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Pre-Fight Debate Thread: Bracket 16

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Posts

  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Judas wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    ...The logical conclusion is that Nimrod simply isn't designed with protecting his own programming in mind. He's a grunt, and that's all. He's designed to take orders. There are no blocks to prevent program subversion because there's simply no worry about that happening in a future where the few remaining people lack the capabilities to do so.

    So, the first mutant he comes across who can hack/override computer programing from a distance ( or even with a wireless goddamn modem ) is going to shut him down?

    I really can't see that kind of huge glaring achilles heel slipping past his creators.

    If he had some way of preventing that, then Master Mold wouldn't have taken control of him.

    Hell, there's a miniseries about a prepubescent kid who manages to take control of a damaged Sentinel.

    Just because it's stupid doesn't mean it isn't true.

    robosagogo on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Judas wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:
    ...The logical conclusion is that Nimrod simply isn't designed with protecting his own programming in mind. He's a grunt, and that's all. He's designed to take orders. There are no blocks to prevent program subversion because there's simply no worry about that happening in a future where the few remaining people lack the capabilities to do so.

    So, the first mutant he comes across who can hack/override computer programing from a distance ( or even with a wireless goddamn modem ) is going to shut him down?

    I really can't see that kind of huge glaring achilles heel slipping past his creators.

    If he had some way of preventing that, then Master Mold wouldn't have taken control of him.

    Hell, there's a miniseries about a prepubescent kid who manages to take control of a damaged Sentinel.

    Just because it's stupid doesn't mean it isn't true.

    but it didn't last! nimrod broke out of the control pretty quick!

    Servo on
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  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Still happened, and MODOK is far more sophisticated than Master Mold.

    robosagogo on
  • JudasJudas Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    But wouldn't Master Mold be specifically designed to take control over all sentinels that he came in contact with? Wasn't that his main function when created?

    Judas on
    Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver.
    Situation excellent. I am attacking.

    - General Ferdinand Foch
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:
    Still happened, and MODOK is far more sophisticated than Master Mold.

    but it happened, so nimrod has already fixed that flaw.


    plus, again, adaptability beyond modok's control.

    plus, as judas just pointed out

    Servo on
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  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Judas wrote:
    But wouldn't Master Mold be specifically designed to take control over all sentinels that he came in contact with? Wasn't that his main function when created?

    If Nimrod was made with a vulnerability to being overtaken by Master Mold, then how is that not a vulnerability MODOK could take advantage of himself?

    And the Nimrod who was taken over by Master Mold merged with Master Mold and became Bastion. They are still Bastion. As far as I know, the Nimrod who was in New X-Men was a different one.



    So wait, did Nimrod even break out of Master Mold's control or did you assume he did because a different Nimrod has since appeared in the comics?

    robosagogo on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    robosagogo wrote:



    So wait, did Nimrod even break out of Master Mold's control or did you assume he did because a different Nimrod has since appeared in the comics?

    in the story nimrod breaks out of master mold's control to help the x-men kick mm's ass, then they both fall into the siege perilous and that's when they become bastion

    here
    However, when Nimrod came across a piece of the gigantic Sentinel Master Mold while working on a construction site, his programming was immediately co-opted and the Master Mold used Nimrod's systems to rebuild its own body. The X-Men were hard pressed to defeat the reborn Master Mold at first, but Nimrod came to their aid, claiming he had evolved as well, and no longer viewed them or mutants as a threat. Nimrod asserted enough control over the Master Mold to render it immobile, and even convinced it that - having absorbed Nimrod, who now regarded himself as a mutant - it had become a mutant as well; thus, to fulfill its prime directive to exterminate mutants, it must self-destruct. The remains of both robots were pushed through the Siege Perilous, a mystical gateway that caused all who passed through it to be reborn with new bodies. Nimrod and Master Mold were merged into one being, Bastion.

    Servo on
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  • robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Servo wrote:
    robosagogo wrote:



    So wait, did Nimrod even break out of Master Mold's control or did you assume he did because a different Nimrod has since appeared in the comics?

    in the story nimrod breaks out of master mold's control to help the x-men kick mm's ass, then they both fall into the siege perilous and that's when they become bastion

    here
    However, when Nimrod came across a piece of the gigantic Sentinel Master Mold while working on a construction site, his programming was immediately co-opted and the Master Mold used Nimrod's systems to rebuild its own body. The X-Men were hard pressed to defeat the reborn Master Mold at first, but Nimrod came to their aid, claiming he had evolved as well, and no longer viewed them or mutants as a threat. Nimrod asserted enough control over the Master Mold to render it immobile, and even convinced it that - having absorbed Nimrod, who now regarded himself as a mutant - it had become a mutant as well; thus, to fulfill its prime directive to exterminate mutants, it must self-destruct. The remains of both robots were pushed through the Siege Perilous, a mystical gateway that caused all who passed through it to be reborn with new bodies. Nimrod and Master Mold were merged into one being, Bastion.

    So then
    but it happened, so nimrod has already fixed that flaw.

    isn't true because the Nimrod who would have fixed that flaw isn't competing, having become Bastion and not since recovered.

    robosagogo on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    well yeah, i guess so, but i still don't know what version we're using.

    at any rate, it still didn't really work. master mold just co-opted nimrod's regeneration abilities, it didn't really 'take over' nimrod in any meaningful way

    Servo on
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  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Too many timelines... I don't know if this has been said yet, but wouldn't any version of Nimrod include information on MODOK and A.I.M? In the last few X-Men he was able to pull up information on Forge and X-23. He called her Talon, I guess that's her future codename, and showed Forge having children with Storm. I don't remember if his display of the timeline changed as the fight went less in his favor, but I think whatever he did have was pretty detailed. When the Sentinels are at the height of their power in that particular version of the world, all super dudes and villains are under control or dead. He'd have information on pretty much every organization and major player in the past, I think that includes MODOK and A.I.Ms base.

    Malkor on
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  • MajidahMajidah Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    we're all arguing over whether nimrod will take over modok or modok take over nimrod. In pretty much every other bracket Doom has forbidden one party from directly mind controlling the other. I can't see why he would leave it out of this bracket, other than that he was too busy with latverian buissiness (and using PI's body as fertilizer for his rose garden) to notice that the silly robots might haxx0r each other.

    If we leave mind control out of it who wins? Nimrod if he can get to Modok before Modok gets all the AIM defenses ready, otherwise Modok will wipe the floor with him.

    Majidah on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that MODOK does not control technology. Nimrod not only controls technology but he can physically change it and adapt it to his needs.

    I can easily see a situation where MODOK gets frustrated (MODOK getting frustrated?! That NEVER happens, oh wait) due to his over-confidence and the fact that he cannot simply use his computer devices to put a stop to Nimrod.

    Again, I'm not talking mentally controlling technology, I'm talking using his vastly superior brain to simply override Nimrod's control over whatever manually, possibly even Nimrod himself.

    Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. There is no way at all that MODOK could take control over Nimrod. If either of them would have that happen it would be the other way around. Nimrod takes absolute control over the computers he possesses that type of control does not get taken over by someone on the outside using ctrl+alt+del.

    No, sorry, you're wrong. I'm pretty sure the guy with the giant brain and equally gargantuan intellect (not to mention monstrous inventive mind and familiarity with anything technological) could write up a virus or something similar to fucking destroy Nimrod or at least destroy his control over computers.

    Since it's fucking MODOK and he is a biological supercomputer powerful enough to grasp the workings of the Cosmic Cube. COSMIC CUBE.
    tsplitter wrote:
    what kind of security measures is AIM known to have?

    I don't think anybody actually knows for sure, but knowing AIM they can probably vaporize God.

    Spectre-x on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that MODOK does not control technology. Nimrod not only controls technology but he can physically change it and adapt it to his needs.

    I can easily see a situation where MODOK gets frustrated (MODOK getting frustrated?! That NEVER happens, oh wait) due to his over-confidence and the fact that he cannot simply use his computer devices to put a stop to Nimrod.

    Again, I'm not talking mentally controlling technology, I'm talking using his vastly superior brain to simply override Nimrod's control over whatever manually, possibly even Nimrod himself.

    Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. There is no way at all that MODOK could take control over Nimrod. If either of them would have that happen it would be the other way around. Nimrod takes absolute control over the computers he possesses that type of control does not get taken over by someone on the outside using ctrl+alt+del.

    No, sorry, you're wrong. I'm pretty sure the guy with the giant brain and equally gargantuan intellect (not to mention monstrous inventive mind and familiarity with anything technological) could write up a virus or something similar to fucking destroy Nimrod or at least destroy his control over computers.

    Since it's fucking MODOK and he is a biological supercomputer powerful enough to grasp the workings of the Cosmic Cube. COSMIC CUBE.
    tsplitter wrote:
    what kind of security measures is AIM known to have?

    I don't think anybody actually knows for sure, but knowing AIM they can probably vaporize God.

    Except that it would be hard to upload any type of virus into Nimrod when you are totally shut out of the computers. He takes total control over it, MODOK could pound away at the keys all day long but the keystrokes would do nothing because at the other end of the terminal Nimrod has taken the computers over. If Nimrod gets to them first, it's over MODOK won't be getting them back. So while MODOK is occupied by the security system that has just been turned against him, Nimrod shape shifts to look like an AIM soldier until get gets close enough to MODOK and kills him.

    Marathon on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that MODOK does not control technology. Nimrod not only controls technology but he can physically change it and adapt it to his needs.

    I can easily see a situation where MODOK gets frustrated (MODOK getting frustrated?! That NEVER happens, oh wait) due to his over-confidence and the fact that he cannot simply use his computer devices to put a stop to Nimrod.

    Again, I'm not talking mentally controlling technology, I'm talking using his vastly superior brain to simply override Nimrod's control over whatever manually, possibly even Nimrod himself.

    Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuullshit. There is no way at all that MODOK could take control over Nimrod. If either of them would have that happen it would be the other way around. Nimrod takes absolute control over the computers he possesses that type of control does not get taken over by someone on the outside using ctrl+alt+del.

    No, sorry, you're wrong. I'm pretty sure the guy with the giant brain and equally gargantuan intellect (not to mention monstrous inventive mind and familiarity with anything technological) could write up a virus or something similar to fucking destroy Nimrod or at least destroy his control over computers.

    Since it's fucking MODOK and he is a biological supercomputer powerful enough to grasp the workings of the Cosmic Cube. COSMIC CUBE.
    tsplitter wrote:
    what kind of security measures is AIM known to have?

    I don't think anybody actually knows for sure, but knowing AIM they can probably vaporize God.

    Except that it would be hard to upload any type of virus into Nimrod when you are totally shut out of the computers. He takes total control over it, MODOK could pound away at the keys all day long but the keystrokes would do nothing because at the other end of the terminal Nimrod has taken the computers over. If Nimrod gets to them first, it's over MODOK won't be getting them back. So while MODOK is occupied by the security system that has just been turned against him, Nimrod shape shifts to look like an AIM soldier until get gets close enough to MODOK and kills him.

    Yeah, except MODOK is a high-level telepath who would notice immediately that Nimrod has disguised himself. And MODOK has a computer on him, I'm sure. After all, he has a weird floaty chair thing.

    Spectre-x on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Yeah, except MODOK is a high-level telepath who would notice immediately that Nimrod has disguised himself. And MODOK has a computer on him, I'm sure. After all, he has a weird floaty chair thing.

    I was not aware that being a telepath now made it possible to read the mind of a robot. Oh wait, it's not. And I didn't mean that he would shape shift so MODOK would be surprised, I meant he would do that to keep the AIM good off his back while he was on his way to do some killin.

    So what if modok has a computer on him. What's he gonna do, upload a virus to Nimrod via wi-fi?

    Marathon on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Yeah, except MODOK is a high-level telepath who would notice immediately that Nimrod has disguised himself. And MODOK has a computer on him, I'm sure. After all, he has a weird floaty chair thing.

    I was not aware that being a telepath now made it possible to read the mind of a robot. Oh wait, it's not. And I didn't mean that he would shape shift so MODOK would be surprised, I meant he would do that to keep the AIM good off his back while he was on his way to do some killin.

    So what if modok has a computer on him. What's he gonna do, upload a virus to Nimrod via wi-fi?

    Exactly, MODOK would not get any signal from Nimrod, making it obvious that he's not an AIM soldier but his opponent.

    Which would lead to MODOK blasting the shit out of Nimrod with his telekinesis and transmitting a virus into him or whatever, for instance.

    Spectre-x on
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Yeah, except MODOK is a high-level telepath who would notice immediately that Nimrod has disguised himself. And MODOK has a computer on him, I'm sure. After all, he has a weird floaty chair thing.

    I was not aware that being a telepath now made it possible to read the mind of a robot. Oh wait, it's not. And I didn't mean that he would shape shift so MODOK would be surprised, I meant he would do that to keep the AIM good off his back while he was on his way to do some killin.

    So what if modok has a computer on him. What's he gonna do, upload a virus to Nimrod via wi-fi?

    Exactly, MODOK would not get any signal from Nimrod, making it obvious that he's not an AIM soldier but his opponent.

    Which would lead to MODOK blasting the shit out of Nimrod with his telekinesis and transmitting a virus into him or whatever, for instance.


    Sure, and then Nimrod would adapt the virus to benefit himself and probably send it right back to MODOK's stupid fucking chair.
    MODOK is a smart computer man that is more or less crippled. Nimrod is a ultra powerful death robot created by Forge from the future with a completely adaptable arsenal of weaponry at his disposal.
    Sure MODOK could try to send him a virus but Nimrod would probably just vaporize him while he made the attempt.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Also, for anyone questioning Nimrod's adaptation capabilities consider that the X-Men never actually beat Nimrod and that he has managed on numerous occasions to have a counter-measure to every X-Man's power at the same time. That's pretty hardcore when you think about it.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Yeah, except MODOK is a high-level telepath who would notice immediately that Nimrod has disguised himself. And MODOK has a computer on him, I'm sure. After all, he has a weird floaty chair thing.

    I was not aware that being a telepath now made it possible to read the mind of a robot. Oh wait, it's not. And I didn't mean that he would shape shift so MODOK would be surprised, I meant he would do that to keep the AIM good off his back while he was on his way to do some killin.

    So what if modok has a computer on him. What's he gonna do, upload a virus to Nimrod via wi-fi?

    Exactly, MODOK would not get any signal from Nimrod, making it obvious that he's not an AIM soldier but his opponent.

    Which would lead to MODOK blasting the shit out of Nimrod with his telekinesis and transmitting a virus into him or whatever, for instance.


    Sure, and then Nimrod would adapt the virus to benefit himself and probably send it right back to MODOK's stupid fucking chair.
    MODOK is a smart computer man that is more or less crippled. Nimrod is a ultra powerful death robot created by Forge from the future with a completely adaptable arsenal of weaponry at his disposal.
    Sure MODOK could try to send him a virus but Nimrod would probably just vaporize him while he made the attempt.

    Yes, except MODOK is easily smart enough to create a virus that counters Nimrod's adaptability, or even uses it against him.

    Spectre-x on
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Marathon wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Yeah, except MODOK is a high-level telepath who would notice immediately that Nimrod has disguised himself. And MODOK has a computer on him, I'm sure. After all, he has a weird floaty chair thing.

    I was not aware that being a telepath now made it possible to read the mind of a robot. Oh wait, it's not. And I didn't mean that he would shape shift so MODOK would be surprised, I meant he would do that to keep the AIM good off his back while he was on his way to do some killin.

    So what if modok has a computer on him. What's he gonna do, upload a virus to Nimrod via wi-fi?

    Exactly, MODOK would not get any signal from Nimrod, making it obvious that he's not an AIM soldier but his opponent.

    Which would lead to MODOK blasting the shit out of Nimrod with his telekinesis and transmitting a virus into him or whatever, for instance.


    Sure, and then Nimrod would adapt the virus to benefit himself and probably send it right back to MODOK's stupid fucking chair.
    MODOK is a smart computer man that is more or less crippled. Nimrod is a ultra powerful death robot created by Forge from the future with a completely adaptable arsenal of weaponry at his disposal.
    Sure MODOK could try to send him a virus but Nimrod would probably just vaporize him while he made the attempt.

    Yes, except MODOK is easily smart enough to create a virus that counters Nimrod's adaptability, or even uses it against him.

    We can argue this both ways.
    Let me ask, does MODOK have the ability to create/upload viruses with a hole in his head?

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Can Nimrod function with several holes in him? Like, really big ones?

    Because MODOK has very powerful psychokinetic powers. And hundreds more weapons that Nimrod hasn't taken control of yet, and which can be deployed at a moment's notice, before Nimrod can react to them.

    Hell, MODOK probably has a few spare adaptoids lying around.

    Spectre-x on
  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Can Nimrod function with several holes in him? Like, really big ones?

    Actually, yes he can.

    Also, I'm calling bullshit on your "Hell he probably has a few spare adaptoids lying around".

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Milquetoast ThugMilquetoast Thug Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Oh what the fuck.. this whole "who can hack who argueent" is totally retarded, because neither side is really providing any rational for why anyside would win in a hacking contest beyond "my guy is better"

    It's all like:

    "nimrod would totally hack AIM"
    "nuh-huh, MODOK would just hack Nimrod"
    "Bullshit, He'd just hack him back, bitch."
    "Oh yeah? then he's just... uh.. counter-hack him right back!"
    "Nuh-huh!"
    "Uh-huh!"

    And I'm all like "Dude, what?"

    Jesus, let's just admit this will come down to a popularity contest, ok?
    but NImrod would still kick MODOK's ass in straight-up fight

    Milquetoast Thug on
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Oh what the fuck.. this whole "who can hack who argueent" is totally retarded, because neither side is really providing any rational for why anyside would win in a hacking contest beyond "my guy is better"

    It's all like:

    "nimrod would totally hack AIM"
    "nuh-huh, MODOK would just hack Nimrod"
    "Bullshit, He'd just hack him back, bitch."
    "Oh yeah? then he's just... uh.. counter-hack him right back!"
    "Nuh-huh!"
    "Uh-huh!"

    And I'm all like "Dude, what?"

    Jesus, let's just admit this will come down to a popularity contest, ok?
    but NImrod would still kick MODOK's ass in straight-up fight

    If it's a popularity contest then I have to change my vote, because Modock is gay as hell.

    Regina Fong on
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think it comes down to Nimrod already having information on MODOK and AIM. He's from a future where all other organizations and heroes have been taken care of and was built as a result of past failures and achievements. Somewhere that includes MODOK and all of his iterations. Unless MODOK can also gleam information from the timeline, he has no way to defeat Nimrod's defenses.

    Malkor on
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  • DraXXXenDraXXXen Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Gonna change my vote to MODOK. Re-read older Iron Man issues and really, AIM base alone would give nimrod some issues let alone it being controlled by MODOK.

    I'm pretty sure Doom rigged this match to be totally in MODOK's Favor as he must be bitter towards advanced robots (i'm sure that whole reprogrammed Ultron that turned to LOVE! left him abit jaded)

    If there are AIM troops inside the base, nimrod is extra screwed.
    If MODOK pulls more villian moves and calls in actual goons he's worked with in the past....good buy Nimrod. (common..i can totally see the Ghost and Spymaster dropping in for work)

    DraXXXen on
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  • RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Yes, except MODOK is easily smart enough to create a virus that counters Nimrod's adaptability, or even uses it against him.

    This is the same bullshit you were pulling in the Ra's/Luthor fight. Just because a competitor is CAPABLE of doing something doesn't mean he/she/it will be able to do it instantaneously, or even quickly enough to make use of it in a fight. Within 30 seconds of this fight starting, Nimrod's standing next to MODOK, blasting away.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
  • Milquetoast ThugMilquetoast Thug Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm not sure If I should put this in the voting thread or what, but this MODOK-Nimrod fight we got going on here is INTENSE. It's been tied for hours now.

    Milquetoast Thug on
  • WildcatWildcat Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    A couple of people in the voting thread have been speculating on which Mysterio this is. IIRC in a previous pre-fight discussion Doom confirmed it was a pre-suicide Beck, so I presume this stays the same for the ret of the tournament unless Doom says otherwise.

    Wildcat on
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