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Hands tied, left in the dark (UPDATES P3, 5, 6): solved
ObiFett
Use the ForceAs You WishRegistered User regular
Use the ForceAs You WishRegistered User regular
Figuratively speaking ;-).
This is long (don't think a Tl:dr would give enough information):
The Setup:
I have/had (don't know which it is now) this really good friend who me and my wife would always hang out with. He was married as well, so we would do couple things pretty consistently. He and I hung out more than the wives hung out, however. His marriage had random problems that he would talk about with me and I would generally give him advice or just give him an ear to vent to. The guy stayed at our apartment for a couple weeks while trying to find an apartment for his family. While his wife was on vacation a couple times we would have him over and give him some good food and company. My wife took pictures of their newborn. etc.etc. Basically we were really close with him and his family.
The Problem
Cut to 4 months ago. He his having major problems with his wife. His wife emails my wife and tells her that he is no longer allowed to talk to me because I play games and he has an addiction to gaming. I explain that had I known that then we would never play games and do other things while hanging out. His wife then tells me that she doesn't believe that I wouldn't play games with him and that hanging out with me would be like an alcoholic going to a bar. He is still allowed to hang out with other friends that played games with him. (Facts: He got me into MTG. He played WoW, which I would consistently tell him to get out of. He played 40k before I did and got me into that as well.) I confront her with the facts and she changes her story to the following:
He is too close to me and its damaging their marraige. Their conselor said he was basically having an emotional affair with me and was preventing him from being close to his wife. Not wanting to break up a marriage, I express my sadness that this has happened and was completely willing to leave them alone for however long they needed. I asked if I should just write the guy off as never being able to be his friend again, or if I should expect that we might have the chance to hang out sometime in the distant future. They say the goal is to get to the point where he can hang out with us again.
Where we are now:
4 Months later. Their marraige is doing fine. He messages my wife while at work (they work for the same company, she works from home.) His wife still talks to my wife consistently. If I have to get messages to him (about stuff he owns that is still at my house), then I have to ask another friend to txt the guy for me. Basically, I am shut out from talking to them, while everyone around me is allowed to. She came by the other day to drop off some baby clothes (my wife is due in a month), and when she learned that my wife was busy working, she wouldn't come inside and said she had to go. I said "Good to see you again." Only to get nothing in response. I get nothing from them and I only hear stuff about them from other people I know. They have made no effort to personally let me know that they still care about me or consider me a friend.
I am starting to get sick of being the one that is not allowed to talk to their family, like I am some kind of evil person, while everyone else around me is allowed to. I still care about their family and consider them friends, but that is quickly starting to go away because of how I am being treated. I didn't do anything wrong, yet I am treated like a deadly disease. My hands are completely tied and I am left completely in the dark.
The question:
What should I do to stop feeling hurt? Should I feel hurt? What should I do?
This is long (don't think a Tl:dr would give enough information):
The Setup:
I have/had (don't know which it is now) this really good friend who me and my wife would always hang out with. He was married as well, so we would do couple things pretty consistently. He and I hung out more than the wives hung out, however. His marriage had random problems that he would talk about with me and I would generally give him advice or just give him an ear to vent to. The guy stayed at our apartment for a couple weeks while trying to find an apartment for his family. While his wife was on vacation a couple times we would have him over and give him some good food and company. My wife took pictures of their newborn. etc.etc. Basically we were really close with him and his family.
The Problem
Cut to 4 months ago. He his having major problems with his wife. His wife emails my wife and tells her that he is no longer allowed to talk to me because I play games and he has an addiction to gaming. I explain that had I known that then we would never play games and do other things while hanging out. His wife then tells me that she doesn't believe that I wouldn't play games with him and that hanging out with me would be like an alcoholic going to a bar. He is still allowed to hang out with other friends that played games with him. (Facts: He got me into MTG. He played WoW, which I would consistently tell him to get out of. He played 40k before I did and got me into that as well.) I confront her with the facts and she changes her story to the following:
He is too close to me and its damaging their marraige. Their conselor said he was basically having an emotional affair with me and was preventing him from being close to his wife. Not wanting to break up a marriage, I express my sadness that this has happened and was completely willing to leave them alone for however long they needed. I asked if I should just write the guy off as never being able to be his friend again, or if I should expect that we might have the chance to hang out sometime in the distant future. They say the goal is to get to the point where he can hang out with us again.
Where we are now:
4 Months later. Their marraige is doing fine. He messages my wife while at work (they work for the same company, she works from home.) His wife still talks to my wife consistently. If I have to get messages to him (about stuff he owns that is still at my house), then I have to ask another friend to txt the guy for me. Basically, I am shut out from talking to them, while everyone around me is allowed to. She came by the other day to drop off some baby clothes (my wife is due in a month), and when she learned that my wife was busy working, she wouldn't come inside and said she had to go. I said "Good to see you again." Only to get nothing in response. I get nothing from them and I only hear stuff about them from other people I know. They have made no effort to personally let me know that they still care about me or consider me a friend.
I am starting to get sick of being the one that is not allowed to talk to their family, like I am some kind of evil person, while everyone else around me is allowed to. I still care about their family and consider them friends, but that is quickly starting to go away because of how I am being treated. I didn't do anything wrong, yet I am treated like a deadly disease. My hands are completely tied and I am left completely in the dark.
The question:
What should I do to stop feeling hurt? Should I feel hurt? What should I do?
ObiFett on
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From what I can tell, my wife knows how much this has hurt me and is trying to make sure things are still good so that we can, eventually/hopefully have a relationship with them once they feel comfortable that he is no longer too close to me. The problem is that I almost at the point where I want to say "F this" and explain that since they obviously don't care, neither will I anymore. My wife will most definitely back me up and we'll just be done with them, amicably of course.
As of now, I can see why she is continuing to keep in contact with them.
If its upsetting you that much, then I'd press for a bit more honesty from them, but be prepared for it to blow up in your face.
As someone said, you're all adults. Stop playing into this childish passing notes bullshit and start acting like it.
I agree with this, whole-heartedly. How do I go about doing this, though? I treated this like we are adults at the beginning, but was told that by addressing this that I obviously didn't care about their marriage and that they needed space to make their relationship right. And that I should (and I do) care about their relationship working over my relationship with him working.
So, since I have already told them that I don't want to break up their marriage, that I would give them space, and they told me that the goal is to get to the point that she feels comfortable with him hanging out with me again, I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on if I try to talk to them.
Its kinda supposed to be on their time, but am I unreasonable in wanting to be given some information? Since I already told them that I would stay away until they are ready, how can I approach them about needing information without sounding selfish?
Seriously, no offense, but fuck her, she's crazy.
:edit: Have you talked to him at all since she gave you her ultimatum to stay away? Has he said anything?
:second edit: When they were having previous marital problems, did you ever say anything to him like "Well, if it goes bad, I'm/we're here for you" or "If she kicks you out you're welcome to stay with us" that he may have repeated to his wife? She's pushing you away because you pose a threat to her, or at least that's how all her actions come across, since it doesn't sound like you've ever been anything but a good friend to him.
And no, I have not talked to him directly since then. He doesn't want to risk the marriage and neither do I.
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
Yeah, something doesn't feel right. Her reaction to being around the OP alone was odd as well. You hear of new romantic interests being treated this way, but a friendship? The wife seems incredibly threatened.
Yeah, we said stuff like that to him. And when I say "we", I mean my wife and I. We were often a sounding board for some of his frustrations and would let him vent. And our advice was always that he needed to talk to her about this stuff and or go to counseling if it got real bad. I never felt like we were actually telling him anything other than "It's good to vent and yeah this situation sounds crappy. What can you do to fix this? Have you talked to her about this?" You know, normal advice that pushed him to work it out with her (the healthy way).
I can see how his wife would push us away because we pose a threat, but I would assume that if we posed that kind of threat, however, then she would be pushing my wife away as well. Right?
tell them to get a new one. that's some of the worst counseling I've ever heard of...
Either man up, act like an adult and address both of them directly, or cut all contact (even with your wife)
Sounds to me like the wife is trying to reap all the benefits of having friends while keeping her husband locked up
Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about that counselor either. The counselor gave all this advice to her without the counselor ever even meeting with the husband. o_O
I want to address them both. I guess I'll just go over to their place and make them deal with it. I just can't see it going anyway other than horrendously horrible since she has made it plainly evident that I need to do this on "their time".
HUGE RED FLAG
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
If the above is true, then you should totally speak to them both and try and sort things out, because the situation is not at all fair, and quite childish as others have pointed out. If it was a decision taken with full knowledge on the part of the husband (i.e. - he spoke to the counselor directly and agreed this with him as well as the wife) then maybe just try and talk to him, tell him what you think and see what he says. Either way though, cutting you out but not other friends, or even your wife, seems stupid and very mean, for want of a better word, on their part. I'd certainly be very pissed off if this were me!
*Thanks Thanatos!
If your friend wants to hang out with you, then it sounds like he's not willing to stand up to his wife enough to do so. If you make the initial contact with him then you're meddling in their marriage, which is never good, and digging yourself in deeper with the wife.
Your best bet is to hang out with other friends and stop waiting for your friend and his wife to resolve their issues.
You don't have to cut them off forever, just until they decide to be sane.
No, the crazy lady claimed that the counselor blamed him after she was caught in her first lie about the concerns over gaming addiction. What makes us think that she won't come up with a second lie like this? My guess is that there is no counselor at all, and even if there is one, that's certainly not the advice that they gave.
She's making up reasons for him to not be friends with the OP. I'm not sure how effective calling her on her bullshit is going to be, though.
The best you can do is talk to your friend and get his stand on things.
When I say that, I mean in the most diplomatic possible way. The OP's real goal is to first see if this problem can be solved by anyone but the friend and his friend's wife. To do that, he has to figure out the real reason that the wife doesn't like him.
Yep, this.
@ Javen,
I want to talk to him but I'm pretty sure I'll have to talk to her first, right? To "ok" it? Otherwise, I'll make myself a liar because I told her I would give them time till they are ready.
The most obscure form of communication, I assumed, was PM'ing through this forum. Which we did at the beginning. She was so hardcore as to even look through his PMs on this forum. Which only got him in bigger trouble and me accused of trying to sabotage their marriage.
this sounds to me like it's time to make a gambit...
If it were me I would just cut ties entirely. Your wife talking to them is only making you feel terrible and trying to talk about it with them is going to cause them a fight or two. He doesn't want to hang out with you enough to talk to his wife, tough... (this is taking into account that your wife wouldn't be upset with cutting ties because forcing her to do so would be a bad idea as well and make you no better than his wife)
Seriosuly? That's hardcore paranoia and a warning sign of spousal abusers.
Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
really bad
Unfortunately for him, in a situation like this, the wife comes first.
Oddly enough my sister is a marriage counselor. I asked her about this and yeah, no competent marriage counselor would say any such thing. The point of counseling is to get both parties to talk, not assign blame to an area of the husband's life and have the wife go home and tell him about it.
Someone is lying to you. If you heard this from your wife, tell her the lady is full of shit. There's no reason for you to be involved with these people.
Yeah. This dude is a pussy. Fuck him.
(Pussy dude, if you still read this forum, you are a P-U-S-S-Y and an ungrateful prick. The OP opened his home up to you for weeks and you let your crazy bitch of a wife scapegoat him for your marital problems. Fuck you dude.)
i like your appraisal, but that was COLD, man! Like, arctic- temperature.
Anyway, ObiFett: There really isn't anything that you can do at this point, except, as others have said, talk this over with YOUR wife, tell her that you feel that your friend's wife may not have been entirely truthful with you, citing the non-existent counselor as the prime example, but you must also try to convey to her how it makes you feel, when she, and your other friends, are allowed contact with this guy, yet you aren't.
There's only so much that you can give to someone; for whatever reason your friend has indirectly proved himself to be without merit for your taking care of him, as he doesn't even seem to have the self- respect to stand up to his wife to talk to you in person, even just to say that he has to go off the radar until his marriage can get sorted.
That his wife is a jealous, controlling, child-in-a-woman's-body is a fact that you probably will NOT be able to change. If you can speak to them both to air your side of things, that's great, but if all you are able to do is just get through to your friend on his mobile phone, tell him you're sorry things have gone this way, and that he can always reach you DIRECTLY, and leave it at that.
Your friend's wife is evidently too paranoid and controlling to be in any semblance of a healthy relationship anyway, so it may be the case that when they ultimately divorce, your friend will look to you for support.
Don't blame yourself at all in this situation- you have every right, though, to feel aggrieved, but dwelling on it will only hurt you.
No lime yet in this thread? good. EDIT: no fully limed, yet.
Talk to this guy. Work it out. There's something absolutely wrong here. This won't be easy, but if you're that messed up over what has happened then there's something deeper at work. Really, sounds like this guy's wife may have an issue with him having a social life.