivity, not on improving existing e-mail functionality in any sweeping way, nor do they have any incentive to adopt such a radically different protocol, for much the same reason why eBay can't redesign their site...

    I know it's hard to imagine but you and I also believe that Google is forgetting that most people, in fact a super majority of people, are fucking retarded. Regular e-mail is still a mystery to them, introducing a whole new scheme will just not go over well.

    OK YES, Wave is very cool. But it isn't the 4 horsemen riding on a tidal wave of awesome that will fundamentally change the landscape of online communication anytime in the actionable future on a meaningful scale.

    Jasconius on
  • LoneIgadzraLoneIgadzra Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I think people are still mystified by email because, even in 2009, it's just not simple. If you want to run a desktop client, you have to go through all this configuration that sometimes doesn't work because the people who who run your ISP's mail server are retarded. If you want to use webmail, there are dozens of popular clients used by both ISP-driven and free services alike. IMAP is totally different and confusing across different mail servers, let alone different clients. And it's just confusing as hell.

    Wave looks to have the potential to change that up. All the early adopters will just be logging into one central google server/implementation in the beginning, with one web client, and as it gets more popular, the consumer-oriented clients available will be forced to look a lot like Google's. Basically, it seems to me that the wave-verse will start out quite homogenous and simple, and it won't be in anyone's interests to change that for consumers because consumers don't like things that are different and confusing. I'm sure we'll eventually see completely bizarre wave clients designed to suit someone's whims, but you won't see these kinds of different things in the mainstream the way you do with email.

    LoneIgadzra on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I doubt it. Keep in mind also that Microsoft is notoriously segregated in terms of departments. The people who run Live might as well be a different company from the Office team.

    Also keep in mind that e-mail formatting support actually got WORSE in 2007, instead of better. Outlook is focused on office coordination and productivity, not on improving existing e-mail functionality in any sweeping way, nor do they have any incentive to adopt such a radically different protocol, for much the same reason why eBay can't redesign their site...

    I know it's hard to imagine but you and I also believe that Google is forgetting that most people, in fact a super majority of people, are fucking retarded. Regular e-mail is still a mystery to them, introducing a whole new scheme will just not go over well.

    OK YES, Wave is very cool. But it isn't the 4 horsemen riding on a tidal wave of awesome that will fundamentally change the landscape of online communication anytime in the actionable future on a meaningful scale.
    I fail to see how Outlook being all about "office coordination and productivity" means MS wouldn't want Wave integration, what with the whole point of Wave being office coordination and productivity...

    ALSO there's no need to shout randomly at people. It lowers your public image.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    It's the only way to get through to the Google apologists sometimes.

    Jasconius on
  • Dark ShroudDark Shroud Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Mr_Rose, you've been a bit of a jerk in this thread. One all capped word for emphasis is not bad at all. You also seem naïve about business world technology. It’s seriously a different world.

    Dark Shroud on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Mr_Rose, you've been a bit of a jerk in this thread. One all capped word for emphasis is not bad at all. You also seem naïve about business world technology. It’s seriously a different world.
    If it was just one, I wouldn't care. Try reading back up-tread a bit, huh? And what the heck is a "google apologist" exactly, if not a term of prejudicial disdain?
    Also, your insightful analysis ("meh" in case you forgot) does you no favours either.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • Michael HMichael H Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I know it's hard to imagine but you and I also believe that Google is forgetting that most people, in fact a super majority of people, are fucking retarded. Regular e-mail is still a mystery to them, introducing a whole new scheme will just not go over well.

    This is a valid point.

    Michael H on
  • Shorn Scrotum ManShorn Scrotum Man Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    It's the only way to get through to the Google apologists sometimes.

    Man, where is a WHARRGARBL picture when you need one.

    The only mystery in email is setting it up. Once that's done even my grandma can send/receive email and attachments. As long as they make it intuitive people will figure out how to use it, even if they never necessarily understand how it works.

    Shorn Scrotum Man on
    steam_sig.png
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Reply to All begs to differ

    Jasconius on
  • devoirdevoir Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    There's a lot of "oh ho, I am an intellectual snob" vibe going on in here, when people start throwing around "jerk" and "apologist" because not everyone is down on the product.

    Facebook is more similar to Wave than e-mail. Morons seem to work that fine.

    devoir on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Fewer than you'd think, and of those that do, no small amount do it badly.

    Let's not boil this down to "people aren't as dumb as you think they are". There are multiple facets to Google's challenges with this project, and Microsoft buying in and e-marketing conflicts are major undeniable parts of that.

    How do you get companies like Yahoo to adopt it for their web mail clients? That entire revenue stream exists for them because people still aren't even aware that Gmail exists as a totally superior product, and Gmail has been out for 6 or 7 years. Given that, what is the incentive for Yahoo to drop big money on redeveloping their entire e-mail interface (which they JUST overhauled last year) to adopt Wave, when their user base

    1) Doesn't even realize what Google is doing with Gmail in the first place or at least doesn't give a shit
    2) Would be just as likely to be put off by the massive paradigm shift and go to some legacy provider rather than love it and actually figure it out.

    Again. Topics in macroweb development. The reason ebays site looks like shit is because they *know* that if they so much as moved a button, people would freak the hell out and ebay would lose revenue, if only for a day, that's big fucking money when you're that big of a company. The same principal applies here to e-mail.

    Jasconius on
  • Blake TBlake T Do you have enemies then? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Fewer than you'd think, and of those that do, no small amount do it badly.

    Let's not boil this down to "people aren't as dumb as you think they are". There are multiple facets to Google's challenges with this project, and Microsoft buying in and e-marketing conflicts are major undeniable parts of that.

    How do you get companies like Yahoo to adopt it for their web mail clients? That entire revenue stream exists for them because people still aren't even aware that Gmail exists as a totally superior product, and Gmail has been out for 6 or 7 years. Given that, what is the incentive for Yahoo to drop big money on redeveloping their entire e-mail interface (which they JUST overhauled last year) to adopt Wave, when their user base

    1) Doesn't even realize what Google is doing with Gmail in the first place or at least doesn't give a shit
    2) Would be just as likely to be put off by the massive paradigm shift and go to some legacy provider rather than love it and actually figure it out.

    Again. Topics in macroweb development. The reason ebays site looks like shit is because they *know* that if they so much as moved a button, people would freak the hell out and ebay would lose revenue, if only for a day, that's big fucking money when you're that big of a company. The same principal applies here to e-mail.

    I am guessing that the wave will have some of the functionality built in for non-google users.

    That is to say wave will spot that they are trying to communicate with a non-wave person and email them regularly. When they respond google will place their response in the wave where appropriate. It's not perfect but you will still get that level of interaction.

    Also isn't wave going to be open source?

    Blake T on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Yeah, but the burden of legacy compatibility will probably be on Google to make sure that Wave users can still talk to legacy users in a functional way, not necessarily the other way around.

    Anyway, to my earlier point about Yahoo:

    http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/29/technology/microsoft_yahoo/index.htm?postversion=2009072908

    That will probably be important.

    Jasconius on
  • SAW776SAW776 Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    I doubt that'll mean anything. You don't say "Hey, Yahoo it." or "Hey, Bing it." You Google it. And that right there has a power that can rival a fuck load of money.

    SAW776 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PSN: SAW776
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2009
    What? Read the thread. The topic was about Microsoft as a barrier to broad scale adoption. If Yahoo is in Microsoft's pocket, that doesn't bode well for Google if Microsoft decides to compete.

    It has little to do with search.

    Jasconius on
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    It has little to do with search.

    That is the battleground, is it not?


    But ultimately, when a company defines a product by their name* they pretty much are solid.

    *(IE: You say "Hand me a Kleenex." not "Hand me a facial tissue." Another example is Jell-O. You call it Jell-O, not gelatin desert.)

    Lucky Cynic on
  • MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited July 2009
    Jasconius wrote: »
    It has little to do with search.

    That is the battleground, is it not?


    But ultimately, when a company defines a product by their name* they pretty much are solid.

    *(IE: You say "Hand me a Kleenex." not "Hand me a facial tissue." Another example is Jell-O. You call it Jell-O, not gelatin desert.)

    Advertising is the issue here. Google the search engine is just eyeballs, and it's nothing compared to Google the publisher network.

    MKR on
  • DusdaDusda is ashamed of this post SLC, UTRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hmm, I think Wave is having some issues behind the scenes right now. My robot stopped working for no reason...right in the middle of a json debugging session :(.

    e: Anyone besides me here have a sandbox account? I could use some more active peeps to throw stuff at.

    Dusda on
    and this sig. and this twitch stream.
  • jonxpjonxp [E] PC Security Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So non-sandbox accounts go live tomorrow. Looking forward to trying it out.

    I really want to set up my own server and write some stuff for Wave, but I require some specific functionality that is undefined by their specs at the moment (mostly access control stuff). In the mean time, we'll just need to get to work on replacing the entire PA forums with Wave. ;-)

    jonxp on
    Every time you write parallel fifths, Bach kills a kitten.
    3DS Friend Code: 2707-1614-5576
    PAX Prime 2014 Buttoneering!
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    wave.google.com to sign up tomorrow? I can't wait to give this thing a shot.

    ArcSyn on
    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Nope; you have to know people. Or know people who know people. The invites are about again. It makes me feel all Gmail-ey inside.

    Frem on
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    If anyone here is lucky enough to get in and is willing to spare invites any for PA peeps, PM me and I can add an appropriate section to the OP.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • areaarea Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm an obsessive email checker at the best of times, so today is going to be fun.

    area on
  • seasleepyseasleepy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Frem wrote: »
    Nope; you have to know people. Or know people who know people. The invites are about again. It makes me feel all Gmail-ey inside.
    While there's probably a fair amount that will come from knowing people, I think a lot of these invites are coming from sign ups on the form on the Wave page (presumably those who checked the box to say "Why yes, I will certainly file bug reports!").

    I don't think there will be invites to hand out once people get in (yet) -- I suspect that at the moment, it will be more like Google Voice currently is where you can get an invite for yourself, and that's it. Maybe if you signed up on the waiting list with two email accounts, you might get lucky and get invites for both.

    I was hopeful yesterday when I heard the 100,000 number, but it is Google, and I signed up on the waiting list pretty late. I did give them my grandma's oatmeal cookie recipe in the message area of the form though, so hopefully that gets me some extra points. ;-)

    seasleepy on
    Steam | Nintendo: seasleepy | PSN: seasleepy1
  • Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    seasleepy wrote: »
    Frem wrote: »
    Nope; you have to know people. Or know people who know people. The invites are about again. It makes me feel all Gmail-ey inside.
    While there's probably a fair amount that will come from knowing people, I think a lot of these invites are coming from sign ups on the form on the Wave page (presumably those who checked the box to say "Why yes, I will certainly file bug reports!").

    I don't think there will be invites to hand out once people get in (yet) -- I suspect that at the moment, it will be more like Google Voice currently is where you can get an invite for yourself, and that's it. Maybe if you signed up on the waiting list with two email accounts, you might get lucky and get invites for both.

    I was hopeful yesterday when I heard the 100,000 number, but it is Google, and I signed up on the waiting list pretty late. I did give them my grandma's oatmeal cookie recipe in the message area of the form though, so hopefully that gets me some extra points. ;-)

    According to BBC, each of the 100,000 will get five invites they can send to whoever they want, so, hope.

    Mai-Kero on
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    If anyone here is lucky enough to get in and is willing to spare invites any for PA peeps, PM me and I can add an appropriate section to the OP.

    Hopefully it will work like gmail invites did, so we can just form a conga line.

    Mojo_Jojo on
    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • ArcSynArcSyn Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, if they allow invites, consider me on the list desiring one.

    ArcSyn on
    4dm3dwuxq302.png
  • seasleepyseasleepy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Mai-Kero wrote: »
    According to BBC, each of the 100,000 will get five invites they can send to whoever they want, so, hope.
    Excellent news. I had completely missed that.

    seasleepy on
    Steam | Nintendo: seasleepy | PSN: seasleepy1
  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Oh man, I'm going to be watching my inbox all afternoon at work now.

    Mike Danger on
    Steam: Mike Danger | PSN/NNID: remadeking | 3DS: 2079-9204-4075
    oE0mva1.jpg
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Do the secondary users also get five invites? I can't remember if gmail had some kind of cooldown period with finite invites or if it was straight to "everybody gets five".

    Edit: Hmm, I've just heard a rumour that the invites are going to be sent at 4pm BST. So in ten minutes. Could be nothing.

    Mojo_Jojo on
    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • Lucky CynicLucky Cynic Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'd like invite! I would actually use (abuse?) the hell out of google wave! :D

    Lucky Cynic on
  • bigwahbigwah Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I too would like an invite if anyone is lucky enough to get them.

    bigwah on
    LoL Tribunal:
    "Was cursing, in broken english at his team, and at our team. made fun of dead family members and mentioned he had sex with a dog."
    "Hope he dies tbh but a ban would do."
Sign In or Register to comment.