Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
Naw, it was Shadowbolt or Soulfire, being helped out by Curse of Elements/Shadows and one of vanilla's stupidest design decisions, negative resists.
It's funny how few people realize this, but Conflag was pretty lousy up until it was changed in 3.1.
Searing pain could almost do it if you got really lucky - negative resists could do absolutely terrible things, I got more than a few twoshots with searing pain hiding in bushes (no "I'm over here" projectile trail leading back to me). I suppose conflag could have done it as bad as it was, if immolate and conflag both got supercrits.
Yes, but do you do this on a regular basis? Is this something that you gear and plan for and execute numerous times in the span of a single battleground and expect to work regularly?
Because it was at 60. I mean shit, where do you think "Three-minute mages" came from? It was an entire spec speficially designed around being able to one-shot people.
Yup, it's pretty much was the goal of the build. And if not to kill them in the single global cooldown, to kill them before they could escape the lockdown from my twos partner, a protection paladin. The strategy was basically to wait until my chaosbolt/conflag combo both crit, or got the enemy low enough. Then the paladin would silence them with his shield (we'd go after the healer first) while I continued to DPS, throw in a shadowfury,pally stun or deathcoil if necessary.
I borrowed my friend's 80 to mine Winterspring for Thorium (stupid mats needed for leveling BS etc. etc.) I have Gathermate. I did a full cycle of Winterspring, including the camps of Rich Thorium, and only found one frigging node.
Fuck this to hell, seriously. 4 ore out of the 250 needed.
Couldnt they just get rid of resilience and instead make player skills do less damage to players than to mobs? I never really got why they didn't do that instead...
This increases survivability for everyone equally instead of having some poeple with max resil and others with nothing..
One of the major purposes of resilience is to make PvP and PvE gear separate, your idea entirely negates this purpose.
I'm of two minds.
On the one hand: Resilience can eat a giant bag of dicks for completely making battlegrounds unfun.
On the other hand: It DOES keep me from dealing with PvPers ever in my day-to-day playing. Anything that lets me avoid them is fine by me.
So, basically, you're mad that because of item budget issues, you can't compete in PVP when you want to do PVP, but you're happy that PVPers can't do PVE well because their gear has all that budget wasted on resilience?
I still find battlegrounds pretty fun in just mediocre PVP gear.
Mouschi on
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
0
BloodshedI smoke my friendsDown to the FilterRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
With a little teamwork, PvP can be fun in crappy 5-Man PvE gear.
If you walk into a BG looking to have a little fun, you can usually succeed at this.
If you walk in wearing PvE gear with the expectation of being "uber" you will probably end up getting your ass handed to you.
But then again, I guess that depends heavily on your definition of "fun".
Finally got my warbear. Everything went real smooth until Org where we wiped at 771k on Thrall because of Horde piling in. So we wait like 15 minutes maybe a little less then all res at the same time in his room and kill him. His frog CC is balls. I came 2nd on dps on the Silvermoon boss with a full raid so I was happy about that.
It was weird even though there was 40 of us it still seemed to take a quite a few minutes to down their 5mil hp. I wonder how long it took those raids that went there when they were 70.
JJ on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Probably less time...the only people who were able to do it at 70 were those with a kickass Sunwell-geared tank and a bunch of skilled healers because those mobs would easily twoshot a sunwell tank, near oneshot if they crit.
Well, would the bosses have been counted as only 3 levels higher or 13 levels higher? DPS would go to complete shit from that. Maybe I'm exaggerating time since I rarely raid and usually just do heroics.
JJ on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
IIRC they are boss mobs so they are 3 levels higher for the purposes of calculations regardless of what level you are.
The reason I say it would have been faster is that Sunwell geared raiders, skilled ones, raiding city bosses in 3.0 would have been doing 2.5-3k dps EASILY. Your average trade channel pug retard can barely manage 2k on a good day at level 80.
Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
No, pyroblast, if it crit, was more than enough. We're talking 5k pyroblast crits at level 60.
Also, you're thinking of shadowbolt.
Not shadow bolt. The fire spell that consumes the dot on the target and hits for a crazy high amount of damage. You could do more damage than a pyroblast with it.
Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
No, pyroblast, if it crit, was more than enough. We're talking 5k pyroblast crits at level 60.
Also, you're thinking of shadowbolt.
Not shadow bolt. The fire spell that consumes the dot on the target and hits for a crazy high amount of damage. You could do more damage than a pyroblast with it.
Are you sure? Destro didn't have the fire talents it had now, whereas affliction and destruction both had talents enhancing the damage of shadow abilities. Additionally, conflag didn't work the same way back then.
I remember much bitching about 5k shadowbolts.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
No, pyroblast, if it crit, was more than enough. We're talking 5k pyroblast crits at level 60.
Also, you're thinking of shadowbolt.
Not shadow bolt. The fire spell that consumes the dot on the target and hits for a crazy high amount of damage. You could do more damage than a pyroblast with it.
Are you sure? Destro didn't have the fire talents it had now, whereas affliction and destruction both had talents enhancing the damage of shadow abilities. Additionally, conflag didn't work the same way back then.
I remember much bitching about 5k shadowbolts.
I've been hit by a one shotting conflag by a guy in my old guild. I don't remember ever being one shotted with pyro. Though techincally the conflag isn't a one shot, since the immolate does several hundred damage.
I could be wrong about it being conflag, after all, its been 4 years. But it definitely was a fire attack, not shadow.
I'm thinking of find a nice high pop server and starting over on there.
The server all my characters are on has all of 100 people on it, I swear. Or at least it feels that way.
IIRC they are boss mobs so they are 3 levels higher for the purposes of calculations regardless of what level you are.
The reason I say it would have been faster is that Sunwell geared raiders, skilled ones, raiding city bosses in 3.0 would have been doing 2.5-3k dps EASILY. Your average trade channel pug retard can barely manage 2k on a good day at level 80.
Ah, right. So actually the guards would be tougher to kill in comparison to their relatively low hitponts.
Ah, right. So actually the guards would be tougher to kill in comparison to their relatively low hitponts.
If I remember correctly, though, the bosses were able to crush even though the level difference was changed to +4 with 3.0. It seemed like there was a secondary system in play, where they had a minimum level (probably 75) in addition to being a boss.
I wish Blizzard would just consolidate all the Marks of Honor from Battlegrounds into just one "Mark of Honor."
They're obviously not using them for item currency anymore (you know what you can buy with SotA tokens? NOTHING), so the only use anyone has for them is turning in one of each for the honor quest and turning in 30 AB/AV/WSG for the black war mounts.
So I say consolidate them all into one token and raise the requirements on those things slightly (ie. 10 for quest, 100 for mount) so that then I can pick a battleground I enjoy.
The only downside I would see would be some battlegrounds possibly being played less, but you still have the daily to help spread people around and you'll get more people in your BG that actually want to play that BG.
Also, while they're at it they need to at least triple the rep gains in WSG and AB.
Edit: In regards to city and raid bosses, raid bosses also have a minimum level. If you somehow brought a level 50 player into Magtheridon's Lair, Magtheridon would still be considered 73 for the purposes of hit calculation to that character, not 53 (and he'd be 83 for a level 80).
Also, patch 3.0 raised the city guards to 75 and the city bosses to minimum of 80+3, so the ones who got the achievement between 3.0 and WotLK's release were fighting guards 5 levels higher and bosses 13 levels higher.
Ah, right. So actually the guards would be tougher to kill in comparison to their relatively low hitponts.
If I remember correctly, though, the bosses were able to crush even though the level difference was changed to +4 with 3.0. It seemed like there was a secondary system in play, where they had a minimum level (probably 75) in addition to being a boss.
Was that it? Well, they definitely hit like trucks. Personally, I thought if alliance didn't meddle and you had healers expecting sunwell style tank damage, you could do it, but neither was true when I tried it. We decided to try again when we were the level we were supposed to be.
I don't think anyone at all killed all the city leaders for the mounts before wotlk on my server, but some people did do it on other servers.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Hilarity: Just destroyed some rogues in duels for fun, the topic of discussion then went to how OP feral druids where. When I pointed out that we were both blowing all our cooldowns and I was still barely pulling off a win they just said it was luck / gear. That's when I started busting out world of roguecraft quotes.
Mages couldn't one shot decently geared players, but they could kill them very quickly with a quick succession of spells, such as pyro, fireblast and firewave.
Warlocks, however, could kill anyone in one hit from their spells, pretty sure it was conflag.
No, pyroblast, if it crit, was more than enough. We're talking 5k pyroblast crits at level 60.
Also, you're thinking of shadowbolt.
Not shadow bolt. The fire spell that consumes the dot on the target and hits for a crazy high amount of damage. You could do more damage than a pyroblast with it.
Not in vanilla, you couldn't. It hit for a less than half of what shadowbolt did and had absolutely terrible spellpower scaling after they took its cast time away. Conflag never did crazy numbers until 3.2. Hell, conflag never did respectable numbers until 3.2.
Edit: I assume we're still talking about the negative resist warlock crazy numbers. That was pretty much all shadowbolt and soulfire. Conflag's only real use was soulfire>immolate>conflagrate. From max range, all three would hit at basically the same time. Negative resists basically guaranteed a kill, but even after that was fixed, if any one of the three crit, it would splatter most people. Two crits was death for somebody in tank gear.
Ahh... one of my finest moments in TBC was going into an arena with my insanely skilled shadowpriest buddy, who... immediately got raped by two super-high-geared rogues. I had Gruul level gear.
It took me 10 minutes, but I killed both of them as a feral druid. Best fight evar.
And speaking of vanilla, god being a druid back then was the worst.
Flippy_D on
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited August 2009
Stop making twink threads you buggers.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Newbie question - how are you guys measuring dps? I just look at my melee stats in the character bar and hover the cursor over 'Damage', but I see screenshots of people with their dps showing in other windows. Do I need some kind of addon for a more accurate measurement?
Posts
Searing pain could almost do it if you got really lucky - negative resists could do absolutely terrible things, I got more than a few twoshots with searing pain hiding in bushes (no "I'm over here" projectile trail leading back to me). I suppose conflag could have done it as bad as it was, if immolate and conflag both got supercrits.
Yup, it's pretty much was the goal of the build. And if not to kill them in the single global cooldown, to kill them before they could escape the lockdown from my twos partner, a protection paladin. The strategy was basically to wait until my chaosbolt/conflag combo both crit, or got the enemy low enough. Then the paladin would silence them with his shield (we'd go after the healer first) while I continued to DPS, throw in a shadowfury,pally stun or deathcoil if necessary.
Use Noggenfogger to turn into a skeleton in Trial of Champions... and you stand on the horse during the jousting.
I borrowed my friend's 80 to mine Winterspring for Thorium (stupid mats needed for leveling BS etc. etc.) I have Gathermate. I did a full cycle of Winterspring, including the camps of Rich Thorium, and only found one frigging node.
Fuck this to hell, seriously. 4 ore out of the 250 needed.
So, basically, you're mad that because of item budget issues, you can't compete in PVP when you want to do PVP, but you're happy that PVPers can't do PVE well because their gear has all that budget wasted on resilience?
I still find battlegrounds pretty fun in just mediocre PVP gear.
Gamertag: Cunning Hekate // League of Legends: FeroxPA
If you walk into a BG looking to have a little fun, you can usually succeed at this.
If you walk in wearing PvE gear with the expectation of being "uber" you will probably end up getting your ass handed to you.
But then again, I guess that depends heavily on your definition of "fun".
Battletag: Kain#1658
It was weird even though there was 40 of us it still seemed to take a quite a few minutes to down their 5mil hp. I wonder how long it took those raids that went there when they were 70.
The reason I say it would have been faster is that Sunwell geared raiders, skilled ones, raiding city bosses in 3.0 would have been doing 2.5-3k dps EASILY. Your average trade channel pug retard can barely manage 2k on a good day at level 80.
I one-shotted this same poor troll mage I think three times in a single AV game. Old-school Aimed Shot was absurd.
Not shadow bolt. The fire spell that consumes the dot on the target and hits for a crazy high amount of damage. You could do more damage than a pyroblast with it.
Ever.
Are you sure? Destro didn't have the fire talents it had now, whereas affliction and destruction both had talents enhancing the damage of shadow abilities. Additionally, conflag didn't work the same way back then.
I remember much bitching about 5k shadowbolts.
I've been hit by a one shotting conflag by a guy in my old guild. I don't remember ever being one shotted with pyro. Though techincally the conflag isn't a one shot, since the immolate does several hundred damage.
I could be wrong about it being conflag, after all, its been 4 years. But it definitely was a fire attack, not shadow.
The server all my characters are on has all of 100 people on it, I swear. Or at least it feels that way.
So I guess that means that they're trying to get people to roll on it.
Ah, right. So actually the guards would be tougher to kill in comparison to their relatively low hitponts.
They're obviously not using them for item currency anymore (you know what you can buy with SotA tokens? NOTHING), so the only use anyone has for them is turning in one of each for the honor quest and turning in 30 AB/AV/WSG for the black war mounts.
So I say consolidate them all into one token and raise the requirements on those things slightly (ie. 10 for quest, 100 for mount) so that then I can pick a battleground I enjoy.
The only downside I would see would be some battlegrounds possibly being played less, but you still have the daily to help spread people around and you'll get more people in your BG that actually want to play that BG.
Also, while they're at it they need to at least triple the rep gains in WSG and AB.
Edit: In regards to city and raid bosses, raid bosses also have a minimum level. If you somehow brought a level 50 player into Magtheridon's Lair, Magtheridon would still be considered 73 for the purposes of hit calculation to that character, not 53 (and he'd be 83 for a level 80).
Also, patch 3.0 raised the city guards to 75 and the city bosses to minimum of 80+3, so the ones who got the achievement between 3.0 and WotLK's release were fighting guards 5 levels higher and bosses 13 levels higher.
Was that it? Well, they definitely hit like trucks. Personally, I thought if alliance didn't meddle and you had healers expecting sunwell style tank damage, you could do it, but neither was true when I tried it. We decided to try again when we were the level we were supposed to be.
I don't think anyone at all killed all the city leaders for the mounts before wotlk on my server, but some people did do it on other servers.
Be default, but if you have a spec that has conflag, you also pick up the glyph of conflag so it no longer consumes the immolate.
That doesn't really apply to our discussion, though, seeing as how Glyphs didn't exist.
same as it is for all weapons, 26 expertise for dodges, 55 for parries
Ah, my mistake, got things muddled up.
Not in vanilla, you couldn't. It hit for a less than half of what shadowbolt did and had absolutely terrible spellpower scaling after they took its cast time away. Conflag never did crazy numbers until 3.2. Hell, conflag never did respectable numbers until 3.2.
Edit: I assume we're still talking about the negative resist warlock crazy numbers. That was pretty much all shadowbolt and soulfire. Conflag's only real use was soulfire>immolate>conflagrate. From max range, all three would hit at basically the same time. Negative resists basically guaranteed a kill, but even after that was fixed, if any one of the three crit, it would splatter most people. Two crits was death for somebody in tank gear.
It took me 10 minutes, but I killed both of them as a feral druid. Best fight evar.
And speaking of vanilla, god being a druid back then was the worst.
I always get lumped with the priest boss, and dps that can't do over 1500 dps.