I'd honestly be disappointed if the last class was a Rogue. I was hoping the final class would be something rediculous and new like a mad scientist clockwork gadget/trap thrower or a Hugh Jackman-Van Helsing type demon hunter. Unless they throw out something really special, I think I'll skip the bow/ranged class again.
If they're going with the Ranger flavor, "Hunter" might be a good name for the class to separate it a bit from the overused "Ranger".
And I'd hazard a guess at "no", or at least, "nothing relavent to the level you're at".
But I could be mistaken.
Shields are okay though, right? Because I couldn't live without Stormshield. Seriously, it has saved me many lives.
Beats me.
My speculation on armor type is based on Blizzard typically making the heavier armours (meant to be worn by those classes that take a heavier physical beating) require significant Str, which is often a key stat for melee classes. Given that caster classes more often focus on other stats, it seems to be at conflict with their previous MO.
Perhaps, however, they'll just do away with splitting the armour types as such, and as you naturally level each class will just gain access to different armour types at different times? Perhaps urahonky's Wizard/Wizard..ess will be wearing level appropriate plate at some point, it might just be significantly after the Barbarian gained access to it?
However, this strikes me as unlikely, as they've noted that the Monk is meant to be a light armour/high damage class, so I guess they are keeping armour tiers.
Assuming 3 tiers, I'd have the Monk/Wizard in cloth, the barbarian in plate and the witch doctor in something in between? With the theorized 'archer' class probably at the same level?
They also might have armor that requires caster stats to wear, rather than just str/dex. This was one of the things I liked about Titan Quest - there were basically three 'trees' of armor, one that focused on melee stats, one that focused on ranged stats, and one focused on caster stats.
I have to agree with Rakai. Games are just abstractions of real things. To say one abstraction is better because it is more realistic but doesn't improve gameplay is missing the point. Inventory tetris actually detracts from a player's ability get items and trade them, which seems counter-productive to me.
So you'd rather have unlimited inventory space?
I would in fact. Incessant town trips are fucking tedious. It wasn't toooo bad in D1 and pre-expansion D2 but after they added charms to the mix, inventory management got fucking stupid.
I'd like it be somewhere where it's a mix of both without making it a pain in the neck, but not trivially easy. It's one thing to have to make a decision to keep or drop something based on inventory space. It's another thing to spend 10 minutes fucking with my inventory and stash and making several trips to town because a 4x1 polearm won't fit in my bag no matter I rearrange things. That's the kind of thing I want to avoid because that was 10 minutes I could have spent leveling. Having just 2 or 3 sizes/shapes for inventory items makes sense because it means I still have to make decisions on what to pick up, but I can click the auto-sort button and know right away whether or not that new item will fit.
What? Inventory management wasn't hard. There was no difficulty to it. What it did entail was a lot of stopping the flow of action to identify crap to know if it was worth keeping in your (maybe) 4x4 squares of free space. Inventory tetris is the great pacing ruiner.
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
There was a russian game called dawn of magic. It was pretty awful but it had the possibility of combining 2 spells together and that was pretty great. Another nice feature was that it mutated your limbs if you used certain spells too much.
alset85 on
override said: I can't wait until Toady causes pressurized water to be able to actually damage things. I want to hit goblins with a shit cannon of such pressure that the meat is ripped from their bones
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
There was a russian game called dawn of magic. It was pretty awful but it had the possibility of combining 2 spells together and that was pretty great. Another nice feature was that it mutated your limbs if you used certain spells too much.
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
Well the talent trees have been restructured. You can put 5 points into shouts and it'll unlock the 2nd tab in w/e the other barbs trees are called, without putting points into em.
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
I see your point, but the only differentiation you get with D2 stat points is whether or not you can equip certain items and the rest was dumped into the primary stat (and that was usually just HP). Using your example, creating a melee sorc is shoehorning a class into another class' role that did that job much better. I'd rather see customization that created a variety of interesting wizard play-styles rather than a wizard trying to be a barb. For example, you could have a wizard stat for direct damage, and another for AOE damage, so you could basically choose one over the other or build them up to equal levels. Do you want to be a crowd manager or a boss killer? That seems more like customization than whether or not you could equip a freakishly huge sword.
Guys I've been relatively busy. Is there any media or information that needs to be in the OP?
If you missed it (I think a lot of people did) the G4TV interview had a lot of info in it that seemed to quell a lot of speculation on a bunch of topics.
Off the top of my head:
* there will be respecs
* they are trying to keep Diablo a trading game, where gold will have value with vendor gold sinks to prevent inflation - no word on AH or just better trading
* no stat allocation; items most likely restricted by class/level
* hybrid inventory system - just 2(?) item sizes in inventory so less tetris but still need to manage finite space
* level 85+ items will be bind-on-equip to allow trading and prevent item inflation
Guys I've been relatively busy. Is there any media or information that needs to be in the OP?
If you missed it (I think a lot of people did) the G4TV interview had a lot of info in it that seemed to quell a lot of speculation on a bunch of topics.
Off the top of my head:
* there will be respecs
* they are trying to keep Diablo a trading game, where gold will have value with vendor gold sinks to prevent inflation - no word on AH or just better trading
* no stat allocation
* hybrid inventory system - just 2(?) item sizes in inventory so less tetris but still need to manage finite space
* level 85+ items will be bind-on-pickup to allow trading and prevent item inflation
Guys I've been relatively busy. Is there any media or information that needs to be in the OP?
If you missed it (I think a lot of people did) the G4TV interview had a lot of info in it that seemed to quell a lot of speculation on a bunch of topics.
Off the top of my head:
* there will be respecs
* they are trying to keep Diablo a trading game, where gold will have value with vendor gold sinks to prevent inflation - no word on AH or just better trading
* no stat allocation
* hybrid inventory system - just 2(?) item sizes in inventory so less tetris but still need to manage finite space
* level 85+ items will be bind-on-pickup to allow trading and prevent item inflation
You mean bind on equip right?
OOPS! Yes, bind-on-equip. Damn, how could I get that wrong?
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
I see your point, but the only differentiation you get with D2 stat points is whether or not you can equip certain items and the rest was dumped into the primary stat (and that was usually just HP). Using your example, creating a melee sorc is shoehorning a class into another class' role that did that job much better. I'd rather see customization that created a variety of interesting wizard play-styles rather than a wizard trying to be a barb. For example, you could have a wizard stat for direct damage, and another for AOE damage, so you could basically choose one over the other or build them up to equal levels. Do you want to be a crowd manager or a boss killer? That seems more like customization than whether or not you could equip a freakishly huge sword.
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
I see your point, but the only differentiation you get with D2 stat points is whether or not you can equip certain items and the rest was dumped into the primary stat (and that was usually just HP). Using your example, creating a melee sorc is shoehorning a class into another class' role that did that job much better. I'd rather see customization that created a variety of interesting wizard play-styles rather than a wizard trying to be a barb. For example, you could have a wizard stat for direct damage, and another for AOE damage, so you could basically choose one over the other or build them up to equal levels. Do you want to be a crowd manager or a boss killer? That seems more like customization than whether or not you could equip a freakishly huge sword.
But you could do that in D2 WITH stats. Sorcs can be either single damage or AoE (fuck that term for a game like this). How does removing stats help IMPROVE that?
urahonky on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Guys I've been relatively busy. Is there any media or information that needs to be in the OP?
If you missed it (I think a lot of people did) the G4TV interview had a lot of info in it that seemed to quell a lot of speculation on a bunch of topics.
Off the top of my head:
* there will be respecs
* they are trying to keep Diablo a trading game, where gold will have value with vendor gold sinks to prevent inflation - no word on AH or just better trading
* no stat allocation
* hybrid inventory system - just 2(?) item sizes in inventory so less tetris but still need to manage finite space
* level 85+ items will be bind-on-pickup to allow trading and prevent item inflation
You mean bind on equip right?
OOPS! Yes, bind-on-equip. Damn, how could I get that wrong?
Rock on, I shall add this information to the OP. And for the record, I like that inventory system. It's like a compromise of sorts.
I'd honestly be disappointed if the last class was a Rogue. I was hoping the final class would be something rediculous and new like a mad scientist clockwork gadget/trap thrower or a Hugh Jackman-Van Helsing type demon hunter. Unless they throw out something really special, I think I'll skip the bow/ranged class again.
If they're going with the Ranger flavor, "Hunter" might be a good name for the class to separate it a bit from the overused "Ranger".
Except wait, that's a WoW class, isn't it.
Yup. Let's think of some cool name for Diablo III's Hunter/ Ranger class.
But you could do that in D2 WITH stats. Sorcs can be either single damage or AoE (fuck that term for a game like this). How does removing stats help IMPROVE that?
You replace stats with something that isn't opaque and mathy.
Man what were they thinking? That's the worst thing they could do! Now we'll never be able to do the crazy builds we could with the first 2.
This shit needs to stop. Blizzard knows better than to cripple character customization. But they also know better than to achieve it with something as bland and opaque as stat points.
Yeah. Everything Blizzard does even when it looks like disgusting dumbing down makes their games more FUN in the end. I think that's Blizz main goal: to make their games fun. If a game is fun you enjoy playing it and talking about it and you want to play it even more.
But you could do that in D2 WITH stats. Sorcs can be either single damage or AoE (fuck that term for a game like this). How does removing stats help IMPROVE that?
Because for the most part, both builds used very similar stats, with perhaps minor variance based on differing item configurations, and then dumping the rest into Stamina and maybe some energy if they were feeling frisky?
The end result is that the stats were just an ends to a means; being able to equip your shit. Thus, the items themselves were more important than the ability to place (or misplace) skill points.
So perhaps this 'nerfs' the freedom to make a "melee sorceress" or a plate wearing necromancer. The talent trees and skill rune customization looks like they'll be absolutely insanely cool. Instead of pouring points into Str and Dex to wear some armour and swing a giant sword, you'll be able to make your teleport go further, and perhaps damage enemies when you appear. Suddenly you're Nightcrawler! Or to include another damage type or effect to a spell, or combine skills for crazy abilities.
If anything, they've removed one level of customization that was really just the domain of the crazies and the math whores, and replaced it with a system of a different nature that could be absurdly customizable and lead to piles of playstyle changes.
So while your Sorceress in D2 could run around with a giant sword, your Wizard in D3 can teleport into a group of enemies and they just die, or something.
How cool is that?
Note: that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there'll be plenty of incredible combinations of runes and talents that'll make for just as many varieties of each class (if not moreso) than we had back when we could choose to go to X Str for ____ or X+12 Str for __________.
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To be fair, dex was a pretty important stat for shield users. The higher your level, the higher you needed to pump dex to attain the same block percentage. Of course they had to invent Holy Shield, so my point is kind of moot, but it still applied to other classes.
But you could do that in D2 WITH stats. Sorcs can be either single damage or AoE (fuck that term for a game like this). How does removing stats help IMPROVE that?
You replace stats with something that isn't opaque and mathy.
Sigh... What I mean is: With stats you still had the chance to make whatever skill choice you wanted. On top of that you basically had the chance to wear whatever armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted. So removing stats (and thus removing the ability to wear any of the armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted) basically removes a lot of the customization that I loved about D2.
Ick, BoE items? They could at least make them BoA. Half the fun in D2 was acquiring weird gear and then sharing it with your alts. I didn't play D2 to spend all day in the trade chatrooms to get a starter set for a new alt.
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But you could do that in D2 WITH stats. Sorcs can be either single damage or AoE (fuck that term for a game like this). How does removing stats help IMPROVE that?
Because for the most part, both builds used very similar stats, with perhaps minor variance based on differing item configurations, and then dumping the rest into Stamina and maybe some energy if they were feeling frisky?
The end result is that the stats were just an ends to a means; being able to equip your shit. Thus, the items themselves were more important than the ability to place (or misplace) skill points.
So perhaps this 'nerfs' the freedom to make a "melee sorceress" or a plate wearing necromancer. The talent trees and skill rune customization looks like they'll be absolutely insanely cool. Instead of pouring points into Str and Dex to wear some armour and swing a giant sword, you'll be able to make your teleport go further, and perhaps damage enemies when you appear. Suddenly you're Nightcrawler! Or to include another damage type or effect to a spell, or combine skills for crazy abilities.
If anything, they've removed one level of customization that was really just the domain of the crazies and the math whores, and replaced it with a system of a different nature that could be absurdly customizable and lead to piles of playstyle changes.
So while your Sorceress in D2 could run around with a giant sword, your Wizard in D3 can teleport into a group of enemies and they just die, or something.
How cool is that?
Note: that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there'll be plenty of incredible combinations of runes and talents that'll make for just as many varieties of each class (if not moreso) than we had back when we could choose to go to X Str for ____ or X+12 Str for __________.
The thing is, everything you're talking about sounds EXACTLY like synergies from D2. There's nothing different other than they make putting points into a skill a little more rewarding than "an additional 1% damage increase".
Ick, BoE items? They could at least make them BoA. Half the fun in D2 was acquiring weird gear and then sharing it with your alts. I didn't play D2 to spend all day in the trade chatrooms to get a starter set for a new alt.
You won't need to share it with alts because you won't need more than one Barb. You can respec his skills at any point.
urahonky on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Ick, BoE items? They could at least make them BoA. Half the fun in D2 was acquiring weird gear and then sharing it with your alts. I didn't play D2 to spend all day in the trade chatrooms to get a starter set for a new alt.
You could always, y'know, ask any of us for items. We're all friends here right?
I see your point, but the only differentiation you get with D2 stat points is whether or not you can equip certain items and the rest was dumped into the primary stat (and that was usually just HP). Using your example, creating a melee sorc is shoehorning a class into another class' role that did that job much better. I'd rather see customization that created a variety of interesting wizard play-styles rather than a wizard trying to be a barb. For example, you could have a wizard stat for direct damage, and another for AOE damage, so you could basically choose one over the other or build them up to equal levels. Do you want to be a crowd manager or a boss killer? That seems more like customization than whether or not you could equip a freakishly huge sword.
A Diablo II melee sorceress actually has a pretty unique playstyle that none of the other classes have (and, notably, can out-damage any caster sorceress. Seriously. Enchant + dual Dreams + Zeal + Mastery melee bonus = O_o dps ).
However, it only became possible via players picking items not intended for a "caster" character and putting them on a sorceress. I daresay this is what many players are thinking of when they think of 'customization'; all the far-out oddball builds that turn out to be kickass awesome because of some unnoticed gameplay mechanic. Of course, 99% of the time, a wizard wearing plate-mail is just asking for a beating, but if the player knows what s/he's doing, then why not?
Presumably a compromise is possible here; just make customization a goldsink.
With stats you still had the chance to make whatever skill choice you wanted. On top of that you basically had the chance to wear whatever armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted. So removing stats (and thus removing the ability to wear any of the armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted) basically removes a lot of the customization that I loved about D2.
But how many of those were viable (at least as equally effective as a class that wasn't trying to fit a round peg into a square hole) and how many of them were simply tests of either superhuman patience or attempting to break something?
Don't get me wrong, I see that there is something in D2 that you (and others) enjoyed and that's being removed and that makes you understandably disappointed. However, beyond your own fun, can you see how the removal of a system that was, for the vast majority of players and builds (if I might assume a bit) mostly a non-issue? And how focusing on the new type of customization might be better for the game as a whole, allowing for actual customization rather than an effort in math manipulation and gear plotting?
The thing is, everything you're talking about sounds EXACTLY like synergies from D2. There's nothing different other than they make putting points into a skill a little more rewarding than "an additional 1% damage increase".
But synergies were inherant to the skills themselves. No effort was made on the player's behalf aside from "do I want to max this skill, or can I get away with a few points or just one in it?", whereas with the rune system for skills, you'll be able to adjust how a skill works at its very core.
Rather than "I put x points in Static Field so I get Y effect", you'll potentially have Rune A and Rune B with Skill C which make for OMG, and then you swap in Rune D for Rune A and ZOMG, and then Boss ____ is super awesome and you get a Rune G and FUCK ME THAT'S RECOCKULOUS!.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
I can partially understand where urahonky is coming from. But the thing is, the only time a system that customizable works is when all options lead to success. In order to succeed in the hell difficulty of the game, you had to follow one of the viable patterns established by people. Not exactly to a T, but close enough. Allowing a wizard class to pump up their strength may be great for shits and giggles, but if it seriously handicaps you to not being able to progress why bother?
So what I'm saying is, the whole thing would have to be designed so that your strength-buffed wizard would have support from the actual design of the game so that he is indeed kickass. But that's not the case. Instead, it's, "Ha, check out my 150 strength wizard guys! Let's go k- I'm dead. "
With stats you still had the chance to make whatever skill choice you wanted. On top of that you basically had the chance to wear whatever armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted. So removing stats (and thus removing the ability to wear any of the armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted) basically removes a lot of the customization that I loved about D2.
But how many of those were viable (at least as equally effective as a class that wasn't trying to fit a round peg into a square hole) and how many of them were simply tests of either superhuman patience or attempting to break something?
Don't get me wrong, I see that there is something in D2 that you (and others) enjoyed and that's being removed and that makes you understandably disappointed. However, beyond your own fun, can you see how the removal of a system that was, for the vast majority of players and builds (if I might assume a bit) mostly a non-issue? And how focusing on the new type of customization might be better for the game as a whole, allowing for actual customization rather than an effort in math manipulation and gear plotting?
The thing is, everything you're talking about sounds EXACTLY like synergies from D2. There's nothing different other than they make putting points into a skill a little more rewarding than "an additional 1% damage increase".
But synergies were inherant to the skills themselves. No effort was made on the player's behalf aside from "do I want to max this skill, or can I get away with a few points or just one in it?", whereas with the rune system for skills, you'll be able to adjust how a skill works at its very core.
Rather than "I put x points in Static Field so I get Y effect", you'll potentially have Rune A and Rune B with Skill C which make for OMG, and then you swap in Rune D for Rune A and ZOMG, and then Boss ____ is super awesome and you get a Rune G and FUCK ME THAT'S RECOCKULOUS!.
Ahhhh! So much to respond to, but I'm going to get fired from work if I continue to sit on my ass and do nothing all day. I am not ducking out of this conversation because I can't answer... I am ducking out because of work. :P (Sorry to leave you guys hanging... And I hope I don't sound hostile anyone. I don't care how you feel about the game. If you hated stats that's cool. If you like the idea of respecs, that's cool too)
I'm just curious, are runes dropped or can you purchase them?
I can partially understand where urahonky is coming from. But the thing is, the only time a system that customizable works is when all options lead to success. In order to succeed in the hell difficulty of the game, you had to follow one of the viable patterns established by people. Not exactly to a T, but close enough. Allowing a wizard class to pump up their strength may be great for shits and giggles, but if it seriously handicaps you to not being able to progress why bother?
So what I'm saying is, the whole thing would have to be designed so that your strength-buffed wizard would have support from the actual design of the game so that he is indeed kickass. But that's not the case. Instead, it's, "Ha, check out my 150 strength wizard guys! Let's go k- I'm dead. "
It was mainly for fun and to enjoy myself. I don't take my D2ing so seriously. If I can make it through normal and parts of Nightmare I consider a build I make up as "good". I don't have the patience for Hell, even with a decked out Sorc.
e: Which is why I kept coming back to D2. I'd sit around, grind for a bit, find a good sword and decide who would be the most fun using the sword. Usually necros or sorcs because it's taboo to see them holding it.
urahonky on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I can partially understand where urahonky is coming from. But the thing is, the only time a system that customizable works is when all options lead to success. In order to succeed in the hell difficulty of the game, you had to follow one of the viable patterns established by people. Not exactly to a T, but close enough. Allowing a wizard class to pump up their strength may be great for shits and giggles, but if it seriously handicaps you to not being able to progress why bother?
So what I'm saying is, the whole thing would have to be designed so that your strength-buffed wizard would have support from the actual design of the game so that he is indeed kickass. But that's not the case. Instead, it's, "Ha, check out my 150 strength wizard guys! Let's go k- I'm dead. "
It was mainly for fun and to enjoy myself. I don't take my D2ing so seriously. If I can make it through normal and parts of Nightmare I consider a build I make up as "good". I don't have the patience for Hell, even with a decked out Sorc.
e: Which is why I kept coming back to D2. I'd sit around, grind for a bit, find a good sword and decide who would be the most fun using the sword. Usually necros or sorcs because it's taboo to see them holding it.
Aye, I don't take it seriously, but I would like to have some level of success when I play it.
The armor/weapon requirements will be restricted by level and class. They have said this very thing in a few interviews mainly because they are tossing out stat building, so they have to restrict them in other ways.
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
I see your point, but the only differentiation you get with D2 stat points is whether or not you can equip certain items and the rest was dumped into the primary stat (and that was usually just HP). Using your example, creating a melee sorc is shoehorning a class into another class' role that did that job much better. I'd rather see customization that created a variety of interesting wizard play-styles rather than a wizard trying to be a barb. For example, you could have a wizard stat for direct damage, and another for AOE damage, so you could basically choose one over the other or build them up to equal levels. Do you want to be a crowd manager or a boss killer? That seems more like customization than whether or not you could equip a freakishly huge sword.
But you could do that in D2 WITH stats. Sorcs can be either single damage or AoE (fuck that term for a game like this). How does removing stats help IMPROVE that?
I think removing customizable stats helps the possibility of item customization. In DII, there was no real way to use stat points to significantly increase your damage output, so 99% of all characters just dumped everything they could in vitality and called it a day. My personal theory is that this was due to the sheer amount of points that a character was given to play with- making strength or dexterity too significant would make the option to dump so many points there too powerful to balance against.
In DIII, they're making an effort to ensure that everyone's damage is dependent upon their gear, casters included. I'm not sure how much of this will depend on stats, but in the least, it's now more feasible for the amounts of stats you get from your gear to have a greater effect on your character, since there are so many fewer points available for min-maxing.
This, of course, is all besides their stated reasons for the change, which were to make it less possible to cripple your character with seemingly logical choices.
I can partially understand where urahonky is coming from. But the thing is, the only time a system that customizable works is when all options lead to success. In order to succeed in the hell difficulty of the game, you had to follow one of the viable patterns established by people. Not exactly to a T, but close enough. Allowing a wizard class to pump up their strength may be great for shits and giggles, but if it seriously handicaps you to not being able to progress why bother?
So what I'm saying is, the whole thing would have to be designed so that your strength-buffed wizard would have support from the actual design of the game so that he is indeed kickass. But that's not the case. Instead, it's, "Ha, check out my 150 strength wizard guys! Let's go k- I'm dead. "
+1
Diablo II could have been so much better and still retain customizability. The problem was that the effects and importance of stats were so atrociously unbalanced. People honestly don't min-max that much, but not sinking as many points as possible in Vitality meant that your character would be simply incapable in Hell. So people do it.
Think about it this way. Strength in Diablo II allowed you to wear heavier armors; putting points in Strength would entail not putting points in Vitality, so your health would be a little less. So the defence bonus from heavier armors should be enough to compensate for this! Crap, how is this a difficult idea to implement?
Ick, BoE items? They could at least make them BoA. Half the fun in D2 was acquiring weird gear and then sharing it with your alts. I didn't play D2 to spend all day in the trade chatrooms to get a starter set for a new alt.
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The game needs a Space Marine class.
They also might have armor that requires caster stats to wear, rather than just str/dex. This was one of the things I liked about Titan Quest - there were basically three 'trees' of armor, one that focused on melee stats, one that focused on ranged stats, and one focused on caster stats.
I am a freaking nerd.
What? Inventory management wasn't hard. There was no difficulty to it. What it did entail was a lot of stopping the flow of action to identify crap to know if it was worth keeping in your (maybe) 4x4 squares of free space. Inventory tetris is the great pacing ruiner.
LoL: failboattootoot
Losing customization in the process.
Now if they allow the combination of certain skills that would appease me. Frost Lightning Field, which zaps them with lightening then slows them down.
There was a russian game called dawn of magic. It was pretty awful but it had the possibility of combining 2 spells together and that was pretty great. Another nice feature was that it mutated your limbs if you used certain spells too much.
Steam ID
Hmm. I'd be willing to give it a shot.
Well the talent trees have been restructured. You can put 5 points into shouts and it'll unlock the 2nd tab in w/e the other barbs trees are called, without putting points into em.
I see your point, but the only differentiation you get with D2 stat points is whether or not you can equip certain items and the rest was dumped into the primary stat (and that was usually just HP). Using your example, creating a melee sorc is shoehorning a class into another class' role that did that job much better. I'd rather see customization that created a variety of interesting wizard play-styles rather than a wizard trying to be a barb. For example, you could have a wizard stat for direct damage, and another for AOE damage, so you could basically choose one over the other or build them up to equal levels. Do you want to be a crowd manager or a boss killer? That seems more like customization than whether or not you could equip a freakishly huge sword.
Appreciated.
-Content-
The biggest problem really is that we don't know just how rigid or comprehensive the list is, and so we're all expecting the worst.
If you missed it (I think a lot of people did) the G4TV interview had a lot of info in it that seemed to quell a lot of speculation on a bunch of topics.
Off the top of my head:
* there will be respecs
* they are trying to keep Diablo a trading game, where gold will have value with vendor gold sinks to prevent inflation - no word on AH or just better trading
* no stat allocation; items most likely restricted by class/level
* hybrid inventory system - just 2(?) item sizes in inventory so less tetris but still need to manage finite space
* level 85+ items will be bind-on-equip to allow trading and prevent item inflation
e: bind-on-equip, not bind-on-pickup
You mean bind on equip right?
OOPS! Yes, bind-on-equip. Damn, how could I get that wrong?
I was liming this so hard I ran out.
But you could do that in D2 WITH stats. Sorcs can be either single damage or AoE (fuck that term for a game like this). How does removing stats help IMPROVE that?
Rock on, I shall add this information to the OP. And for the record, I like that inventory system. It's like a compromise of sorts.
Yup. Let's think of some cool name for Diablo III's Hunter/ Ranger class.
Oh I know. Stalker.
You replace stats with something that isn't opaque and mathy.
Yeah. Everything Blizzard does even when it looks like disgusting dumbing down makes their games more FUN in the end. I think that's Blizz main goal: to make their games fun. If a game is fun you enjoy playing it and talking about it and you want to play it even more.
Because for the most part, both builds used very similar stats, with perhaps minor variance based on differing item configurations, and then dumping the rest into Stamina and maybe some energy if they were feeling frisky?
The end result is that the stats were just an ends to a means; being able to equip your shit. Thus, the items themselves were more important than the ability to place (or misplace) skill points.
So perhaps this 'nerfs' the freedom to make a "melee sorceress" or a plate wearing necromancer. The talent trees and skill rune customization looks like they'll be absolutely insanely cool. Instead of pouring points into Str and Dex to wear some armour and swing a giant sword, you'll be able to make your teleport go further, and perhaps damage enemies when you appear. Suddenly you're Nightcrawler! Or to include another damage type or effect to a spell, or combine skills for crazy abilities.
If anything, they've removed one level of customization that was really just the domain of the crazies and the math whores, and replaced it with a system of a different nature that could be absurdly customizable and lead to piles of playstyle changes.
So while your Sorceress in D2 could run around with a giant sword, your Wizard in D3 can teleport into a group of enemies and they just die, or something.
How cool is that?
Note: that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there'll be plenty of incredible combinations of runes and talents that'll make for just as many varieties of each class (if not moreso) than we had back when we could choose to go to X Str for ____ or X+12 Str for __________.
Sigh... What I mean is: With stats you still had the chance to make whatever skill choice you wanted. On top of that you basically had the chance to wear whatever armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted. So removing stats (and thus removing the ability to wear any of the armor/weapon/shield/etc that you wanted) basically removes a lot of the customization that I loved about D2.
Do you see what I mean, at least?
Black Desert: Family Name: Foolery. Characters: Tome & Beerserk.
(Retired) GW2 Characters (Fort Aspenwood): Roy Gee Biv
(Retired) Let's Play: Lone Wolf
The thing is, everything you're talking about sounds EXACTLY like synergies from D2. There's nothing different other than they make putting points into a skill a little more rewarding than "an additional 1% damage increase".
You won't need to share it with alts because you won't need more than one Barb. You can respec his skills at any point.
You could always, y'know, ask any of us for items. We're all friends here right?
A Diablo II melee sorceress actually has a pretty unique playstyle that none of the other classes have (and, notably, can out-damage any caster sorceress. Seriously. Enchant + dual Dreams + Zeal + Mastery melee bonus = O_o dps
However, it only became possible via players picking items not intended for a "caster" character and putting them on a sorceress. I daresay this is what many players are thinking of when they think of 'customization'; all the far-out oddball builds that turn out to be kickass awesome because of some unnoticed gameplay mechanic. Of course, 99% of the time, a wizard wearing plate-mail is just asking for a beating, but if the player knows what s/he's doing, then why not?
Presumably a compromise is possible here; just make customization a goldsink.
But how many of those were viable (at least as equally effective as a class that wasn't trying to fit a round peg into a square hole) and how many of them were simply tests of either superhuman patience or attempting to break something?
Don't get me wrong, I see that there is something in D2 that you (and others) enjoyed and that's being removed and that makes you understandably disappointed. However, beyond your own fun, can you see how the removal of a system that was, for the vast majority of players and builds (if I might assume a bit) mostly a non-issue? And how focusing on the new type of customization might be better for the game as a whole, allowing for actual customization rather than an effort in math manipulation and gear plotting?
But synergies were inherant to the skills themselves. No effort was made on the player's behalf aside from "do I want to max this skill, or can I get away with a few points or just one in it?", whereas with the rune system for skills, you'll be able to adjust how a skill works at its very core.
Rather than "I put x points in Static Field so I get Y effect", you'll potentially have Rune A and Rune B with Skill C which make for OMG, and then you swap in Rune D for Rune A and ZOMG, and then Boss ____ is super awesome and you get a Rune G and FUCK ME THAT'S RECOCKULOUS!.
So what I'm saying is, the whole thing would have to be designed so that your strength-buffed wizard would have support from the actual design of the game so that he is indeed kickass. But that's not the case. Instead, it's, "Ha, check out my 150 strength wizard guys! Let's go k- I'm dead.
Ahhhh! So much to respond to, but I'm going to get fired from work if I continue to sit on my ass and do nothing all day. I am not ducking out of this conversation because I can't answer... I am ducking out because of work. :P (Sorry to leave you guys hanging... And I hope I don't sound hostile anyone. I don't care how you feel about the game. If you hated stats that's cool. If you like the idea of respecs, that's cool too)
I'm just curious, are runes dropped or can you purchase them?
It was mainly for fun and to enjoy myself. I don't take my D2ing so seriously. If I can make it through normal and parts of Nightmare I consider a build I make up as "good". I don't have the patience for Hell, even with a decked out Sorc.
e: Which is why I kept coming back to D2. I'd sit around, grind for a bit, find a good sword and decide who would be the most fun using the sword. Usually necros or sorcs because it's taboo to see them holding it.
Aye, I don't take it seriously, but I would like to have some level of success when I play it.
I think removing customizable stats helps the possibility of item customization. In DII, there was no real way to use stat points to significantly increase your damage output, so 99% of all characters just dumped everything they could in vitality and called it a day. My personal theory is that this was due to the sheer amount of points that a character was given to play with- making strength or dexterity too significant would make the option to dump so many points there too powerful to balance against.
In DIII, they're making an effort to ensure that everyone's damage is dependent upon their gear, casters included. I'm not sure how much of this will depend on stats, but in the least, it's now more feasible for the amounts of stats you get from your gear to have a greater effect on your character, since there are so many fewer points available for min-maxing.
This, of course, is all besides their stated reasons for the change, which were to make it less possible to cripple your character with seemingly logical choices.
Though the news of BoE, as inevitable as it is, is still rather disheartening to me personally.
+1
Diablo II could have been so much better and still retain customizability. The problem was that the effects and importance of stats were so atrociously unbalanced. People honestly don't min-max that much, but not sinking as many points as possible in Vitality meant that your character would be simply incapable in Hell. So people do it.
Think about it this way. Strength in Diablo II allowed you to wear heavier armors; putting points in Strength would entail not putting points in Vitality, so your health would be a little less. So the defence bonus from heavier armors should be enough to compensate for this! Crap, how is this a difficult idea to implement?
Lvl 85 is starter sets?