I don't get this "WE ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT A GAME BEFORE RELEASE" mentality. Why would they show all kinds of terrain? All skills? Ok, knowing about MP modes is indeed very important and a purchase-decision factor, but why spoil everything?
We're not entitled to anything, but if Gearbox wants me to buy their game in one of the most crowded holiday rushes ever, I want to know more about the skills to judge whether the game is going to have enough replay value. After all, they have already said there will not be a demo before release. If the skill trees suck and all classes play pretty much the same, the millions of procedurally generated guns won't matter because few people will stick around after the novelty is gone.
Yeah, I don't want to know everything but certain things I don't figure are spoilers or anything, but tools to get me more excited. The #1 being, the Talent Trees. This game comes out in ~1.5 months. I'd like to start planning builds and talking more about the game itself with friends excitedly.
I don't get this "WE ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT A GAME BEFORE RELEASE" mentality. Why would they show all kinds of terrain? All skills? Ok, knowing about MP modes is indeed very important and a purchase-decision factor, but why spoil everything?
We're not entitled to anything, but if Gearbox wants me to buy their game in one of the most crowded holiday rushes ever, I want to know more about the skills to judge whether the game is going to have enough replay value. After all, they have already said there will not be a demo before release. If the skill trees suck and all classes play pretty much the same, the millions of procedurally generated guns won't matter because few people will stick around after the novelty is gone.
Yeah, I don't want to know everything but certain things I don't figure are spoilers or anything, but tools to get me more excited. The #1 being, the Talent Trees. This game comes out in ~1.5 months. I'd like to start planning builds and talking more about the game itself with friends excitedly.
I don't get this "WE ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT A GAME BEFORE RELEASE" mentality. Why would they show all kinds of terrain? All skills? Ok, knowing about MP modes is indeed very important and a purchase-decision factor, but why spoil everything?
We're not entitled to anything, but if Gearbox wants me to buy their game in one of the most crowded holiday rushes ever, I want to know more about the skills to judge whether the game is going to have enough replay value. After all, they have already said there will not be a demo before release. If the skill trees suck and all classes play pretty much the same, the millions of procedurally generated guns won't matter because few people will stick around after the novelty is gone.
Yeah, I don't want to know everything but certain things I don't figure are spoilers or anything, but tools to get me more excited. The #1 being, the Talent Trees. This game comes out in ~1.5 months. I'd like to start planning builds and talking more about the game itself with friends excitedly.
That said, I did enjoy the calptrops video.
Planning builds, really?
I'd personally really like to see the talent trees to figure out how to make my soldier. What's wrong with that?
I don't get this "WE ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT A GAME BEFORE RELEASE" mentality. Why would they show all kinds of terrain? All skills? Ok, knowing about MP modes is indeed very important and a purchase-decision factor, but why spoil everything?
We're not entitled to anything, but if Gearbox wants me to buy their game in one of the most crowded holiday rushes ever, I want to know more about the skills to judge whether the game is going to have enough replay value. After all, they have already said there will not be a demo before release. If the skill trees suck and all classes play pretty much the same, the millions of procedurally generated guns won't matter because few people will stick around after the novelty is gone.
Yeah, I don't want to know everything but certain things I don't figure are spoilers or anything, but tools to get me more excited. The #1 being, the Talent Trees. This game comes out in ~1.5 months. I'd like to start planning builds and talking more about the game itself with friends excitedly.
That said, I did enjoy the calptrops video.
Planning builds, really?
I'd personally really like to see the talent trees to figure out how to make my soldier. What's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with it, I guess I just don't plan how to have fun in advance.
Planning builds... wow, some people take their fun really seriously. LOL
Until you've played it a bit I doubt any pre-planning will be all that useful. Just because a skill/ability says something cool doesn't mean it will be all that great once you've tried it. I usually have to try several different things before I land on something that clicks with me. I love playing a hunter/sniper style, and will usually favor picking up weapons that support that style, but so many games severely limit it by scarcity of ammo, long reloads, or by having enemies rush you so that a scope is worthless. I hope this game actually gives you the chance to be the one shot one kill kind of guy. I'm hopeful because the idea of working in a team of 4 means someone else can be up front while I pop off heads from up range.
El Guaco on
0
CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
Planning builds... wow, some people take their fun really seriously. LOL
Until you've played it a bit I doubt any pre-planning will be all that useful. Just because a skill/ability says something cool doesn't mean it will be all that great once you've tried it. I usually have to try several different things before I land on something that clicks with me. I love playing a hunter/sniper style, and will usually favor picking up weapons that support that style, but so many games severely limit it by scarcity of ammo, long reloads, or by having enemies rush you so that a scope is worthless. I hope this game actually gives you the chance to be the one shot one kill kind of guy. I'm hopeful because the idea of working in a team of 4 means someone else can be up front while I pop off heads from up range.
In that case you'll probably want to play with a Tank Berserker with the taunt ability and a Support Soldier with the ammo turret ability to keep you safe and filled with ammo. But now we're getting into build planning, so I guess that's too srs bsns ;-)
I don't get this "WE ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW ALL THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT A GAME BEFORE RELEASE" mentality. Why would they show all kinds of terrain? All skills? Ok, knowing about MP modes is indeed very important and a purchase-decision factor, but why spoil everything?
We're not entitled to anything, but if Gearbox wants me to buy their game in one of the most crowded holiday rushes ever, I want to know more about the skills to judge whether the game is going to have enough replay value. After all, they have already said there will not be a demo before release. If the skill trees suck and all classes play pretty much the same, the millions of procedurally generated guns won't matter because few people will stick around after the novelty is gone.
Yeah, I don't want to know everything but certain things I don't figure are spoilers or anything, but tools to get me more excited. The #1 being, the Talent Trees. This game comes out in ~1.5 months. I'd like to start planning builds and talking more about the game itself with friends excitedly.
That said, I did enjoy the calptrops video.
Planning builds, really?
I'd personally really like to see the talent trees to figure out how to make my soldier. What's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with it, I guess I just don't plan how to have fun in advance.
It gets me pumped for the game. I've already decided I'm going to have two main characters. Going to go Brick for when I play with my friends and when I play SP I am going to go Mordecai with the pet and have him be my buddy and tear shit up.
I'd like to just think about builds and how they'll play and such. Just fun to do.
Planning builds... wow, some people take their fun really seriously. LOL
God forbid someone has fun planning builds? LOL
Hey, whatever floats your boat. I just think it's a little funny to want to start planning a detailed build when you don't even know how the skills will perform in game. You could go through all the work only to find that your carefully planned build is terrible in-game.
Planning builds... wow, some people take their fun really seriously. LOL
God forbid someone has fun planning builds? LOL
Hey, whatever floats your boat. I just think it's a little funny to want to start planning a detailed build when you don't even know how the skills will perform in game. You could go through all the work only to find that your carefully planned build is terrible in-game.
Indeed, but then I can plan a new build! Twice the fun. See?
Planning builds... wow, some people take their fun really seriously. LOL
God forbid someone has fun planning builds? LOL
Hey, whatever floats your boat. I just think it's a little funny to want to start planning a detailed build when you don't even know how the skills will perform in game. You could go through all the work only to find that your carefully planned build is terrible in-game.
Or your carefully planned build doesn't make a difference because the skill trees don't add all that much to the game. I want to like this game, but what little we've learned about the skill system makes me hesitant.
Like in that PAX video. He levels up and the talent he highlights gives a chance to get extra money when Brick melees. Not what I'd call gameplay changing. And that skill was down in the tree. If that's a mid-level talent, how crappy are the low-level ones?
I just wish they'd tell us more so I can make up my mind whether to get this or Alpha Protocol before Dragon Age monopolizes my gaming time.
I think there is a divide on what this game is being preceived as. To me it sounds like those who are expecting a deep RPG are being dissapointed while those of us who just think it sounds like fun are excited. Similiar thing was going on before Fallout 3's release.
I played the demo at PAX and the few minutes I had with it on both PC and 360 were a blast. Perhaps as someone who has not played many FPS it still seems very fun to me. The graphics are great and the gun play felt good and solid to me as well (again, someone who doesn't play very many FPS). No matter what type of gun, shotgun or machine gun, it's very satisfying to watch the numbers bounce off and see your target explode. The single skills that each player had in the demo, while simple, felt very satisfying.
The collection whore in me is also excited by the procederally generated guns and enemies.
InitialDK on
"I'd happily trade your life for knowledge of my powers."
-Louis C.K.
Well I'm pretty sure they have guns that can fire acid bullets, so acid rockets wouldn't surprise me.
Seriously, the whole procedurally created guns thing just gives me such a soul boner.
Literally every time you open a crate there is a chance of finding something completely new and awesome.
Well I'm pretty sure they have guns that can fire acid bullets, so acid rockets wouldn't surprise me.
Seriously, the whole procedurally created guns thing just gives me such a soul boner.
Literally every time you open a crate there is a chance of finding something completely new and awesome.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I was super excited when I realized the grenades my character had not only did damage to enemies but healed me like a life drain. The turret is also very satisfying, it's so powerful and had sush a visceral sound and my friend had the character with the bloodwing and that thing also kicked ass.
InitialDK on
"I'd happily trade your life for knowledge of my powers."
-Louis C.K.
Or your carefully planned build doesn't make a difference because the skill trees don't add all that much to the game. I want to like this game, but what little we've learned about the skill system makes me hesitant.
Like in that PAX video. He levels up and the talent he highlights gives a chance to get extra money when Brick melees. Not what I'd call gameplay changing. And that skill was down in the tree. If that's a mid-level talent, how crappy are the low-level ones?
Well, we just don't have enough information. The money skill sounds weak, but this is because money is worthless in most games. For all we know there is a shop that sells high end grenades, and the extra money you get from this skill gets you better grenades, and more of them. This would result in damage increase for you and your party (and healing too, lol).
Or your carefully planned build doesn't make a difference because the skill trees don't add all that much to the game. I want to like this game, but what little we've learned about the skill system makes me hesitant.
Like in that PAX video. He levels up and the talent he highlights gives a chance to get extra money when Brick melees. Not what I'd call gameplay changing. And that skill was down in the tree. If that's a mid-level talent, how crappy are the low-level ones?
Well, we just don't have enough information.
This is exactly what we're complaining about though. When you define your game as a mashup of two different genres and then completely fail to give any insight about how well half of the game's basic genre system will actually function people's bullshit detectors start going off. This is true even if there's nothing to hide, because if you DO hide the info people will infer a reason for it.
I'm in the same camp: I won't want to play this game unless both portions (RPG skill planning and loot AND shooting mechanics) are solid, and since I can't find out from a demo it's basically either show me in previews to cement my interest or I'll Goozex it in 9 months and you'll see $0 from me. The response has pretty much been, "Oh, you want more info on the skill trees? Well here's a GUN THAT SHOOTS BEES THAT PISS ACID!!!!!!!".
That pic reminds me of the AA-12 automatic shotgun. I was going to go sniper in this game, but if I find an automatic shotgun that shoots mini grenades, I'm going soldier. And the whole time I'll be yelling, "This is my BOOM stick!"
I just watched a video of those grenades being fired out of an auto-shotty (I think it was the AA-12 mentioned above, it was the first link after googling "frag-12") and holy shit. I want one right now.
Or your carefully planned build doesn't make a difference because the skill trees don't add all that much to the game. I want to like this game, but what little we've learned about the skill system makes me hesitant.
Like in that PAX video. He levels up and the talent he highlights gives a chance to get extra money when Brick melees. Not what I'd call gameplay changing. And that skill was down in the tree. If that's a mid-level talent, how crappy are the low-level ones?
Well, we just don't have enough information.
This is exactly what we're complaining about though. When you define your game as a mashup of two different genres and then completely fail to give any insight about how well half of the game's basic genre system will actually function people's bullshit detectors start going off. This is true even if there's nothing to hide, because if you DO hide the info people will infer a reason for it.
I'm in the same camp: I won't want to play this game unless both portions (RPG skill planning and loot AND shooting mechanics) are solid, and since I can't find out from a demo it's basically either show me in previews to cement my interest or I'll Goozex it in 9 months and you'll see $0 from me. The response has pretty much been, "Oh, you want more info on the skill trees? Well here's a GUN THAT SHOOTS BEES THAT PISS ACID!!!!!!!".
They're just trying to tell you in the nicest way possible that your priorities could stand for some revision.
When presented with a gun that fires acid pissing bees into the face of your hated foe, you should ask, "But do they also set them on fire?" or "Sir, I am allergic to bees. In the interest of safety, is there another weapon you might provide me with?"
There is still over a month till release, they have plenty of time to release info about the skill trees. Even after release, there will be guides and reviews that will inform you just how solid the RPG aspects are.
There is a thread in the gearbox forums that has all the info we have on skill trees so far. It's only 6 skills from one of the classes, but it should give you a good idea how much skills will effect how you play.
Spoilered is a picture of Bricks skill tree
Acid shotgun rocket launcher was the best you can think of? I think they're going to one-up you. Read spoilers for PROOFFFF:
In the section I played, I got a quest reward called TK's Wave. It was a shotgun, but instead of shooting shotgun shells, it shot like... energy balls? that spread out and moved up and down in a wave. It was awesome, and not very useful.
Acid shotgun rocket launcher was the best you can think of? I think they're going to one-up you. Read spoilers for PROOFFFF:
In the section I played, I got a quest reward called TK's Wave. It was a shotgun, but instead of shooting shotgun shells, it shot like... energy balls? that spread out and moved up and down in a wave. It was awesome, and not very useful.
sounds like my kind of gun!
seriously, I don't really want to spend money, but I'll be surprised if I don't end up with this game.
Acid shotgun rocket launcher was the best you can think of? I think they're going to one-up you. Read spoilers for PROOFFFF:
In the section I played, I got a quest reward called TK's Wave. It was a shotgun, but instead of shooting shotgun shells, it shot like... energy balls? that spread out and moved up and down in a wave. It was awesome, and not very useful.
See, we need to hear more about awesome stuff like this. Sure, millions of guns are great, but unless they actually affect the style of play, its just millions of very samey weapons. I can't wait to hear about what the Alien weapons can do 8-)
Toxic, just start selling plasma now, you should recuperate with enough time to enjoy the game by next month ;-)
The devs should toss in a very rare gun drop that sounds absolutely amazing in its description, but when you go to use it, a flag comes out that says "bang!"
Maybe offset its uselessness by having it sell for alot of money.
That'd be funny to see happen to someone a few times
Skull2185 on
Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
Skill trees are broken into 3 trees each specializing in some different form of combat utilities.
So potentially 4 classes with 3 sub classes.
Even though the seeming lack of active skills made me a little sad, in terms of Diablo, I only ever picked one skill I liked to use a lot and the rest fell to the wayside, so between shooting/melee attacks and having an active skill, I don't think its that much of a worry.
Most of my interest is in the loot, because it is going to take a long time to collect over 3 million guns.
and on the side of A.I partners, once again like diablo, you are alone but as people join the difficulty scales to how many there are on what difficulty, that comment wouldn't be necessary having 4 people all the time.
Every different gun type is like an active skill!
And of course, having different weapons not in terms of stats and "enchantments" but also shotguns, pistols, carbines, sniper rifles, assault rifles, rocket launchers, grenade launchers maybe?
and grenade mods, your actives should be more then plentiful.
New class DLC lets have it YES
Meta T. Dust on
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
So glad people are whining about skill trees in an FPS. Provided the "millions" of guns are indeed fairly unique and you don't end up with stuff where there are fifty thousand pistols which are virtually identical save for slight graphical variations, the skill trees only seem important in the sense of what kind of weapons you should worry about picking up. Neither is this WoW where people are stacking skills on top of skills so they walk into a fight and turn on a half-dozen abilities that all pile on top of each other
Seriously, people wanting to "plan" their builds already? This isn't PnP Shadowrun, it's an FPS with some RPG elements. Shoot people in the face. Punch people in the face. Blow up people in the face. Collect money and gear. Rule Bartertown. The end.
Here's an idea. Let's take a game with heal cannons, attack birds that melt enemies, huge-ass revolver shotguns, and humor such as "Mad Mel" and then bitch about the lack of info about the skill trees like they matter. Not bitch about weak skill trees or useless skills, just bitch about the lack of info on skill trees.
Personally, I'm far more interested in knowing what kind of variation we can expect from the procedurally generated weapons. All the videos I've seen from PAX show the player using the same three weapons. Why have hundreds of thousands of guns if you're just going to use the same three weapons while showing off your game? Why not show stuff like a useless sniper rifle which fires pistol bullets or a belt-fed pistol which chews through ammo like a minigun and has an ammo box hanging off the side? The lack of displayed variation in the weapons so far worries me more than anything else.
Even if you scale it back from 12 million or whatever possible combinations. Bear in mind; most FPS only have around 10 weapons EACH. Discounting minor clones, you're still going to end up with more awesome hardware than most FPS' wetdreams.
Posts
Oh it's such a nice day, I think I'll go out the window! Whoa!
Yeah, I don't want to know everything but certain things I don't figure are spoilers or anything, but tools to get me more excited. The #1 being, the Talent Trees. This game comes out in ~1.5 months. I'd like to start planning builds and talking more about the game itself with friends excitedly.
That said, I did enjoy the calptrops video.
Planning builds, really?
I'd personally really like to see the talent trees to figure out how to make my soldier. What's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with it, I guess I just don't plan how to have fun in advance.
Until you've played it a bit I doubt any pre-planning will be all that useful. Just because a skill/ability says something cool doesn't mean it will be all that great once you've tried it. I usually have to try several different things before I land on something that clicks with me. I love playing a hunter/sniper style, and will usually favor picking up weapons that support that style, but so many games severely limit it by scarcity of ammo, long reloads, or by having enemies rush you so that a scope is worthless. I hope this game actually gives you the chance to be the one shot one kill kind of guy. I'm hopeful because the idea of working in a team of 4 means someone else can be up front while I pop off heads from up range.
In that case you'll probably want to play with a Tank Berserker with the taunt ability and a Support Soldier with the ammo turret ability to keep you safe and filled with ammo. But now we're getting into build planning, so I guess that's too srs bsns ;-)
It gets me pumped for the game. I've already decided I'm going to have two main characters. Going to go Brick for when I play with my friends and when I play SP I am going to go Mordecai with the pet and have him be my buddy and tear shit up.
I'd like to just think about builds and how they'll play and such. Just fun to do.
Hey, whatever floats your boat. I just think it's a little funny to want to start planning a detailed build when you don't even know how the skills will perform in game. You could go through all the work only to find that your carefully planned build is terrible in-game.
Indeed, but then I can plan a new build! Twice the fun. See?
Or your carefully planned build doesn't make a difference because the skill trees don't add all that much to the game. I want to like this game, but what little we've learned about the skill system makes me hesitant.
Like in that PAX video. He levels up and the talent he highlights gives a chance to get extra money when Brick melees. Not what I'd call gameplay changing. And that skill was down in the tree. If that's a mid-level talent, how crappy are the low-level ones?
I just wish they'd tell us more so I can make up my mind whether to get this or Alpha Protocol before Dragon Age monopolizes my gaming time.
I think there is a divide on what this game is being preceived as. To me it sounds like those who are expecting a deep RPG are being dissapointed while those of us who just think it sounds like fun are excited. Similiar thing was going on before Fallout 3's release.
I played the demo at PAX and the few minutes I had with it on both PC and 360 were a blast. Perhaps as someone who has not played many FPS it still seems very fun to me. The graphics are great and the gun play felt good and solid to me as well (again, someone who doesn't play very many FPS). No matter what type of gun, shotgun or machine gun, it's very satisfying to watch the numbers bounce off and see your target explode. The single skills that each player had in the demo, while simple, felt very satisfying.
The collection whore in me is also excited by the procederally generated guns and enemies.
-Louis C.K.
Don't be stupid. They're grenade launchers that fire acid grenades. The distinction is key.
Can't we have both?
Seriously, the whole procedurally created guns thing just gives me such a soul boner.
Literally every time you open a crate there is a chance of finding something completely new and awesome.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I was super excited when I realized the grenades my character had not only did damage to enemies but healed me like a life drain. The turret is also very satisfying, it's so powerful and had sush a visceral sound and my friend had the character with the bloodwing and that thing also kicked ass.
-Louis C.K.
Well, we just don't have enough information. The money skill sounds weak, but this is because money is worthless in most games. For all we know there is a shop that sells high end grenades, and the extra money you get from this skill gets you better grenades, and more of them. This would result in damage increase for you and your party (and healing too, lol).
Thank you for this gift of words.
Haha, to be fair I'm pretty sure I got it from "How I Met Your Mother".
Having both would probably break the universe or something.
It would be like Darth Vader punching Jean Luc Picard in the face. All whatthefuck
Shotguns that fire grenades? Ludicrous!
....
Frag-12 Shotgun-Propelled Grenade Rounds
Someone get Picard some ice for his eye
This is exactly what we're complaining about though. When you define your game as a mashup of two different genres and then completely fail to give any insight about how well half of the game's basic genre system will actually function people's bullshit detectors start going off. This is true even if there's nothing to hide, because if you DO hide the info people will infer a reason for it.
I'm in the same camp: I won't want to play this game unless both portions (RPG skill planning and loot AND shooting mechanics) are solid, and since I can't find out from a demo it's basically either show me in previews to cement my interest or I'll Goozex it in 9 months and you'll see $0 from me. The response has pretty much been, "Oh, you want more info on the skill trees? Well here's a GUN THAT SHOOTS BEES THAT PISS ACID!!!!!!!".
They're just trying to tell you in the nicest way possible that your priorities could stand for some revision.
When presented with a gun that fires acid pissing bees into the face of your hated foe, you should ask, "But do they also set them on fire?" or "Sir, I am allergic to bees. In the interest of safety, is there another weapon you might provide me with?"
There is a thread in the gearbox forums that has all the info we have on skill trees so far. It's only 6 skills from one of the classes, but it should give you a good idea how much skills will effect how you play.
Spoilered is a picture of Bricks skill tree
sounds like my kind of gun!
seriously, I don't really want to spend money, but I'll be surprised if I don't end up with this game.
See, we need to hear more about awesome stuff like this. Sure, millions of guns are great, but unless they actually affect the style of play, its just millions of very samey weapons. I can't wait to hear about what the Alien weapons can do 8-)
Toxic, just start selling plasma now, you should recuperate with enough time to enjoy the game by next month ;-)
I'll just be a man ho for a fortnight
Maybe offset its uselessness by having it sell for alot of money.
That'd be funny to see happen to someone a few times
And of course, having different weapons not in terms of stats and "enchantments" but also shotguns, pistols, carbines, sniper rifles, assault rifles, rocket launchers, grenade launchers maybe?
and grenade mods, your actives should be more then plentiful.
New class DLC lets have it YES
Seriously, people wanting to "plan" their builds already? This isn't PnP Shadowrun, it's an FPS with some RPG elements. Shoot people in the face. Punch people in the face. Blow up people in the face. Collect money and gear. Rule Bartertown. The end.
Here's an idea. Let's take a game with heal cannons, attack birds that melt enemies, huge-ass revolver shotguns, and humor such as "Mad Mel" and then bitch about the lack of info about the skill trees like they matter. Not bitch about weak skill trees or useless skills, just bitch about the lack of info on skill trees.
Personally, I'm far more interested in knowing what kind of variation we can expect from the procedurally generated weapons. All the videos I've seen from PAX show the player using the same three weapons. Why have hundreds of thousands of guns if you're just going to use the same three weapons while showing off your game? Why not show stuff like a useless sniper rifle which fires pistol bullets or a belt-fed pistol which chews through ammo like a minigun and has an ammo box hanging off the side? The lack of displayed variation in the weapons so far worries me more than anything else.
http://borderlandsguide.com/forum/three-ways-borderlands-differentiates-1-million-guns
Even if you scale it back from 12 million or whatever possible combinations. Bear in mind; most FPS only have around 10 weapons EACH. Discounting minor clones, you're still going to end up with more awesome hardware than most FPS' wetdreams.