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[Fantasy Thread] Where E = N^(1/B)

1235736

Posts

  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    I'm listening to the entire Wheel of time series.

    Having never read it before.

    Pikapuff would have a shit fit about it, as these books go out of their way to spoil themselves with the god damned methods of laying out the general plot.

    Still pretty good. I just finished book five.
    I feel sorry for the poor bastards who have to read out books 9 and on

    Interestingly enoughm the narrator changes depending on who the chapter is focused on. There is a male narrator for male lead chapters and a female narrator for female chapters.

    I guess their saving grace is that every book after six is pretty short in comparison.

    Jordan has some strange ideas about a lot of things, especially his crazy view on the sexes, but since I've made it this far anyways...
    hahaha oh it gets so much worse. I'm going to remind you about this post in a few months :P

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dalboz wrote: »
    There also seems to be issue of how much people don't like Covenant. The problem is that people don't seem to realize that that's the point.

    This is a terrible premise for a book about anything. Even characters you would not like as a person should be likable as fictional characters because they are interesting, entertaining, etc.

    Covenant is none of these things. He is a winy git. And a scumbag.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2009
    I don't think Covenant is a terrible person. He's just a realistic one. He's a loner and a leper and is wracked by guilt. I empathised with him a lot more than the usual fantasy fare of 'muscled sword-wielding hero 8', or 'proud and skillful but also tragic and feisty heroine 6' and 'amusing and physically odd wisecracking sidekick 9'.

    Bogart on
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Just because Covenant is not a typical fantasy protagonist does not make him a good character, or even a realistic one.

    I think it's fine for an author to write characters of questionable morals, but even if the protagonist of the story is a horrid villain, readers have to be able to be able to empathize with the character, even through all the horrible stuff the character might do. Donaldson basically thought of the saddest sack of shit in the world, dumped him into a fantastic realm and said "FOLLOW HIM" in the omnipotent voice of The Creator. I'm sorry, but being the saddest sack of shit in the universe is simply not enough of a premise for me to empathize with a character. I could've forgiven the rape, the insanity, and the endless whining if Donaldson had made me see some part of myself in Covenant. But with a personality so contrived and circumstances so absurd, he left me with nothing. Covenant is not a character, he is a caricature.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
  • YamiNoSenshiYamiNoSenshi A point called Z In the complex planeRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I read the first two Sword Of Truth novels. Then I must have had my brains unscrambled or something, because 10 pages into the third one I realized it was complete rubbish. All I could think was "Everything is written twice. Why is he saying everything twice? Please stop describing the same thing multiple time. Why are characters repeating themselves verbatim two sentences in a row. This is horrible." Then I re-read another Pratchett book because I was out of brain bleach.

    YamiNoSenshi on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2009
    Just because Covenant is not a typical fantasy protagonist does not make him a good character, or even a realistic one.

    I think it's fine for an author to write characters of questionable morals, but even if the protagonist of the story is a horrid villain, readers have to be able to be able to empathize with the character, even through all the horrible stuff the character might do. Donaldson basically thought of the saddest sack of shit in the world, dumped him into a fantastic realm and said "FOLLOW HIM" in the omnipotent voice of The Creator. I'm sorry, but being the saddest sack of shit in the universe is simply not enough of a premise for me to empathize with a character. I could've forgiven the rape, the insanity, and the endless whining if Donaldson had made me see some part of myself in Covenant. But with a personality so contrived and circumstances so absurd, he left me with nothing. Covenant is not a character, he is a caricature.

    I would obviously disagree, and think you're over-egging the pudding of Covenant's wretchedness. Like I say, unlike you, I found stuff in Covenant to empathise with.

    Bogart on
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    That's fine. I won't shit on Donaldson any more than I shit on Martin. I'm all for discussion and debate, but at a certain point we're all just going to cling to what we like. I think the best use of this thread is to find fantasy authors and books I'm unfamiliar with, and I certainly don't want to get in the way of that for anyone else.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
  • Bullfrogof7272Bullfrogof7272 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I'd like to toss Jaqueline Carey into the mix. Her first pair of fantasy books Banewreaker and Godslayer, are decent if not amazing. However her later "Kushiel's Legacy" novels are fantastic. Some of te most richly detailed characters and settings in any fantasy i have ever read. They're set in a sort of alt-europe circa 1500's - ish. It's kinda hard to pind down but you can usually tell what country she is basing a given location off of fairly quickly. These books can get pretty dark, but handle sexuality in an incredibly mature fashion. My wife turned me on to them a few years back and have re-read this series twice since then, and I almost never re-read books.

    Bullfrogof7272 on
    the hammer, is my penis.
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    I don't think Covenant is a terrible person.

    Yes, yes he is.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I don't think Covenant is a terrible person.

    Yes, yes he is.

    Convincing stuff.

    Bogart on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I read the first two Sword Of Truth novels. Then I must have had my brains unscrambled or something, because 10 pages into the third one I realized it was complete rubbish. All I could think was "Everything is written twice. Why is he saying everything twice? Please stop describing the same thing multiple time. Why are characters repeating themselves verbatim two sentences in a row. This is horrible." Then I re-read another Pratchett book because I was out of brain bleach.

    Well, now you've learned your lesson.

    shryke on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I don't think Covenant is a terrible person.

    Yes, yes he is.

    Convincing stuff.

    Non-terrible people don't rape people. This should be basic common sense.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I don't think Covenant is a terrible person.

    Yes, yes he is.

    Convincing stuff.

    Non-terrible people don't rape people. This should be basic common sense.

    And if it's because he believes that none of it is actually real and it doesn't matter, that it's nothing but a dream?

    Again, it seems to be the hang-up on one scene, which seems to cause the more sensitive readers to completely disregard the central premise of the series. Admittedly, Covenant being considered something of a caricature is somewhat true in the first book, as the first book seems to have a heavier focus more on establishing the characters and learning about the Land, and the story arc in Covenant's character follows a pretty typical path in the first book. It's not until the second book that thing truly diverge and Covenant goes through real change and self-discovery, as well as realizing the consequences of his actions. The reader doesn't really empathize that much with Covenant until the second book, anyway, and it hits home much harder at the end of the second book. Covenant is a protagonist, not a hero.

    Dalboz on
  • SolandraSolandra Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    poshniallo wrote: »
    However, a pair of books I love much more is Mordants Need. There are two books - The Mirror of Her Dreams and A Man Rides Through It.

    They're about a woman who is magically transported to another world, and due to the horrible abusive drabness of her life takes a view that is similar yet opposite to Covenant's.

    She decides she might not be real, and may in fact be a creation of magic. These books are pure Romance - they have amazing swordfights, an original and clever magic system, debates on the Philosophy of Magic, another wonderfully manipulative villain, and a lovely intertextual nod to King Lear and perhaps even Henry V.

    I read Mordant's Need before the Chronicles, and that's probably the only thing that allowed me to finish the Chronicles. In Mordant's Need, I really like the psychology of the heroine, I can identify with her, sympathize with her, cheer her on and be frightened with her of the things going on around her. Thomas Covenant is edgy and original and Donaldson pulls off making an unsympathetic awful character into a bestseller, but Covenant is so unsympathetic, and so awful that I just can't enjoy the rest of the world. Donaldson wrote a scifi trilogy just after A Man Rides Through It that was dark and wonderful and I really think I'm about to go to Amazon and look the dumb thing up because I can't remember the title.

    Solandra on
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dalboz wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    I don't think Covenant is a terrible person.

    Yes, yes he is.

    Convincing stuff.

    Non-terrible people don't rape people. This should be basic common sense.

    And if it's because he believes that none of it is actually real and it doesn't matter, that it's nothing but a dream?

    Again, it seems to be the hang-up on one scene, which seems to cause the more sensitive readers to completely disregard the central premise of the series. Admittedly, Covenant being considered something of a caricature is somewhat true in the first book, as the first book seems to have a heavier focus more on establishing the characters and learning about the Land, and the story arc in Covenant's character follows a pretty typical path in the first book. It's not until the second book that thing truly diverge and Covenant goes through real change and self-discovery, as well as realizing the consequences of his actions. The reader doesn't really empathize that much with Covenant until the second book, anyway, and it hits home much harder at the end of the second book. Covenant is a protagonist, not a hero.

    It might very well be true that Covenant undergoes real change in the later books. I wouldn't know, I haven't read them. You're basically saying that the first book was nothing more than setup. The question is, should a reader have to endure ~400 pages of setup? For my part, this is not a feasible way to tell a good story.

    GoodKingJayIII on
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dalboz wrote: »
    And if it's because he believes that none of it is actually real and it doesn't matter, that it's nothing but a dream?

    Nope, still a terrible person. You are demonstrating an appalling lack of empathy. Having moral character is about doing the right thing for it's own sake.
    Again, it seems to be the hang-up on one scene, which seems to cause the more sensitive readers to completely disregard the central premise of the series.

    One scene that is just the capstone of the terribleness of the whole.

    Every scene leading up to that scene is also bad, just not as bad.
    Admittedly, Covenant being considered something of a caricature is somewhat true in the first book, as the first book seems to have a heavier focus more on establishing the characters and learning about the Land, and the story arc in Covenant's character follows a pretty typical path in the first book. It's not until the second book that thing truly diverge and Covenant goes through real change and self-discovery, as well as realizing the consequences of his actions.

    Series that "don't get good until Book X" are terrible.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • YamiNoSenshiYamiNoSenshi A point called Z In the complex planeRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »

    Series that "don't get good until Book X" are terrible.

    What you're really saying here is "Books 1 through (X-1) are bad." And if that comprises 1200+ pages of text, there's no way book X is worth it. I'd rather read one of the many series that are good right from the get-go.

    YamiNoSenshi on
  • PureauthorPureauthor Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Wait, wait, isn't the whole point of the Covenant series that Covenant is a douchebag in the beginning?

    Pureauthor on
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  • DalbozDalboz Resident Puppy Eater Right behind you...Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Dalboz wrote: »
    And if it's because he believes that none of it is actually real and it doesn't matter, that it's nothing but a dream?

    Nope, still a terrible person. You are demonstrating an appalling lack of empathy. Having moral character is about doing the right thing for it's own sake.

    No, I just get what Donaldson was trying to do here. A terrible act, yes, but needed to be taken in context as a whole for the sake of the story. Covenant himself is not a very moral person. If you can't get beyond the idea that the only viable stories are "Morally-superior Grand Hero X goes to fight the Big Bad and wins because he's so morally superior," then you're going get stuck with a lot of bland characters and miss out on a lot of good and interesting literature that's out there.

    Dalboz on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dalboz wrote: »
    No, I just get what Donaldson was trying to do here.

    I don't care what he was trying to do.
    Covenant himself is not a very moral person. If you can't get beyond the idea that the only viable stories are "Morally-superior Grand Hero X goes to fight the Big Bad and wins because he's so morally superior," then you're going get stuck with a lot of bland characters and miss out on a lot of good and interesting literature that's out there.

    The protagonist doesn't need to be morally superior, but he does need to at least approach what I would consider the baseline of average human decency. Which includes things like not raping people.

    Alternatively, he can be a love-to-hate villain like Bester or Xanatos.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    No one has mentioned David Gemmel yet. I'm going to have to remedy this, because his books are great.

    I basically consider them to be Guy Candy. Fantastic heroes, consummate warriors in various ways, but never without flaws. The books tend to be based more on history than traditional fantasy: no elves or orcs or dragons, but wars between nations or singular quests, with the occasional supernatural element, spirit seers and demons and the like.

    I think my brothers and I have read something like 25 of his books, and enjoyed them all. We started with his first one, Legend, which is an excellent place to start, but the Rigante series would also be a good point to jump in, starting with Sword in the Storm. The books are pretty much all interconnected somehow, but there's no particular order one needs to read most of them in.

    Somebody mentioned a lack of homosexual themes in fantasy, so I might as well mention Quest for Lost Heroes, too. Woo gay protagonists.

    Other authors: Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories were mentioned, but only once, and I think they bear a closer look. They're less well known, but they were nearly as influential on the genre as Tolkein was, and were written around the same time. Swashbuckling at its finest.

    Also, I just recently read the first book of The Sharing Knife, by Lois McMasters Bujold. It's basically a romance set in a fantasy world, but well written, and so I've considered it as a go-to suggestion to fans of Twilight. Previously, I had been suggesting Sabriel by Garth Nix, due to its dark themes and young female protagonist, but I think a greater emphasis on the romantic might be what's needed to get all of those people to start reading good books.

    (I still suggest the Abhorsen trilogy, though. Great books.)

    Tarantio on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    I'm listening to the entire Wheel of time series.

    Having never read it before.

    Pikapuff would have a shit fit about it, as these books go out of their way to spoil themselves with the god damned methods of laying out the general plot.

    Still pretty good. I just finished book five.
    I feel sorry for the poor bastards who have to read out books 9 and on

    Interestingly enoughm the narrator changes depending on who the chapter is focused on. There is a male narrator for male lead chapters and a female narrator for female chapters.

    I guess their saving grace is that every book after six is pretty short in comparison.

    Jordan has some strange ideas about a lot of things, especially his crazy view on the sexes, but since I've made it this far anyways...
    hahaha oh it gets so much worse. I'm going to remind you about this post in a few months :P

    I've been prewarned by another person who has read all of these books.

    He said that:

    "The first four books are pretty good, even though the pacing of the first book is really slow."

    "The next two are really long and kinda boring, but since you've read the first four, you might as well keep going."

    "The next three are thankfully shorter, but they kinda suck, are goofy, and take too long to get anything done, but now you are over halfway done, and they are shorter than 4-6, so you might as well keep going."

    and he said something about 10 and 11 that I can't remember.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • nosnibornosnibor Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    There was a time when, if I started a book, I just had to finish it, no matter how bad it was. I applied the same standard to series as well. Unfortunately, during this time I read all of the first 6 Covenant books and kept reading the WOT series long after it had stagnated.

    Fortunately, I grew out of that shit. And years later there is nothing positive I can remember out of the Covenant books. I just remember that it was really depressing and boring.

    nosnibor on
    When you're a spy, it's a good idea to give away your trade secrets in a voiceover on a TV show.
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So as someone who found the first set of books alright (having read his Gap series first, Covenent doesn't seem anywhere near as bad - but the world seemed a little dull and almost children's fantasy at first), but quite enjoyed the second - is the most recent Thomas Covenent book worth reading? Rune of the earth or something like that?

    Tastyfish on
  • GungHoGungHo Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    "The first four books are pretty good, even though the pacing of the first book is really slow."

    "The next two are really long and kinda boring, but since you've read the first four, you might as well keep going."

    "The next three are thankfully shorter, but they kinda suck, are goofy, and take too long to get anything done, but now you are over halfway done, and they are shorter than 4-6, so you might as well keep going."

    and he said something about 10 and 11 that I can't remember.
    Statements like that are how people end up in the middle of the Utah desert with an empty gas tank.

    GungHo on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    GungHo wrote: »
    "The first four books are pretty good, even though the pacing of the first book is really slow."

    "The next two are really long and kinda boring, but since you've read the first four, you might as well keep going."

    "The next three are thankfully shorter, but they kinda suck, are goofy, and take too long to get anything done, but now you are over halfway done, and they are shorter than 4-6, so you might as well keep going."

    and he said something about 10 and 11 that I can't remember.
    Statements like that are how people end up in the middle of the Utah desert with an empty gas tank.

    His friend also has crappy taste. FoH and LoC boring?

    shryke on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    When I was in 6th grade or so, I came across a series of books called "Dealing with Dragons."

    It was all about turning fantasy and fairy tale stereotypes on their head.

    The main character was a princess who was brunette and not blond who ran away to live with a dragon, who later became the dragon King even though she was a female dragon because "King" was higher than "Queen." She was allied with a witch, who was so tidy that though she melted when hit by water she was safe around soapy water. They used soapy water with a hint of lemon to melt evil wizards.

    Very amusing series at that age.

    Incenjucar on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    [snip]

    The only really bad WoT books are 9 and 10.

    There are some pretty terrible parts to some of the others though, like Tanchico.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    When I was in 6th grade or so, I came across a series of books called "Dealing with Dragons."

    It was all about turning fantasy and fairy tale stereotypes on their head.

    The main character was a princess who was brunette and not blond who ran away to live with a dragon, who later became the dragon King even though she was a female dragon because "King" was higher than "Queen." She was allied with a witch, who was so tidy that though she melted when hit by water she was safe around soapy water. They used soapy water with a hint of lemon to melt evil wizards.

    Very amusing series at that age.

    The Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C Wrede.

    EXCELLENT Young Adult/Children's Fantasy.

    shryke on
  • nosnibornosnibor Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    [snip]

    The only really bad WoT books are 9 and 10.

    There are some pretty terrible parts to some of the others though, like Tanchico.

    Knife of Something and Crossroads of Twilight? Those blew chunks. I can't remember a lot of details about the other books, except the supremely ridiculous polyamory and the kickass battle wizard stuff.

    addendum: I can't actually remember if Knife of Something was one of the bad ones. Now that I think of it one of the "nothing fucking happens" books near the end of the series may have had Winter in the title.

    nosnibor on
    When you're a spy, it's a good idea to give away your trade secrets in a voiceover on a TV show.
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    nosnibor wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    [snip]

    The only really bad WoT books are 9 and 10.

    There are some pretty terrible parts to some of the others though, like Tanchico.

    Knife of Something and Crossroads of Twilight? Those blew chunks. I can't remember a lot of details about the other books, except the supremely ridiculous polyamory and the kickass battle wizard stuff.

    addendum: I can't actually remember if Knife of Something was one of the bad ones. Now that I think of it one of the "nothing fucking happens" books near the end of the series may have had Winter in the title.

    Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight.

    Knife of Dreams is Book 11 and is good.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    shryke wrote: »
    The Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C Wrede.

    EXCELLENT Young Adult/Children's Fantasy.

    Yes!

    They were a perfect antidote to the Xanth novels that the library kept as its major young adult fantasy. D:

    Incenjucar on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited August 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    The protagonist doesn't need to be morally superior, but he does need to at least approach what I would consider the baseline of average human decency. Which includes things like not raping people.

    Alternatively, he can be a love-to-hate villain like Bester or Xanatos.

    So any protagonist who does something morally reprehensible like, say, murdering someone means you instantly can't bear to go any further? So something like Suskind's Perfume or, say, MacBeth just doesn't make the grade?

    And claiming that series that don't get good until book X are terrible as a rule makes your attachment to the Wheel of Time novels pretty inconsistent. Unless series that start good , then get dull, then remain dull and then the author dies are ok somehow. Besides, Lord Foul's Bane is, in my opinion anyway, an excellent beginning to the series.

    Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

    Bogart on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hamlet drove his girlfriend to suicide while he prevaricated on revenging his father's murder.

    Heathcliff is a shit.

    God there are so many flawed protagonists I couldn't begin to count them. How many action heroes are murderers? Especially since the 'he'ssafeandincuffsOHNOHE'sGOTAGUN!!!!' ending became cliche?

    Covenant did something terrible while under immense stress and confusion.

    What he does about it afterwards? That's an interesting story.

    and HamHam, you're an idiot for accusing other people of lacking empathy because they can empathise with imperfect people.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The first WoT book is actually a pretty decent novel. The rest of the series goes dramatically down hill from there. I was reading them out of the library, and after the first three or four books I started to feel ripped off for something I wasn't even paying for.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Bogart wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    The protagonist doesn't need to be morally superior, but he does need to at least approach what I would consider the baseline of average human decency. Which includes things like not raping people.

    Alternatively, he can be a love-to-hate villain like Bester or Xanatos.

    So any protagonist who does something morally reprehensible like, say, murdering someone means you instantly can't bear to go any further? So something like Suskind's Perfume or, say, MacBeth just doesn't make the grade?

    Murdering people is fine. In fact, it can be quite amusing in and of itself.

    Though MacBeth is far from my favorite Shakespeare play.
    And claiming that series that don't get good until book X are terrible as a rule makes your attachment to the Wheel of Time novels pretty inconsistent. Unless series that start good , then get dull, then remain dull and then the author dies are ok somehow.

    Starting good and having a weak middle is fine because by then you're already hooked.
    poshniallo wrote: »
    and HamHam, you're an idiot for accusing other people of lacking empathy because they can empathise with imperfect people.

    What? I accused Covenant of lacking empathy because he fucking raped someone.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Dalboz wrote: »
    And if it's because he believes that none of it is actually real and it doesn't matter, that it's nothing but a dream?

    Nope, still a terrible person. You are demonstrating an appalling lack of empathy. Having moral character is about doing the right thing for it's own sake.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Regarding Wheel of Time.

    Books 4 and 5 (I'm still in the million hour long prologue of 6 so I won't comment on that) have some really boring parts.

    Yes, I get it Jordan. Bunch of stubborn people battling wills. Yes, I get it, the crazy Dune Samurais have weird customs.

    Those books are saved by having Matt involved in the action. He's rarely involved in anything boring. Same with Thom and Perrin, but to a lesser extent. So far my favorite book is the one that barely has Rand in it at all, even though when his chapters get interesting, they get interesting.

    As far as the women folk go I usually don't mind those chapters, but every other one is just boring infighting.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • WashWash Sweet Christmas Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Corvus wrote: »
    Oh, and speaking of historical/fantasy, I really like most of Guy Gavriel Kay's stuff, particularly the two book The Sarantine Mosaic and The Last Light of the Sun. Alternate versions of European history with just tiny touches of magic or the otherworld. I did not care for his Ysabel much at all, it was a different kind of story, not a historical fantasy which is fine, but not up to his usual standards of writing IMO.

    Finally, one of my favourite fantasy authors is mentioned! Ysabel is better enjoyed after you've read Kay's Fionavar Tapestry, as while Fionavar is often referenced in his other books, two of the main characters of his trilogy are in Ysabel, with the main character being the nephew of one. Also, while he does a lot of historical fantasy, the Fionavar Tapestry and Ysabel are the only books of his I know that focus on characters from our world (though FT takes place in a fantasy world).

    Of his historical fantasy books, the one I enjoyed most was A Song for Arbonne, which was a spin on the Cathar Crusade.

    Wash on
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    poshniallo wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Dalboz wrote: »
    And if it's because he believes that none of it is actually real and it doesn't matter, that it's nothing but a dream?

    Nope, still a terrible person. You are demonstrating an appalling lack of empathy. Having moral character is about doing the right thing for it's own sake.

    You refers to the person doing the raping because they think it's not real. I suppose that wasn't clear though.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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