Hey its a loomdun, and he is drawing stuff, how neat [NSFW]

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  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    ijawtorew;aijf;awkfjawkjfwa;lkjrwa;lgkjearl;kjgealr;kjgaewhg

    Loomdun on
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  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2009
    you ok there loomdun

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    today has actually been pretty good, I'm going to celebrate now by eating some cereal, what a fine day this day is

    Loomdun on
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  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Godfather wrote: »
    Watts Atilier is a curriculum that emphasizes realism, meaning your method of working is optical (i.e. start by copying shadow shapes rather than constructing a figure).

    This isn't really how Watts operates. You're describing a purely optical method like sight-size, which many realist schools use exclusively, whereas we use a combination of Reilly abstraction and volume construction informed by observational measuring. Sure, we draw a lot on observation rather than invention, but often the lessons taught are coming straight out of Preston Blair and How to Draw the Marvel Way. This is a large part of the reason that I came here rather than another atelier, because that's more useful than a pure optical method when working professionally.
    your weaknesses as a result will be a lack of focus on structural anatomy, construction, form, big form movement, perspective, and drawing from imagination.

    I would say this is more an indication of what classes he's chosen to take and how long he's been here, (which has been like what, 10 weeks of class thus far?) rather than what the school does and does not offer. I don't want to get into a school pissing match here, but if you're going to tell people what is and isn't taught here, I'd suggest coming down here and finding out what is and isn't taught here, rather than just making an assumption.

    Not to say you don't have a point- if you want the fastest way to learn how to solidly construct an animation line drawing at an animation-industry acceptable frame of time, I would guess an animation school is going to hammer down on those skills more upfront than a school based on a painterly style of drawing which assumes hours, rather than minutes of time to work on any individual figure. But assuming the school therefore eschews a lot of essential skills entirely because of this difference, is simply not true.


    I know this wasn't really your point which was more about Loom being more aware of what he does and doesn't know at the moment, which is valid, but it sort of cheesed me off because it came across as both uninformed and disparaging.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    In all honesty bacon, did you expect me to really know every nook-and-cranny of Watt's teaching curriculum? I was giving more of a rundown of these type of schools in general, not exclusively Watts. That's like expecting everyone here to know how MTM works, even though what I posted is quite different than the summary that I typed above.

    Every one of these type of programs branch out and have their own spin on things, but on the whole it's the same general raw idea, no matter how far off the path it strays.

    Godfather on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    edit: no wait i'm curious what this general idea is again I think I missed it

    Loomdun on
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  • Angel_of_BaconAngel_of_Bacon Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Godfather wrote: »
    In all honesty bacon, did you expect me to really know every nook-and-cranny of Watt's teaching curriculum?

    No, but if you're going to say make stuff up about something you specifically pointed out by name (twice!), you shouldn't expect to not hear from people that know firsthand that you are wrong.

    If the shoe were on the other foot, and I was talking about MTM (or, MTM and schools superficially similar to MTM)- as teaching, "just cartoons and blind contour stuff that doesn't teach anything about accurate human figure drawing", you'd probably be pretty similarly narked off, because I'm guessing that's not an accurate picture of what goes on there. Which is why I'm not saying that, because I am fully aware that I have no more idea of what goes on there, than you do about what goes on here.

    I think there is significantly more variance between atelier schools than you realize or are giving credit for here, and it's immensely annoying to see the faults of some being applied to all without thought. Might as well say CalArts' character animation program isn't worth going to because the Art Institute programs are such a ripoff- that just doesn't make sense.


    That's not to say that Watts is perfect and students invariably come out with halos and shitting masterpieces out their butt, but it's not nearly as inadequate as you'd have people believe based on that post.

    Angel_of_Bacon on
  • Guy BellGuy Bell Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Loomdun wrote: »
    today has actually been pretty good, I'm going to celebrate now by eating some cereal, what a fine day this day is

    Loom, I've been enjoying your posts for a few months now but whenever I read them I hear the voice of Winnie the Pooh. But that's a good thing.

    Guy Bell on
  • ChillyChilly Registered User
    edited November 2009
    ...students invariably come out with halos and shitting masterpieces out their butt

    If you ever do find a school along these lines, can you please let me know, so that I can immediately apply for classes or a degree program from them? I would love that.

    Chilly on
  • ShizumaruShizumaru Registered User
    edited November 2009
    @ Godfather- watts is more of an illustration school than fine art or realism, hence things like the overemphasis of the reilly method, the overall look/style of the drawings,etc.

    Shizumaru on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    winnieee the poooh, so currently i'm changing my studies a bit more, as I improve more, smaller sections of errors are becoming more apparent, my weakness in heads and heads in particular sooo heres my 20 minute figure lay ins



    dont mind the fact i horribly butchered the head on the last one zzz

    Loomdun on
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  • Arden CaneloArden Canelo Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    What are you using to take pictures of the studies above? Digital camera? I needs a digital camera :(.

    Arden Canelo on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    a silly digital camera

    Loomdun on
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  • Guy BellGuy Bell Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    What are you using to take pictures of the studies above? Digital camera? I needs a digital camera :(.

    I have an expensive Canon Rebel XT that I bought about 3 years ago. At work a couple of months ago I won a little digital point-and-shoot worth about a $100. It takes better pictures than my Canon, has a higher resolution, and fits in my back pocket. I'm a little pissed.

    Guy Bell on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Oh noes, I missed the punching party

    that's okay, that wouldn't be something I'd join anyway...sorry guys!

    consolation prize: NightDragon makes tea and cake for everybody, gives hugs

    NightDragon on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    the past two pages don't exist but heres a portrait drawing instead

    004-16.jpg

    Loomdun on
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  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    tra la la

    017-2.jpg

    007-8.jpg

    009-6.jpg

    011-5.jpg

    013-5.jpg

    002-14.jpg

    Loomdun on
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  • Arden CaneloArden Canelo Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Checkin' out those fresh butt chins. I mean clefts. They're called clefts right? It may be me, but are some of your necks too long?

    Arden Canelo on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    tra la laaa

    Loomdun on
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  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    woohooo

    Loomdun on
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  • BuckwolfeBuckwolfe Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Overall those aren't too shabby, Loom. Nice job.

    If I have any negative feedback, it would be that your eyes need a lot of work. They are either disproportionate to each other, or you've almost completely omitted one of the eyes all together. But I think that if you actually went in and defined the eyes that you've neglected on some of those drawings, they would really look top notch.

    Other than that, there are only a few minor inaccuracies when it comes to proportions. Particularly with the last, and second to last images. The head/body relationships are a little off, and the arms and legs look either awkwardly chunky, or too thin in places. Almost like they're exaggerations, which would be inappropriate for life studies.

    All in all, these are really good, Loom. Kudos.

    Buckwolfe on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    I edited and added some line indication on the last one to make the head feel more equal size, I was playing around with losing edge, I suppose if you lose to much edge it makes the figure look thinner and therefore the head becomes bigger

    I suppose I need to be careful where I make the arm and the torso merge in shadow because the lack of information there can make it look skinny if done incorrectly, i'll remember that in the future that simple indication can be done, but only if I apply a solid darker tone on the lower half later or some area with line to help the viewers eyes

    as far as the second one goes with a most likely slightly to small head, thats probably true on account I had messed up horribly and had to redue it half way through

    edit: also i'm not sure if your commenting on the old man portrait with disproportionate eyes because if so thats obviously intentional i'm not sure if this is coming from a critical view point or a need to point something out thing

    and if your commenting on the female portraits I made them half gestural eyes and half actual eyes so.... I'm assuming your most likely referring to that because gestural eyes isn't exactly common knowledge here

    the thing i'm most concerned about is the arm length on the last one mainly because I forgot to plumb line check and naturally made it longer I will have to look out for it next time

    Loomdun on
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  • Guy BellGuy Bell Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Christmas hat!

    Guy Bell on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    I am so festive

    Loomdun on
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  • AgentflitAgentflit Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    what about the other avatar someone made for you loom

    Agentflit on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    I used lyriums until I made my ownnnn avatar and now I put random objects on my head to celebrate holidays

    Loomdun on
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  • AgentflitAgentflit Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Was that one the other drawing of a chinchilla with a hat? Anyway it's adorable as it is now and I need to find my santa avatar

    Keep up the drawins

    Agentflit on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    NOPE ikage randomly doodled that because she was trying to make sense of my chinchilla with a fruit basket on my head and thought it was a turkey wearing a hat

    Loomdun on
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  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    alrighttt so I edited my first post for any new people that may come and view the thread, basically, stop giving me advice please, I dont mind opinions like that feels to long, that feels to big, to small or to short, or I dont like how that looks orr something like that. Because that stuff is helpful to me, not, adviceeeeee.

    But please for my sanity stop trying to give me advice, I've asked twice now for no advice and only opinions. Half the time its trying to say what I should be doing differently when they dont even know what i'm doing or they have mixed up info. so if people fail to find the giant words on the front page and fail to see this post somehow, i'll just simply report any said advice to hopefully be simply deleted by mods. Okay? Okayyyyyy.

    yes I've had my fair share of saying stupid things, i'm done with giving advice and hope the receiving end stops to. thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuu

    the purpose of this thread is to be posting my progress currently I suppose I should update that on the first post to

    Loomdun on
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  • beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    what do you mean you don't want advice?
    you mean you don't want crits on your work?

    beavotron on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    Critique and advice kind of go together a bit, if you say the head feels to small or the arms are to long, or that chest is to big, that is both a opinion and a critique, but if you say, the eye is to big you aren't paying enough attention you should detail the eyes more, that is a crtique and advice, so I suppose to make it less complicated yes no critiques in general and just opinions of how people feel about a drawing

    Loomdun on
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  • BuckwolfeBuckwolfe Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I know I've given you shit before Loom, but I actually like you. I also think you've made a lot of progress in your art, but I have to ask...


    What the fuck are you talking about? You know as well as any of us that the whole purpose of the forum IS TO GIVE ADVICE, AND CRITS. Its also expected to get them in return. Ideally.

    So I ask again, what the fuck are you talking about, saying opinions are fine, but you don't want advice?

    Buckwolfe on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    Because I dont need advice but opinions are helpful? I'm posting my work to show progress, and I can easily maintain this progress on my own without posting it, a fresh eye on a drawing to say something feels off is fine, and sometimes it can be easy to confuse gestural drawings between real drawings I hear it a lot in not just my own thread.

    unlike just posting in the doodle thread (especially because a lot is nsfw) this thread also shows my little learning steps because I post everything from short drawings to long drawings and I can watch my own progress easily.

    Loomdun on
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  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I think I remember Loom saying that he felt that when people give advice ("maybe you should try putting more detail in the eyes") rather than straight-up, "you're drawing arms too long", he feels they're interfering with the role that the teachers at Watts have.

    ...but Loom, you can't ask people to not do that. That's part of a solid critique. And despite what you may think, you have had quite a few good pieces of advice here, that still fit in with what you're trying to accomplish with Watts.

    Nobody here is your teacher or instructor, but we're giving you advice to help you further develop your skills - which is why you're posting here, yes?...if somebody says "You should be doing these in colored pencil on computer paper instead" or "you should give everything hard edges"....or something that is the complete opposite of what you're trying to accomplish, then yes, I'd say it'd be fine to mention that you have different goals with this artwork, and explain what the goals are.

    ...but in general I'd say that that's not the type of advice you're being given. Maybe you're taking some of the critiques too harshly, in that you're thinking "add some detail" means "go nuts with the detail, and detail it more than anything else in the piece". We may just be mentioning things that need subtle adjustments, not something over-the-top.

    I mean, again, it's fine to nicely, calmly mention that some of the critiques don't match with what you're trying to accomplish...but it seems you've been doing that a little too much.

    If somebody says something here that conflicts with what one of your instructors is saying, mention what your instructor said...that may help us to explain in clearer terms what you need improvement on - while still sticking with what your instructors are telling you. Obviously you're getting most of your instruction from them - but you can't completely cut everybody else from the process if you are posting your work here. Despite what you may believe, non-instructor advice can still help you, and greatly so.

    NightDragon on
  • bombardierbombardier Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    Sorry, if you want to post stuff on the forums then it is subject to the same thing every other thread is. I can just lock the thread for you if that's what you want.

    bombardier on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    I think I remember Loom saying that he felt that when people give advice ("maybe you should try putting more detail in the eyes") rather than straight-up, "you're drawing arms too long", he feels they're interfering with the role that the teachers at Watts have.

    ...but Loom, you can't ask people to not do that. That's part of a solid critique. And despite what you may think, you have had quite a few good pieces of advice here, that still fit in with what you're trying to accomplish with Watts.

    Nobody here is your teacher or instructor, but we're giving you advice to help you further develop your skills - which is why you're posting here, yes?...if somebody says "You should be doing these in colored pencil on computer paper instead" or "you should give everything hard edges"....or something that is the complete opposite of what you're trying to accomplish, then yes, I'd say it'd be fine to mention that you have different goals with this artwork, and explain what the goals are.

    ...but in general I'd say that that's not the type of advice you're being given. Maybe you're taking some of the critiques too harshly, in that you're thinking "add some detail" means "go nuts with the detail, and detail it more than anything else in the piece". We may just be mentioning things that need subtle adjustments, not something over-the-top.

    I mean, again, it's fine to nicely, calmly mention that some of the critiques don't match with what you're trying to accomplish...but it seems you've been doing that a little too much.

    If somebody says something here that conflicts with what one of your instructors is saying, mention what your instructor said...that may help us to explain in clearer terms what you need improvement on - while still sticking with what your instructors are telling you. Obviously you're getting most of your instruction from them - but you can't completely cut everybody else from the process if you are posting your work here. Despite what you may believe, non-instructor advice can still help you, and greatly so.

    I never said all advice is bad from none instructor, and I never said all things said here is bad, but more so most of the good comments came from what people felt was off rather then saying what to do to correct it. Which is why i'm simply asking people to stop saying what they feel i should be doing and just saying what they feel looks wrong.

    I mean a example is mustang, he felt that I was falling back in my old ways when going to photoshop, he didn't say do something, he explained what he felt and pointed out why, I asked and he explained, I then looked over and corrected it. Thats both a opinion and its helpful

    now take godfather for example who keeps saying randommm things like organize your sketchbooks or feeeel the flowwwww

    and bombardier if you don't respect this simple request of asking people to stop saying what they feel should be done and simply just pointing out errors then yes lock it?

    Loomdun on
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  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Loomdun wrote: »
    and bombardier if you don't respect this simple request of asking people to stop saying what they feel should be done and simply just pointing out errors then yes lock it?

    Well, I think you need to give a better idea of what constitutes bad advice.

    Communication isn't exactly your strong point.

    Also, godfather is a pretentious shithead and his mother dropped him on his head as a baby, so ignore him.

    I don't want to see your thread get locked because I like your art.

    Metalbourne on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User
    edited November 2009
    Loomdun wrote: »
    and bombardier if you don't respect this simple request of asking people to stop saying what they feel should be done and simply just pointing out errors then yes lock it?

    Well, I think you need to give a better idea of what constitutes bad advice.

    Communication isn't exactly your strong point.

    Also, godfather is a pretentious shithead and his mother dropped him on his head as a baby, so ignore him.

    I don't want to see your thread get locked because I like your art.

    well I feel advice in general is not needed, i'm learning currently in a very focused area to see and draw in general, and then I intend to interpret this into whatever field I finally decide to focus on.

    usually when someone sais oh hey them necks feel long, or hey them arms feel longs, they are absolutely right. But I cant stand it then when people start saying and clearly your wrong because you aren't studying enough anatomy to correct this.

    I mean, I understand that some people here may have really good advice, like for instance night dragon might possibly say, a good way to correct eyes is a common thing people mis-interpret which is usually the tear duct is parallel to the direction of the nose from the nostril but some bad sources may say that it is a line directly up from the nostril, you might possibly be following the one directly up. But if I have to truly ask in general for everyone else to stop then i'll also have to include this.

    (I learned that yesterday hur)

    i'm not asking people to stop talking in general i'm just saying keep what you feel should be practiced, studied, or a tool of measurement to yourself and simply say what area you feel is wrong.

    Loomdun on
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  • MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Loomdun wrote: »
    Loomdun wrote: »
    and bombardier if you don't respect this simple request of asking people to stop saying what they feel should be done and simply just pointing out errors then yes lock it?

    Well, I think you need to give a better idea of what constitutes bad advice.

    Communication isn't exactly your strong point.

    Also, godfather is a pretentious shithead and his mother dropped him on his head as a baby, so ignore him.

    I don't want to see your thread get locked because I like your art.

    well I feel advice in general is not needed, i'm learning currently in a very focused area to see and draw in general, and then I intend to interpret this into whatever field I finally decide to focus on.

    usually when someone sais oh hey them necks feel long, or hey them arms feel longs, they are absolutely right. But I cant stand it then when people start saying and clearly your wrong because you aren't studying enough anatomy to correct this.

    I mean, I understand that some people here may have really good advice, like for instance night dragon might possibly say, a good way to correct eyes is a common thing people mis-interpret which is usually the tear duct is parallel to the direction of the nose from the nostril but some bad sources may say that it is a line directly up from the nostril, you might possibly be following the one directly up. But if I have to truly ask in general for everyone else to stop then i'll also have to include this.

    (I learned that yesterday hur)

    i'm not asking people to stop talking in general i'm just saying keep what you feel should be practiced, studied, or a tool of measurement to yourself and simply say what area you feel is wrong.

    So, in other words, you want critique on actual structural deficiencies and not on technique.

    I think that's fair enough.

    Metalbourne on
  • IrukaIruka Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited November 2009
    So basically you're asking for a critical, almost nitpicky comments on particular drawings, rather than critiques that involve your process?

    I'll be honest, I dont see anything wrong with that.

    Iruka on
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