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Pre-Fight Debate Thread: Bracket 16

2

Posts

  • Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I love how when Rick Jones tried it, all he got was cancer.

    Synthetic Orange on
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Skullo wrote:
    Guys, Guys, we're supposed to talk about reasons mysterio will win!

    I want him to win so badly. :(

    Abomination is going to wipe the floor with him unless we think of something ingenious!

    I don't see how a Mysterio win is so difficult to imagine. Honestly, with the way Doom sets up these competitions, I can see Mysterio continuing to get wins based on out-of-bounds disqualifications. Victory over Mysterio requires someone with either a powerful will or a sharp mind.

    Not that I would accuse Abomination of being a total idiot. But think about this for a moment. Mysterio is a threat to Spider-Man (perhaps not a significant one, but that aside). If Spidey was 10x stronger, would their battles be any different? I doubt it.

    CyberJackal on
  • OllieQBDOllieQBD Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre X is so fucking right.

    It's right there you bastards, in AIM headquarters, you don't beat MODOK in his house full of everything MODOK needs to beat anyone.

    OllieQBD on
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  • JudasJudas Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Skullo wrote:
    Guys, Guys, we're supposed to talk about reasons mysterio will win!

    I want him to win so badly. :(

    Abomination is going to wipe the floor with him unless we think of something ingenious!

    I don't see how a Mysterio win is so difficult to imagine. Honestly, with the way Doom sets up these competitions, I can see Mysterio continuing to get wins based on out-of-bounds disqualifications. Victory over Mysterio requires someone with either a powerful will or a sharp mind.

    Not that I would accuse Abomination of being a total idiot. But think about this for a moment. Mysterio is a threat to Spider-Man (perhaps not a significant one, but that aside). If Spidey was 10x stronger, would their battles be any different? I doubt it.

    I'd like to see Mysterio win too, but what happens when Abomination smashes his fist into the ground and does that shock wave knockdown that all the super strength kids love to pull? The entire stadium collapses, Mysterio is either buried under rubble, or at the least knocked on his ass and too scared shitless to react fast enough. I just don't see this ending well for him. :|

    And as for Nimrod, if you don't kill him outright the first time, he adapts to whatever your last attack was. Every time. Add in the teleportation, regeneration, and other assorted offensive tricks...well, there best be a fuck ton of unique and powerful weapons laying around to take him out.

    Judas on
    Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver.
    Situation excellent. I am attacking.

    - General Ferdinand Foch
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    OllieQBD wrote:
    Spectre X is so fucking right.

    It's right there you bastards, in AIM headquarters, you don't beat MODOK in his house full of everything MODOK needs to beat anyone.

    Your right, in a tournament where Doom has done a pretty good job of putting the fighters on a level playing field he decided to throw that out the window this round and design the fight specifically so Nimrod gets blown out of the water. Nope not a chance that Nimrod could even compete in this one, better just pack things in cause Spex said so.

    Marathon on
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    OllieQBD wrote:
    Spectre X is so fucking right.

    It's right there you bastards, in AIM headquarters, you don't beat MODOK in his house full of everything MODOK needs to beat anyone.

    Your right, in a tournament where Doom has done a pretty good job of putting the fighters on a level playing field he decided to throw that out the window this round and design the fight specifically so Nimrod gets blown out of the water. Nope not a chance that Nimrod could even compete in this one, better just pack things in cause Spex said so.

    So...if I'm reading this right, your argument amounts to countering "Spex said so" with "Doom is usually right".

    Fiaryn on
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  • MajidahMajidah Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    First glance I had abomb and nimrod by such large margins they couldn't be measured with any existing measuring device. Now I'm not so sure.

    Modok in AIM headquarters is...just...too..much. Who picked this battle ground? Unless Nimrod has the good luck to pop up in the same room as Modok and beat him into submission before Modok can get to a phone, Modok's going to call in the cavalry. It's like Professor X vs magneto in location 8miles in the air and falling fast!

    Mysterio's best chance is to set up some sort of luring device to win by ringout and thus, A-Bomb's best chance is to sit down, close his eyes and wait for Mysterio to starve. If Blonsky did his homework and watched Mysterios previous videos I think he can make this leap of logic.

    Majidah on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Fiaryn wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    OllieQBD wrote:
    Spectre X is so fucking right.

    It's right there you bastards, in AIM headquarters, you don't beat MODOK in his house full of everything MODOK needs to beat anyone.

    Your right, in a tournament where Doom has done a pretty good job of putting the fighters on a level playing field he decided to throw that out the window this round and design the fight specifically so Nimrod gets blown out of the water. Nope not a chance that Nimrod could even compete in this one, better just pack things in cause Spex said so.

    So...if I'm reading this right, your argument amounts to countering "Spex said so" with "Doom is usually right".

    No, what im saying is that Doom would not set the fight in a place that gives one fighter a huge advantage over the other. Nimrod can control computers, which would put a great deal of power at his disposal as well. He could turn the defenses of AIM's headquartes on MODOK even though MODOK helped AIM develop their stuff.

    Marathon on
  • The_LightbringerThe_Lightbringer Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Scooter wrote:
    modof.JPG


    He's still losing.

    He really should have calculated the probability of that happening



    And on Mysterio vs Abom fight:
    Can 10lbs of C4 take out Abomination? Cause if it can't then the only way he could beat him is by leading him out of the arena.

    The_Lightbringer on
    LuciferSig.jpg
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Fiaryn wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    OllieQBD wrote:
    Spectre X is so fucking right.

    It's right there you bastards, in AIM headquarters, you don't beat MODOK in his house full of everything MODOK needs to beat anyone.

    Your right, in a tournament where Doom has done a pretty good job of putting the fighters on a level playing field he decided to throw that out the window this round and design the fight specifically so Nimrod gets blown out of the water. Nope not a chance that Nimrod could even compete in this one, better just pack things in cause Spex said so.

    So...if I'm reading this right, your argument amounts to countering "Spex said so" with "Doom is usually right".

    No, what im saying is that Doom would not set the fight in a place that gives one fighter a huge advantage over the other. Nimrod can control computers, which would put a great deal of power at his disposal as well. He could turn the defenses of AIM's headquartes on MODOK even though MODOK helped AIM develop their stuff.

    Except MODOK can just take control right back from udner Nimrod's nose, seeing as MODOK is a biological sentient supercomputer designed for the sole reason of studying, understanding and replicating the Cosmic fucking Cube, an immensely powerful artifact capable of rearranging reality itself (and also killing).

    That pretty much trumps Nimrod's feeble, feeble robotic brain.

    Spectre-x on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nimrod is designed solely for killing mutants and, perhaps, other super-humans. That's a pretty big liability in this tournament, now that I think about it, especially against MODOK.

    robosagogo on
  • SlagmireSlagmire Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Fiaryn wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    OllieQBD wrote:
    Spectre X is so fucking right.

    It's right there you bastards, in AIM headquarters, you don't beat MODOK in his house full of everything MODOK needs to beat anyone.

    Your right, in a tournament where Doom has done a pretty good job of putting the fighters on a level playing field he decided to throw that out the window this round and design the fight specifically so Nimrod gets blown out of the water. Nope not a chance that Nimrod could even compete in this one, better just pack things in cause Spex said so.

    So...if I'm reading this right, your argument amounts to countering "Spex said so" with "Doom is usually right".

    No, what im saying is that Doom would not set the fight in a place that gives one fighter a huge advantage over the other. Nimrod can control computers, which would put a great deal of power at his disposal as well. He could turn the defenses of AIM's headquartes on MODOK even though MODOK helped AIM develop their stuff.

    Except MODOK can just take control right back from udner Nimrod's nose, seeing as MODOK is a biological sentient supercomputer designed for the sole reason of studying, understanding and replicating the Cosmic fucking Cube, an immensely powerful artifact capable of rearranging reality itself (and also killing).

    That pretty much trumps Nimrod's feeble, feeble robotic brain.

    How has Iron Man typically defeated him in the past btw?

    Slagmire on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Nimrod is designed solely for killing mutants and, perhaps, other super-humans. That's a pretty big liability in this tournament, now that I think about it, especially against MODOK.

    Nimrod's designed to kill stuff too, yeah. But a fight between the two in AIM headquarters is still going to be a pocket calculator trying to beat Deep Blue in a chess match.

    I have no idea how MODOK has been beaten by Iron Man.

    Spectre-x on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
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    You decide whether or not he's as stupid as I thought he was.
    Nimrod's designed to kill stuff too, yeah. But a fight between the two in AIM headquarters is still going to be a pocket calculator trying to beat Deep Blue in a chess match.

    I have no idea how MODOK has been beaten by Iron Man.

    I meant that Nimrod wasn't made with creatures like MODOK in mind, so his ability to defeat him is greatly limited. Nimrod's powers of adaptation, his strongest asset, is geared towards altering himself to deal with mutant abilities after being struck with them once. Stronger computational abilities, however, are something he cannot compensate for.

    robosagogo on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Fiaryn wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    OllieQBD wrote:
    Spectre X is so fucking right.

    It's right there you bastards, in AIM headquarters, you don't beat MODOK in his house full of everything MODOK needs to beat anyone.

    Your right, in a tournament where Doom has done a pretty good job of putting the fighters on a level playing field he decided to throw that out the window this round and design the fight specifically so Nimrod gets blown out of the water. Nope not a chance that Nimrod could even compete in this one, better just pack things in cause Spex said so.

    So...if I'm reading this right, your argument amounts to countering "Spex said so" with "Doom is usually right".

    No, what im saying is that Doom would not set the fight in a place that gives one fighter a huge advantage over the other. Nimrod can control computers, which would put a great deal of power at his disposal as well. He could turn the defenses of AIM's headquartes on MODOK even though MODOK helped AIM develop their stuff.

    Except MODOK can just take control right back from udner Nimrod's nose, seeing as MODOK is a biological sentient supercomputer designed for the sole reason of studying, understanding and replicating the Cosmic fucking Cube, an immensely powerful artifact capable of rearranging reality itself (and also killing).

    That pretty much trumps Nimrod's feeble, feeble robotic brain.

    I did'nt see anything about MODOK having the ability to control computers on Wikipedia. Ill admit that he would have a great ability to use them, but once Nimrod took them over I don't think MODOK could just take it back that easily.

    Plus, MODOK is super advanced technology in the present. Nimrod is the pinacle of technology from the future, his robotic brain is not quite as feeble as you make it out to be.

    Emotions could also get the better of MODOK and not Nimrod. Nimrod is a computer and has no feelings. According to Wikipedia emotions have gotten the best of MODOK pleanty of times.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Despite MODOK's great powers, his effectiveness is greatly hampered by emotional instability and immaturity, sometimes to the point of making rash and dangerous decisions that belie his great intellect.

    It will be a close fight, but I think Nimrod has a pretty good chance.

    Marathon on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nimrod isn't going to piss off MODOK in the same way Iron Man and others usually do. I don't think his short temper is going to be a factor unless he gets to a point where he's guaranteed to lose, and it wouldn't really matter then.

    robosagogo on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I apologize, robos. Forgive me, please.


    Anyway, Marathon, I'm not talking about MODOK controlling computers through technopathy or anything, I'm just talking about overriding Nimrod's controls manually.

    And AIM technology is pretty fucking advanced. I would dare say more advanced than Nimrod. After all, they made the Adaptoids. Beings that can copy the superhuman abilities of any creature. Like the Sentry. Who can fight Galactus to a standstill. And they know how to make Cosmic Cubes. And a whole bunch of other deadly crap.

    Spectre-x on
  • hughtronhughtron __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    This is the only match I'm voting in, and I'm only voting because MODOK is supreme.

    hughtron on
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  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I wouldn't be surprised if there were Sentinels of the future who were more smarter and quicker than MODOK, but they weren't the ones out hunting the remaining mutants and they certainly weren't Nimrod. If Nimrod was so smart, he wouldn't have been overtaken by Master Mold (a modern Sentinel) and transformed into Bastion. Rather, he would've rejected the outdated Sentinel technology and moved on.

    robosagogo on
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm pretty sure that MODOK does not control technology. Nimrod not only controls technology but he can physically change it and adapt it to his needs.

    I can easily see a situation where MODOK gets frustrated (MODOK getting frustrated?! That NEVER happens, oh wait) due to his over-confidence and the fact that he cannot simply use his computer devices to put a stop to Nimrod.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    The arguement about whether or not Abomination is 'smart' seems rather pointless. It doesn't matter if he's smart when everything he sees could be an illusion. Spiderman has to rely on his damn spider sense, and I would bet that he's a good deal smarter than Blonsky.

    I honestly think Mysterio has this in the bag as long as they don't start within 20ft of each other. Mysterio will easily lead him out of bounds if he has his robots AND his holographic projector.

    On a side note. I suspect that after Blonsky gets disqualified, he'll go back into the arena and beat Mysterio into paste just for the hell of it. Still, the puddle that was once Mysterio will advance.

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
  • CyberJackalCyberJackal Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

    CyberJackal on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm pretty sure that MODOK does not control technology. Nimrod not only controls technology but he can physically change it and adapt it to his needs.

    I can easily see a situation where MODOK gets frustrated (MODOK getting frustrated?! That NEVER happens, oh wait) due to his over-confidence and the fact that he cannot simply use his computer devices to put a stop to Nimrod.

    Again, I'm not talking mentally controlling technology, I'm talking using his vastly superior brain to simply override Nimrod's control over whatever manually, possibly even Nimrod himself.

    Spectre-x on
  • DraXXXenDraXXXen Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'd love to say MODOK would win while in the AIM base, but I'm going to go with Nimrod.

    Oh..and Mysterio all the way. He isn't going to be retarded enough to get punched by A-Bomb and will win through trickery. Plus...Fish Bowl head FTW

    DraXXXen on
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  • RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Couldn't Nimrod tap into the nearest computer (even if just for a second, before MODOK reasserts control), find out where MODOK is located, teleport, zap zap zap, fight over? All of MODOK's actual fighting abilities are based around mind control, and Nimrod has no mind.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
  • Milquetoast ThugMilquetoast Thug Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

    Ditto.

    on the other fight: Quite frankly, super intelligence doesn't neccessarily translate to being super good at skillset X. The logic that he could "haxx0rs Nimrod because he's super smart" strikes me as following the same logic as saying "that guy has a high IQ, he must automatically be good at chess/programming/whatever" I'm pretty certain Nimrod could jack MODOK's weapon's systems.

    Furthermore, Nimrod is a regenerating robot made of nearly indestructable material. MODOK is a psychic guy with a really big head. And tiny freak limbs. In a hover chair. And Nimrod can teleport. Even seriously, this would be over so fast, it won't even be funny.

    Milquetoast Thug on
  • SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I don't know, I can't quite see how manually pushing buttons and levers and whatnot, physically using input devices into a machine, would trump Nimrod's domination of the computers, let alone his inherent combat abilities.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    Septus wrote:
    I don't know, I can't quite see how manually pushing buttons and levers and whatnot, physically using input devices into a machine, would trump Nimrod's domination of the computers, let alone his inherent combat abilities.

    man, no kidding

    KEYSTROKE KEYSTROKE OH GOOD ZERO COOL I GOT CONTROL BACK FROM THAT SUCKA NIMROD

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Couldn't Nimrod tap into the nearest computer (even if just for a second, before MODOK reasserts control), find out where MODOK is located, teleport, zap zap zap, fight over? All of MODOK's actual fighting abilities are based around mind control, and Nimrod has no mind.

    MODOK posesses powerful psychokinetic abilities.

    Spectre-x on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that MODOK does not control technology. Nimrod not only controls technology but he can physically change it and adapt it to his needs.

    I can easily see a situation where MODOK gets frustrated (MODOK getting frustrated?! That NEVER happens, oh wait) due to his over-confidence and the fact that he cannot simply use his computer devices to put a stop to Nimrod.

    Again, I'm not talking mentally controlling technology, I'm talking using his vastly superior brain to simply override Nimrod's control over whatever manually, possibly even Nimrod himself.

    Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. There is no way at all that MODOK could take control over Nimrod. If either of them would have that happen it would be the other way around. Nimrod takes absolute control over the computers he possesses that type of control does not get taken over by someone on the outside using ctrl+alt+del.

    Marathon on
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that MODOK does not control technology. Nimrod not only controls technology but he can physically change it and adapt it to his needs.

    I can easily see a situation where MODOK gets frustrated (MODOK getting frustrated?! That NEVER happens, oh wait) due to his over-confidence and the fact that he cannot simply use his computer devices to put a stop to Nimrod.

    Again, I'm not talking mentally controlling technology, I'm talking using his vastly superior brain to simply override Nimrod's control over whatever manually, possibly even Nimrod himself.

    Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. There is no way at all that MODOK could take control over Nimrod. If either of them would have that happen it would be the other way around. Nimrod takes absolute control over the computers he possesses that type of control does not get taken over by someone on the outside using ctrl+alt+del.
    Then how did a modern day version of Master Mold overtake him?

    MODOK is, I'm sure, more sophisticated than Master Mold.

    robosagogo on
  • JudasJudas Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Then how did a modern day version of Master Mold overtake him?

    MODOK is, I'm sure, more sophisticated than Master Mold.

    Well, they're both Sentinels, so they probably share a lot of the same legacy software and neural hardware. Wouldn't be that difficult for Master Mold to subvert Nimrod's programing once Nimrod tried to absorb MM into himself. Which is how Master Mold gained access...I think. It's been awhile since I read those issues.

    An outside hack attempt on Nimrod's "mind" originating from a hostile target would be far, far more difficult, if not impossible to accomplish.

    Judas on
    Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver.
    Situation excellent. I am attacking.

    - General Ferdinand Foch
  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Judas wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    Then how did a modern day version of Master Mold overtake him?

    MODOK is, I'm sure, more sophisticated than Master Mold.

    Well, they're both Sentinels, so they probably share a lot of the same legacy software and neural hardware. Wouldn't be that difficult for Master Mold to subvert Nimrod's programing once Nimrod tried to absorb MM into himself. Which is how Master Mold gained access...I think. It's been awhile since I read those issues.

    An outside hack attempt on Nimrod's "mind" originating from a hostile target would be far, far more difficult, if not impossible to accomplish.

    Nimrod would've prevented MM's attempts to subvert his programming if he had the capability to do so. Even if they share the same components, it doesn't change the fact that Master Mold took control of a machine far more advanced than himself.

    The logical conclusion is that Nimrod simply isn't designed with protecting his own programming in mind. He's a grunt, and that's all. He's designed to take orders. There are no blocks to prevent program subversion because there's simply no worry about that happening in a future where the few remaining people lack the capabilities to do so.

    robosagogo on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Judas wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    Then how did a modern day version of Master Mold overtake him?

    MODOK is, I'm sure, more sophisticated than Master Mold.

    Well, they're both Sentinels, so they probably share a lot of the same legacy software and neural hardware. Wouldn't be that difficult for Master Mold to subvert Nimrod's programing once Nimrod tried to absorb MM into himself. Which is how Master Mold gained access...I think. It's been awhile since I read those issues.

    An outside hack attempt on Nimrod's "mind" originating from a hostile target would be far, far more difficult, if not impossible to accomplish.

    Nimrod would've prevented MM's attempts to subvert his programming if he had the capability to do so. The logical conclusion is that Nimrod simply isn't designed with protecting his own programming in mind. He's a grunt, and that's all. He's designed to take orders. There are no blocks to prevent program subversion because there's simply no worry about that happening in a future where the few remaining people lack the capabilities to do so.

    well that doesn't follow logically at all

    especially since the master mold story ended with nimrod going oh hey master mold didn't take me over after all let me help kick it's ass

    Servo on
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  • tsplittertsplitter Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    nimrod was made by normal humans, right?

    tsplitter on
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  • Sars_BoySars_Boy Rest, You Are The Lightning. Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    tsplitter wrote:
    nimrod was made by normal humans, right?
    Forge, I think.

    Sars_Boy on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    what's more likely is that in the bizarrely strange scenario that nimrod doesn't already have mcafee virus scan, he just changes his wiring around and makes it impossible to take him over

    Servo on
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  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    Sars_Boy wrote:
    tsplitter wrote:
    nimrod was made by normal humans, right?
    Forge, I think.

    originally he was created by sentinals

    forge made a different body that got nimrod's mind when his original got banged up

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • tsplittertsplitter Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    what kind of security measures is AIM known to have?

    tsplitter on
    FqmsaJ6.png
  • JudasJudas Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    ...The logical conclusion is that Nimrod simply isn't designed with protecting his own programming in mind. He's a grunt, and that's all. He's designed to take orders. There are no blocks to prevent program subversion because there's simply no worry about that happening in a future where the few remaining people lack the capabilities to do so.

    So, the first mutant he comes across who can hack/override computer programing from a distance ( or even with a wireless goddamn modem ) is going to shut him down?

    I really can't see that kind of huge glaring achilles heel slipping past his creators.

    Judas on
    Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver.
    Situation excellent. I am attacking.

    - General Ferdinand Foch
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