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It was a trap! X-Wing/TIE Fighter info not coming soon?
Granted, not all of them are necessary, but it's still a gripload to map onto a controller. :P
It's not like there havent been flight/space sims on console before.
Things like flight recorder can be handled much better in a Halo 3 style theater option than they were were in TIE Fighter, but even then, it's going to be tricky.
The end result would probably be something like X-Wing: Rogue Squadron and its sequels--though I do think the Xbox 360, for example, has 2 additional buttons (as well as clicking thumbsticks) than the NGC controller had, which will allow a slightly added degree of complexity. Worse comes to worse, energy distribution can be mapped after hitting 'back', though that would be a problem in multiplayer (not a bad one if you can set it up efficiently and quickly). Squadron controls are going to suffer the most, I expect--then again, the friendly AI in TIE Fighter and X-Wing was usually pretty damn stupid.
But yes, it's going to be a lot like Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader--except you'll be a TIE Interceptor pilot, and you'll shoot up unending wings of X-Wings, A-Wings, etc., and blow up large Rebel ships instead of Imperial ones. Then again, both those games were among my favorite NGC games...so I wouldn't be complaining, so long as they remember how fire links for TIE fighters (both top, both bottom, not across). It's the little things....
But yes, it's going to be a lot like Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader...
Ugh... I played RS2 a couple weeks ago, and felt the controls were terrible. Maybe it was better eight years ago.
Part of me thinks I would feel the exact same way if I played it now. 4 years ago, I knew people who owned Gamecubes, and while the weirdo controller was a bit odd in my hands, it was definitely usable.
A few weeks ago, I was [strike]tricked into[/strike] convinced to join in a round of SSBM, and I realized just how unpleasant the thing is to hold. I don't know if my hands have grown in the same time, but I swear, that thing is not intended for human hands. Simply put, I've become used to the layout of the DS3/Xbox 360 controller.
Of course, actual gameplay controls are a very different matter than ergonomics. But it doesn't help.
Really? I always found nintendo's controllers to be the most ergonomic. I can't use the 360 controller's face buttons for more than 2 hours without my hand cramping up.
But yes, it's going to be a lot like Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader...
Ugh... I played RS2 a couple weeks ago, and felt the controls were terrible. Maybe it was better eight years ago.
Part of me thinks I would feel the exact same way if I played it now. 4 years ago, I knew people who owned Gamecubes, and while the weirdo controller was a bit odd in my hands, it was definitely usable.
For me, it wasn't an issue of ergonomics, but of responsiveness and sensitivity. I played Star Wars space combat games using a joystick for seven or eight years; the transition from joystick to thumbstick wasn't as smooth as I had thought it would be.
I also felt really removed from the combat. Without my two radar widgets, I couldn't visualize where enemy ships were. Without a map, I lost battlefield awareness. I couldn't use the in-cockpit view, because I felt like I needed the extra view area due to the lost combat awareness (it also pulls out into an awkward "you've got a bogey on your six!" automatically). I also found the roll function confusing.
I gave up on like third or fourth mission. Which sucked, because I really wanted to like that game.
I can relate. While I did enjoy Rogue Squadron 3D on PC (had to track down new drivers for my Diamond GPU to actually get ships to show up!), it was a case of chronic "Darn you newfangled consoles and your changed mechanics! Get off my lawn!". And it was a big step down from TIE Fighter.
Really? I always found nintendo's controllers to be the most ergonomic. I can't use the 360 controller's face buttons for more than 2 hours without my hand cramping up.
That just confirms how radically different they are. Honestly, I have no idea who came up with the Gamecube's controller, but I'm fairly certain it was intended for someone with short, stubby fingers. And possible fewer than ten. The thing is just so counter-intuitive to me I can't help but shake my head at it now. I end up touching my own hands more than the controller whenever I use one.
Add to that the button placement...really, the only thing I can think of that was good about that controller, and not just merely 'okay' or flat out bad, were the triggers.
It's not the worse controller I've ever held, but it's definitely an F/D- grade for me.
is in the game or TV series, I will love them both.
The namesake character for the only group of Star Wars books that, to my knowledge, don't suck in terms of writing? Fuck. Yes.
Unfortunately, I don't think American TV audiences want a non-movie character taking the spotlight from their [strike]space Evangelicals with mind control[/strike] usual Jedi. Perhaps as an antagonist, but even then, I don't see it happening. Maybe it's for the better. I mean, I personally think that'd be almost as awesome as a young Billy D. Williams, and it wouldn't require a time-machine either.
I could see him being briefly mentioned in a game. Very briefly.
Before all you people vastly more familiar with Star Wars than myself get your panties in a twist, I will acknowledge that I'm basing my judgment on the handful of SW books I have read. And if you've read all of them, please seek help. Immediately.
The namesake character for the only group of Star Wars books that, to my knowledge, don't suck in terms of writing? Fuck. Yes.
Unfortunately, I don't think American TV audiences want a non-movie character taking the spotlight from their [strike]space Evangelicals with mind control[/strike] usual Jedi. Perhaps as an antagonist, but even then, I don't see it happening. Maybe it's for the better. I mean, I personally think that'd be almost as awesome as a young Billy D. Williams, and it wouldn't require a time-machine either.
I could see him being briefly mentioned in a game. Very briefly.
Before all you people vastly more familiar with Star Wars than myself get your panties in a twist, I will acknowledge that I'm basing my judgment on the handful of SW books I have read. And if you've read all of them, please seek help. Immediately.
Just a suggestion, but look up Michael A. Stackpole's Star Wars books. He actually cowrote a pair of books with Zahn too.
If you're a fan of the X-Wing/TIE series, and of Star Wars, the X-wing rogue squadron series (at least the Bacta War part) is some of the most brilliant writing in the expanded universe.
I don't know how good or bad any later books were as I haven't kept up in years.
The namesake character for the only group of Star Wars books that, to my knowledge, don't suck in terms of writing? Fuck. Yes.
Unfortunately, I don't think American TV audiences want a non-movie character taking the spotlight from their [strike]space Evangelicals with mind control[/strike] usual Jedi. Perhaps as an antagonist, but even then, I don't see it happening. Maybe it's for the better. I mean, I personally think that'd be almost as awesome as a young Billy D. Williams, and it wouldn't require a time-machine either.
I could see him being briefly mentioned in a game. Very briefly.
Before all you people vastly more familiar with Star Wars than myself get your panties in a twist, I will acknowledge that I'm basing my judgment on the handful of SW books I have read. And if you've read all of them, please seek help. Immediately.
Just a suggestion, but look up Michael A. Stackpole's Star Wars books. He actually cowrote a pair of books with Zahn too.
If you're a fan of the X-Wing/TIE series, and of Star Wars, the X-wing rogue squadron series (at least the Bacta War part) is some of the most brilliant writing in the expanded universe.
I don't know how good or bad any later books were as I haven't kept up in years.
I read a couple of his books (including some of the X-Wing ones), years ago--in part because Stackpole is one of the few MechWarrior/Battletech writers who doesn't completely suck either. :?
Also one or two by Kevin J. Anderson. Again, it's not as though even the original Star Wars sets the bar really high when it comes to quality of writing. And this is hard for me to say, because normally I'm basically the anti-snob when it comes to reading anything--so long as it isn't filled with grammatical errors, I'm pretty pleased.
I still have my old Tie Fighter and X-Wing Collectors CDROM editions. Just wish I could get them to run in Vista. Got it on to work on XP awhile ago but could only get it to run in the 320x240 resolution.
The namesake character for the only group of Star Wars books that, to my knowledge, don't suck in terms of writing? Fuck. Yes.
Unfortunately, I don't think American TV audiences want a non-movie character taking the spotlight from their [strike]space Evangelicals with mind control[/strike] usual Jedi. Perhaps as an antagonist, but even then, I don't see it happening. Maybe it's for the better. I mean, I personally think that'd be almost as awesome as a young Billy D. Williams, and it wouldn't require a time-machine either.
I could see him being briefly mentioned in a game. Very briefly.
Before all you people vastly more familiar with Star Wars than myself get your panties in a twist, I will acknowledge that I'm basing my judgment on the handful of SW books I have read. And if you've read all of them, please seek help. Immediately.
Just a suggestion, but look up Michael A. Stackpole's Star Wars books. He actually cowrote a pair of books with Zahn too.
If you're a fan of the X-Wing/TIE series, and of Star Wars, the X-wing rogue squadron series (at least the Bacta War part) is some of the most brilliant writing in the expanded universe.
I don't know how good or bad any later books were as I haven't kept up in years.
I read a couple of his books (including some of the X-Wing ones), years ago--in part because Stackpole is one of the few MechWarrior/Battletech writers who doesn't completely suck either. :?
Also one or two by Kevin J. Anderson. Again, it's not as though even the original Star Wars sets the bar really high when it comes to quality of writing. And this is hard for me to say, because normally I'm basically the anti-snob when it comes to reading anything--so long as it isn't filled with grammatical errors, I'm pretty pleased.
Go read Matt Stover's Star Wars work. And I can call it work because after reading it even Zahn(Thrawn series) seems terribly cliche and trite.
The book "Traitor" from the NJO is probably the single best EU book.
I don't see how this could be a console release. You HAVE to have a keyboard. It doesn't work without one..
Why not?
The controls were really simple.
Sure, the basic flight controls were. But things like using the F keys to toggle recharge rates, etc, would have to be remapped. And there's just not enough buttons to replicate the PC experience. Compromises in would have to be made.
You all seem to have missed my earlier post about this. I actually re-played TIE fighter just two years ago on my PC. The only controller I had around was my 360 controller, so that's what I used. It worked fine.
The key was full utilization of the dpad, and figuring out which controls could be left out. With a few UI tweaks, it would be flawless.
I don't see how this could be a console release. You HAVE to have a keyboard. It doesn't work without one..
Why not?
The controls were really simple.
Sure, the basic flight controls were. But things like using the F keys to toggle recharge rates, etc, would have to be remapped. And there's just not enough buttons to replicate the PC experience. Compromises in would have to be made.
You all seem to have missed my earlier post about this. I actually re-played TIE fighter just two years ago on my PC. The only controller I had around was my 360 controller, so that's what I used. It worked fine.
The key was full utilization of the dpad, and figuring out which controls could be left out. With a few UI tweaks, it would be flawless.
No, I saw that. But even you admit that you had to leave controls out. I've no doubt that they can come up with a suitable control scheme, but it's going to be hugely compromised from using a keyboard. I just can't imagine playing TIE Fighter without the keyboard. Whatever they come up with will be a different animal altogether. Not saying it can't be good. But it won't be TIE Fighter.
Cameron_Talley on
Switch Friend Code: SW-4598-4278-8875
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I don't see how this could be a console release. You HAVE to have a keyboard. It doesn't work without one..
Why not?
The controls were really simple.
Sure, the basic flight controls were. But things like using the F keys to toggle recharge rates, etc, would have to be remapped. And there's just not enough buttons to replicate the PC experience. Compromises in would have to be made.
You all seem to have missed my earlier post about this. I actually re-played TIE fighter just two years ago on my PC. The only controller I had around was my 360 controller, so that's what I used. It worked fine.
The key was full utilization of the dpad, and figuring out which controls could be left out. With a few UI tweaks, it would be flawless.
No, I saw that. But even you admit that you had to leave controls out. I've no doubt that they can come up with a suitable control scheme, but it's going to be hugely compromised from using a keyboard. I just can't imagine playing TIE Fighter without the keyboard. Whatever they come up with will be a different animal altogether. Not saying it can't be good. But it won't be TIE Fighter.
I think you're missing my point. I've played the game using a 360 controller, and it wasn't a different animal. It's very do-able, and I know because I did it.
The things that were lacking in my implementation of the controls would be easily fixed by having the game designed around the controller. For example, I left out wingman commands. But it would be easy to put those all in a one-button radial menu, or even as Endwar-style voice commands.
Also, the game didn't support using the triggers for the throttle very well, but with better support for a trigger then you don't need 7 different buttons to manage your throttle.
Remember, if you use the dpad as buttons, there are two analog sticks, two analog triggers, and 18 digital buttons on a 360 controller. That's a lot, and with a well-designed UI the controller shouldn't be a reason to sacrifice complexity.
i think most people are hoping its NOT on a console. atleast i am
TK-42-1 on
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
This isn't about whether or not this is going to be a console release more than the nature of modern game design dictating that a game be "accessible" to the lowest common, mass market denominator. Your average schmoe isn't going to want to learn all the functions and keys and power distribution mechanics of a Star Wars space sim, even negating that they're quite low-impact compared to the really hardcore simulations. They want to go pew-pew-pew and blow up lots of shit, not get stuck on the second fucking X-Wing mission. Ask oldschool Rainbow Six fans about this phenomenon sometime.
This trend is irrespective of the platform it comes on, although you can argue whether or not the increasing popularity of console systems has any correlation with it. I'm not gonna touch that morass with a thirty foot pole.
Of course, this means nothing if this supposed announcement turns out to be a Steam re-release or something, which it all well could be considering the recent trend of LucasArts re-releases of old games on DD services.
Zxerol on
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
Huh, actually.
I'd love to see TIE fighter get yet another graphics facelift a la the Collector's Edition.
As for the controller argument, unlike Mechwarrior, I'm not quite as confident that everything can fit onto a controller without dropping features, or at least relegating them to a pause menu of some sort.
That said, whenever someone trots out the "there's so many individual controls!" argument, I'm tempted to ask what fraction of them they actually use in the course of normal gameplay, and how many of them actually need to exist as such. (I'm looking in your direction, Inspect Target.)
I used to play TIE Fighter and X-Wing with a Gravis Gamepad. One D-Pad, 4 face buttons.
I'd use that alongside a keyboard for certain operations -- mostly throttle and target acquisition, but I could see getting most of the important functions onto a modern 10+ button, d-pad, and 2 analog stick controller if you were willing to consolidate some of the controls.
For example, instead of having seperate controls for:
0% throttle
33% throttle
66% throttle
full throttle
+throttle
-throttle
match acceleration with target
you could probably consolidate most of that onto two buttons, possibly just handled with a single analog stick and having a click represent match acceleration with target.
Dehumanized on
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
I'm mostly referring to power and shield management, the actual flight controls aren't really in question here.
The namesake character for the only group of Star Wars books that, to my knowledge, don't suck in terms of writing? Fuck. Yes.
Unfortunately, I don't think American TV audiences want a non-movie character taking the spotlight from their [strike]space Evangelicals with mind control[/strike] usual Jedi. Perhaps as an antagonist, but even then, I don't see it happening. Maybe it's for the better. I mean, I personally think that'd be almost as awesome as a young Billy D. Williams, and it wouldn't require a time-machine either.
I could see him being briefly mentioned in a game. Very briefly.
Before all you people vastly more familiar with Star Wars than myself get your panties in a twist, I will acknowledge that I'm basing my judgment on the handful of SW books I have read. And if you've read all of them, please seek help. Immediately.
Just a suggestion, but look up Michael A. Stackpole's Star Wars books. He actually cowrote a pair of books with Zahn too.
If you're a fan of the X-Wing/TIE series, and of Star Wars, the X-wing rogue squadron series (at least the Bacta War part) is some of the most brilliant writing in the expanded universe.
I don't know how good or bad any later books were as I haven't kept up in years.
I read a couple of his books (including some of the X-Wing ones), years ago--in part because Stackpole is one of the few MechWarrior/Battletech writers who doesn't completely suck either. :?
Also one or two by Kevin J. Anderson. Again, it's not as though even the original Star Wars sets the bar really high when it comes to quality of writing. And this is hard for me to say, because normally I'm basically the anti-snob when it comes to reading anything--so long as it isn't filled with grammatical errors, I'm pretty pleased.
Go read Matt Stover's Star Wars work. And I can call it work because after reading it even Zahn(Thrawn series) seems terribly cliche and trite.
The book "Traitor" from the NJO is probably the single best EU book.
Truth be told, I'm not that much into the Star Wars books. And the actual NJO stuff that I had read struck me as incredibly boring--"Jacen and Jaino's Excellent Advnture". But that's just a matter of taste--plus, it was only the first book, so it could have changed. I might just be approaching it from the wrong mindset. I basically grabbed it from a library after having finished Vision of the Future.
To those curious about a 360 controller being used in a TIE game, check out Project: Sylpheed.
While there were things missing (Power management being the obvious one), most of the controls for a space sim game were easily handled.
That stated...I'd prefer a PC release with keyboard and flight stick controls. I think that any console release would follow the Jedi Starfighter or Rogue Squadron style of games...which while fine, aren't motherfraking TIE Fighter.
Hey, remember when they announced a new Wing Commander and people were like "yay!" which very quickly turned into when they read a little further and saw it was Wing Commander Arena?
Good times.
Exactly. This is why I can't get overly excited about this announcement. You can always count on these companies to take what we want, and water it down so that it's so diluted its almost unrecognizable.
The best we can hope for in my cynical mind is a game that's Ace Combat-like. Which, IMO, is the only acceptable way in which you can dumb down a sim game for the console.
I could see them releasing something via Steam as they have been recently but since Factor 5 is kaput and they mentioned the were working on a Rogue Squadron 4 then that gives Lucasarts more incentive bring something out for the consoles....hopefully.
As I have stated before, a Star Wars flight game in the vein of Ace Combat would be perfect for everyone. Shields and laser management be damned.
I could see them releasing something via Steam as they have been recently but since Factor 5 is kaput and they mentioned the were working on a Rogue Squadron 4 then that gives Lucasarts more incentive bring something out for the consoles....hopefully.
As I have stated before, a Star Wars flight game in the vein of Ace Combat would be perfect for everyone. Shields and laser management be damned.
Maybe for the consoles.
For the PC version, give us neckbeards the option of using our hundred dollar HOTAS systems and tweaking the knobs on our targeting computers during our run throught the trench. Adjustable realism for the win.
I could see them releasing something via Steam as they have been recently but since Factor 5 is kaput and they mentioned the were working on a Rogue Squadron 4 then that gives Lucasarts more incentive bring something out for the consoles....hopefully.
As I have stated before, a Star Wars flight game in the vein of Ace Combat would be perfect for everyone. Shields and laser management be damned.
see? its this kind of attitude that ruins franchises. shunting power around and managing your trifecta was key to what made these games great. without it is lacks that extra oomph that made winning against impossible odds so satisfying. yeah, some of the missions were god damned impossible, but atleast you had something to strive for and lots of different ways to get there.
I could see them releasing something via Steam as they have been recently but since Factor 5 is kaput and they mentioned the were working on a Rogue Squadron 4 then that gives Lucasarts more incentive bring something out for the consoles....hopefully.
As I have stated before, a Star Wars flight game in the vein of Ace Combat would be perfect for everyone. Shields and laser management be damned.
see? its this kind of attitude that ruins franchises. shunting power around and managing your trifecta was key to what made these games great. without it is lacks that extra oomph that made winning against impossible odds so satisfying. yeah, some of the missions were god damned impossible, but atleast you had something to strive for and lots of different ways to get there.
When I played X-Wing Alliance near when it came out I must have played it wrong. I had a Sidewinder 2 joystick that in combo with the keyboard felt wrong. So I bought a Hammerhead FX which at the time was the only dual stick pad with rumble. Only had 10 buttons and I never mapped lasers and shields to it and hardly ever fiddled with it.
I think its because I was trying to emulate the controls of Rogue Squadron 1.
I could see them releasing something via Steam as they have been recently but since Factor 5 is kaput and they mentioned the were working on a Rogue Squadron 4 then that gives Lucasarts more incentive bring something out for the consoles....hopefully.
As I have stated before, a Star Wars flight game in the vein of Ace Combat would be perfect for everyone. Shields and laser management be damned.
see? its this kind of attitude that ruins franchises. shunting power around and managing your trifecta was key to what made these games great. without it is lacks that extra oomph that made winning against impossible odds so satisfying. yeah, some of the missions were god damned impossible, but atleast you had something to strive for and lots of different ways to get there.
I'm OK with options that tone down settings for the smoothnecks while those of us with lumberjackian neckbeards play with 100% realism enabled.
Look at microsoft flight simulator, on the most easy of settings if you crash your plane pops up to 5000 feet instantly, you never run out of fuel, and you can basically behave as though your learjet is a f18. On the maximum difficulty you have to carefully manage your fuel, you've got to manually tune to ILS systems, you've got to manage how rich your fuel mixture is based on altitude, and you've got to check in with air traffic control regularly. Oh, and a flight instructor can remotely trigger your systems to fail in a realistic manner so that you don't know your airspeed indicator failed until you're plunging towards the ocean.
Now imagine that with a Star Wars starfighter sim. You've got the Ace Combat or HAWX Rogue Squadron play, and you can toggle it up to Falcon 4.0 In Space With Lasers. That would be fucking awesome.
Robman on
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
I'm kinda amused that everyone seems to throw around terms like "hardcore sim" when the only things that really distinguish the games from your average space arcade shooter are power management and the inclusion of a narrative that involves things other than blowing stuff up.
As far as the novels are concerned, I read a few of the X-Wing series, which were passable. The Thrawn Trilogy (now up to 6 books?) are among my favourites, and while the New Jedi Order series wavers significantly in terms of quality, there are a few decent moments and books, particularly the razing of that one planet (those who have read know the one I'm talking about) and a couple of the follow up books, where the Republic begins to take the offensive.
But there are indeed plenty of shitty Star Wars novels out there, so before snagging an Amazon cartload of them, I'd suggest asking people you know about any books or series you're interested in.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
I'm kinda amused that everyone seems to throw around terms like "hardcore sim" when the only things that really distinguish the games from your average space arcade shooter are power management and the inclusion of a narrative that involves things other than blowing stuff up.
And, well, the license.
Truth. What I would love to see is if they made the flight modeling a bit more spacey. You know, where if I cut my throttle to zero and make a hard turn left, I should keep on traveling in my original direction. It's how it worked in the X-wing books, so it was always a little disappointing that the games didn't work that way.
I remember that Microsoft's Allegiance did have controls like that... any others?
Brym on
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
Independence War.
Oh god independence war.
Oh, and that one with Bruce Campbell didn't have newtonian physics, but it had a button specifically for spinning your ship around while traveling in the same direction.
I'm kinda amused that everyone seems to throw around terms like "hardcore sim" when the only things that really distinguish the games from your average space arcade shooter are power management and the inclusion of a narrative that involves things other than blowing stuff up.
And, well, the license.
Well, most space arcade shooters have an up and a down. X-Wing/TIE Fighter were space sims where there was no set orientation that you ever return to automatically. Even the training levels had you flying upside-down at one point, except there is no upside down. Compare this to something like Rogue Squadron.
Well, to be honest, the flight system shown in the movies isn't about newtonian momentum and stuff like that. B5, yeah, but not Star Wars. Wasn't the space combat in Star Wars patterned after footage of WWII aerial combat?
I found X-wing and TIE Fighter to be pretty much like how they movies showed them to be. Which is what I wanted then and what I want now.
Posts
Yes but compare Rogue Squadron or H.A.W.X. to X3:R
Things like flight recorder can be handled much better in a Halo 3 style theater option than they were were in TIE Fighter, but even then, it's going to be tricky.
The end result would probably be something like X-Wing: Rogue Squadron and its sequels--though I do think the Xbox 360, for example, has 2 additional buttons (as well as clicking thumbsticks) than the NGC controller had, which will allow a slightly added degree of complexity. Worse comes to worse, energy distribution can be mapped after hitting 'back', though that would be a problem in multiplayer (not a bad one if you can set it up efficiently and quickly). Squadron controls are going to suffer the most, I expect--then again, the friendly AI in TIE Fighter and X-Wing was usually pretty damn stupid.
But yes, it's going to be a lot like Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader--except you'll be a TIE Interceptor pilot, and you'll shoot up unending wings of X-Wings, A-Wings, etc., and blow up large Rebel ships instead of Imperial ones. Then again, both those games were among my favorite NGC games...so I wouldn't be complaining, so long as they remember how fire links for TIE fighters (both top, both bottom, not across). It's the little things....
Part of me thinks I would feel the exact same way if I played it now. 4 years ago, I knew people who owned Gamecubes, and while the weirdo controller was a bit odd in my hands, it was definitely usable.
A few weeks ago, I was [strike]tricked into[/strike] convinced to join in a round of SSBM, and I realized just how unpleasant the thing is to hold. I don't know if my hands have grown in the same time, but I swear, that thing is not intended for human hands. Simply put, I've become used to the layout of the DS3/Xbox 360 controller.
Of course, actual gameplay controls are a very different matter than ergonomics. But it doesn't help.
is in the game or TV series, I will love them both.
I can relate. While I did enjoy Rogue Squadron 3D on PC (had to track down new drivers for my Diamond GPU to actually get ships to show up!), it was a case of chronic "Darn you newfangled consoles and your changed mechanics! Get off my lawn!". And it was a big step down from TIE Fighter.
That just confirms how radically different they are. Honestly, I have no idea who came up with the Gamecube's controller, but I'm fairly certain it was intended for someone with short, stubby fingers. And possible fewer than ten. The thing is just so counter-intuitive to me I can't help but shake my head at it now. I end up touching my own hands more than the controller whenever I use one.
Add to that the button placement...really, the only thing I can think of that was good about that controller, and not just merely 'okay' or flat out bad, were the triggers.
It's not the worse controller I've ever held, but it's definitely an F/D- grade for me.
The namesake character for the only group of Star Wars books that, to my knowledge, don't suck in terms of writing? Fuck. Yes.
Unfortunately, I don't think American TV audiences want a non-movie character taking the spotlight from their [strike]space Evangelicals with mind control[/strike] usual Jedi. Perhaps as an antagonist, but even then, I don't see it happening. Maybe it's for the better. I mean, I personally think that'd be almost as awesome as a young Billy D. Williams, and it wouldn't require a time-machine either.
I could see him being briefly mentioned in a game. Very briefly.
I didn't get to play the expansions, but I clearly remember him from the original game, at least in one cutscene.
He was in the basic TIE Fighter. Though I think he played a bigger role in later games.
Hey, did the Windows 95 version of TIE Fighter include the expansions?
If you're a fan of the X-Wing/TIE series, and of Star Wars, the X-wing rogue squadron series (at least the Bacta War part) is some of the most brilliant writing in the expanded universe.
I don't know how good or bad any later books were as I haven't kept up in years.
Origin: Viycktor
I read a couple of his books (including some of the X-Wing ones), years ago--in part because Stackpole is one of the few MechWarrior/Battletech writers who doesn't completely suck either. :?
Also one or two by Kevin J. Anderson. Again, it's not as though even the original Star Wars sets the bar really high when it comes to quality of writing. And this is hard for me to say, because normally I'm basically the anti-snob when it comes to reading anything--so long as it isn't filled with grammatical errors, I'm pretty pleased.
Go read Matt Stover's Star Wars work. And I can call it work because after reading it even Zahn(Thrawn series) seems terribly cliche and trite.
The book "Traitor" from the NJO is probably the single best EU book.
You all seem to have missed my earlier post about this. I actually re-played TIE fighter just two years ago on my PC. The only controller I had around was my 360 controller, so that's what I used. It worked fine.
The key was full utilization of the dpad, and figuring out which controls could be left out. With a few UI tweaks, it would be flawless.
No, I saw that. But even you admit that you had to leave controls out. I've no doubt that they can come up with a suitable control scheme, but it's going to be hugely compromised from using a keyboard. I just can't imagine playing TIE Fighter without the keyboard. Whatever they come up with will be a different animal altogether. Not saying it can't be good. But it won't be TIE Fighter.
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
Absolutely incorrect. Even if I agree with you on the rest of them.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=iXBr7od7a4EC&dq=matt+stover+traitor&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=AfXluoYisO&sig=ZVW4ry0tTDdVg1hp82eFGMWmYQg&hl=en&ei=T116SsDNOp-Etge409HoAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Somehow it's even available complete on google books.
I think you're missing my point. I've played the game using a 360 controller, and it wasn't a different animal. It's very do-able, and I know because I did it.
The things that were lacking in my implementation of the controls would be easily fixed by having the game designed around the controller. For example, I left out wingman commands. But it would be easy to put those all in a one-button radial menu, or even as Endwar-style voice commands.
Also, the game didn't support using the triggers for the throttle very well, but with better support for a trigger then you don't need 7 different buttons to manage your throttle.
Remember, if you use the dpad as buttons, there are two analog sticks, two analog triggers, and 18 digital buttons on a 360 controller. That's a lot, and with a well-designed UI the controller shouldn't be a reason to sacrifice complexity.
This trend is irrespective of the platform it comes on, although you can argue whether or not the increasing popularity of console systems has any correlation with it. I'm not gonna touch that morass with a thirty foot pole.
Of course, this means nothing if this supposed announcement turns out to be a Steam re-release or something, which it all well could be considering the recent trend of LucasArts re-releases of old games on DD services.
I'd love to see TIE fighter get yet another graphics facelift a la the Collector's Edition.
As for the controller argument, unlike Mechwarrior, I'm not quite as confident that everything can fit onto a controller without dropping features, or at least relegating them to a pause menu of some sort.
That said, whenever someone trots out the "there's so many individual controls!" argument, I'm tempted to ask what fraction of them they actually use in the course of normal gameplay, and how many of them actually need to exist as such. (I'm looking in your direction, Inspect Target.)
Targetting could become a bit smarter...
and you really don't need the insta 3/4, 1/2, full speed buttons.
It's doable.
I'd use that alongside a keyboard for certain operations -- mostly throttle and target acquisition, but I could see getting most of the important functions onto a modern 10+ button, d-pad, and 2 analog stick controller if you were willing to consolidate some of the controls.
For example, instead of having seperate controls for:
0% throttle
33% throttle
66% throttle
full throttle
+throttle
-throttle
match acceleration with target
you could probably consolidate most of that onto two buttons, possibly just handled with a single analog stick and having a click represent match acceleration with target.
Truth be told, I'm not that much into the Star Wars books. And the actual NJO stuff that I had read struck me as incredibly boring--"Jacen and Jaino's Excellent Advnture". But that's just a matter of taste--plus, it was only the first book, so it could have changed. I might just be approaching it from the wrong mindset. I basically grabbed it from a library after having finished Vision of the Future.
This news is delightful.
While there were things missing (Power management being the obvious one), most of the controls for a space sim game were easily handled.
That stated...I'd prefer a PC release with keyboard and flight stick controls. I think that any console release would follow the Jedi Starfighter or Rogue Squadron style of games...which while fine, aren't motherfraking TIE Fighter.
Exactly. This is why I can't get overly excited about this announcement. You can always count on these companies to take what we want, and water it down so that it's so diluted its almost unrecognizable.
The best we can hope for in my cynical mind is a game that's Ace Combat-like. Which, IMO, is the only acceptable way in which you can dumb down a sim game for the console.
Hope I'm wrong
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Prediction like on the first page. Sorry for the mess.
As I have stated before, a Star Wars flight game in the vein of Ace Combat would be perfect for everyone. Shields and laser management be damned.
Maybe for the consoles.
For the PC version, give us neckbeards the option of using our hundred dollar HOTAS systems and tweaking the knobs on our targeting computers during our run throught the trench. Adjustable realism for the win.
see? its this kind of attitude that ruins franchises. shunting power around and managing your trifecta was key to what made these games great. without it is lacks that extra oomph that made winning against impossible odds so satisfying. yeah, some of the missions were god damned impossible, but atleast you had something to strive for and lots of different ways to get there.
When I played X-Wing Alliance near when it came out I must have played it wrong. I had a Sidewinder 2 joystick that in combo with the keyboard felt wrong. So I bought a Hammerhead FX which at the time was the only dual stick pad with rumble. Only had 10 buttons and I never mapped lasers and shields to it and hardly ever fiddled with it.
I think its because I was trying to emulate the controls of Rogue Squadron 1.
I'm OK with options that tone down settings for the smoothnecks while those of us with lumberjackian neckbeards play with 100% realism enabled.
Look at microsoft flight simulator, on the most easy of settings if you crash your plane pops up to 5000 feet instantly, you never run out of fuel, and you can basically behave as though your learjet is a f18. On the maximum difficulty you have to carefully manage your fuel, you've got to manually tune to ILS systems, you've got to manage how rich your fuel mixture is based on altitude, and you've got to check in with air traffic control regularly. Oh, and a flight instructor can remotely trigger your systems to fail in a realistic manner so that you don't know your airspeed indicator failed until you're plunging towards the ocean.
Now imagine that with a Star Wars starfighter sim. You've got the Ace Combat or HAWX Rogue Squadron play, and you can toggle it up to Falcon 4.0 In Space With Lasers. That would be fucking awesome.
And, well, the license.
But there are indeed plenty of shitty Star Wars novels out there, so before snagging an Amazon cartload of them, I'd suggest asking people you know about any books or series you're interested in.
Truth. What I would love to see is if they made the flight modeling a bit more spacey. You know, where if I cut my throttle to zero and make a hard turn left, I should keep on traveling in my original direction. It's how it worked in the X-wing books, so it was always a little disappointing that the games didn't work that way.
I remember that Microsoft's Allegiance did have controls like that... any others?
Oh god independence war.
Oh, and that one with Bruce Campbell didn't have newtonian physics, but it had a button specifically for spinning your ship around while traveling in the same direction.
Well, most space arcade shooters have an up and a down. X-Wing/TIE Fighter were space sims where there was no set orientation that you ever return to automatically. Even the training levels had you flying upside-down at one point, except there is no upside down. Compare this to something like Rogue Squadron.
I found X-wing and TIE Fighter to be pretty much like how they movies showed them to be. Which is what I wanted then and what I want now.