If you have holy paladins that would take spell mail over a shaman then they're assholes, lol. My wife plays a holy paladin, and she would never take a piece of mail if a shaman in the raid needed it. She already has a full monopoly on plate spell gear, so she doesn't even consider mail unless it's an upgrade and the shamans don't need it.
The conversation that comes from is a conversation about how only two specs of one class can use spellpower mail, and how that either justifies it bein infuriatingly rare, or is the reason behind it, etc., not about paladins taking it from shaman.
I know of few people who would roll on mail if they wear plate, if there's a mail-wearer in the raid that needs it.
this except for things like legendary drops. Hence my comment about painting themselves into a corner. The more gear they put in, the more ridiculously wide the drop tables get and the more the chances of something desirable (for the raid in general) dropping get diluted.
Wow, I am looking at the loot from the 5 man instances so far, and it seems fairly done. And christ they felt like fucking Shamans in the ass or something. Well caster ones anyway.
You get a healer dagger for your only 232 caster option. Yay mp5, I dont want you. Then, you get 2 fucking mail options. 2. Total. The melee mail for hunters and enhancement get 6. 6 Different pieces means 75% of your gear is done. Casters get 2. And to make it even worse, its legs and head. Prolly the more likely you wont need. No bracers so there is some other viable option outside of Wintergrasp shits or crafted junk.
I mean you can downgrade your shit to leather and cloth, but its just stupid how they did this.
I had to vent. I hope to god more gear comes to light, but the length of the list makes me feel like it wont.
Not to mention there's no fucking Elemental version of Quel'delar.
Hey.
Hey Blizzard.
Shaman cannot use Swords.
At all.
Ever.
Under any circumstance.
There is a caster mace, but it has mp5 so Ele shamans will be pissed that it's itemized for healing. It's just like the Warriors/Paladins bitching about there not being a tanking option. Basically, Blizzard makes a questline where any class can get a reward(for at least one spec, not all) and a bunch of entitled whiny babies cry because their spec isn't getting an option.
I play a Warrior tank, but jesus christ. It's not like my 232/245 tanking weapons can't hold me off until I get a 251+ one from ICC.
When you consider Shamans and holy paladins are the only class rolling on spell mail, it's not that big of a deal.
First, holy paladins are not going to be rolling on DPS Spell Power Mail. That solves half your problem. Second, why would a raid allow a holy paladin to roll against a Resto Shaman on healing mail?
And if you're in a raid that allows for people to down-roll against primary armor wearers, then you should be rolling on any spell power leather or cloth that drops, so I don't see the problem.
EDIT: And back to the main point, maybe I'm just lucky, but we see a lot of SP Mail drop in Ulduar and ToC. Some nights it's like candy, other nights it's a drought, but I can't say I've personally been starved for SP mail.
There is a caster mace, but it has mp5 so Ele shamans will be pissed that it's itemized for healing. It's just like the Warriors/Paladins bitching about there not being a tanking option. Basically, Blizzard makes a questline where any class can get a reward(for at least one spec, not all) and a bunch of entitled whiny babies cry because their spec isn't getting an option.
I play a Warrior tank, but jesus christ. It's not like my 232/245 tanking weapons can't hold me off until I get a 251+ one from ICC.
They honestly should've made the sword crit and the mace haste, or something along those lines, because there are simply NO healers at ilvl 245+ who are starving for regen and need it on their weapon. Having regen on a weapon really dumbly limits it, would be the argument against the mace's itemization that I'd make.
However, I don't know that you can call it unreasonable entitlement to have a well-itemized version for all classes/specs, given that they'd have to add 2 more versions to the 7 existing ones. That's not even 1/3 more. The quest chain is going to take many, many hours to complete, so I don't know why they couldn't go the extra five feet, having gone the mile.
Does the MP5 make the mace not an upgrade over the best of ToC25/HToC10?
If I slap strength on a bow that's better than the last bow/crossbow/gun available, does that mean Hunters should just live with having a bad stat they never want because someone else wants it?
The Muffin Man on
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I was, but TMM is one of the resident Malfunctioning Eddies, so it's kind of expected. I'm curious if 6 ilevels of SP makes it better than a 245 without MP5.
It is a shame that the Quel'delar sword and mace aren't itemized the same really. I don't see why it has to be different, other than to shove mp5 down our throats.
Why take Haste that is great and replace it with mp5 which is meh at best?
So for player vs. player, does enhancement Shaman ever pick up? Right now low level battlegrounds, read 40s, aren't really as fun as I thought it would be. Most of my games are just me being stunned, rooted, or just plain dead in two-three hits.
Does the MP5 make the mace not an upgrade over the best of ToC25/HToC10?
If I slap strength on a bow that's better than the last bow/crossbow/gun available, does that mean Hunters should just live with having a bad stat they never want because someone else wants it?
If they want to do more damage until they get a properly itemized bow out of ICC then yes, they should. That's a bad parallel anyway. People are annoyed that Blizz is giving 3/4 of all specs a nice 251 weapon, and a couple get left in the cold. It's really not a big deal. Everybody will get better weapons than the Quel'delar quest ones in ICC10 anyway.
It is a shame that the Quel'delar sword and mace aren't itemized the same really. I don't see why it has to be different, other than to shove mp5 down our throats.
Why take Haste that is great and replace it with mp5 which is meh at best?
They're itemized that way because all 4 healing classes can use the mace, which is a healing weapon.
When you consider Shamans and holy paladins are the only class rolling on spell mail, it's not that big of a deal.
First, holy paladins are not going to be rolling on DPS Spell Power Mail. That solves half your problem. Second, why would a raid allow a holy paladin to roll against a Resto Shaman on healing mail?
And if you're in a raid that allows for people to down-roll against primary armor wearers, then you should be rolling on any spell power leather or cloth that drops, so I don't see the problem.
Because at the current tier of itemization many drops are either redundant or simply have the wrong stats on them. The simple fact is that several best in slot ele and/or resto items also happen to be best in slot for holy pallies and there are no other substitutes.
I don't disagree that there are a handful of 258 mail pieces that are ever so slightly better than the plate options that are also ilvl 258, but the difference is so small it's stupid to even talk about.
It should also be noted that the crying masses have been heard by Blizzard. They're changing the Mp5 on the Quel'delar quest mace to haste so it's a better DPS option. GC said they intended for the quest to give DPSers all a chance at a weapon, not tanks or healers. Granted, healers can still take the mace/sword which is nice. Only tanks are left out, and GC is correct when he says that tank weapons don't matter that much for warriors and paladins so they can QQ.
SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
It'd have to be at whatever point roughly seven lightning bolts and maybe a third of the damage from flame shock with the bonus from ToW is less than 10% of whatever your lava burst's doing.
Sure that's just at 3k SP?
Senshi on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
where's the seven lightning bolts thing coming from?
Dhalphir on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Okay, only six. My bad.
Senshi on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
no but i mean can you explain how that works to a non-ele shaman. asking out of curiosity
Lava burst has an 8 second cooldown, which is enough time for 6 lightning bolts inbetween. Since the wrath glyph is flat spellpower and lava is % damage to lava burst, there's a certain spellpower figure where lava passes up wrath.
According to my spreadsheet, it's at about 3130 buffed spellpower.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
yes I get that part.
I don't get what Senshi is trying to say though....you'd cast Lava Burst then cast Lightning Bolts in between...10% of lava burst doesn't have to be greater than those lightning bolts.
maybe he phrased himself badly
Dhalphir on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
You'd need the damage from +84SP(6LB + 1LvB + 'bout a third of a (glyphed) Flame Shock) to be less than the damage from 6LB + +10%SP(1LvB) + 'bout a third of a (glyphed) Flame Shock, for Glyph of Lava to be better than Glyph of Totem of Wrath.
Also I can't decide between Glyph of Thunderstorm and Glyph of Water Shield. Or rather, I can't decide between no knockback or 2% extra mana regen.
Senshi on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Pretty much. On longer fights or if I've had to reincarn it can become an issue if you don't keep your water shield up or are throwing lots of chain lits. Generally the global cooldown water shield glyph can save you is much more valuable than a little more mana from tstorm. Plus it removes its best feature. Pew pew force push lasers.
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
It's more of a "do you want to suffer angry looks from the tank or be able to knock people off the lumberyard ledge in AB?" question than mana regen thing. And the extra mana regen helps when you've just died and Reincarnated.
It's more of a "do you want to suffer angry looks from the tank or be able to knock people off the lumberyard ledge in AB?" question than mana regen thing. And the extra mana regen helps when you've just died and Reincarnated.
But no, we generally don't have mana problems.
Ah, good memories of playing cliffball. 1 point for a roadkill, 5 for water (doubled if you kill them when they come back up) and 15 for hitting blacksmith island.
BlueDestiny on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
I dont quite get the tank complaining with the knockback sometimes. I mean I can see when you do it early or knock them somewhere they cant get back or something, but if you let them get adequate aggro, it just eases the pain for a bit.
And if you start getting some serious haste, you CAN have mana problems.
Kai_San on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
You don't get it because you have not tanked.
Especially when tanking multiple mobs, it is annoying to get them all in your front arc so they aren't hitting your unprotected rear (:winky:), it is then annoying to position yourself so that latency doesn't cause them to wander out of that front arc, and then you just get them positioned, someone knocks them out of position and you have to do it all over again.
And that's just if they're melee mobs, if they're casters, its even worse.
I dont quite get the tank complaining with the knockback sometimes. I mean I can see when you do it early or knock them somewhere they cant get back or something, but if you let them get adequate aggro, it just eases the pain for a bit.
And if you start getting some serious haste, you CAN have mana problems.
Trying raiding Onyxia and then using a non-glyphed Thunderstorm on the whelps in phase 2, and you'll understand why if you don't glyph for Thunderstorm, it basically becomes an 8% mana refresh with a 45 second timer.
EDIT: And personally, with the fact that ele shamans don't have mana issues, it'd be nice if they changed Thunderstorm to a single target spell that damaged everything 20 yards around the target. That'd be a nice little boost.
ironzerg on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
It'd be nice if they changed Thunderstorm to something that was actually viable for AoE
It's never been intended for AoE--it's a knockback and a method of mana regen. For AoE, you've got CL and the upcoming Fire Nova.
Still, with the Fire Nova change, I still have to run into the middle of the group, drop my Wrath Totem, and then commence AOEing...I'm not really sold on it being a major change. For Enh, it's great. For those of us who are still 30-35 yards out from the fight, not so much,
Posts
The conversation that comes from is a conversation about how only two specs of one class can use spellpower mail, and how that either justifies it bein infuriatingly rare, or is the reason behind it, etc., not about paladins taking it from shaman.
I know of few people who would roll on mail if they wear plate, if there's a mail-wearer in the raid that needs it.
The problem is that Blizzard seems completely incapable of: this except for things like legendary drops. Hence my comment about painting themselves into a corner. The more gear they put in, the more ridiculously wide the drop tables get and the more the chances of something desirable (for the raid in general) dropping get diluted.
Hey.
Hey Blizzard.
Shaman cannot use Swords.
At all.
Ever.
Under any circumstance.
I play a Warrior tank, but jesus christ. It's not like my 232/245 tanking weapons can't hold me off until I get a 251+ one from ICC.
First, holy paladins are not going to be rolling on DPS Spell Power Mail. That solves half your problem. Second, why would a raid allow a holy paladin to roll against a Resto Shaman on healing mail?
And if you're in a raid that allows for people to down-roll against primary armor wearers, then you should be rolling on any spell power leather or cloth that drops, so I don't see the problem.
EDIT: And back to the main point, maybe I'm just lucky, but we see a lot of SP Mail drop in Ulduar and ToC. Some nights it's like candy, other nights it's a drought, but I can't say I've personally been starved for SP mail.
They honestly should've made the sword crit and the mace haste, or something along those lines, because there are simply NO healers at ilvl 245+ who are starving for regen and need it on their weapon. Having regen on a weapon really dumbly limits it, would be the argument against the mace's itemization that I'd make.
However, I don't know that you can call it unreasonable entitlement to have a well-itemized version for all classes/specs, given that they'd have to add 2 more versions to the 7 existing ones. That's not even 1/3 more. The quest chain is going to take many, many hours to complete, so I don't know why they couldn't go the extra five feet, having gone the mile.
If I slap strength on a bow that's better than the last bow/crossbow/gun available, does that mean Hunters should just live with having a bad stat they never want because someone else wants it?
maybe a cue for everyone to take a deep breath.
Why take Haste that is great and replace it with mp5 which is meh at best?
If they want to do more damage until they get a properly itemized bow out of ICC then yes, they should. That's a bad parallel anyway. People are annoyed that Blizz is giving 3/4 of all specs a nice 251 weapon, and a couple get left in the cold. It's really not a big deal. Everybody will get better weapons than the Quel'delar quest ones in ICC10 anyway.
They're itemized that way because all 4 healing classes can use the mace, which is a healing weapon.
Using Chain Heal and Earth Shield for resto. What's a good third there?
Resto usually goes with Earth Shield, Lesser Healing Wave and Riptide.
Sure that's just at 3k SP?
According to my spreadsheet, it's at about 3130 buffed spellpower.
I don't get what Senshi is trying to say though....you'd cast Lava Burst then cast Lightning Bolts in between...10% of lava burst doesn't have to be greater than those lightning bolts.
maybe he phrased himself badly
Also I can't decide between Glyph of Thunderstorm and Glyph of Water Shield. Or rather, I can't decide between no knockback or 2% extra mana regen.
But no, we generally don't have mana problems.
Ah, good memories of playing cliffball. 1 point for a roadkill, 5 for water (doubled if you kill them when they come back up) and 15 for hitting blacksmith island.
And if you start getting some serious haste, you CAN have mana problems.
Especially when tanking multiple mobs, it is annoying to get them all in your front arc so they aren't hitting your unprotected rear (:winky:), it is then annoying to position yourself so that latency doesn't cause them to wander out of that front arc, and then you just get them positioned, someone knocks them out of position and you have to do it all over again.
And that's just if they're melee mobs, if they're casters, its even worse.
Trying raiding Onyxia and then using a non-glyphed Thunderstorm on the whelps in phase 2, and you'll understand why if you don't glyph for Thunderstorm, it basically becomes an 8% mana refresh with a 45 second timer.
EDIT: And personally, with the fact that ele shamans don't have mana issues, it'd be nice if they changed Thunderstorm to a single target spell that damaged everything 20 yards around the target. That'd be a nice little boost.
but hey that's just me
Still, with the Fire Nova change, I still have to run into the middle of the group, drop my Wrath Totem, and then commence AOEing...I'm not really sold on it being a major change. For Enh, it's great. For those of us who are still 30-35 yards out from the fight, not so much,