I really hope they don't get rid of them. They're essential for that slot machine feeling of picking up an item and it could potentially be awesome, or potentially be friggin' useless.. only until you identify it do you get the satisfaction of knowing. This satisfaction wouldn't be there if items popped out of enemies pre-ID'd. You'd miss it if they were gone!
Gamescom 2010 build screenshot, spoilered for hscroll:
Apparently the picture of the glowering barb in the inventory screen is hiding something:
I'm aware of what class I'm playing, I have no idea why I would need a picture of that beside the gear I'm wearing. It seems out of place and just placed there for a filler.
There's something that goes there. Another UI element that was purposefully hidden.
Those arent screens from the build they got to play, its screens from the artisans announcment stuff. The playable build was the same build as Blizzcon '09. Absolutely nothing new in it.
It's an obviously in-development build, don't freak out too much about it. There are obvious signs of absent polish - the hilarious sans-serif fonts in some of the menus, for instance. And the shoddy shadows on the cart.
But that aside. Why , specifically? :P
@ what look like ID scrolls
Everything else looks pretty slick for pre-alpha, although it damn well should. This game has been in development for over half a decade.
Feel free to some more:
I hope that, at least, we can learn the spell (even at some goldsink cost) so we don't have to keep lugging scrolls of ID around. Or if we can buy and stack ten thousand of them at once, that'll work too...
Jay Wilson revealed this item during an interview at Gamescom, 2010. His quote was short and to the point, and has not yet been elaborated upon.
"We’ve also added a Scroll of Wealth that allows you to sell items right on location."
So, new scroll to replace the removed Scroll of Town Portal.
On a side note, I rather fancy the idea of adding hordes and hordes of scrolls that grant single-use-only spells or temporary buffs, but it's perhaps not quite Diabloish to do so.
The RMB skill looks like "face punch". Why you would do that when you have swords, axes, etc.? Strangely, I still want to try it. Especially if I could rename it "bitch slap".
Those arent screens from the build they got to play, its screens from the artisans announcment stuff. The playable build was the same build as Blizzcon '09. Absolutely nothing new in it.
Oh, okay. That's disappointing... well, screenshots are nice, I guess.
One thing I never really understood about D2 was the ladder system and seasons. Can someone explain that for me?
There's the realms, right, you've got characters on the realm. As long as you keep logging into them every 3 months, they're permanent; characters from back when Diablo II was first released will still be there.
This means that the in-game economy changes over time, many players will have vast hoards of gear accumulated from past play. So to reproduce the everyone-is-level-one environment of the initial release and to encourage some element of competition, there's a parallel world on each realm that runs separately - you can't moved items or characters between them. This is the Ladder. Every now and then Blizzard moves all characters on the Ladder off it, to join their older brethren; this means that Ladder resets back to everyone starting from scratch again. This is generally timed to coincide with patches, too.
This helpfully also restricts the buggy items from past patches to non-ladder; for a variety of reasons Diablo II's engine makes it difficult to detect items which should be impossible to acquire.
On a side note, I rather fancy the idea of adding hordes and hordes of scrolls that grant single-use-only spells or temporary buffs, but it's perhaps not quite Diabloish to do so.
They had scrolls for all the spells in the first game. There was even one spell (apocalypse) that you couldn't ever learn, it only came on on scrolls and staves.
I'm not sure how much it would really add to the game, though. I guess spell charges on items would be more interesting if some spells were only available that way.
Huh, for some reason I thought the Diablo I scrolls allowed you to learn the spells, not cast them once. Confused them with spellbooks, those didn't appear at all in II.
It'd only really add to the game if the spells had some unusual effects, I suppose, and dropped readily enough to discourage hoarding for pvp.
ronya on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
It's really bugging me that the item fonts aren't the Diablo font like everything else in the UI.
Henroid on
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
And you just KNOW the DPS will be dead wrong and totally useless anyway - they couldn't even manage to take the base damage and properly boost it with different skills to display accurate single hit damage in D2. They called in the Lying Character Screen for a reason.
And you just KNOW the DPS will be dead wrong and totally useless anyway - they couldn't even manage to take the base damage and properly boost it with different skills to display accurate single hit damage in D2. They called in the Lying Character Screen for a reason.
It really depends on how weapon damage works, I guess; with Diablo II's proliferation of interacting attacker and defender affixes between gear and skills, it got very complicated very fast. How do you calculate how much DPS 15% Chance to Cast Level 15 Frozen Orb on Striking contributes? Enemies have cold resistance, your gear might have reductions to enemy cold resistance, AR/DR/blocking has to be considered, Frozen Orb hits enemies irregularly, etc.
We don't know enough about Diablo III's model to make informed guesses yet, I suspect.
I like ID scrolls. They help to prolong the excitement of finding a new item - you can see that it's rare at first glance but not until you bring it into your inventory and identify it can you tell if it's actually good or not. Without that you might see it on the ground and know instantly from the prefix/suffix that it's not what you want.
It really depends on how weapon damage works, I guess; with Diablo II's proliferation of interacting attacker and defender affixes between gear and skills, it got very complicated very fast. How do you calculate how much DPS 15% Chance to Cast Level 15 Frozen Orb on Striking contributes? Enemies have cold resistance, your gear might have reductions to enemy cold resistance, AR/DR/blocking has to be considered, Frozen Orb hits enemies irregularly, etc.
We don't know enough about Diablo III's model to make informed guesses yet, I suspect.
Yeah, there's a lot of shit the DPS calc would have to know. For example, an off-the-top-of-my head list for D2: Is +damage boosted by that skill in this patch? What about off weapon? Is it different for +max or +min? Chance to hit? What's the animation breakpoint for this weapon and skill combo? Does that accurately reflect IAS boosts from other gear or skills? What's the Crushing Blow chance, and how large is the life pool of the enemy you're using it on? Etc.
DPS is easy to calculate in some games (weapon does this much hurt, swings this many times per second). Diablo, at least Diablo 2, is not one of those games. And unless they REALLY dumb down the range of gear options, I kind of doubt that will be changing.
I really hope they don't get rid of them. They're essential for that slot machine feeling of picking up an item and it could potentially be awesome, or potentially be friggin' useless.. only until you identify it do you get the satisfaction of knowing. This satisfaction wouldn't be there if items popped out of enemies pre-ID'd. You'd miss it if they were gone!
First of all, I would never miss that. Second, they could just have the items not be ID'd until you picked them up. The effect is the same, but you're spared of a bunch of pointless clicks that were never a meaningful decision and arbitrary maintenance activities (rebuying scrolls). Oh, and you get your full inventory space.
I like ID scrolls. They help to prolong the excitement of finding a new item - you can see that it's rare at first glance but not until you bring it into your inventory and identify it can you tell if it's actually good or not. Without that you might see it on the ground and know instantly from the prefix/suffix that it's not what you want.
You don't need ID scrolls to do that. You just need to know simple things about not designing games with tedious and uninteresting mechanics.
I really hope they don't get rid of them. They're essential for that slot machine feeling of picking up an item and it could potentially be awesome, or potentially be friggin' useless.. only until you identify it do you get the satisfaction of knowing. This satisfaction wouldn't be there if items popped out of enemies pre-ID'd. You'd miss it if they were gone!
First of all, I would never miss that. Second, they could just have the items not be ID'd until you picked them up. The effect is the same, but you're spared of a bunch of pointless clicks that were never a meaningful decision and arbitrary maintenance activities (rebuying scrolls).
I like ID scrolls. They help to prolong the excitement of finding a new item - you can see that it's rare at first glance but not until you bring it into your inventory and identify it can you tell if it's actually good or not. Without that you might see it on the ground and know instantly from the prefix/suffix that it's not what you want.
You don't need ID scrolls to do that. You just need to know simple things about not designing games with tedious and uninteresting mechanics.
You hate everything don't you, forty?
I agree with everyone else. ID scrolls are awesome and should stay.
I really hope they don't get rid of them. They're essential for that slot machine feeling of picking up an item and it could potentially be awesome, or potentially be friggin' useless.. only until you identify it do you get the satisfaction of knowing. This satisfaction wouldn't be there if items popped out of enemies pre-ID'd. You'd miss it if they were gone!
First of all, I would never miss that. Second, they could just have the items not be ID'd until you picked them up. The effect is the same, but you're spared of a bunch of pointless clicks that were never a meaningful decision and arbitrary maintenance activities (rebuying scrolls).
I like ID scrolls. They help to prolong the excitement of finding a new item - you can see that it's rare at first glance but not until you bring it into your inventory and identify it can you tell if it's actually good or not. Without that you might see it on the ground and know instantly from the prefix/suffix that it's not what you want.
You don't need ID scrolls to do that. You just need to know simple things about not designing games with tedious and uninteresting mechanics.
You hate everything don't you, forty?
I agree with everyone else. ID scrolls are awesome and should stay.
Nope. I just hate tedious things that aren't well designed.
Yeah, the real problem was the potions and arrows and keys and shit - sell that common every day crap in the stores. Even the shittiest lvl 3 magic sword is at least a magic sword, why the hell do I need to have a KEY drop in the middle of the wilderness?
For that matter, why does 'a key' open anything with a lock? Drop the damn key - the fucking box is guarded by legions of demons, your 50 gold is as safe as it's gonna get.
Yes, keys were yet another pointless annoyance mechanic in D2. Just another reason the people wanting D3 to be just like D2 but with new graphics/characters are not allowed to have opinions anymore.
I wouldn't mind keys at all of they were super extremely rare and opened high level treasure chests full of good loot and cash. It would mean you could assign a value to keys and trade them for the chance of good random loot (and the chance to open a box full of pretties). But when you drop 30 keys every 5 minutes and they open up a box that 98% of the time has a non magical item and like 12 gold, they become pointless.
Apparently dismantling gives you crafting ingredients.
I could swear one of the articles mentioned that dismantling ("disenchanting") gave a bit of money too. Not as much as selling, but more than 0, at least some of the time.
And personally I hated keys. I always kept a stack on me just in case, but most of the chests contained pure shit. They'd drop something reasonably nice just often enough to keep me wasting a slot or two on them, but rarely enough that it was kind of annoying. ID scrolls I'm good either way with; I wouldn't mind if they were gone, but at long as the new tome has a reasonable number of them (20 was okay, 25-50 would've been appreciated) I can see them as a fine goldsink (balanced for D3 of course, I'm aware they're nothing of the sort except very early in D2).
Now, having varying qualities of key and varying qualities of chest (that could be picked up) could be neat. Or perhaps a keyring (similar to the one WoW has) that allows you to stockpile keys until you find them. But at the same time, I always hated finding a chest when I didn't have a key, knowing that I should go buy or pick one up, and that at the same time the chest probably contained garbage.
I'd like chests to drop quality stuff, but if they go with keys, I hope they're not too hard to come by. Knowing that good stuff is within could make coming across one very frustrating, especially if the lack of town portal scrolls means that popping back to town isn't quite as simple/straightforward.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Maybe forty just forgot to buy scrolls one too many times.
Personally I enjoy clicking on the scrolls and then on the item. I don't want to go into it, but I do not think it is bad game design.
Yeah, picking it up is NOT the same thing. Picking up an unID'ed item, then clicking on the scroll, then clicking on the item feels almost like playing a slot machine. You put the coin in, and hope something good comes out.
Doesn't mean keys won't make their way back in if someone can give them a convincing argument for them that strengthens the content and playability of the game instead of weakening it.
Squabman on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Wait, so I'm not the only one who's confused about how to calculate what weapon does how much damage? Well, that makes me feel less dumb.
Fencingsax on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
I'm a little confused at the range of attack speed increase. And by that I mean that there's a range of it, like you can attack from this much faster to this much faster. That mean every individual swing is its own speed roll?
I'm a little confused at the range of attack speed increase. And by that I mean that there's a range of it, like you can attack from this much faster to this much faster. That mean every individual swing is its own speed roll?
If you're talking about the range thats on the wep in that screen a few pages back, thats the crafting screen, not whats actually ON the weapon.
That bottom screen shows what will be put on the weapon when you craft it. So it will have a speed that falls somewhere in the range listed. See how it also says +2 random properties?
Keys are pretty horrible, coming across a chest and not being able to open it is never fun.
Zek on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
Oh, hurr durr on my part.
I'm glad the attack speeds are numbers though. The "Fast attack speed, normal attack speed" stuff in Diablo 2 was fucking infuriating when the entire game is intense number crunching efficiency.
I'm glad the attack speeds are numbers though. The "Fast attack speed, normal attack speed" stuff in Diablo 2 was fucking infuriating when the entire game is intense number crunching efficiency.
Working it out to how many frames an action took made my head melt.
I don't care how fast or natural it was for the truly hardcore/devout, people started talking about 7 frame blocks and suddenly grey matter was leaking out my ears.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
I hope we have awesome random boss names. Death Drinker the Jagged. Puke Lust.
Posts
I really hope they don't get rid of them. They're essential for that slot machine feeling of picking up an item and it could potentially be awesome, or potentially be friggin' useless.. only until you identify it do you get the satisfaction of knowing. This satisfaction wouldn't be there if items popped out of enemies pre-ID'd. You'd miss it if they were gone!
Those arent screens from the build they got to play, its screens from the artisans announcment stuff. The playable build was the same build as Blizzcon '09. Absolutely nothing new in it.
Feel free to
I hope that, at least, we can learn the spell (even at some goldsink cost) so we don't have to keep lugging scrolls of ID around. Or if we can buy and stack ten thousand of them at once, that'll work too...
In other Gamescom 2010 remarks:
So, new scroll to replace the removed Scroll of Town Portal.
On a side note, I rather fancy the idea of adding hordes and hordes of scrolls that grant single-use-only spells or temporary buffs, but it's perhaps not quite Diabloish to do so.
If I remember correctly, thats the icon for Bash.
Edit: Ronya you might want to check the OP.
Oh, okay. That's disappointing... well, screenshots are nice, I guess.
There's the realms, right, you've got characters on the realm. As long as you keep logging into them every 3 months, they're permanent; characters from back when Diablo II was first released will still be there.
This means that the in-game economy changes over time, many players will have vast hoards of gear accumulated from past play. So to reproduce the everyone-is-level-one environment of the initial release and to encourage some element of competition, there's a parallel world on each realm that runs separately - you can't moved items or characters between them. This is the Ladder. Every now and then Blizzard moves all characters on the Ladder off it, to join their older brethren; this means that Ladder resets back to everyone starting from scratch again. This is generally timed to coincide with patches, too.
This helpfully also restricts the buggy items from past patches to non-ladder; for a variety of reasons Diablo II's engine makes it difficult to detect items which should be impossible to acquire.
They had scrolls for all the spells in the first game. There was even one spell (apocalypse) that you couldn't ever learn, it only came on on scrolls and staves.
I'm not sure how much it would really add to the game, though. I guess spell charges on items would be more interesting if some spells were only available that way.
It'd only really add to the game if the spells had some unusual effects, I suppose, and dropped readily enough to discourage hoarding for pvp.
I didn't notice it until you said something, but now that you did . . .
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
I ruin all things.
:?:
Hell, even the UI looks alike with its confusing dps and shit. Are decimals really that necessary?
I expect they'll clean up the UI. It's a balance between avoiding UI clutter and allowing players to dig out the details when they want to, really.
Its accurate in WoW.
And every other game since D2.
It really depends on how weapon damage works, I guess; with Diablo II's proliferation of interacting attacker and defender affixes between gear and skills, it got very complicated very fast. How do you calculate how much DPS 15% Chance to Cast Level 15 Frozen Orb on Striking contributes? Enemies have cold resistance, your gear might have reductions to enemy cold resistance, AR/DR/blocking has to be considered, Frozen Orb hits enemies irregularly, etc.
We don't know enough about Diablo III's model to make informed guesses yet, I suspect.
Yeah, there's a lot of shit the DPS calc would have to know. For example, an off-the-top-of-my head list for D2: Is +damage boosted by that skill in this patch? What about off weapon? Is it different for +max or +min? Chance to hit? What's the animation breakpoint for this weapon and skill combo? Does that accurately reflect IAS boosts from other gear or skills? What's the Crushing Blow chance, and how large is the life pool of the enemy you're using it on? Etc.
DPS is easy to calculate in some games (weapon does this much hurt, swings this many times per second). Diablo, at least Diablo 2, is not one of those games. And unless they REALLY dumb down the range of gear options, I kind of doubt that will be changing.
You don't need ID scrolls to do that. You just need to know simple things about not designing games with tedious and uninteresting mechanics.
You hate everything don't you, forty?
I agree with everyone else. ID scrolls are awesome and should stay.
And they're not.
I wouldn't mind keys at all of they were super extremely rare and opened high level treasure chests full of good loot and cash. It would mean you could assign a value to keys and trade them for the chance of good random loot (and the chance to open a box full of pretties). But when you drop 30 keys every 5 minutes and they open up a box that 98% of the time has a non magical item and like 12 gold, they become pointless.
I could swear one of the articles mentioned that dismantling ("disenchanting") gave a bit of money too. Not as much as selling, but more than 0, at least some of the time.
And personally I hated keys. I always kept a stack on me just in case, but most of the chests contained pure shit. They'd drop something reasonably nice just often enough to keep me wasting a slot or two on them, but rarely enough that it was kind of annoying. ID scrolls I'm good either way with; I wouldn't mind if they were gone, but at long as the new tome has a reasonable number of them (20 was okay, 25-50 would've been appreciated) I can see them as a fine goldsink (balanced for D3 of course, I'm aware they're nothing of the sort except very early in D2).
Now, having varying qualities of key and varying qualities of chest (that could be picked up) could be neat. Or perhaps a keyring (similar to the one WoW has) that allows you to stockpile keys until you find them. But at the same time, I always hated finding a chest when I didn't have a key, knowing that I should go buy or pick one up, and that at the same time the chest probably contained garbage.
I'd like chests to drop quality stuff, but if they go with keys, I hope they're not too hard to come by. Knowing that good stuff is within could make coming across one very frustrating, especially if the lack of town portal scrolls means that popping back to town isn't quite as simple/straightforward.
Personally I enjoy clicking on the scrolls and then on the item. I don't want to go into it, but I do not think it is bad game design.
Yeah, picking it up is NOT the same thing. Picking up an unID'ed item, then clicking on the scroll, then clicking on the item feels almost like playing a slot machine. You put the coin in, and hope something good comes out.
Ah, thank you. I did in fact miss that.
Just got all excited to discuss something else, and it's again an academic discussion that's already resolved.
If you're talking about the range thats on the wep in that screen a few pages back, thats the crafting screen, not whats actually ON the weapon.
That bottom screen shows what will be put on the weapon when you craft it. So it will have a speed that falls somewhere in the range listed. See how it also says +2 random properties?
I'm glad the attack speeds are numbers though. The "Fast attack speed, normal attack speed" stuff in Diablo 2 was fucking infuriating when the entire game is intense number crunching efficiency.
Working it out to how many frames an action took made my head melt.
I don't care how fast or natural it was for the truly hardcore/devout, people started talking about 7 frame blocks and suddenly grey matter was leaking out my ears.