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Second Life, what is this bullshit?

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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Defender wrote:
    It seems that free speech has a few limits. Stuff like death threats and child pornography seem to be the line.

    I'm going to fucking kill you while jerking off to naked 6 year old amputees.

    Meiz on
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    RpegRpeg bear at picnic table SeattleRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think it's the creation of child porn that's most illegal, because the children involved are being sexually abused. Since no child is being abused in Second Life, there isn't a problem in this respect.

    Rpeg on
    Steam: FairyDick
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Meiz wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    It seems that free speech has a few limits. Stuff like death threats and child pornography seem to be the line.

    I'm going to fucking kill you while jerking off to naked 6 year old amputees.

    OK, just let me finish beating off to baby pictures of myself first. The goal is to jizz on my own face but not get any on mother. Lately I've just been wearing condoms when I do this.

    Defender on
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    MendozaMendoza Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think it's the creation of child porn that's most illegal, because the children involved are being sexually abused. Since no child is being abused in Second Life, there isn't a problem in this respect.

    there was a case that went before the supreme court that ruled pretty much that

    http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/04/16/scotus.virtual.child.porn/index.html

    Mendoza on
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    precisionkprecisionk Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Defender wrote:
    Meiz wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    It seems that free speech has a few limits. Stuff like death threats and child pornography seem to be the line.

    I'm going to fucking kill you while jerking off to naked 6 year old amputees.

    OK, just let me finish beating off to baby pictures of myself first. The goal is to jizz on my own face but not get any on mother. Lately I've just been wearing condoms when I do this.

    You just won an Emmy, congrats.

    precisionk on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    precisionk wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    Meiz wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    It seems that free speech has a few limits. Stuff like death threats and child pornography seem to be the line.

    I'm going to fucking kill you while jerking off to naked 6 year old amputees.

    OK, just let me finish beating off to baby pictures of myself first. The goal is to jizz on my own face but not get any on mother. Lately I've just been wearing condoms when I do this.

    You just won an Emmy, congrats.

    Do I get the one for supporting actor?

    Meiz on
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    AslanAslan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I think it's the creation of child porn that's most illegal, because the children involved are being sexually abused. Since no child is being abused in Second Life, there isn't a problem in this respect.

    Honestly, I don't know about this. True, no child is harmed in this instance, however, the closer we get to a simulation of what real child rape is like, the harder it would seem to be for someone with those proclivities to keep from committing the actual act. Therefore, allowing something such as this, while not technically illegal should be frowned upon and generally restricted (not by goverment, but by the providers of the service) because I really don't see Johnny Pervert limiting himself to virtual kiddie rape as he gets a more and more realistic taste of the flailing of tiny limbs and the petulant cries of an ass cherry gone bust.

    Aslan on
    Captain_Renault.gif I'm shocked...shocked, to find faggotry in this thread.
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    KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    you would be pretty hard pressed to justify virtual violence and condemn virtual pornography

    I personally think a double standard is applicable, but that's just me and I doubt you could legislate one without legislating the other

    Kazhiim on
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    Does anyone have the link where the SA goons built a re-enactment of 9/11 that continually loops just to see how much they could cause surrounding property values to plummet?

    Doc on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Aslan, that's basically the Jack Thompson argument. "Realistic video game violence causes shit like Columbine."

    Defender on
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    KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    so it turns out I uninstalled SL

    no siege tank for yous guys

    Kazhiim on
    lost_sig2.png
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    precisionkprecisionk Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Meiz wrote:
    precisionk wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    Meiz wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    It seems that free speech has a few limits. Stuff like death threats and child pornography seem to be the line.

    I'm going to fucking kill you while jerking off to naked 6 year old amputees.

    OK, just let me finish beating off to baby pictures of myself first. The goal is to jizz on my own face but not get any on mother. Lately I've just been wearing condoms when I do this.

    You just won an Emmy, congrats.

    Do I get the one for supporting actor?

    No, you got a Tony Award for Gayest Broadway Key Grip.

    precisionk on
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    MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    precisionk wrote:
    Meiz wrote:
    precisionk wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    Meiz wrote:
    Defender wrote:
    It seems that free speech has a few limits. Stuff like death threats and child pornography seem to be the line.

    I'm going to fucking kill you while jerking off to naked 6 year old amputees.

    OK, just let me finish beating off to baby pictures of myself first. The goal is to jizz on my own face but not get any on mother. Lately I've just been wearing condoms when I do this.

    You just won an Emmy, congrats.

    Do I get the one for supporting actor?

    No, you got a Tony Award for Gayest Broadway Key Grip.

    They let me sing sometimes too...

    Meiz on
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    AslanAslan Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Defender wrote:
    Aslan, that's basically the Jack Thompson argument. "Realistic video game violence causes shit like Columbine."

    I suppose everyone has their limit. Mine just happens to be Kiddie Rape 4 Dummiez in an MMO or whatever the fuck SL is considered as.

    Aslan on
    Captain_Renault.gif I'm shocked...shocked, to find faggotry in this thread.
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    The_LightbringerThe_Lightbringer Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    From: http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=947

    G-Men Called on W-Hats for WMVD
    Friday December 16, 2005 by Ed Felten

    [Despite our recent focus on the SonyBMG CD flap, our mandate here at Freedom to Tinker covers infotech and policy generally. So I hope any Sonymaniacs in the audience will forgive me for posting about something else today. (If you need a Sony fix, Bruce Hayden can help.) Regularly scheduled Sony-related programming will resume next week.]

    There’s a fascinating story going around about the intersection between virtual worlds and real-life law enforcement. (I have written twice before about this topic.) It started in a virtual world called Second Life, which has 70,000 or so members. There’s a group of in-world characters calling themselves the W-Hats. Stories in the Second Life Herald — a foulmouthed but apparently somewhat trusted virtual newspaper about Second Life — depict the W-Hats as a gang of racist thugs. (The rest of the story I tell here is based on the Herald’s reporting.)

    One of the cool things about Second Life is that players can create new kinds of objects, by writing small programs in a special scripting language to describe how the objects should behave, and then launching objects into the world.

    Things got really out of hand when the W-Hats created a doomsday device. It looked like a harmless little orb, but it was programmed to make copies of itself, repeatedly. The single object split into two. Then each of those split, and there were four. Then eight, and sixteen, and so on to infinity.

    Okay, not exactly to infinity but to billions of copies (after thirty-some generations of splitting), at which point the servers running Second Life crashed, and the whole virtual world was knocked off-line. The W-Hats had created a Weapon of Mass Virtual Destruction (WMVD).

    The WMVD was detonated more than once, and on at least one occasion Linden Lab, the company that runs Second Life, contained the damage by taking parts of the world offline as a kind of virtual firebreak.

    Last week at an in-world holiday party, Philip Linden, the character played by Linden Lab CEO Philip Rosedale, mentioned that the company had called the FBI about the attacks and had turned over the names of some players. Others at the party reportedly praised the action. But was this justified? Should the FBI get involved in this mess?

    It seems to me that they should. A WMVD of this sort is just a fancy denial of service attack, and a deliberate denial of service attack against a large network service looks to me like a crime. It’s possible that the first attack wasn’t meant to crash Second Life — though even if not deliberate it was certainly reckless — but subsequent attacks could only have been intended to cause a crash.

    There is some indication that Linden Lab may have banned at least one player temporarily because of the attacks, but there is a limit to the effectiveness of in-world punishment. As James Grimmelmann has argued, the worst punishment available in-world is exile from the world — try to impose a stronger penalty on someone and he will simply exile himself by leaving the virtual world permanently. Real-world punishments can be worse than exile and so stronger deterrence is available in the real world. When stronger deterrence is needed, real-world punishment may be the only option.

    Some have argued that players shouldn’t be punished for doing things that the world’s coding allows them to do. But that seems to me to be the wrong rule. For one thing, that’s not how things work in the real world, where you can commit all manner of crimes without violating the laws of physics. And it’s just wrong to think that the virtual world can be coded in a way that allows everything good but prevents everything bad. Any virtual world (if I may be forgiven for that phrase) that is complicated enough to be interesting will probably enable some undesired behavior.

    It will sometimes be necessary, then, to appeal to real-world law enforcement to handle bad acts in virtual worlds. In general, there are lots of caveats here — for example, in some worlds, in-world fraud or murder is considered just part of the game; and world-builders shouldn’t run to the FBI over minor problems. But the particular case before us seems like an easy one: the FBI should investigate and, at the very least, use its power to intimidate the perpetrators into behaving better.

    The_Lightbringer on
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    anarcakeanarcake regular
    edited December 2006
    So they nuked a virtual world?
    Neat.

    But I think the rest of the article is just hype/filler/shock material "they're gonna outlaw the internet" kind of stuff

    anarcake on
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    Darth WaiterDarth Waiter Elrond Hubbard Mordor XenuRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    geek attack

    These people need to get off their asses, brush their fangs, go to the gym, and pay some hookers for sex. There's nothing like an orgasm to make you say, "Hey, that was pretty good. I think I'll persue this sensation more actively."

    Darth Waiter on
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    EffStarStarStarEffStarStarStar Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Well, I gotta go, but I'll be back to discuss in a couple hours.

    EffStarStarStar on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Basically I think it's good to take this shit seriously. It's vandalism, even if it's "only a video game." The loss of revenue that would happen if the game lost customers because jackoffs crash it whenever they feel like is not acceptable. You can say it's their fault for not building better security, but like the article says, that's bullshit; If someone burns down a convenience store, it's not the fault of the owner for not guarding it well enough. Not in the legal or ethical senses, anyway. As we, as a society, start to do more and more things in virtual settings, it's important to understand that "it's just some digital nerdy playground" is not a valid argument that suspends ethics and law.

    Defender on
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    KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    The problem, defender, is that there are no laws governing this sort of thing. It would be terrible to establish a precedent that jackoffs like Jack Thompson and that "series of tubes" guy could take advantage of.

    Kazhiim on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kazhiim wrote:
    The problem, defender, is that there are no laws governing this sort of thing. It would be terrible to establish a precedent that jackoffs like Jack Thompson and that "series of tubes" guy could take advantage of.

    By "this shit" I mean launching creative attacks on people's computers, like crashing Second Life servers via scripted entities that reproduce exponentially and without bound. Is that what you're addressing?

    Defender on
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    KazhiimKazhiim __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Yes. As soon as you write one law for the interblag, whether it's dealing with denial of service attacks or child porn or game ratings, people will be clamoring to write laws for all that other shit

    Kazhiim on
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited December 2006
    If you don't like child porn, you are a fag.

    That should be a rule.

    Tube on
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    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    If you don't like child porn, you are a fag.

    That should be a rule.

    You might want to take that to the Man Code or Man Law or Man Rule thread or whatever.

    Defender on
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    ElectricBoogalooElectricBoogaloo Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    When The Internet is outlawed, only outlaws will have The Internets.

    ElectricBoogaloo on
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    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Defender wrote:
    Kazhiim wrote:
    The problem, defender, is that there are no laws governing this sort of thing. It would be terrible to establish a precedent that jackoffs like Jack Thompson and that "series of tubes" guy could take advantage of.

    By "this shit" I mean launching creative attacks on people's computers, like crashing Second Life servers via scripted entities that reproduce exponentially and without bound. Is that what you're addressing?


    Someone with a Dr. Robotnik avatar pulled off a grey goo attack with golden rings that made the *Drriing* sound from Sonics 1-3 every time they duplicated.

    El Reg had an article on it, in addition to the attack mentioned in this thread. Not to mention their actual Sadville player/reporter. (Note: NSFW! Click at your own peril!)

    We need to give these people medals.

    MechMantis on
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    EffStarStarStarEffStarStarStar Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Defender wrote:
    Kazhiim wrote:
    The problem, defender, is that there are no laws governing this sort of thing. It would be terrible to establish a precedent that jackoffs like Jack Thompson and that "series of tubes" guy could take advantage of.

    By "this shit" I mean launching creative attacks on people's computers, like crashing Second Life servers via scripted entities that reproduce exponentially and without bound. Is that what you're addressing?

    Well, one problem is that people who make the laws have no idea what they're talking about particularly when it comes to the internet. If they were to make laws that deal with virtual real estate (oxymoron? o_O) or virtual vandalism, they could very easily word it so poorly that something as innocuous as camping the hostages in Counterstrike could technically become a criminal matter.

    EffStarStarStar on
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    Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Necroposting!

    Second Life: Vitrual Utopia of the Future!

    (warning, contains fucking till eggs start rolling out)

    Synthetic Orange on
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    ShurakaiShurakai Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Id like to explore this game just to see the utter randomness of it.

    I'm immune to furries in any case.

    Shurakai on
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    TalonTalon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I spent more money buying a cool samus suit in that game than making a really nice furry avatar

    I guess that shows how much I'm into Second Life

    Talon on
    cheesewhizsig.gif
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    ShurakaiShurakai Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Do you have to animate the avatar that you make? Like how does one go about making custom content? An external modeling program and than importing stuff?

    Shurakai on
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    OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2007
    wait wait wait wait

    so this is like heaven for people who cyber frequently and have no self-respect and also strange fetishes

    the hell why didn't i get in on this sooner

    Oboro on
    words
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    MugginsMuggins Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The people at Something Awful recently 'aquired' a fully 'working' diaper from a babyfur store.

    Muggins on
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    hey satan...: thinkgeek amazon My post |
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    RedeemerRedeemer Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    God bless those horrible assholes

    Redeemer on
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    PotUPotU __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2007
    I think he should smite them with his hammer.

    PotU on
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    Wise_aWise_a Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I put on my wizard hat and cloak...

    Wise_a on
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] new member
    edited January 2007
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    [Deleted User] on
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    ShurakaiShurakai Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    It's robe, than wizard hat

    Read up on your Bloodninja

    Shurakai on
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    ArcibiArcibi Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I'd almost join Second Life just to be a dick to people

    Arcibi on
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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Warrem Ellis writes some kind of column somewhere about SL.

    DouglasDanger on
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