Maybe games companies should look more into developing customisable controllers as everyone seems to have a different idea of what they want.
This would be nice. At least let us switch the D-pad and the left analog stick now. I really hate playing any 360 game, especially a shooter, because I can't get used to the wacky placement. To me it feels completely wrong.
Every game should have customizable controls, there's really no excuse for it. Surely if you can program in 'Type A' and 'Tybe B' control schemes, then you can just let the player decide what they want every button to do?
Maybe games companies should look more into developing customisable controllers as everyone seems to have a different idea of what they want.
This would be nice. At least let us switch the D-pad and the left analog stick now. I really hate playing any 360 game, especially a shooter, because I can't get used to the wacky placement. To me it feels completely wrong.
Every game should have customizable controls, there's really no excuse for it. Surely if you can program in 'Type A' and 'Tybe B' control schemes, then you can just let the player decide what they want every button to do?
I think you misunderstood. He wants to physically swap the positions of the left analog and the d-pad.
Maybe games companies should look more into developing customisable controllers as everyone seems to have a different idea of what they want.
This would be nice. At least let us switch the D-pad and the left analog stick now. I really hate playing any 360 game, especially a shooter, because I can't get used to the wacky placement. To me it feels completely wrong.
Every game should have customizable controls, there's really no excuse for it. Surely if you can program in 'Type A' and 'Tybe B' control schemes, then you can just let the player decide what they want every button to do?
They're talking about Custom Controllers, not custom controls.
Like imagine if you could easily take out the face buttons and put them in place of the right analog stick or something.
It is pure fact that the PlayStation controllers have always been poorly designed. Yes, people like them - because they got used to them at some point in the fifteen fucking years that Sony has been unable to come up with something that had proper ergonomics. Ripoff of SNES design, with extra shoulder buttons slapped on haphazardly. Then two sticks thrown in wherever they could find room. And rumble thrown in to the empty handles. Bam, call it a day. Later on, sure, make those extra shoulders triggers with a bump instead of a curve, that makes a lot of sense.
The dualshock is shit. It's small. The triggers suck. The sticks are not only too loose and inaccurate, but they have poor placement. The dpad being separated hurts your thumb with extended use, and overall, it's just ugly.
This is fact. There are very specific things you can point to and say - that's bad design, and has poor usability. I should know, my career is in design. I had to do a paper on human factors and all the versions of the playstation controllers were my focus. They are bad. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but know that if you think it's the best controller, ergonomically, you are wrong. There is nothing you can say to change this fact.
It is pure fact that the PlayStation controllers have always been poorly designed. Yes, people like them - because they got used to them at some point in the fifteen fucking years that Sony has been unable to come up with something that had proper ergonomics. Ripoff of SNES design, with extra shoulder buttons slapped on haphazardly. Then two sticks thrown in wherever they could find room. And rumble thrown in to the empty handles. Bam, call it a day. Later on, sure, make those extra shoulders triggers with a bump instead of a curve, that makes a lot of sense.
The dualshock is shit. It's small. The triggers suck. The sticks are not only too loose and inaccurate, but they have poor placement. The dpad being separated hurts your thumb with extended use, and overall, it's just ugly.
This is fact. There are very specific things you can point to and say - that's bad design, and has poor usability. I should know, my career is in design. I had to do a paper on human factors and all the versions of the playstation controllers were my focus. They are bad. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but know that if you think it's the best controller, ergonomically, you are wrong. There is nothing you can say to change this fact.
So.
You're kind of an asshole.
But he is right. The DS line of controllers is horrible.
It is pure fact that the PlayStation controllers have always been poorly designed. Yes, people like them - because they got used to them at some point in the fifteen fucking years that Sony has been unable to come up with something that had proper ergonomics. Ripoff of SNES design, with extra shoulder buttons slapped on haphazardly. Then two sticks thrown in wherever they could find room. And rumble thrown in to the empty handles. Bam, call it a day. Later on, sure, make those extra shoulders triggers with a bump instead of a curve, that makes a lot of sense.
The dualshock is shit. It's small. The triggers suck. The sticks are not only too loose and inaccurate, but they have poor placement. The dpad being separated hurts your thumb with extended use, and overall, it's just ugly.
This is fact. There are very specific things you can point to and say - that's bad design, and has poor usability. I should know, my career is in design. I had to do a paper on human factors and all the versions of the playstation controllers were my focus. They are bad. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but know that if you think it's the best controller, ergonomically, you are wrong. There is nothing you can say to change this fact.
It is pure fact that the PlayStation controllers have always been poorly designed. Yes, people like them - because they got used to them at some point in the fifteen fucking years that Sony has been unable to come up with something that had proper ergonomics. Ripoff of SNES design, with extra shoulder buttons slapped on haphazardly. Then two sticks thrown in wherever they could find room. And rumble thrown in to the empty handles. Bam, call it a day. Later on, sure, make those extra shoulders triggers with a bump instead of a curve, that makes a lot of sense.
The dualshock is shit. It's small. The triggers suck. The sticks are not only too loose and inaccurate, but they have poor placement. The dpad being separated hurts your thumb with extended use, and overall, it's just ugly.
This is fact. There are very specific things you can point to and say - that's bad design, and has poor usability. I should know, my career is in design. I had to do a paper on human factors and all the versions of the playstation controllers were my focus. They are bad. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but know that if you think it's the best controller, ergonomically, you are wrong. There is nothing you can say to change this fact.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't suppose we could see this paper, could we? It would be interesting reading.
Cameron_Talley on
Switch Friend Code: SW-4598-4278-8875
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
It is pure fact that the PlayStation controllers have always been poorly designed. Yes, people like them - because they got used to them at some point in the fifteen fucking years that Sony has been unable to come up with something that had proper ergonomics. Ripoff of SNES design, with extra shoulder buttons slapped on haphazardly. Then two sticks thrown in wherever they could find room. And rumble thrown in to the empty handles. Bam, call it a day. Later on, sure, make those extra shoulders triggers with a bump instead of a curve, that makes a lot of sense.
The dualshock is shit. It's small. The triggers suck. The sticks are not only too loose and inaccurate, but they have poor placement. The dpad being separated hurts your thumb with extended use, and overall, it's just ugly.
This is fact. There are very specific things you can point to and say - that's bad design, and has poor usability. I should know, my career is in design. I had to do a paper on human factors and all the versions of the playstation controllers were my focus. They are bad. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but know that if you think it's the best controller, ergonomically, you are wrong. There is nothing you can say to change this fact.
*applause*
That said, I do disagree on one point. The sticks are too inaccurate, but loose?
They're *nothing* compared to the X360 and original N64 controllers, by far the worst two when it comes to having too much play in the stick. The N64, because after only a month of Mario Party or Smash Bros, you would have to buy a whole new controller. And the X360? You can literally wiggle it around a good 10-15 degrees in either direction with no input. They're just horrible.
Best analogs ever?
Bar none.
edit: The Dreamcast was also pretty bad. The controller itself was way ahead of its time, but the Analogs were ripped right off of the N64 -- and let's face it, positioned badly.
The Gamecube is second place to the original Xbox Dukes. Lovely analogs, aside from that funny octagonal cage on the C-sticks.
Maybe games companies should look more into developing customisable controllers as everyone seems to have a different idea of what they want.
This would be nice. At least let us switch the D-pad and the left analog stick now. I really hate playing any 360 game, especially a shooter, because I can't get used to the wacky placement. To me it feels completely wrong.
Every game should have customizable controls, there's really no excuse for it. Surely if you can program in 'Type A' and 'Tybe B' control schemes, then you can just let the player decide what they want every button to do?
I think you misunderstood. He wants to physically swap the positions of the left analog and the d-pad.
In all seriousness, the sticks on both were quite good. Back then, MS made excellent PC controllers, and these came to us courtesy of the people who gave us beauties like the Sidewinder FF line. Nowadays, almost no one makes PC controllers.
I thought that the Controller S had almost identical sticks. Were they of a different feel or quality? It's been a while, I suppose.
It is pure fact that the PlayStation controllers have always been poorly designed. Yes, people like them - because they got used to them at some point in the fifteen fucking years that Sony has been unable to come up with something that had proper ergonomics. Ripoff of SNES design, with extra shoulder buttons slapped on haphazardly. Then two sticks thrown in wherever they could find room. And rumble thrown in to the empty handles. Bam, call it a day. Later on, sure, make those extra shoulders triggers with a bump instead of a curve, that makes a lot of sense.
The dualshock is shit. It's small. The triggers suck. The sticks are not only too loose and inaccurate, but they have poor placement. The dpad being separated hurts your thumb with extended use, and overall, it's just ugly.
This is fact. There are very specific things you can point to and say - that's bad design, and has poor usability. I should know, my career is in design. I had to do a paper on human factors and all the versions of the playstation controllers were my focus. They are bad. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but know that if you think it's the best controller, ergonomically, you are wrong. There is nothing you can say to change this fact.
Sticks? Did I just have retardo DC controllers or something? I remember one shitty d-pad and one shitty analog stick on my DC controllers.
*applause*
That said, I do disagree on one point. The sticks are too inaccurate, but loose?
They're *nothing* compared to the X360 and original N64 controllers, by far the worst two when it comes to having too much play in the stick. The N64, because after only a month of Mario Party or Smash Bros, you would have to buy a whole new controller. And the X360? You can literally wiggle it around a good 10-15 degrees in either direction with no input. They're just horrible.
Best analogs ever?
Bar none.
edit: The Dreamcast was also pretty bad. The controller itself was way ahead of its time, but the Analogs were ripped right off of the N64 -- and let's face it, positioned badly.
The Gamecube is second place to the original Xbox Dukes. Lovely analogs, aside from that funny octagonal cage on the C-sticks.
It is pure fact that the PlayStation controllers have always been poorly designed. Yes, people like them - because they got used to them at some point in the fifteen fucking years that Sony has been unable to come up with something that had proper ergonomics. Ripoff of SNES design, with extra shoulder buttons slapped on haphazardly. Then two sticks thrown in wherever they could find room. And rumble thrown in to the empty handles. Bam, call it a day. Later on, sure, make those extra shoulders triggers with a bump instead of a curve, that makes a lot of sense.
The dualshock is shit. It's small. The triggers suck. The sticks are not only too loose and inaccurate, but they have poor placement. The dpad being separated hurts your thumb with extended use, and overall, it's just ugly.
This is fact. There are very specific things you can point to and say - that's bad design, and has poor usability. I should know, my career is in design. I had to do a paper on human factors and all the versions of the playstation controllers were my focus. They are bad. I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but know that if you think it's the best controller, ergonomically, you are wrong. There is nothing you can say to change this fact.
So.
You're kind of an asshole.
Yeah, he does sound like one (he works in design, after all.)
In all seriousness, the sticks on both were quite good. Back then, MS made excellent PC controllers, and these came to us courtesy of the people who gave us beauties like the Sidewinder FF line. Nowadays, almost no one makes PC controllers.
I thought that the Controller S had almost identical sticks. Were they of a different feel or quality? It's been a while, I suppose.
S had better ergonomics overall, and the face buttons were certainly a huge improvement.
But analogs? Nay sir. I say, look at that beautiful target-groove shape on the Duke's secondary stick. It was perfection. And they both had *just* the right amount of concave/convex-itivity for their height (something else they did right) too, something that has yet to be duplicated on any other controller for some unknown godforsaken reason. Truly, a tragedy.
I'd say they probably changed stick design so they could use the same nub objects on both sticks. Pretty minor cost cutting, but you cut it wherever you can.
In all seriousness, the sticks on both were quite good. Back then, MS made excellent PC controllers, and these came to us courtesy of the people who gave us beauties like the Sidewinder FF line. Nowadays, almost no one makes PC controllers.
I thought that the Controller S had almost identical sticks. Were they of a different feel or quality? It's been a while, I suppose.
S had better ergonomics overall, and the face buttons were certainly a huge improvement.
But analogs? Nay sir. I say, look at that beautiful target-groove shape on the Duke's secondary stick. It was perfection. And they both had *just* the right amount of concave/convex-itivity, too, something that has yet to be duplicated on any other controller for some unknown godforsaken reason. Truly, a tragedy.
I defer to your wisdom, though I do imagine that might explain why I preferred the Duke to the S in 3D fighters (mostly DOA3 and a little SC2). Left stick is kind of big for them.
Though, it'd be well within one's capability to cut off the top off the left stick on two controllers, insert a thin metal rod (they're solid, after all), and use some strong glue or resin. If you wanted the ergonomics of the S and the left stick of the Duke, I mean. A little messy, but definitely doable.
(I didn't come up with this, I knew a guy who did it with the four controllers he owned when the S was first released. Either that, or he lied to me and had a secret line to computer hardware factories making Microsoft's stuff, and a custom blueprint.)
EDIT: Good Christ, seeing someone saying "I grew up with the GameCube" makes me feel old as fuck.
Seriously, Grew UP with a GCN? How old are are these people? I got the GameCube in COLLEGE.
Speaking of which, I still think the GCN controller is perfect, and I have pretty big hands, too. Fits my hands perfectly.
oh, you have big hands, do you?
Bearhands unite.
Man, that almost makes me want to start a thread where we make an infinite controller picture. People holding controllers in front of a picture of people holding controllers that goes on forever.
edit: I think I will actually do that once I have software ready to automate it.
FyreWulff on
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
I would most definitely purchase a baron.
As it stands right now I think my top three controllers (as far as ergonomics goes) are the Duke, the S, and the 360 wireless.
The Duke with bumpers would be the greatest thing ever. Imagine if the jewel were the guide button. . . that thing would need it's own battery pack just to power the LEDs to light the thing.
edit: also, AFAIK the all of the MS console analog stick covers (the plastic/rubber part) interface with the analog component in the exact same way, so it should be a fairly easy mod to swap the sticks around. At the very least, I know the Duke and the S are the same 'cause I swapped the sticks to have the godly Duke's xhair sticks on the otherwise godly S.
In all seriousness, the sticks on both were quite good. Back then, MS made excellent PC controllers, and these came to us courtesy of the people who gave us beauties like the Sidewinder FF line. Nowadays, almost no one makes PC controllers.
I thought that the Controller S had almost identical sticks. Were they of a different feel or quality? It's been a while, I suppose.
That's because 90% of the games that were also made on consoles already have plug and play built in for the 360 controller.
Talking of sticks and controllers in general no one has mentioned the Wii much at all yet. The Wiimote, nunchuck or classic controller. What's people's views on those?
I think that the Wii stick is very comfortable to use. It has good grip and is nice and tight, and the nunchuck itself is very comfortable. It does lack a few things like a couple of extra usable buttons and a second stick but we now know that playing with a split controller is nice.
Talking of sticks and controllers in general no one has mentioned the Wii much at all yet. The Wiimote, nunchuck or classic controller. What's people's views on those?
I think that the Wii stick is very comfortable to use. It has good grip and is nice and tight, and the nunchuck itself is very comfortable. It does lack a few things like a couple of extra usable buttons and a second stick but we now know that playing with a split controller is nice.
I... I actually dislike the split controller. It works for Wii, but I really hope that it does not become the norm. Coincidentally I hope that motion control dies after this gen, but I don't see that happening.
Wiimote could really do with more buttons, for a lot of games.
Yes, I know it is supposed to be intuitive and accessible, but so many games use shit like the down on the Dpad, and the + and - button for stuff that they really aren't suited to.
No other major complaints other than the Dpad being a little too small, and rumble in the nunchuck would be nice.
Talking of sticks and controllers in general no one has mentioned the Wii much at all yet. The Wiimote, nunchuck or classic controller. What's people's views on those?
I think that the Wii stick is very comfortable to use. It has good grip and is nice and tight, and the nunchuck itself is very comfortable. It does lack a few things like a couple of extra usable buttons and a second stick but we now know that playing with a split controller is nice.
I... I actually dislike the split controller. It works for Wii, but I really hope that it does not become the norm. Coincidentally I hope that motion control dies after this gen, but I don't see that happening.
I've been wondering recently whether instead of motion control the opposite, force feedback, should have been developed further instead?
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited August 2009
I like the gate on the nunchuck, I find the Dpad way too small on the wiimote. Nintendo didn't seem to learn that it is not a good idea to make a controller where a significant portion of the controller is not possible to reach (lol 3handled n64), which is pretty much the same with the 1 and 2 buttons.
I don't like how I have to pull some ninja foojistics if I want to take a drink or grab a bite. . . with a conventional controller I can just hold it with one hand, with wii+chuck I have to set one down. If it happens to be a lolwaggle game then that usual means catastrophic failure in the form of avatar seppuku.
That said, I applaud Nintendo's ability to sell extra shit we shouldn't actually need for highly inflated prices. By the end of the Wii's lifetime we'll end up having 4 wiimotes, 4 nunchucks, 4 motion pluses, 4 balance boards, 4 classic controllers, 4 heart sensors, 4 wii anal plugs, and 4 jumbo-sized Nintendo branded lube bottles, etc.
Posts
Every game should have customizable controls, there's really no excuse for it. Surely if you can program in 'Type A' and 'Tybe B' control schemes, then you can just let the player decide what they want every button to do?
I think you misunderstood. He wants to physically swap the positions of the left analog and the d-pad.
They're talking about Custom Controllers, not custom controls.
Like imagine if you could easily take out the face buttons and put them in place of the right analog stick or something.
You're kind of an asshole.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
So.
You are a great person. I applaud your post.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I don't suppose we could see this paper, could we? It would be interesting reading.
3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
*applause*
That said, I do disagree on one point. The sticks are too inaccurate, but loose?
They're *nothing* compared to the X360 and original N64 controllers, by far the worst two when it comes to having too much play in the stick. The N64, because after only a month of Mario Party or Smash Bros, you would have to buy a whole new controller. And the X360? You can literally wiggle it around a good 10-15 degrees in either direction with no input. They're just horrible.
Best analogs ever?
Bar none.
edit: The Dreamcast was also pretty bad. The controller itself was way ahead of its time, but the Analogs were ripped right off of the N64 -- and let's face it, positioned badly.
The Gamecube is second place to the original Xbox Dukes. Lovely analogs, aside from that funny octagonal cage on the C-sticks.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
Ooooh, gotchya. That would be cool....
Sir, I see your Duke and raise you an S.
In all seriousness, the sticks on both were quite good. Back then, MS made excellent PC controllers, and these came to us courtesy of the people who gave us beauties like the Sidewinder FF line. Nowadays, almost no one makes PC controllers.
I thought that the Controller S had almost identical sticks. Were they of a different feel or quality? It's been a while, I suppose.
Yeah, he does sound like one (he works in design, after all.)
He's still incredibly correct, though.
S had better ergonomics overall, and the face buttons were certainly a huge improvement.
But analogs? Nay sir. I say, look at that beautiful target-groove shape on the Duke's secondary stick. It was perfection. And they both had *just* the right amount of concave/convex-itivity for their height (something else they did right) too, something that has yet to be duplicated on any other controller for some unknown godforsaken reason. Truly, a tragedy.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
The start/select/black/white placement on the S was godawful.
I would either have to move my hands off of the controller to use them, or else sprain my thumbs reaching for them.
I defer to your wisdom, though I do imagine that might explain why I preferred the Duke to the S in 3D fighters (mostly DOA3 and a little SC2). Left stick is kind of big for them.
Though, it'd be well within one's capability to cut off the top off the left stick on two controllers, insert a thin metal rod (they're solid, after all), and use some strong glue or resin. If you wanted the ergonomics of the S and the left stick of the Duke, I mean. A little messy, but definitely doable.
(I didn't come up with this, I knew a guy who did it with the four controllers he owned when the S was first released. Either that, or he lied to me and had a secret line to computer hardware factories making Microsoft's stuff, and a custom blueprint.)
I'm convinced those damn things were built to MILSPEC.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
Well, at least you have a big penis.
I'M A TWITTER SHITTER
Well you know what they say about guys with big hands...
Bearhands unite.
Man, that almost makes me want to start a thread where we make an infinite controller picture. People holding controllers in front of a picture of people holding controllers that goes on forever.
edit: I think I will actually do that once I have software ready to automate it.
As it stands right now I think my top three controllers (as far as ergonomics goes) are the Duke, the S, and the 360 wireless.
The Duke with bumpers would be the greatest thing ever. Imagine if the jewel were the guide button. . . that thing would need it's own battery pack just to power the LEDs to light the thing.
edit: also, AFAIK the all of the MS console analog stick covers (the plastic/rubber part) interface with the analog component in the exact same way, so it should be a fairly easy mod to swap the sticks around. At the very least, I know the Duke and the S are the same 'cause I swapped the sticks to have the godly Duke's xhair sticks on the otherwise godly S.
"Hey man, uh.. shit. We made this controller and have a bit of empty space. What should we do?"
"Well Carl, We've already used up all the buttons"
"Oh I know! Let's install a fucking billboard sized logo in the middle of the controller, so people don't forget what console they are playing."
that's the only reason I never bothered to try to rig one myself with an old, used Duke.
I really need to start the CDE (Coalition of Duke Enthusiasts) back up and try petitioning MSoft again
That's because 90% of the games that were also made on consoles already have plug and play built in for the 360 controller.
I think that the Wii stick is very comfortable to use. It has good grip and is nice and tight, and the nunchuck itself is very comfortable. It does lack a few things like a couple of extra usable buttons and a second stick but we now know that playing with a split controller is nice.
Yes, I know it is supposed to be intuitive and accessible, but so many games use shit like the down on the Dpad, and the + and - button for stuff that they really aren't suited to.
No other major complaints other than the Dpad being a little too small, and rumble in the nunchuck would be nice.
I've been wondering recently whether instead of motion control the opposite, force feedback, should have been developed further instead?
I don't like how I have to pull some ninja foojistics if I want to take a drink or grab a bite. . . with a conventional controller I can just hold it with one hand, with wii+chuck I have to set one down. If it happens to be a lolwaggle game then that usual means catastrophic failure in the form of avatar seppuku.
That said, I applaud Nintendo's ability to sell extra shit we shouldn't actually need for highly inflated prices. By the end of the Wii's lifetime we'll end up having 4 wiimotes, 4 nunchucks, 4 motion pluses, 4 balance boards, 4 classic controllers, 4 heart sensors, 4 wii anal plugs, and 4 jumbo-sized Nintendo branded lube bottles, etc.
yeah because the other consoles only support 2 controllers
needed for analog control
which are going to be coming free with a crap ton of games, and are permanent upgrades to the Wiimote
The Wii can only handle a maximum of 2 and then you can't use a Wiimote at all
which so far are fully optional