Hey, just got myself a shiny new gaming laptop, any of you guys know an area where I can completely download the WoW client online instead of busting out any disks?
I would assume to avoid the scenario you'd have pre-TBC where the poopsockiest raiders not only had the best PvE gear, but the best PvP gear as well, and could just run roughshod over everyone else.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
See, I think it'd be pretty nice if PvPers could PvE and PvEers could PvP.
Of course, you may say I'm a dreamer.
That would be great.
The items would have to have like, different stats in arenas and in instances though. I mean, you only want enough HP to survive incidental AoEs and stuff as DPS in a raid, for example, but, you obviously want more HP than that for an arena so, I'm not entirely sure how they would pull it off. I guess they could just give all PvE items oodles of stamina.
Why not go the way of the future Defense stat? Have resilience come from talents?
Thus, you'd have easily distinguishable pvp/pve specs. Sure it'd a passive talent, but so's defense when it changes...
Eh what? This doesn't sound like a good plan to me at all, I'd rather not have one of my three trees sacrificed to PvP, or, only have one tree open to me if I'd like to PvP.
Well i'd prefer to think of it more in terms of a single talent or, failing that; a part of this new path of the titans thing.
Think about this; they're going to be eliminating the tanking stat and turning it into one talent ala; Survival of the Fittest. This means that ALL tanks are going to have to waste (although i don't consider it a waste) at least one talent point in order to even think of tanking. Same deal with healers and this 'Meditation-like talent' to support the spirit change.
We all spend talent points to do things in WoW. Why should PvP be any different? Having a 'PvP button' will easily denote someone as PvP as opposed to PvE.
Addendum; The talents in question would surely have to be at the top of the trees so you spend as little as possible if all you want is that one talent.
Euphoriac on
0
GumpyThere is alwaysa greater powerRegistered Userregular
Couldnt they just get rid of resilience and instead make player skills do less damage to players than to mobs? I never really got why they didn't do that instead...
This increases survivability for everyone equally instead of having some poeple with max resil and others with nothing..
Back when ranks were in effect and getting decent PvP gear meant 24/7 grinding in battlegrounds people would Raid so that they would have decent gear for PvP.
I know crazy idea.
When TBC came around and the top pvp gear was much easier to aquire that situation reversed and raiders would PvP for weapons so that they would have a leg up while raiding.
And during both of those periods many people whined.
A Lot
Getting rid of resilience would lead to whining as well. And then we would see people calling for the nerfing of damage in PvP. And then we would see more whining and people begging for Blizzard to do something to fix PvP.
Wait, Wrath came on a DVD with TBC and vanilla? I hope that means Cataclysm will come with the previous stuff as well, since that would save me quite a bit of grief.
My copy of Wrath didn't, as far as I know. I have to install the first two games before I can install the third.
You guys solve this? When I came back I just installed the WoTLK files and it installed Vanilla and BC. This was with the download though. Basically I went to the download skipped straight to WoTLK download downloaded a 6 gb installer and it put everything I needed on. So It seems that it is contained in the files, I think the requirement notice the post involve license.
Couldnt they just get rid of resilience and instead make player skills do less damage to players than to mobs? I never really got why they didn't do that instead...
This increases survivability for everyone equally instead of having some poeple with max resil and others with nothing..
One of the major purposes of resilience is to make PvP and PvE gear separate, your idea entirely negates this purpose.
One of the big problems in Vanilla was a lot of pvp was about one or two shotting your opponent. Well, I remember mages and warriors like to bitch about getting one/two shotted by warriors and mages, respectively.
(Hmm...)
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Burst damage is an issue now, but in Vanilla it was literally about one-shotting people - you press one attack button and it deals enough damage to kill the other guy instantly. This is not hyperbole or exaggeration - this was a ludicrously common tactic in PVP back then, and is pretty much the entire reason why gear has so much stamina on it now and why they put in resilience in the first place.
Keep in mind: Back then "A lot of health" was maybe 5k or so. The average player had maybe 2-3k HP and an undergeared person might have about 1000. Attacks dealing that much damage with the right critdamage modifiers/cooldowns/trinkets was extremely common, back in the days when having spellpower-increasing trinkets was freakishly rare and Mortal Strike hit for 140% weapon damage.
I've definitely killed people in the span of a single global cooldown on my lock in arenas in patch before this one. I haven't really pvped since the current patch though.
Most of the people I exploded like that we admittedly wearing PvE gear, but it's not like my lock has anywhere near top of the line PvP gear either.
Yes, but do you do this on a regular basis? Is this something that you gear and plan for and execute numerous times in the span of a single battleground and expect to work regularly?
Because it was at 60. I mean shit, where do you think "Three-minute mages" came from? It was an entire spec speficially designed around being able to one-shot people.
Not battlegrounds, arena. I think Isle of Conquest is the only BG where I actually fight other Horde players instead of beelining to cap the flag/whatever.
I've definitely been 1 or 2 shot'd in arena as a resto with 1100 resilience by DKs and ret pallys.
I've definitely killed people in the span of a single global cooldown on my lock in arenas in patch before this one. I haven't really pvped since the current patch though.
PVP gear makes a big difference here though. I can pretty easily tell how geared someone is.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Because it was at 60. I mean shit, where do you think "Three-minute mages" came from? It was an entire spec speficially designed around being able to one-shot people.
I had a fire reflector at 60. I would go hunting for 3 minute mages and see if I couldn't frustrate them.
3MM were also a 'viable' arena spec back in TBC until people got enough resilience to last through the initial burst.
EDIT: If you are wearing PvE gear to PvP with, then you are going to die in the span of a GCD.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
No, pyroblast, if it crit, was more than enough. We're talking 5k pyroblast crits at level 60.
Also, you're thinking of shadowbolt.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Pvp at 60 was silly. Rogues could stunlock people 100% -> 0% without them ever having the chance to do anything. Everybody died so quickly.
Pvp at 70 was my favorite. Everyone seemed to live a decent amount of time and it felt like you had more control over the outcome.
Pvp at the start of 80 was back to the silliness. People dieing super quickly (not to the level 60 extent, but still pretty quick). I haven't played much since the resilience change, so who knows if that helps.
Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
Naw, it was Shadowbolt or Soulfire, being helped out by Curse of Elements/Shadows and one of vanilla's stupidest design decisions, negative resists.
It's funny how few people realize this, but Conflag was pretty lousy up until it was changed in 3.1.
I needed anime to post. on
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OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Ahh man. I remember Vanilla PVP. Sure, I never could afford an Arcanite Reaper, but I still managed as an MS Warrior. Those were good times.
Prot Warriors - those were HILARIOUS distractions.
Couldnt they just get rid of resilience and instead make player skills do less damage to players than to mobs? I never really got why they didn't do that instead...
This increases survivability for everyone equally instead of having some poeple with max resil and others with nothing..
One of the major purposes of resilience is to make PvP and PvE gear separate, your idea entirely negates this purpose.
I'm of two minds.
On the one hand: Resilience can eat a giant bag of dicks for completely making battlegrounds unfun.
On the other hand: It DOES keep me from dealing with PvPers ever in my day-to-day playing. Anything that lets me avoid them is fine by me.
Posts
edit: Also on Tier 6 armor, so it was introduced around the time of the Black Temple patch.
I'd love for them to re-work things enough on the PvP front to no longer need resilience but, I'm not holding my breath here.
I would assume to avoid the scenario you'd have pre-TBC where the poopsockiest raiders not only had the best PvE gear, but the best PvP gear as well, and could just run roughshod over everyone else.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
So the raiding carebears/arena scrubs don't get my gear just by doing their easy whatever instead of my hard so forth.
Because pve gear sucks at times for pvp
Of course, you may say I'm a dreamer.
That would be great.
The items would have to have like, different stats in arenas and in instances though. I mean, you only want enough HP to survive incidental AoEs and stuff as DPS in a raid, for example, but, you obviously want more HP than that for an arena so, I'm not entirely sure how they would pull it off. I guess they could just give all PvE items oodles of stamina.
The problem right now is that they're trying to balance two different games that happen to share a lot of assets.
Thus, you'd have easily distinguishable pvp/pve specs. Sure it'd a passive talent, but so's defense when it changes...
Eh what? This doesn't sound like a good plan to me at all, I'd rather not have one of my three trees sacrificed to PvP, or, only have one tree open to me if I'd like to PvP.
Think about this; they're going to be eliminating the tanking stat and turning it into one talent ala; Survival of the Fittest. This means that ALL tanks are going to have to waste (although i don't consider it a waste) at least one talent point in order to even think of tanking. Same deal with healers and this 'Meditation-like talent' to support the spirit change.
We all spend talent points to do things in WoW. Why should PvP be any different? Having a 'PvP button' will easily denote someone as PvP as opposed to PvE.
Addendum; The talents in question would surely have to be at the top of the trees so you spend as little as possible if all you want is that one talent.
So people who PVP get to play with people who want to PVP and not people who are grinding equipment for PVE and visa versa
This increases survivability for everyone equally instead of having some poeple with max resil and others with nothing..
I know crazy idea.
When TBC came around and the top pvp gear was much easier to aquire that situation reversed and raiders would PvP for weapons so that they would have a leg up while raiding.
And during both of those periods many people whined.
A Lot
Getting rid of resilience would lead to whining as well. And then we would see people calling for the nerfing of damage in PvP. And then we would see more whining and people begging for Blizzard to do something to fix PvP.
It is a vicious cycle
You guys solve this? When I came back I just installed the WoTLK files and it installed Vanilla and BC. This was with the download though. Basically I went to the download skipped straight to WoTLK download downloaded a 6 gb installer and it put everything I needed on. So It seems that it is contained in the files, I think the requirement notice the post involve license.
buy warhams
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
One of the major purposes of resilience is to make PvP and PvE gear separate, your idea entirely negates this purpose.
(Hmm...)
Keep in mind: Back then "A lot of health" was maybe 5k or so. The average player had maybe 2-3k HP and an undergeared person might have about 1000. Attacks dealing that much damage with the right critdamage modifiers/cooldowns/trinkets was extremely common, back in the days when having spellpower-increasing trinkets was freakishly rare and Mortal Strike hit for 140% weapon damage.
Most of the people I exploded like that we admittedly wearing PvE gear, but it's not like my lock has anywhere near top of the line PvP gear either.
Because it was at 60. I mean shit, where do you think "Three-minute mages" came from? It was an entire spec speficially designed around being able to one-shot people.
I've definitely been 1 or 2 shot'd in arena as a resto with 1100 resilience by DKs and ret pallys.
PVP gear makes a big difference here though. I can pretty easily tell how geared someone is.
I had a fire reflector at 60. I would go hunting for 3 minute mages and see if I couldn't frustrate them.
3MM were also a 'viable' arena spec back in TBC until people got enough resilience to last through the initial burst.
EDIT: If you are wearing PvE gear to PvP with, then you are going to die in the span of a GCD.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
No, pyroblast, if it crit, was more than enough. We're talking 5k pyroblast crits at level 60.
Also, you're thinking of shadowbolt.
Pvp at 70 was my favorite. Everyone seemed to live a decent amount of time and it felt like you had more control over the outcome.
Pvp at the start of 80 was back to the silliness. People dieing super quickly (not to the level 60 extent, but still pretty quick). I haven't played much since the resilience change, so who knows if that helps.
If a mage blinked toward you, you busted out a 2k raptor strike crit with Lok'delar.
Naw, it was Shadowbolt or Soulfire, being helped out by Curse of Elements/Shadows and one of vanilla's stupidest design decisions, negative resists.
It's funny how few people realize this, but Conflag was pretty lousy up until it was changed in 3.1.
Prot Warriors - those were HILARIOUS distractions.
On the one hand: Resilience can eat a giant bag of dicks for completely making battlegrounds unfun.
On the other hand: It DOES keep me from dealing with PvPers ever in my day-to-day playing. Anything that lets me avoid them is fine by me.