As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2
[CITY BUILDING MEGATHREAD] Tropico 3 Demo Out!
Kris_xK
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Ah, City Building. There's nothing quite like the joy of creating an entire city full of (digitally) breathing people, building them entertainment areas and business, ports and government buildings and watching it grow to monumental heights. Then; if you're anything like me, you grow tired of their petty and insolent demands and drop a couple of tornadoes in the downtown area (I'm a fickle god).
Yes, this thread is about City Building games. Influenced by Tycho's Spacesim Megathread and my recent discovery of Anno 1404 (Dawn of Discovery), I'll try to do a quick synopsis of some of the "major" games in the genre and then we can all just argue over which one is the best while giving tips to any newbies we may lure in.
Just as a note, a lot of dry info about the games was just stolen from Wikipedia, cause seriously, I'm not fucking explaining the concept of Simcity to you.
The Heavyweights
These are the series that you've probably heard of. And if hadn't these would be the among the first recommended to you should you be interested.
SIMCITY
The big daddy, one of the many iterations of Simcity likely popped your city building cherry. Really, if you're a fan of the genre and haven't played a Simcity, I dunno what to tell you. Wikipedia does tho:
The objective of SimCity, as the name of the game suggests, is to build and design a city, without specific goals to achieve (except in the scenarios, see below). The player can mark land as being zoned as commercial, industrial, or residential, add buildings, change the tax rate, build a power grid, build transportation systems and many other actions, in order to enhance the city.
Also, the player may face disasters including: flooding, tornadoes, fires (often from air disasters or even shipwrecks), earthquakes and attacks by monsters. In addition, monsters and tornadoes can trigger train crashes by running into passing trains. Later disasters in the game's sequels included lightning strikes, volcanoes, meteors and attack by extraterrestrial craft.
Perhaps the most approachable of the City Building Genre (based mostly on the fact that most of you people actually live in a city and know what that entails, as opposed to being a settler in buttfuck-knows-when)
Of course, as this is a product of Will Wright, there's a billion expansions, and in addition the original Macro focus of the earlier games (who gives a shit about individuals?) has been graduatually changed to a Micro focus, blurring the lines between Simcity and the Sims. That is not to say that Simcity is just Sims 2/3 with a bigger map - the focus still remains on building a city.
As for which Simcity is the best, that's debatable. Simcity, while quaint, is really too simplistic (and bloody ugly) to be taken seriously anymore. Simcity 2000 is, good, adding in some 3d terrain (even if it is a bit simplistic) and expanding your options. Simcity 3000 is generally (although Im sure someone will argue with me) regarded as being the most difficult of the series, as it tends to get bogged down in realism. Simcity 4000 is more streamlined, but unfortunately missed a lot of attention with its then high system requirements. Picking it up now tho isn't a bad idea.
Settlers
The Settlers (also known as Serf City, original German title Die Siedler) is a slow-paced Simulation computer game by German developer Blue Byte Software, first released in 1993 for Commodore Amiga and in 1994 for the PC. It was the first game of its type, blending together principles which had not been seen in a single game before,and defined the line of the later Settlers games. On the hardware available at the time, the game could control a maximum of 64,000 individuals, all behaving autonomously
That clear everything up for you? Settlers was a much slower sort of game (seriously, games took FUCKING AGES, and not in a good way) that also introduced a more robust economic portion, with something like 25+ resources to keep track of, and also has opponents - enemies on the same map that you could send attack.
Frankly, the only good aspect of this was once you got all setup and entered lategame stages, where the economy would pretty much run itself if properly organized.
In all honesty tho, you probably never played the original Settlers, and instead your first experience with this series was in the form of Settlers 2.
Settlers II can be played in either campaign mode or through individual scenarios defined by the user. The user can also engage in a split screen match with a human opponent on the same computer with a second mouse.[4] The player's main objectives are building a diverse economy and conquering every computer opponent. The player begins each map with a warehouse and a set amount of materials and tools. The economy is driven by serfs who transport goods through a network of roads and also populate a building once its completed, if the necessary tool to perform the building task is present in the warehouse. The economy is based on gathering raw materials which include food, rock, lumber, and ores. The player has control over what percent of a materials is transported to each building for processing. All raw materials are used to enable different economic functions such as food enables miners to mine, rock and lumber are used as material to construct buildings and other tasks while different ores are used to construct tools and war material.
Seriously, Settlers II rocked. I'm not gonna talk about the following sequels (I think we're at Settlers 6 now) cause they by and large sucked horrible ass.
Not entirely true. 3 and 4 were decent
Because of this I'm hesitant about including this series in the heavyweight category, but I figure it deserves to be there on name recognition of Settlers 2 alone.
Caesar / Impressions Games
Ah Caesar. Take Simcity, throw out all the modern crap, add in some light military action, and you've got yourself a pretty accurate description of Caesar. Caesar is basically Simcity in ancient Rome, but don't think its all bare chest women (or was that Greece?) and old men with little boys, Ceasar is fucking hard. All of them are. Instead of just having to worry about Schools, Hospitals, Fire Departments and the like, there's a billion fucking things that those needy little fucks need in Caesar. It took a lot of planning to ensure your early city would still be useful in the late game, and sometimes building those fucking aqueducts was enough to make you go Nero.
I've also clumped the other Impressions games in here, such as Pharoh, Master of Olympus, and a bunch of other ancient era games. Some stand out more than others (obviously Caesar standing out on top) but they were all decent games.
It's also worth mentioning that these guys made Lords of the Realm 2, which is a fucking awesome TBS game, along the lines of Total War.
The Shy Ones
You may not have heard of these. They're either small, old, or just didn't get enough attention when they were younger. They may also be so fucking obscure that you wonder where I found them.
Castles II - Siege and Conquest
Technically this shouldn't be here, as the only real thing you actual build are Castles. But Castles are awesome, and so was this game. If you've played it, you must be ridiculous good looking, smart, and an all-round fantastic person.
Seriously, I fucking loved this game.
Outpost
.jpg)
Pretty much Simcity in space. It has its faults, but it was good. The nice thing about it was that it used science not SCIENCE!, so there was no WTF crap in there. Wiki gives a fairly accurate description based on my memory of the game:
Gameplay starts with the player choosing what equipment they choose to bring to the colony and choosing a site for the future colony. Once this is done, a series of animations shows the ship leaving the Solar System and flying to its chosen target system. The player then launches any of equipment they brought with them, and then lands, starting the main portion of the game.
The game is played on an isometric map similar to SimCity 2000, but includes both above and below-ground levels. Structures like greenhouses, antenna and others that require a view of the sky are built on the surface, while accommodations and most other structures are built underground. Various machines like earthmovers and diggers are used to prepare areas for building, flatten surfaces for faster movement, and build structures.
The game makes extensive use of pre-rendered 3D graphics, both for in-game sprites as well as cutscenes.
Afterlife
Is fucking awesome. Made in 96, back when Lucasarts actually made good games, this one was a real beauty. Player took control of both Heaven and Hell, and the game progressed much like a traditional Simcity title. What makes it stand out tho is the graphics and humor. Yes, this is a funny Lucasarts game (do you remember those?) with all sorts of references. Although its replay ability was a bit limited (you're always on the same map) it still remains one of my favorites.
Startopia
No, of course I didn't forget about Startopia. Set in a fantasy sci-fi future, you play the part of a space station administrator operating in a galactic civilisation ravaged by a recent space war. The action takes place in a spectacular and unusual game environment - the interior of a huge, torus shaped spinning space station. Inside, you are trying to develop and maintain a utopian environment for nine alien species, each with their own skills, personalities and foibles: a Startopia. This game is very similar to Dungeon Keeper in that regard (which shouldn't be that surprising considering it was made by ex-Bullfrog employees).
This game is truely fantastic. It looks great (even now), its imersive, and its just a ton of fun.
In fact, once this is done I think I'll go reinstall it.
The Newbies
They're new and shiny, and probably occupying our current attention
Cities XL
I actually don't know anything about this one, as I didn't get into the Beta. Not that that matters anyways, as I'm pretty sure they got an NDA on the testers. It looks good, but won't be release in Europe until Oct 9th, and they haven't even stated a NA release date.
Anno 1404 (Dawn of Discover)
My latest favorite, I don't really have a lot to offer about this one as I've really just started playing it. It looks to play a lot like Settlers 2 in that resources seem to be the major focus. Combat looks pretty weak, but I'm not really concerned about that. Still, I'm enjoying it and will put more comments in once I get a better handle on the game.
Ok I'm done, we can all start arguing now and people can point out what timeless classics I missed.
Kris_xK on
0
Posts
It was a major disappointment for me.
Origin: Broncbuster
The CitiesXL beta was like opening a Christmas present to find that, instead of the awesome you were expecting, your parents had decapitated your dog and stuck his head in a box.
Anno 1404, on the other hand, is fantastic and everyone should play it. I got bored of 1701 after a while, but 1404 has more variety and stuff to do.
That game sucked me in like nothing before or since in the Sim genre. Zeus and Pharoah just couldn't compete.
Startopia also kicked some major ass.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
FreeCiv? :P
I can't think of any names, unfortunately, but I know there are a number of SimCity clones out there. Might try checking TIGsource.com or indiegames.com/blog
And I never did unlock that space port...
http://www.donhopkins.com/home/micropolis/
SimCity's source code was released for free as Micropolis (EA still holds the rights to the name)
Yeah you're right, but I'd never heard of it before and since it's my party....
I'm really enjoying it so far tho, even if I am just fucking around in Sandbox.
Try Anno 1404. I know I'm harping on about it, but I found it to be a decent replacement to Settlers.
Of course, its still early going so that might change, but so far so good.
Mostly I'm tired of making roads that only go in 8 directions. That's all. It's one of my pet peeves that you can't do a proper curved road, or have a road that goes off at say a 30-degree angle, in Sim City 4.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Screw the NDA, everything's based on 4 social classes:
Non-qualified workers
Qualified workers
Executives
Elites
Higher classes demand more city services. The thing is, building zones is based on classes as well, you have residential zones for each class, and you start out being able to only designate non-qualified-low-density zones and each density+class open up depending on city population.
That's why it doesn't work. In SC4, you are free to designate zones as you wish, and anyone can move into them. It's up to you to add land value to each zone and make it genuinely attractive to each type of class.
Also, bugs. My god the bugs.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The game doesn't have a huge amount of staying power. The DRM is incredibly obnoxious (install on three different computers, even one after the other since there's no revoke tool, and you have to call Ubi to get authorised for another set). The rewards for achievements are expensive and unfulfilling. The military side of things is wonky and tacked-on.
But it's fun while it lasts, oddly enough.
There's a very definite feel to the game, one that shows the developers put a lot of heart into it. Gameplay generally consists of an early-game island-grab (each island has certain resources on it), then development of trading routes between islands and players as each attempts to get all the resources required for their industry and citizens. As each class of citizens gets their required resources, their houses will level up. If they level up but lose a needed resource, they'll riot.
It works well, but drastically increases in difficulty as the number of other players goes up - with highlights perhaps the largest issue I have with the game: That difficulty often comes down to frantic clicking and split-second decisions, rather than reasoned and logical city building and efficient organisation.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
Also one that didn't have such a reactionary economic model. By increasing taxes on the poor I am able to make them rich and middle class. How the hell does that work? Did they decide that now that their taxes went up by eleven percent, living the easy life as a factory worker wasn't going to cut it and that they should take that offer to head the local corporation instead?
Also, this thread may have caued me to spend my day playing Caesar 3, or the virtually unknown CivCity: Rome.
Re: The difficulty, I actually found it pretty fun to be so challenged by a building game. It has more in common with Dwarf Fortress than SimCity in that regard, really: if you want to survive, you need to build not just well but FAST, because you're vying for a limited number of islands each with their specific fertilities. The challenge of your neighbors abates later on (the AI likes to go with war with each other, much to my delight), replaced by the difficulty of providing for your citizens without overshooting their needs and bankrupting yourself.
Of course, if that doesn't sound fun to you, no one says you have to play against AI opponents at all: the continuous game setup options are like 5 pages long and admirably comprehensive. There are enough financial challenges and quests to keep you occupied for quite a while. And the game is absolutely stunning graphically, unlike anything I've ever seen; it has a "postcard mode" (press F1) with a depth-of-field effect that makes for unequaled screenshots.
Without the DRM, I would unreservedly recommend the game at every opportunity. Just know that if you buy DoD and want to play it in a few years, you're likely to find your discs rendered useless by idiotic restrictions and a long-dead authentication server.
EDIT: Above comments refer to the PC version. The Wii/DS versions are stripped down but reportedly well executed, but I can comment on neither from personal experience.
EDIT2: Neat system of earned titles, unlockable content with bonus points, purchasable colors/symbols/pics, etc - see my profile in their online thingy for some examples, including some of the screenshots I mentioned above.
I remember the original Caesar on the Amiga... man that game rocked and probably still would rock today.
Also, couldn't Stronghold be considered a city-building game?
Tropico 3 supposedly coming soon! I hope it isn't complete shit, but my hopes aren't too high.
Yeah I'm definitely waiting to see on that one. It has all the ingredients of being a terrible sequel to a great franchise, but those wacky Germans could prove me wrong. I really hope they do.
I also was a huge fan of Sim Isle, I guess it's more of an island tourism/industry simulator than a city sim though, but it was great.
Also, I just recently got into StarTopia for the first time. Where has this game been hiding all my life? It's just wonderful. The camera is just the best thing in the world once you get the hang of things/open more than your initial section of the ship.
Same deal with Tropico, from the wiki article it sounds like the first game is the best from a city building view.
edit: Steam has a complete Tropico pack up so I guess that settles it.
I also lost my only ship while doing a mission, and Lord North-somethingorother has offered to sell me a new one, but it would mean waiting for my gold to go up for a long time, and not be able to build anything.
My little colony on a southern (desert) island has come to a stand-still due to this... I can't grow or mine anything there, but I guess if I hold out, get a ship and send supplies, and continue to advance my main city, I should be able to expand it eventually. I might have to set up another colony on a more temperate island in the mean time... maybe that will help increase my gold reserves.
Overall though, it is enjoyable and challenging. The 3 install thing is a bit of a turn-off, but I guess that after a certain period of time they'll just drop the DRM altogether. I hope so anyway.
Oh, and this thread brought wonderful memories of Afterlife flooding back. That game was amazing!!!
*Thanks Thanatos!
I own all of these Impressions games, and I have to say that RotMK is more advanced in its content(well, it's newer), but when it comes to game mechanics and such, Zeus and RotMK are pretty much the same, except one is heavily geared towards Greek culture, while the other towards Chinese. There are differences in how the society works, and all that, so the experience is similar, but RotMK isn't a clone.
It all comes down to which culture you prefer, or ideally get both. Personally, I prefer RotMK a little over Zeus, which I prefer a little over Pharaoh, which I prefer a little over Caesar 3.
Tropico 1 is a lot more open ended and complicated than 2 for the most part. In one you get to pick how you want your island to develop: Do you want a tourist paradise to take all the Yanqui tourist dollars? Or do you want a manufacturing hub? Maybe just grow lots and lots of crops, suck up to Russia and form a communist utopia? Do you want to rule with an iron fist and keep everyone but your military miserable and cancel all elections? You can do that too.
In two you don't have as much flexibility, but it's still a fun game. It actually has a campaign mode unlike the first, so the lack of open-endedness is made up for a lot with that. And nothing beats watching your pirates whip all of your captured slaves with towels to make them work faster.
Actually maybe it's just me, but that's a common thread in the genre as a whole.
EDIT: What's the deal with Tropico 3? What news have people heard that makes it sound terrible?
Just that it's made by some random Bulgarian studio and a new publisher, so it has no real connections to the first two. No doubt it could work out to be great, but there's reason to be skeptical.
Sorry, Tropico 3 is back to El Presidente. That said, everything I've heard about it on some other forums indicates its pretty much a visual update of the original with some common dislikes of the game being ironed out. The people in the beta say its pretty much Tropico. In fact, the biggest negative I've heard about the game is that the sound track doesn't measure up to the original. Which makes me really sad because
No one can resist that Tropican Beat
As stated previously, the demand caps and traffic simulation is crap and needs some serious work. They made it a little better with the expansion that added new roadway types, but it was a band-aid over a gaping wound. Give me a city building game that fixes this, plus a system where I draw lines free-form and the game builds a road to match that line, which also permits zoning of arbitrary shapes, and I'd be happier than a pig in mud.
With dual core processors becoming mainstream these days, it seems like we're past due for something like this, but it appears developers want to dump all their effort into graphics.