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[WoW] What's the plural of [shaman] anyway? Cata info links in OP!

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    LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I agree that elemental warding is better than 3 points in convection, but improved ghost wolf is at best marginally useful, for maybe one endgame raid encounter. Those two points I think are better spent in almost any talent in the elemental tree.

    Litejedi on
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    RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Resto is pretty easy for heroics. Earth shield the tank 99% of the time. Chain Heal is nice if you are melee heavy and they take aoe damage. If not, go with Rip Tide -> Lesser Healing Wave. Healing Way is meh at best right now, and usually you won't be using it, but if you need to make sure you have used a chain heal or a rip tide before you cast it. Mana stream totem if mana is a big issue, if not, run with healing stream instead. In 5 mans I only drop totems on bosses, or if a mob fears.

    RedDawn on
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    lifeincognitolifeincognito Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I think we also need to bring in the fact that you would have to juggle the Lava Burst cool down and the Chain Lightning cool down.

    If you [ Flame Shock, Lava Burst, Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt ] you have an extra second, assuming ideal conditions of chain casting and low latency with zero haste, in which you cannot do much but wait for the cool down of Lava Burst. So you would need enough haste to produce an additional second of time to cast Lighting Bolt again because Chain Lightning would not be free to use yet. However, that would be more damage than [Flame Shock, Lava Burst, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt] and this rotation would give you half a second of free time assuming ideal conditions. Of course by more damage I mean only 10 more damage assuming 2000 spell power.

    Chain Lightning: 1111 max damage with 57.14% of 2000 gives you 2253.8
    Lightning Bolt: 815 max damage with 71.42% of 2000 gives you 2243.4

    And at 2500 spell power Lightning Bolt ( 2600 ) begins to do more damage than Chain Lightning ( 2539 ).

    So unless you have enough haste to squeeze out an additional Lightning Bolt before Lava Burst comes off cool down it really is all the same if you stick with Lightning Bolts on single targets.

    lifeincognito on
    losers weepers. jawas keepers.
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Plus 4-piece t8 gives Lightning Bolt an ignite-like effect, not chain lightning.

    captaink on
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    LouieLouie Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Litejedi wrote: »
    I agree that elemental warding is better than 3 points in convection, but improved ghost wolf is at best marginally useful, for maybe one endgame raid encounter. Those two points I think are better spent in almost any talent in the elemental tree.

    I did mention that it's personal preference and that imp nova totem offers some raid utility (better in this sense is quite objective as the spec already has the most effective talents and anything else is just flavour)

    Anyone wanting to raid elem can get a vague idea of their ideal rotation by having a shot on the training dummies - so many fights in ulduar require you to move or switch targets so you don't always have opportunities to stick to this ideal anyway.

    Elem rotations can often be based on haste and even encounters - to be a succesful elem the key is to always be casting and maximise number of lava bursts cast. Chain lightning does have it's place in many encounters.

    Louie on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I really enjoy chain lightning on Kologarn.

    captaink on
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    SkankPlayaSkankPlaya Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I burn through mana very quickly while healing, but I think that'll be solved by not eating through water shield and then not putting it back up again. What else could I do to conserve mana better until I get better gear?

    SkankPlaya on
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    CuntyCunty Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    it's bothering me not to answer the question, so i'll just get it over with

    it's actually Shamans, although i much prefer Shaman, Shamen, or even Shama

    pesky language

    Cunty on
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    RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    SkankPlaya wrote: »
    I burn through mana very quickly while healing, but I think that'll be solved by not eating through water shield and then not putting it back up again. What else could I do to conserve mana better until I get better gear?

    Unfortunately this is a big issue with shaman. Until you stack mp5, mana tide and water shield are your best friend. Even with a lot of mp5 you still lean on them quite a bit. The biggest thing is making sure your not using big heals when a small one will do. Make sure Earth Shield is up, and use healing stream if you can.

    RedDawn on
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    lifeincognitolifeincognito Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    SkankPlaya wrote: »
    I burn through mana very quickly while healing, but I think that'll be solved by not eating through water shield and then not putting it back up again. What else could I do to conserve mana better until I get better gear?

    Stack your spells together when you cast them and then wait. I like to use Healing Wave followed by Riptide if the tank seems to be tanking a turn for the worst. Then I sit and wait, poised to fire of Lesser Healing Wave if the tank needs more healing or if the dps seem to be having a rough go. I have also been cruel to pug dps in heroics where I will just give them a Riptide and forget about them if they get whacked to half health. Sure I could heal them up to full health, but I almost always have my Healing Stream Totem down so they'll regenerate health just fine.

    You could also Riptide the tank before a pull, early enough that you would regen the lost mana hopefully, just to get the HoT rolling early as you set up Totems and move into position. This gives you the Tidal Waves buff in case anything real nasty happens straight away too. But really you just want to try to maximize the time you don't have to heal to maybe a get a few seconds outside the 5 second rule.

    lifeincognito on
    losers weepers. jawas keepers.
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    RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Why do you use riptide after healing wave? I barely touch healing wave, but if I need to cast it i make sure I have the haste buff up when I do.

    RedDawn on
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    lifeincognitolifeincognito Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I pack Riptide on the back of many Healing Waves because I never cast my Healing Wave when it would over heal the tank, unless it were to critically hit. So I already have a pretty good chance of Riptide not over healing, but even if it does I have refreshed one or more HoTs on the tank and given myself a fresh timer on Tidal Waves. This works well in heroics, but not so well in Raids when I almost always have my Riptide on cool down. I like to pack all my healing into windows of time so that I can hopefully get a few regen ticks outside the 5 second rule.

    lifeincognito on
    losers weepers. jawas keepers.
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    RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hmm, I do the same, but now even 5 man buffed I have more than enough mp5 to not really worry.

    That is interesting with healing wave though, if I start using it I'll have to test out your method.

    RedDawn on
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    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Another thought is to tack an instant-cast on the end of a lengthy cast for FSR efficiency, since long casts trigger the FSR at the end.

    Seattle Thread on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So... anyone experienced the new totem bar yet? Is it good enough to replace totem add-ons? Or is it like some of the other mods integrated into the base UI that lack some key features of the originals (e.g., floating combat text, for some) or are clunkier to use (e.g., the equipment manager).

    Speaking of add-ons, I'm scared to log in tonight and see how broken everything is.

    forty on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I've never used addons before for shaman. I managed (not out of frustration, I managed because I was fine with things).

    The totem bar changes are bitchin'.

    Henroid on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    forty wrote: »
    So... anyone experienced the new totem bar yet? Is it good enough to replace totem add-ons? Or is it like some of the other mods integrated into the base UI that lack some key features of the originals (e.g., floating combat text, for some) or are clunkier to use (e.g., the equipment manager).

    Speaking of add-ons, I'm scared to log in tonight and see how broken everything is.

    It's a little clunky. Unlike totemtimers or Yata, you have to click to bring up the little mini menu, not just rollover. Other than that, no problems.

    captaink on
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    Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Each of the totem-drop abilities are spells. You can keybind that shit, yo.

    Seattle Thread on
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Makershot wrote: »
    Each of the totem-drop abilities are spells. You can keybind that shit, yo.

    Yeah, I kinda realized that, I'll have to set them in the spots my old YATA macros were. It'll be great. And I'll have to try to set a good button for the Totemic Recall... I just ran Heroic Gun'drak and Heroic Violet Hold, healing. I haven't played my Shaman in a while and thus haven't healed in a while, things were a little chaotic early on, but luckily Earth Shield is fuckawesome. Our server/group crashed *right* as we were trying to walk out of H VH. Pain in the ass because it was a great group and we were all up for more Heroics.

    Otherwise I do like the new totem bar system, it's pretty damn sweet not having to waste so many clicks/button presses to drop all the required totems. My Shaman's Resto gear is decent enough that I don't really have any mana problems during Heroics with a decent tank, so dropping and recalling an entire totem set every pull wasn't bad at all. I'm not sure if that changes at all or not at lesser gear levels, though my Shaman's gear isn't fantastic, just about Heroic level is all.

    Dranyth on
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    lifeincognitolifeincognito Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Makershot wrote: »
    Each of the totem-drop abilities are spells. You can keybind that shit, yo.

    I love the idea and they are quite bitchin', but I just wish I didn't have to stare at those wonky 5 buttons above my main cast bar on the default UI. I really wish there was a way to hide them on the default UI, much like stance bars or the druid bar, once I keybind and memorize them.

    Additionally, Healing Wave is now the love of my life.

    lifeincognito on
    losers weepers. jawas keepers.
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    DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Makershot wrote: »
    Each of the totem-drop abilities are spells. You can keybind that shit, yo.

    I love the idea and they are quite bitchin', but I just wish I didn't have to stare at those wonky 5 buttons above my main cast bar on the default UI. I really wish there was a way to hide them on the default UI, much like stance bars or the druid bar, once I keybind and memorize them.

    Additionally, Healing Wave is now the love of my life.

    Well I haven't tried exactly (and can't at the moment, fucking Cyclone battleground), but I use Bartender4 to move the Totem bar where I want, and normally Bartender lets you hide any bars you want as well.

    Dranyth on
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    LogicowLogicow Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Assuming I have tidal waves up at all times, what's the difference between Lesser Healing Wave and standard Healing wave?

    Since now they both have similar cast times, they pretty much do the same job.

    I'm assuming Lesser Healing Wave is more efficient, while Healing Wave heals more per second?

    Logicow on
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    mfroggmfrogg Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I thought the plural of Shaman was just Shaman.

    mfrogg on
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    CuntyCunty Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    mfrogg wrote: »
    I thought the plural of Shaman was just Shaman.


    http://www.wowwiki.com/Spelling_of_shaman

    it's shamans

    Cunty on
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    mfroggmfrogg Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    damn work filter -

    mfrogg on
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    lifeincognitolifeincognito Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Logicow wrote: »
    Assuming I have tidal waves up at all times, what's the difference between Lesser Healing Wave and standard Healing wave?

    Since now they both have similar cast times, they pretty much do the same job.

    I'm assuming Lesser Healing Wave is more efficient, while Healing Wave heals more per second?

    Short answer:
    Yes. It really depends on your play style and what kind of healing environment you are and your role. In a raid, you probably wouldn't want to spam LHW on the tank but healing a heroic with it and Riptide/Chain Heal would probably work very well.

    Long answer:
    So now that your Lesser Healing Wave is sitting mighty with 25% more crit it is the same speed as Healing Wave, almost. However, Healing Wave is going to give you 39.8, call it 40% of your mana back if you crit with it and have the improved shields talent I believe. Lesser Healing Wave will give you back the same amount, about 460 mana, but only triggers 60% of the time. I am sure we all know this, but it just helps get the math rolling.

    So given that you cast two heals while Tidal Waves is up and they are both very close in cast times how much does it really cost to cast them with Improved Water Shield?

    Healing Wave is easier because it triggers Improved WS on critical always. So the amount of mana you could see back is:

    920 * [ your crit chance with HW squared ] + 460 * [ 2 * your crit chance with HW * ( 1 - your crit chance with HW ) ]

    My shaman has 30 percent crit so I would get roughly 276 mana back if I casted two Healing Waves with TW up.

    If I instead cast Lesser Healing Wave twice the math adds an extra step, first how does my crit look with a bonus 25%:

    Both crit: [ (your crit chance + .25) squared ]
    One crits: [ 2 * (your crit chance + .25) * ( 1 - your crit chance plus .25 ) ]

    Then did IWS activate with its 60% chance on crit and how much mana do we see returned to us.

    920 * [ both crit ] * [ 0.36 ] + 420 * [ both crit ] * 2 * [ 0.24 ] + 420 * [ one crit ] * [ 0.60 ]

    This gives you how much mana you would get back on average from the two heals and for my shaman with 30 percent base crit, buffed to 55% with Tidal Waves up it would be 303.6 mana.

    I am pretty sure my numbers are fairly accurate so it would seem that more mana is conserved by casting two LHW spells. Yet there is one wrinkle in that a critical LHW probably only heals for as much as a non-critical HW. So while more mana is being conserved, by both casting a cheaper spell and getting more mana back, less healing is occurring on your target. Of course given the increased frequency of crits you are also raid healing like a pro with AA procs, which are small but still helpful in making LHW even more mana efficient.

    Of course Logicow summed up all this because LHW is more mana efficient in that it costs less to cast and returns more mana to you, but it heals for a whole lot less than HL. So really what you need to consider is that two LHW spells will only return 30 more mana on average and would heal a single target for an amount equivalent to two non-critical HW spells. What does this mean for us as healers? Nothing, both spells are pretty awesome and it depends on your play style and group composition. Still it really wouldn't be the best to try to keep a tank up with LHW spam, but linked with a glyphed CH and a strong string of crits and/or Tidal Force a Shaman could potentially heal 12 people in 5.5 seconds. Which is pretty awesome.

    lifeincognito on
    losers weepers. jawas keepers.
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    StorkStork Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    SkankPlaya wrote: »
    I burn through mana very quickly while healing, but I think that'll be solved by not eating through water shield and then not putting it back up again. What else could I do to conserve mana better until I get better gear?

    Stack your spells together when you cast them and then wait. I like to use Healing Wave followed by Riptide if the tank seems to be tanking a turn for the worst. Then I sit and wait, poised to fire of Lesser Healing Wave if the tank needs more healing or if the dps seem to be having a rough go. I have also been cruel to pug dps in heroics where I will just give them a Riptide and forget about them if they get whacked to half health. Sure I could heal them up to full health, but I almost always have my Healing Stream Totem down so they'll regenerate health just fine.

    You could also Riptide the tank before a pull, early enough that you would regen the lost mana hopefully, just to get the HoT rolling early as you set up Totems and move into position. This gives you the Tidal Waves buff in case anything real nasty happens straight away too. But really you just want to try to maximize the time you don't have to heal to maybe a get a few seconds outside the 5 second rule.

    I bolded that to call it out. mp/5 isn't affected by the 5 second rule and you should have so little spirit that this tactic is probably not very effective.

    Stork on
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    RedDawnRedDawn Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Logicow wrote: »
    Assuming I have tidal waves up at all times, what's the difference between Lesser Healing Wave and standard Healing wave?

    Since now they both have similar cast times, they pretty much do the same job.

    I'm assuming Lesser Healing Wave is more efficient, while Healing Wave heals more per second?

    Short answer:
    Yes. It really depends on your play style and what kind of healing environment you are and your role. In a raid, you probably wouldn't want to spam LHW on the tank but healing a heroic with it and Riptide/Chain Heal would probably work very well.

    Long answer:
    So now that your Lesser Healing Wave is sitting mighty with 25% more crit it is the same speed as Healing Wave, almost. However, Healing Wave is going to give you 39.8, call it 40% of your mana back if you crit with it and have the improved shields talent I believe. Lesser Healing Wave will give you back the same amount, about 460 mana, but only triggers 60% of the time. I am sure we all know this, but it just helps get the math rolling.

    So given that you cast two heals while Tidal Waves is up and they are both very close in cast times how much does it really cost to cast them with Improved Water Shield?

    Healing Wave is easier because it triggers Improved WS on critical always. So the amount of mana you could see back is:

    920 * [ your crit chance with HW squared ] + 460 * [ 2 * your crit chance with HW * ( 1 - your crit chance with HW ) ]

    My shaman has 30 percent crit so I would get roughly 276 mana back if I casted two Healing Waves with TW up.

    If I instead cast Lesser Healing Wave twice the math adds an extra step, first how does my crit look with a bonus 25%:

    Both crit: [ (your crit chance + .25) squared ]
    One crits: [ 2 * (your crit chance + .25) * ( 1 - your crit chance plus .25 ) ]

    Then did IWS activate with its 60% chance on crit and how much mana do we see returned to us.

    920 * [ both crit ] * [ 0.36 ] + 420 * [ both crit ] * 2 * [ 0.24 ] + 420 * [ one crit ] * [ 0.60 ]

    This gives you how much mana you would get back on average from the two heals and for my shaman with 30 percent base crit, buffed to 55% with Tidal Waves up it would be 303.6 mana.

    I am pretty sure my numbers are fairly accurate so it would seem that more mana is conserved by casting two LHW spells. Yet there is one wrinkle in that a critical LHW probably only heals for as much as a non-critical HW. So while more mana is being conserved, by both casting a cheaper spell and getting more mana back, less healing is occurring on your target. Of course given the increased frequency of crits you are also raid healing like a pro with AA procs, which are small but still helpful in making LHW even more mana efficient.

    Of course Logicow summed up all this because LHW is more mana efficient in that it costs less to cast and returns more mana to you, but it heals for a whole lot less than HL. So really what you need to consider is that two LHW spells will only return 30 more mana on average and would heal a single target for an amount equivalent to two non-critical HW spells. What does this mean for us as healers? Nothing, both spells are pretty awesome and it depends on your play style and group composition. Still it really wouldn't be the best to try to keep a tank up with LHW spam, but linked with a glyphed CH and a strong string of crits and/or Tidal Force a Shaman could potentially heal 12 people in 5.5 seconds. Which is pretty awesome.


    I can't say I'm a big fan of the LHW changes, but whatever what is done is done. I don't find my self using LHW or HW because Chain heal is so nice now. My advice, just cast chain heal now and don't worry about it.

    RedDawn on
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    lifeincognitolifeincognito Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Stork wrote: »
    SkankPlaya wrote: »
    I burn through mana very quickly while healing, but I think that'll be solved by not eating through water shield and then not putting it back up again. What else could I do to conserve mana better until I get better gear?

    Stack your spells together when you cast them and then wait. I like to use Healing Wave followed by Riptide if the tank seems to be tanking a turn for the worst. Then I sit and wait, poised to fire of Lesser Healing Wave if the tank needs more healing or if the dps seem to be having a rough go. I have also been cruel to pug dps in heroics where I will just give them a Riptide and forget about them if they get whacked to half health. Sure I could heal them up to full health, but I almost always have my Healing Stream Totem down so they'll regenerate health just fine.

    You could also Riptide the tank before a pull, early enough that you would regen the lost mana hopefully, just to get the HoT rolling early as you set up Totems and move into position. This gives you the Tidal Waves buff in case anything real nasty happens straight away too. But really you just want to try to maximize the time you don't have to heal to maybe a get a few seconds outside the 5 second rule.

    I bolded that to call it out. mp/5 isn't affected by the 5 second rule and you should have so little spirit that this tactic is probably not very effective.

    Yeah I realize it is not as much as a Druid or Priest would regen, heck my shaman only gets an additional 16 mana per second outside the FSR. Yet my tactic is more mana efficient than the difference between the regen provided through IWS by casting two LHW over two HW. That 30 mana over the two 3 second casts is only 10 mana a second save, compared to my shaman's 16 per second. I tend to cast HW more than LHW and with Pitbull's little FSR meter I can generally time my casts to hide that second outside the FSR within the spells cast time.

    So it suits but my style, but I must concede to Stork that no shaman would really see this helping them much over a 6 minute boss fight. This is just a really odd quirk I've taken into my play style.

    lifeincognito on
    losers weepers. jawas keepers.
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hey guys, the new totem buttons Blizzard put in. I just found out if you hold alt and mouse over them, the lists will pop up. Saves a bunch of trouble in clicking up and down the buttons.

    Henroid on
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    EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So my wife just made a new shaman, and wants me to make a character to play with it. She's pretty set on going elemental. We won't be able to get any heirloom gear for these characters cause it's a new server to us we're playing on since our guild exploded on our old server. I've been trying to think of a good combo to go with an elemental shaman, and have been leaning towards going with another caster. Here are some of my thoughts:

    2nd elemental shaman - seem to tear shit up pretty fast, and both in this case can heal and or rez if needed. But, there will probably be a lot of wasted totem usage for most of the leveling process.

    mage - free food and water for both, as well as ports later on, strong in single target and ae, but not a whole lot to add to the combo other than extra dps.

    shadowpriest - don't know shit about them but they seem to be dot centric, which seems like a bad combo with a shaman who seems to be fairly bursty.

    warlock - also dot centric, but they seem to be a decent choice, with destro being a powerhouse single target spec, or could spec for pets and go the pet tank route, or even affliction, and go the drain tank route. able to stack shaman self res and soulstone on the shaman, so really unless we're doing something stupid we should never be with both of them on cooldown. also health stones are always nice.

    boomkin - seems like a great choice, except I've already got one, who's too high leveled to join up with the shaman for leveling. So that's out.


    So do you guys know of any combinations that work great with an elemental shaman? I'm leaning towards warlock, but will consider others.

    EWom on
    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Any of those will work. Shadow priests aren't terribly dot-centric like you think. They can always just mindblast/mindflay easy stuff.

    captaink on
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    LogicowLogicow Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Can I suggest a class that can tank? That way you can always complete any 5-man group in need of healing / tanking.

    Logicow on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Yeah, I meant suggest that but I forgot.

    captaink on
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    EWomEWom Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So.. a warrior?

    EWom on
    Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Anything that can tank, whatever you like.

    captaink on
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    SenshiSenshi BALLING OUT OF CONTROL WavefrontRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I'd say a Warrior, Mage, or an enhancement Shaman. Enhancement can "tank" for the two of you quite well, has some excellent survivability later on, and is generally a good way to level (you'll easily be able to solo many quests, not to mention duo with another shammy).

    Senshi on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Paladin. I never get tired over how good a combo paladins and shaman are.

    Henroid on
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    ToldoToldo But actually, WeegianRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So bored with leveling my 78 shaman, and then a friend casually mentioned XP from BGs. Half a level to go until 80!

    Toldo on
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    LogicowLogicow Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Toldo wrote: »
    So bored with leveling my 78 shaman, and then a friend casually mentioned XP from BGs. Half a level to go until 80!

    My druid went from 74 to 79 exclusively in Alterac Valley, with an average of around 6 hours played per level.

    Logicow on
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