The assumption that nature damage will not be a large portion of your damage is one that assumes they wont tweak numbers.
I cant really see how either, but thats because we dont know what they are tweaking yet.
Unless they change windfury to deal nature damage, it's really not going to happen. And even then I'm not sure that would be enough.
Arkady on
LoL: failboattootoot
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
Or they increase lightning bolt and earth shock a ton.
Or nerf haste enough that it doesn't benefit you nearly as much, making even the small portion of nature damage compare to it.
Hell they could even goes balls nuts on lightning shield damage, make the static whatever talent ppm and not benefit from haste, thus creating a new significant source of nature damage.
It appears their goal is to make taking mastery basically shift you from using lava burst and flame shock, to lightning bolt and more earth shock.
Possibly they might even give some talented ability to reduce the cd of ES, heavilly upping its basis on your damage.
Or they increase lightning bolt and earth shock a ton.
Or nerf haste enough that it doesn't benefit you nearly as much, making even the small portion of nature damage compare to it.
Hell they could even goes balls nuts on lightning shield damage, make the static whatever talent ppm and not benefit from haste, thus creating a new significant source of nature damage.
It appears their goal is to make taking mastery basically shift you from using lava burst and flame shock, to lightning bolt and more earth shock.
Possibly they might even give some talented ability to reduce the cd of ES, heavilly upping its basis on your damage.
Nerfing haste would still leave crit, hit, and expertise, all of which will be more important than a stat that affects 3 abilities.
Yes, they could add a bunch of nature abilities. Then they could have fun watching everyone bail on ehancement as it is already convoluted enough as it is without a slew of new abilities thrust into our rotation solely to make a shitty mastery worth a damn.
Yes, they could buff lightning bolt, earth shock and static shock to obscene levels. But this is straight up not happening. They would have to be buffed to the point where they (and any other nature abilities we get) were dealing over 50% of our total damage. This is basically not possible due to the way AP scales with dw, making it incredibly unlikely that anything will ever overtake our white hits. They would have to more than double the damage our nature spells do. Do you really see that happening?
The nature damage bonus will probably end up being fairly sizeable exactly because it only affects so few spells.
It would have to be really, really sizeable and it would lead to us having some ridiculous burst if it actually was to the point where mastery was worth gearing for. Again, look at armor pen in the current game. It affects around 50% of our damage, scales ridiculously well, and is still complete and utter garbage for us.
Arkady on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
I'd imagine mastery won't be all that important stat for all specs, but rather a "eh, mastery, well okay then" stat.
I mean, I know they're trying to make it important and all, but probably not gonna happen. I predict some sort of "starts out meh, goes super insane, nerfed" arc like there was with ArPen.
reVerse on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
Look, weather you see it happening or not is really irrelevant. Its just kinda silly goosery to make assumptions off of an incomplete preview of thinga based on what you know now. It could really be a waste, but we can't make that judgement YET. Period.
Also, they already stated the main stats you will be choosing between are basically haste, crit, and mastery. As far as playstyle goes. Crit would (most likely will) be nerfed equally to haste.
We just don't know enough yet to make proper judgements.
Well, armor pen also has backloaded scaling. You know, the closer you get to cap, the better each point becomes. Haste, crit, and nature-boosting mastery should all be of the "each point boosts your damage by about the same amount no matter how much you have" variety, which are automatically easier to balance around. Especially if they decide to make haste and crit conversion formulas class-specific, I could see them getting things close. I'm not sure if they'll go that far, though. And, yes, technically haste conversion is class specific right now, but there are only two different settings for it, so it's not really there yet.
Well, armor pen also has backloaded scaling. You know, the closer you get to cap, the better each point becomes. Haste, crit, and nature-boosting mastery should all be of the "each point boosts your damage by about the same amount no matter how much you have" variety, which are automatically easier to balance around. Especially if they decide to make haste and crit conversion formulas class-specific, I could see them getting things close. I'm not sure if they'll go that far, though. And, yes, technically haste conversion is class specific right now, but there are only two different settings for it, so it's not really there yet.
I don't think they are planning on making haste and crit conversion formulas class-specific. I do think they are doing their absolute best to ensure crit and haste affect all classes in a reasonable manner so they want the stats unlike now. Things like damage over time spells being automatically affected by haste and crit and such.
I know they're trying, but haste is going to have to take a pretty big relative nerf not to be the clear frontrunner for enhancement. Even now in 3.3.3, crit affects all of an enhancement shaman's damage (as far as I know), and it's still well below haste.
They can help alleviate that issue by playing with crit damage % and balancing things so that hybrid melee don't get 30% more effective haste compared to non-hybrid melee.
Look, weather you see it happening or not is really irrelevant. Its just kinda silly goosery to make assumptions off of an incomplete preview of thinga based on what you know now. It could really be a waste, but we can't make that judgement YET. Period.
Also, they already stated the main stats you will be choosing between are basically haste, crit, and mastery. As far as playstyle goes. Crit would (most likely will) be nerfed equally to haste.
We just don't know enough yet to make proper judgements.
No, it isn't. The crap you are suggesting they could do to make mastery good for us is utterly outlandish and show a complete and fundamental lack of understanding of enhancement shaman dps. They aren't going to give us a bunch of new nature based abilities, we don't have room in the damn queue for them. They aren't going to nerf haste and crit completely into the ground just to make one mastery useful at the expense of every other class. They aren't going to buff our current nature damage spells to deal approximately 100% more damage which is what it would take to make our mastery a useful stat, not when one of their stated goals for the game is less burst damage.
They might make it scale at an absurd rate, but that bumps into the same burst damage problem. I find it far more likely that it will be changed to just a flat spell damage increase before the end of testing.
they might also make the degree to which mastery scales with each class/spec unique so that they can balance it better if it's a lot better/worse for one class/spec compared to another
so it might be like : each point of mastery gives you a hojillion% more nature damage or something
Man that new shaman pulsing AE HoT sounds a lot like a way better version of Tranquility. I hope druid healins get some love. I would really like to have a better tank heal than nourish, which depends on me not casting nourish to make it effective (keeping all my hots up on the tank, to make sure my nourish is worth casting)
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
They will almost assuredly give you that. They want every healer to have (in terms of direct heals) a fast heal, an efficient heal, and a big heal. Right now druids have #1 and #3, but lack #2.
Dehumanized on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited April 2010
Mastery sounds like an excellent way to tweak balance for late-game. I rather like it.
Stoked for cataclysm now, I just have to decide which character I want to main (SHAMAN OR WARRIOR I JUST DON'T KNOW)
Senshi on
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
I know of everything I have seen so far Shaman is by far the most interesting to me. Between my warrior and shaman its no contest.
But I plan to level a hunter come expansion and im trying to level a druid now, so thier changes coming today will have a huge impact on that choice I guess.
But fuck ever healing on something other than a Shaman. If I wanna heal shit its on that char, I wont even give my druid a healing spec unless they really change a ton of junk.
Mastery sounds like an excellent way to tweak balance for late-game. I rather like it.
Stoked for cataclysm now, I just have to decide which character I want to main (SHAMAN OR WARRIOR I JUST DON'T KNOW)
I am in this same boat until they announce the bear changes.
815165 on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
Updated the OP (oh shit!), but at the moment the only accuracy in it is the Cataclysm preview that has come about. All the other shit is outdated and if you guys want, you can PM me whatever links would be relevant to replace those outdated things.
It depends on how they distribute the 1-60 skills, as they are right now Elemental is super boring until level 75.
815165 on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
I have a feeling that, come Cata, all the specs are going to be viable means of leveling. I think for the most part, even though elemental may be boring, it'll at least be better supported with gear in the early levels.
they might also make the degree to which mastery scales with each class/spec unique so that they can balance it better if it's a lot better/worse for one class/spec compared to another
Might? Uh, this is exactly what they're going to do and it's part of how they can tweak numbers as the meta-game develops to shore up problems.
But this is only going to be useful if both haste and crit are set up to be of similar value for each class.
I have a feeling that, come Cata, all the specs are going to be viable means of leveling. I think for the most part, even though elemental may be boring, it'll at least be better supported with gear in the early levels.
Elemental has been "viable" for leveling since they added low level water shield ranks. I really don't envision Cataclysm changing much about the elemental leveling experience except adding more pre-Outland SP gear.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
I forgot about that water shield change (I even fucking used it to level a dude). Still went enhancement, it helped a lot there.
I could see them lowering lava burst's level requirement. With primal strike for enhancement shamans I think they might have something else up their sleeves for elemental levelling -- maybe not anything as fundamental though. Low-level talents, perhaps.
Talents will change, sure, but "Enhancement" shamans literally have nothing to do in melee but shock or fiddle with totems until 40. At least elemental shamans have their nuke right away, even if it's almost all you're doing damage with for 70+ levels. And elemental can get fancier than that if they want by aggroing multiple mobs, using CL, frost shocking to kite/buy time, etc. This is why I don't see elemental changing much. Hopefully Blizzard surprises me.
Hey folks. so my baby shaman I've been leveling slowly with my buddies has hit 60, and I decided to buy him a Resto alt-spec. I'm having a blast healing dungeons and BGs so far, but wondering if you guys have any suggestions on addons to make it easier? I've only played a Warlock really so far, so my addons are all geared around a DPS character. I downloaded HealBot this afternoon but am not sure how to set it up properly or how to use it just yet. Thanks in advance!
Elessar Elfstone on
Tobias: Or it could be your colon. I'd want to get in there and find some answers.
Hey folks. so my baby shaman I've been leveling slowly with my buddies has hit 60, and I decided to buy him a Resto alt-spec. I'm having a blast healing dungeons and BGs so far, but wondering if you guys have any suggestions on addons to make it easier? I've only played a Warlock really so far, so my addons are all geared around a DPS character. I downloaded HealBot this afternoon but am not sure how to set it up properly or how to use it just yet. Thanks in advance!
I like ShieldsUp when I'm healing to know where I'm at with Earth Shield, that's about it apart from Grid, but you already have Healbot so Grid isn't needed.
Woo, time to do some dailies and earn some badges. ICC awaits.
I figure this would be the smarter place to ask - any opinions on what I should be aiming for gear-wise? I'm primarily an Ele DPS machine but could certainly use some dedicated healing gear on the side.
You don't use elemental focus. Improved shields is a better place to put that point. Glyphs are flame shock/feral spirit/stormstrike.
JAEF on
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GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited April 2010
That enhancement build is good. I'm not up to date on which mana talent is the best nowadays, I'd have said that Elemental Focus was better than Shamanistic Focus, but the difference shouldn't be that big anyway.
Posts
Unless they change windfury to deal nature damage, it's really not going to happen. And even then I'm not sure that would be enough.
LoL: failboattootoot
Or nerf haste enough that it doesn't benefit you nearly as much, making even the small portion of nature damage compare to it.
Hell they could even goes balls nuts on lightning shield damage, make the static whatever talent ppm and not benefit from haste, thus creating a new significant source of nature damage.
It appears their goal is to make taking mastery basically shift you from using lava burst and flame shock, to lightning bolt and more earth shock.
Possibly they might even give some talented ability to reduce the cd of ES, heavilly upping its basis on your damage.
Nerfing haste would still leave crit, hit, and expertise, all of which will be more important than a stat that affects 3 abilities.
Yes, they could add a bunch of nature abilities. Then they could have fun watching everyone bail on ehancement as it is already convoluted enough as it is without a slew of new abilities thrust into our rotation solely to make a shitty mastery worth a damn.
Yes, they could buff lightning bolt, earth shock and static shock to obscene levels. But this is straight up not happening. They would have to be buffed to the point where they (and any other nature abilities we get) were dealing over 50% of our total damage. This is basically not possible due to the way AP scales with dw, making it incredibly unlikely that anything will ever overtake our white hits. They would have to more than double the damage our nature spells do. Do you really see that happening?
LoL: failboattootoot
the tertiary mastery bonus is the only one that is affected by the mastery stat
It would have to be really, really sizeable and it would lead to us having some ridiculous burst if it actually was to the point where mastery was worth gearing for. Again, look at armor pen in the current game. It affects around 50% of our damage, scales ridiculously well, and is still complete and utter garbage for us.
LoL: failboattootoot
I mean, I know they're trying to make it important and all, but probably not gonna happen. I predict some sort of "starts out meh, goes super insane, nerfed" arc like there was with ArPen.
Also, they already stated the main stats you will be choosing between are basically haste, crit, and mastery. As far as playstyle goes. Crit would (most likely will) be nerfed equally to haste.
We just don't know enough yet to make proper judgements.
I don't think they are planning on making haste and crit conversion formulas class-specific. I do think they are doing their absolute best to ensure crit and haste affect all classes in a reasonable manner so they want the stats unlike now. Things like damage over time spells being automatically affected by haste and crit and such.
No, it isn't. The crap you are suggesting they could do to make mastery good for us is utterly outlandish and show a complete and fundamental lack of understanding of enhancement shaman dps. They aren't going to give us a bunch of new nature based abilities, we don't have room in the damn queue for them. They aren't going to nerf haste and crit completely into the ground just to make one mastery useful at the expense of every other class. They aren't going to buff our current nature damage spells to deal approximately 100% more damage which is what it would take to make our mastery a useful stat, not when one of their stated goals for the game is less burst damage.
They might make it scale at an absurd rate, but that bumps into the same burst damage problem. I find it far more likely that it will be changed to just a flat spell damage increase before the end of testing.
LoL: failboattootoot
so it might be like : each point of mastery gives you a hojillion% more nature damage or something
Stoked for cataclysm now, I just have to decide which character I want to main (SHAMAN OR WARRIOR I JUST DON'T KNOW)
But I plan to level a hunter come expansion and im trying to level a druid now, so thier changes coming today will have a huge impact on that choice I guess.
But fuck ever healing on something other than a Shaman. If I wanna heal shit its on that char, I wont even give my druid a healing spec unless they really change a ton of junk.
For now, joy at a low-level enhancement ability.
When Cataclysm hits, I want to level a new character to see all the new content.
Would it be dumb to level a elemental shaman?
But this is only going to be useful if both haste and crit are set up to be of similar value for each class.
Forsake, Warlock of Stonemaul
I figure this would be the smarter place to ask - any opinions on what I should be aiming for gear-wise? I'm primarily an Ele DPS machine but could certainly use some dedicated healing gear on the side.
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