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Impossible Situation - Real Estate
SatanIsMyMotor
Fuck Warren EllisRegistered User regular
Fuck Warren EllisRegistered User regular
I've already posted a couple of threads with regards to my house buying adventure. Well we've been tossed a new curve ball and I have no idea what kind of tact we should be using here.
First, some context. We have found a house and are actually set to close and move in this coming Friday. We currently live in an apartment but our lease is up come the 30th. We've purchased all of our furniture and appliances and all of that is set to be delivered on Friday - the day of our closing.
This morning we receive an email from our agent with a forwarded message from the listing agent. Over the course of the weekend the vendor's son (and three other young men) were killed in a local car accident. Needless to say this is obviously a tragedy. We've been told that closing will no longer happen on Friday - which, despite the contractual obligations, we completely understand. What is basically a mild inconvenience for us (moving delivery/moving dates) is a traumatic life event for this single mother we're buying from.
What worries us is the reality of the situation on our end. Come the 30th we have no place to live and about $10,000 dollars worth of furniture and appliances with no place to go. Beyond that, the vendor could decide that she doesn't want to sell anymore - I mean, I can't imagine losing a son and then having to box his shit up less than a week later and leave everything behind.
How should we play this? We want to sympathetic to her needs but, frankly, we're in a bind. Thoughts?
First, some context. We have found a house and are actually set to close and move in this coming Friday. We currently live in an apartment but our lease is up come the 30th. We've purchased all of our furniture and appliances and all of that is set to be delivered on Friday - the day of our closing.
This morning we receive an email from our agent with a forwarded message from the listing agent. Over the course of the weekend the vendor's son (and three other young men) were killed in a local car accident. Needless to say this is obviously a tragedy. We've been told that closing will no longer happen on Friday - which, despite the contractual obligations, we completely understand. What is basically a mild inconvenience for us (moving delivery/moving dates) is a traumatic life event for this single mother we're buying from.
What worries us is the reality of the situation on our end. Come the 30th we have no place to live and about $10,000 dollars worth of furniture and appliances with no place to go. Beyond that, the vendor could decide that she doesn't want to sell anymore - I mean, I can't imagine losing a son and then having to box his shit up less than a week later and leave everything behind.
How should we play this? We want to sympathetic to her needs but, frankly, we're in a bind. Thoughts?
SatanIsMyMotor on
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Is it possible to have a legally-authorized represent the other side at closing? Of course what happened was a tragedy, but you're also in a bind and don't have many options.
My advice is to have your agent and the listing agent feel out the situation. You have about a week to figure out if she is going to follow through on the contact or if it's going to go to pot. Since your lease ends the 30th, you have about two weeks to make arrangements. Maybe contact your current landlord to see if they'd be willing to give you a 30-day extension. If I were you, I would also look into finding a short-term storage solution for your new furniture and appliances in case the deal falls through. Storage facilities with insurance are the best bet.
The attorney in me says you can bring legal action against her if she backs out of the deal now, but that’s not really what you’re asking. Plus, I think the last thing this lady needs is someone threatening her with a lawsuit.
Word is now that she's backing out of the agreement. She's asked for two additional weeks just to decide what it is that she wants to do. Our lawyer advised us against going with that as, after two weeks, she could just ask for 2 more. Regardless we lose our interest rate by month's end so two weeks is not an option for us as we'd have to completely revamp our financing which would in turn affect the purchase and sale agreement.
What I need here is anecdotal legal advice. I want to sue this lady but I have no idea what we can sue her for. We have no place to live. A mortgage rate that will raise more than a full percentage point. Over $10K in new furniture and appliances with no place to go. All of our vacation time at work gone because of time off to work through this deal and now we need to take more time off to find a new place.
This lady was also buying another home - which she's also backing out of. The people she was buying from are half way through the construction of a new home so I'm sure they will be sueing her as well.
I know that what she's going through is a terrible thing (her son was killed whilst street racing) but it does not justify putting two families in this situation. My hope is that just the threat of legal action will spur her to put aside her grief, or put someone else in power as a proxy, so that she does go through with it. If she doesn't then fine, but we need to be compensated for all of our loses here.
Which we're doing. I'm wondering, in the interim between today and tomorrow when we speak to the lawyer, what are options are in terms of compensation.
depending on the clauses she might have a viable reason for breaking teh contract
It's her house.
Gah, this is going to be such a friggen mess.
It's a shitty thing to do but this is just what you're going to have to do if she doesn't come to her senses. It's understandable that she's going through very hard times but she's only going to make them much harder by backing out on you and the other seller. Have you had any personal contact with her? You could ask your lawyer if it's a good idea to plead with her personally before playing hard ball.
This is for the most part correct. Depending on your state, you may/may not be able to factor in the difference in interest rates, but all immeidate damages you will suffer (rent, storage, atty. fees, difference in price of a comparable new home) can be requested in a lawsuit.
However, unlike mts, I don't think having personal contact with her is a bad thing. Going to her directly and telling her in so many words "I'm sorry for your lose, but please understand how your decision to back out of our agreement will hurt my family..." may either shake her into changing her mind, or get her to agree to pay damages, avoiding a long, costly lawsuit.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Someone needs to do this. Maybe not you, but your lawyer or someone.
If the Rules of Professional Conduct are the same in OP's state as in PA, then his lawyer can't talk to the seller directly because she has legal representation, so he would have to talk to her lawyer. But the OP can certianly contact the seller directly.
Ah. Yeah I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Other than, you know, talking about problems before escalating to legal action is almost always a really good idea. (Something my mother always told me.)
We've now discovered that her lawyer is a complete joke. He's been impossible to get a hold of and has expressed to out lawyer that he "wants to avoid talking to her while this "awkward" situation is taking place".
So in short, he's scared of her and nothing is being communicated to her.
After reading this, then I definately think you should speak to her directly. My adivce would be do it in person, not over the phone.
There is truth in this... I can be spun in a very negative light in front of a judge. "He came to my house while I was grieving and demanded that I sell to him!" type thing in tears in front of a judge...
IANAL, etc.
I agree that it seems like a bad idea to approach her in person.
Ask your lawyer what contact (if any, how, by whom, etc) would be appropriate. A card offering your condolances perhaps? As much as you might feel for this woman's loss, grief does not excuse someone from a contract, and "not wanting to contact her during this rough time" sounds like two-bit bullshit to buy time, as they're probably aware that this is a time sensitive arrangement.
I'm sorry to hear about both the loss and the trouble it's causing your family, but as strong an advocate of doing the humane thing wherever possible, don't do it if it'll jeopardize your future, as an individual or as a family. If you end up having to sue this woman for thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars based on incurred expenses, you don't need to be handing her any help in her defense.
I'm a big fan of working things out person to person where possible for small incidents. At 4 to 5 digit figures, it's no longer a small incident, and should be left to the professionals, or at least guided heavily by them.
It's not quite that black & white. True, if this matter comes to a hearing or trial, she could recount what was said in the conversation in her testimony, but other than embellishments, what is she going to say that is going to be damaging to the OPs case? He is only discussing his case to her why it would be difficult on him if she backs out of the deal.
Obviously, the OP should be as cordial, polite and non-confrontational as humanly possible if he dose speak with the seller. Absolutely under no circumstances should he bully, threaten, raise his voice at her and/or demand she follow through on the contract, no matter how pissed he gets. Maybe bringing along a wittiness is a good idea. But I think the OP has enough common sense to know all this.
EDIT: This is more a judgment call thing than anything. Remember, idealy, the OP wants the seller to follow through on the contract, not be in position to best sue her.
Nope, you have a lawyer to draft a pre-closing occupancy agreement with provision for facsimile signatures.
We've actually found a new place that we like. That being said, we're still going through with the closing tomorrow - though she will likely not go through with it. We've agreed to give her an additional week beyond if she agrees to paying a $5000 penalty plus any other damages we later decide to collect for.
Best case scenario is that she ends up closing. Worst is that she defaults, we go for the other place, then sue her for damages.
It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow (closing day).
So closing day has come and gone and we are now moving into a new house. It's actually a nicer house, though it is more expensive. The other thing that sucks is that we don't move in until the 11th of September. This means we'll need to find a place to stay for a couple of weeks.
On the day of closing we had our lawyer send their lawyer a letter. We basically said we were willing to give her another week if she agreed that should she decide to not close she incurs a $5000 penalty along with whatever damages we sue for. Her real estate agent sent us a nasty email which in turn really pissed me off (it was highly unprofessional). But we never received any word from their lawyer at all. They actually relisted the property without even telling us.
In the end we've found another spot and they've accepted our offer (this whole thing was another gigantic cluster as well - a story for another time). We'll probably still have to sue the lady for some of the costs we've incurred but we honestly feel better now that she can take her time.
Relisting the property after bailing on the deal, that doesn't seem to make sense. Wouldn't the property go completely off the market until she has time to get her bearings together, and then be relisted?
Yes, that's exactly how the agent was coming off.
As for relisting the property - I can't really speculate. We kind of thought it was just a "fuck you" to us since we wouldn't agree to her pushing the close date more than a month with no guarantee she'd ever actually pull through.
In any event, do not forget that your biggest loss here is your interest rate. You said that you would lose your original rate if this deal didn't go through.. did your bank/lender end up honoring the original rate?
I'm going to assume that rate was around 3.5% to 4%? The new rate you would get today would be closer to 6%. That's a six figure difference over the course of your mortgage. Forget the money you might have spent on an inspector, forget the cost of moving, forget the cost of finding a place to stay for 2 weeks.. that interest alone is the kicker.