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[Fantasy Thread] Where E = N^(1/B)

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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    no the subject how was Robin Hobbs last trilogy?

    nexuscrawler on
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    HKPacman420HKPacman420 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I never ventured much farther than King's Dark Tower series and the LOTR books.

    HKPacman420 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    I'm currently sucked into Gene Wolfe's Book of the Short Sun series. I've never read any of his other work, so I am now very interested in the earlier stuff in this world. The method of story telling is.... interesting.

    taeric on
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    Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Beasts in Velvet, by Jack Yeovil (pen name of Kim Newman) is a fantastic, Warhammer, take on Jack the Ripper. It's got everything up to and including a Dirty Harry [strike]'rip-off'[/strike] homage.

    Alistair Hutton on
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    PureauthorPureauthor Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    What I find more fun than reading fantasy books is to go on the internet and read people tearing into awful fantasy books methodically and line by line.

    Am I alone in this?

    Pureauthor on
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    taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    Instead of just throwing out the books we're reading, any interest in steering this in the direction of "common fantasy tropes" and either the best examples of using them, or the best examples of not using them?

    taeric on
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Pureauthor wrote: »
    What I find more fun than reading fantasy books is to go on the internet and read people tearing into awful fantasy books methodically and line by line.

    Am I alone in this?

    Not really. Though I do generally enjoy fantasy, you can probably derive several degrees more enjoyment out of reading someone's paraphrasal of the more ludicrous parts of the Sword of Truth books. I don't actually ever want to read them, but reading about them is highly entertaining.

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So, no one has mentioned Twilight yet?

    Okay, I'll go kill myself now.

    Dalboz on
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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I enjoy a lot of stuff that was already mentioned (A Song of Ice and Fire, Eddings' Sparhawk books, the first 4 Wheel of Time novels, Chronicles of Amber, Malazan Book of the Fallen, etc...) .

    Antother personal favorite from my youth would be the first 2 series set in Midkemia by Raymond E. Feist (i.e. Riftwar and Serpentwar). The past few years have seen him become a commercial whore and churn out a lot of shitty and/or ghost written material, but he could craft a page turner back in the old days.

    BlackDragon480 on
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    Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You know who can suck a dick? Terry Goodkind.

    I stop reading the Sword of Truth series after the whole thing with the statue carving and stuff. But holy crap did that series of book devolved into crap. "Hey! I'm Richard! I'm perfect! I have the perfect magic! I have the perfect politics! I have the most perfect girlfriend that no one else can have sex with! I am also the king of everything perfect!". Holy crap, I cant believe I liked those books when I was a teen.

    As for the Discworld series. Call me a pedophile, but I honestly like the Tiffany Aching stories more then the majority of the Discworld stuff. Okay, Tiffany Aching stuff isnt as good as his Night Watch stuff, but the TA stuff is defiantly number 2.

    Casually Hardcore on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Butcher,%20Jim%20-%20Dresden%2007%20-%20Dead%20Beat.jpeg

    This is Dead Beat, another book in the Dresden Files.

    In this book, Harry Dresden rides a zombie tyrannosaurs rex.

    MagicPrime on
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    PureauthorPureauthor Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You know who can suck a dick? Terry Goodkind.

    I stop reading the Sword of Truth series after the whole thing with the statue carving and stuff. But holy crap did that series of book devolved into crap. "Hey! I'm Richard! I'm perfect! I have the perfect magic! I have the perfect politics! I have the most perfect girlfriend that no one else can have sex with! I am also the king of everything perfect!". Holy crap, I cant believe I liked those books when I was a teen.

    'That was no chicken. It was evil incarnate'.

    Pureauthor on
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    DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    One of the more overlooked DnD novel series was Ravenloft. The series had a lot of ups and downs, which was too bad. It actually started out really strong with Vampire of the Mists. Okay, it's a DnD novel, with a cheesy title, and written by a rookie author (Christie Golden). It was actually surprisingly good, and I would recommend it as it was republished about a year or two ago. Unfortunately the next one, Knight of the Black Rose (about Lord Soth from the Dragonlance books), was really disappointing, and the series seemed rather bipolar from that point on.

    Dalboz on
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    taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    I just found my hardback of I, Strahd the other day. I don't remember too much about it right away, other than it was a very fun read when I was a teen. It wasn't until years later that I read Dracula. (And if you haven't seen this, you should check it out.)

    taeric on
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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    no the subject how was Robin Hobbs last trilogy?
    Assuming you're talking about Soldier Son, it's fucking phenomenal. I've not read anything else by her, but I get the impression it's not in the same vein as her previous series. You can expect the protagonist to be buried under heaps of misfortune and ignominy though. The series' greatest strength is its thematic depth; it's not a light, quick adventure yarn, and if that's what you expect, you'll be very disappointed. Instead, it's at turns a surprisingly nuanced exploration of colonialist morality versus preservationist morality, personal identity, fat acceptance (turning traditonal notions of heroics on their ear), and more. If you enjoy the way fantasists like Mieville deal with themes that resonate in contemporary society, I can't recommend it enough. It's dense, cerebral fantasy, and I'm so glad I decided to read it.

    And why hasn't anyone mentioned Jack Vance yet? Good lord. That man knows words, make no mistake.

    Grid System on
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    SolandraSolandra Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The Dresden Files are fabulous - not "literature" but the voice is solid and they're fun.

    I'll second David Edding's Belgariad and Elenium as decent popcorn novels with stock characters and amusing dialog - and the bonus of an adolescent but non-whining hero in the Belgariad, and a sexy older knight as the protagonist in the Elenium.

    Shoot me now, but I can put away Charlaine Harris's Sookie Stackhouse novels at a ridiculous pace.

    I enjoy Robin McKinley's works pretty universally - she does a lot of retelling of classic fairytales. "Rose Daughter", The Blue Sword, Sunshine, The Hero and the Crown, Deerskin - some of it is light and stock, some of it, like Deerskin, can be downright gruesome.

    Naomi Novick's Termeraire novels, historical fantasy about the flying dragon corps during the Napoleonic war, read like the love child of the old Horatio Hornblower novels and Ann McCaffrey's original Pern novels.

    I've found that after the first trilogy or two, a fantasy author starts to pall on me if they're not on their toes with exposition in the later works. There are later McCaffrey novels and series where I feel like there's little attempt to bring in new readers - or people who haven't read the prior 18 books set in that world or universe. Same is true for Mercedes Lackey's books.

    When I was a teen I loved the Shannara books by Terry Brooks, these days I can't get past Shea whining in book one to enjoy the rest.

    Solandra on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    no the subject how was Robin Hobbs last trilogy?
    Assuming you're talking about Soldier Son, it's fucking phenomenal. I've not read anything else by her, but I get the impression it's not in the same vein as her previous series. You can expect the protagonist to be buried under heaps of misfortune and ignominy though. The series' greatest strength is its thematic depth; it's not a light, quick adventure yarn, and if that's what you expect, you'll be very disappointed. Instead, it's at turns a surprisingly nuanced exploration of colonialist morality versus preservationist morality, personal identity, fat acceptance (turning traditonal notions of heroics on their ear), and more. If you enjoy the way fantasists like Mieville deal with themes that resonate in contemporary society, I can't recommend it enough. It's dense, cerebral fantasy, and I'm so glad I decided to read it.

    It's also really slow, boring, turgid and horribly, horribly emo (even more then either of her Fitz series).

    I'd recommend her other series way before Soldier Son. If you like Hobb though, it's worth a look.

    shryke on
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    Grid SystemGrid System Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Sometimes I wonder why people like you even bother reading.

    Grid System on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    I think the problem with fantasy is that so much of it is stultifyingly generic that reading it ends up like the literary equivalent of eating endless tubs of ice cream. Sure, it's tasty and you like it, but you end up with a headache and your teeth fall out. In a literary sense.

    I've pretty much given up on fantasy these days, but still treasure gems like Bridge of Birds or Little, Big. Well-written stuff that doesn't use the bumper kit of fantasy cliche for a plot. Stuff like the very strange stories of William Hope Hodgson, the solidly entertaining Lankhmar tales of Fritz Lieber, the erudite and layered Neveryona books of Samuel R Delaney or the disturbing tales of Johnathan Caroll. Or of course Gene Wolfe, whose Wizard Knight books took the hoariest of cliches and made them feel fresh and dangerous again.

    Generally, you get this kind of stuff coming out of people who know Fantasy only from walking into Chapters/Barnes&Noble/etc and staring at the wall of D&D books and shit with dragons on the cover.

    99% of every type of literature is stupefyingly generic crap too. It's all about digging up the gems. And fantasy has as many as any other type of literature.

    shryke on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Sometimes I wonder why people like you even bother reading.

    Usually not to listen to a fat ass whine for 1000 pages about the same thing over and over again.

    There's about 1 books worth of plot in that series stretched across 3 books and then padded out with hours upon hours of repetitive emo self-reflection.

    shryke on
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    mrdobalinamrdobalina Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Yay! Another reading thread!!!

    But seriously people, I know A Song of Fire and Ice is greatsauce (I like it a lot), and yes the Sword of Truth went from "Hm...this could be interesting" to "this is crap" really fucking fast, but shame on all of you for making it to page three without mentioning Earthsea.

    Seriously, I demand penance for this.

    For the uninitiated, it's fantasy that's written without a heavy hand and with sparse prose. It's GREAT.

    Kudos for mentioning Jonathan Strange...hot damn that book is awesome.

    mrdobalina on
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    ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    In this book, Harry Dresden rides a zombie tyrannosaurs rex.

    If you haven't read this series, and that one line doesn't get you to start reading it...you may be in the wrong thread.

    Thomamelas on
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    rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I've read way too much fantasy, good and bad. Especially the recent releases from the last 5 years.

    Put another recommendation down for Butcher's Dresden Files. He's on book 12 I believe and they're great. They actually get better for the first several books with the first (Storm Front) being the worst in the series (but still not bad). It's fun popcorn urban fantasy.

    I wish there was more like Dresden Files, but sadly it seems a lot of the contemporary supernatural is really romantic supernatural. Not trying to be sexist, but they are all written by female authors. Romantic fantasy is fine, it's just not my thing.

    Examples of things I don't want include: Anita Blake (especially after book 6 or so), Weather Warden series by Rachel Cane, Sookie Stackhouse, Lackey's series about the werecoyote, Twilight series, the list goes on...

    Examples of things I DO want include: Dresden Files, Simon Green's Nightside Novels, Gaiman's Neverwhere & American Gods

    The Rachel Morgan series I'm kind of on the fence about. I enjoyed it, and hated myself for enjoying it despite the vampire sex crap. I was however disappointed in the last installment when things didn't progress into
    the demon world where I thought there should have been more time of Rachel being over there w/ Al and learning new crap and finding out more about their society.

    rockmonkey on
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    LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I'll throw in another vote for The Last Unicorn. Books I loved as a kid and still love: The Book of Three series (Lloyd Alexander) and Howl's Moving Castle (Dianna Wynne Jones.) Anything by Terry Pratchett is excellent, of course.

    Anyone heard of Martin Millar? I picked a book of his (The Good Fairies of New York) out at random from the fantasy carousel in the library and was surprised to find an introduction from Neil Gaiman basically saying "This man should be as well-known as Terry Pratchett, WHY HAS NO ONE HEARD OF HIM?". Hilarious book, too.

    LadyM on
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    zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    @rockmonkey
    You'll like Joe Pitt, but then again, everybody does.
    Kate Daniels's series has super fun world building and story lines and so far is toning down the romantic side.

    zeeny on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Spoit wrote: »
    Hachface wrote: »
    Glenn Cook's Black Company books have caught my interest. My question is: are they well-written? Epic plots and kewl characters are nice, but if a book isn't written well on a word by word level it will just drive me crazy.

    From what I remember, it's very very terse prose. And because of the limited viewpoint, there are a few times where it gets a bit WTF from lack of explination. And it also gets really weird in later books. Still fun though.

    Terse is good, especially in fantasy. Too many fantasy authors strain themselves to write in a florid style that is frankly beyond their ability to pull off, and this totally undermines their efforts to create a convincing world.

    Hachface on
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    BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    It's good to see all the Jim Butcher/Dresden love. I enjoy seeing locals from my area succeed and Butcher lives about 15 minutes from me.

    His other series Codex Alera, is fairly entertaining as well, although it sacrifices depth of world creation for a fast pace and maintaining tension. But it is a pretty good work, considering it's impetus was a bet made on an online message board that Butcher couldn't write a story based around the ideas of Pokemon and the Lost Legion.

    BlackDragon480 on
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    rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    For epic fantasy I've read (I'll rate them with 1-5 *'s):

    Hobbit *****
    LoTR ****
    Amber Chronicles 1-5 *****
    Amber Chronicles 6-10 ****
    Dark Tower **
    Name of the Wind ****
    Gentlemen Bastards ****
    First Law Trilogy ****
    ColdFire ***
    Riftwar Sage ****
    Sword of Truth *
    Wheel of Time ***
    Soilder Son ***
    Farseer ****
    Song of Ice and Fire *****
    Prince of Nothing ***
    Dritz (most of it anyways) **
    Malazan Book of the Fallen *****
    Mistborn ****
    Shannara ***
    Inheritance **
    Harry Potter ***
    Artemis Fowl **
    Bartemaius Trilogy ***
    Dragonriders of Pern (mixed bag, but overall) ***

    That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Those are based on my personal taste and I know several people would argue greatly with it. I'm sure there is more That I've left out.

    edit: Adding:

    Codex Alera ***

    rockmonkey on
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    rockmonkeyrockmonkey Little RockRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    zeeny wrote: »
    @rockmonkey
    You'll like Joe Pitt, but then again, everybody does.
    Kate Daniels's series has super fun world building and story lines and so far is toning down the romantic side.

    Forgot about Joe Pitt, read I think the first 4 so far, took a break and forgot to go back, but I did like them.

    Kate Daniels.. those are the ones named like, Magic ____ (Burns, Bites, Strikes, ???) I DO like those. I like how magic and tech are opposite and one pushes the other out.

    rockmonkey on
    NEWrockzomb80.jpg
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Raistlin Majere is a better character than his series would indicate.

    Hachface on
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    taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    Hachface wrote: »
    Raistlin Majere is a better character than his series would indicate.

    Though, I am liking Elric more.

    taeric on
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    SlicerSlicer Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Pureauthor wrote: »
    You know who can suck a dick? Terry Goodkind.

    I stop reading the Sword of Truth series after the whole thing with the statue carving and stuff. But holy crap did that series of book devolved into crap. "Hey! I'm Richard! I'm perfect! I have the perfect magic! I have the perfect politics! I have the most perfect girlfriend that no one else can have sex with! I am also the king of everything perfect!". Holy crap, I cant believe I liked those books when I was a teen.

    'That was no chicken. It was evil incarnate'.

    Someone needs to post the part where the protagonist mercilessly slaughters a bunch of hippies because they opposed a war.

    Slicer on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Rockmonkey.

    Add the Dresden Files to your list. You can tear through all 12 books in like 2 months.

    MagicPrime on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Slicer wrote: »
    Pureauthor wrote: »
    You know who can suck a dick? Terry Goodkind.

    I stop reading the Sword of Truth series after the whole thing with the statue carving and stuff. But holy crap did that series of book devolved into crap. "Hey! I'm Richard! I'm perfect! I have the perfect magic! I have the perfect politics! I have the most perfect girlfriend that no one else can have sex with! I am also the king of everything perfect!". Holy crap, I cant believe I liked those books when I was a teen.

    'That was no chicken. It was evil incarnate'.

    Someone needs to post the part where the protagonist mercilessly slaughters a bunch of hippies because they opposed a war.

    You lack moral clarity.

    Edit: Here we go:
    some idiot wrote:
    "No war! No war! No war!" the people shouted as Richard led the men up the street at a dead run.
    "Out of the way!" Richard yelled as he closed the distance. This was no time for subtlety or discussions: the success of their attack depended in large part on speed. "Get out of the way! This is your only warning! Get out of the way or die!"
    "Stop the hate! Stop the hate!" the people chanted as they locked arms.
    They had no idea how much hate was raging through Richard. He drew the Sword of Truth. The wrath of its magic didn't come out with it, but he had enough of his own. He slowed to a trot.
    "Move!" Richard called as he bore down on the people.
    A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
    "Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
    The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
    On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man mad the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
    Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead. The line of people collapsed before the merciless charge. Some of the people, screaming their contempt, used their fists to attack Richard's men. They were met with swift and deadly steel.
    At the realization that their defense of the Imperial Order's brutality would actually result in consequences to themselves, the crowd began scattering in fright, screaming curses back at Richard and his men."

    Hachface on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Ok came in here and now I just learned that Pratchett has Alzheimer's.

    So sad right now (also feel dumb that I didn't know this before)

    you fucks are making me tear up at work are you happy now?

    Arch on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Arch wrote: »
    Ok came in here and now I just learned that Pratchett has Alzheimer's.

    So sad right now (also feel dumb that I didn't know this before)

    you fucks are making me tear up at work are you happy now?

    I'm feeling pretty good about it.

    You pansy.

    shryke on
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    hottoqhottoq Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Am reading Perdido Street Station right now by China Mieville. It's certainly interesting, great world-building that really stokes the imagination, all the different "races" and constructs and the Remade. I just don't love the actual plot/characters too much so it's making for a slow read.

    For those who have read his other books in the Bas-Lag universe, I know they aren't sequels and don't feature the same characters -- so do you think I'll like those better? Or is it just more of the same (not that that's a bad thing)?

    hottoq on
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    MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The mailman walked towards my office door, half an hour earlier than usual. He didn't sound right. His footsteps fell more heavily, jauntily, and he whistled. A new guy. He whistled his way to my office door and then fell silent for a moment. Then he laughed.

    Then he knocked.

    I winced. My mail comes through the mail slot unless it's registered. I get a really limited selection of registered mail, and it's never good news. I got up out of my office chair and opened the door.

    The new mailman looked like a basketball with arms and legs and a sunburned, balding head, and he stood chuckling and reading the sign on the door glass. He glanced at me and hooked a thumb towards the office glass. "You're kidding, right?"

    I read the sign (people change it occasionally), and shook my head. "No, I'm serious. Can I have my mail, please."

    "So, uh. Like parties, shows, stuff like that?" He looked past me, as though he expected to see a white tiger, or possibly some skimpily clad assistants prancing around my one-room office.

    I sighed, not in the mood to get mocked again, and reached for the mail he held in his hand. "No, not like that. I don't do parties."

    He held on to it, his head tilted curiously. "So what? Some kinda fortuneteller? Cards and crystal balls and things?"

    "No," I told him. "I'm not a psychic." I tugged at the mail.

    He held onto it. "What are you, then?"

    "What's the sign on the door say?"

    "It says 'Harry Dresden. Wizard.'"

    "That's me," I confirmed.

    MagicPrime on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    shryke wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Ok came in here and now I just learned that Pratchett has Alzheimer's.

    So sad right now (also feel dumb that I didn't know this before)

    you fucks are making me tear up at work are you happy now?

    I'm feeling pretty good about it.

    You pansy.

    o_O


    i am either
    :x
    or
    :(

    depending on how you want me to take that....


    SO ANYWAY- Feist's new novel thing...about demons and whatnot? Is it any good?

    Arch on
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    Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    I'm listening to the entire Wheel of time series.

    Having never read it before.

    Pikapuff would have a shit fit about it, as these books go out of their way to spoil themselves with the god damned methods of laying out the general plot.

    Still pretty good. I just finished book five.
    I feel sorry for the poor bastards who have to read out books 9 and on

    Interestingly enoughm the narrator changes depending on who the chapter is focused on. There is a male narrator for male lead chapters and a female narrator for female chapters.

    I guess their saving grace is that every book after six is pretty short in comparison.

    Jordan has some strange ideas about a lot of things, especially his crazy view on the sexes, but since I've made it this far anyways...

    Xenogears of Bore on
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