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Canadian Politics: Proroguery Electric Boogaloo (with epic Harper evil picture in OP)

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Posts

  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Oh also the original BCSC ruling struck down the general possession and trafficking provisions of the controlled drugs and substances act. I hope the SCC makes the same ruling

    Azio on
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    So yeah, back to Canadian Politics

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/01/15/calgary-haiti-alberta-donations-stelmach-red-cross.html

    Yukon: $25,000

    British Columbia: $500,000

    Manitoba: $100,000

    Ontario: $1 million

    Nova Scotia: $100,000

    New Brunswick: $100,000

    Prince Edward Island: $50,000

    Newfoundland and Labrador: $1 million

    Alberta: 0 because BOOTSTRAPS

    I hope some angry Hatians tie that fucker down and cockpunch him until he's a eunuch.

    edit: rare win in CBC comments
    I for one, would have a real hard time riding that $7 M Alberta sponsored Olympic luxury train, knowing what's happening in Haiti. Sure there are tough decisions to make about where gov't spends money and that decision's been made already. But you're willing to spend my money on that stupid train, and then say 'no money from Alberta' to help ease this catastrophic human suffering? I've found money in my budget to make my donation, Ed, hopefully enough to make a small difference. The tax break? I could care less. I don't think that's the main reason why most people donate, FYI. This makes Albertans look like cheapskates - even the maratimes are donating.

    I wonder, if given the choice, what ALBERTANS would rather do with our tax dollars...help people to enjoy the high life, or give people a chance to live.

    man... I defend this place a lot but can't say much about that.It's weird because farmers in general give a lot in these kind of situations.

    Disco11 on
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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Farmers know all to fucking keenly what it's like to be shat all over by nature. That's why it's so fucking gob-smacking when you hear a farmer say "I don't believe in climate change hurf durf" because they should know what a treacherous bitch mother nature is, and how important planning years ahead is to scraping by on the mortgage payments.

    Robman on
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I really, really didn't intend for that earlier bent in the discussion and was unable to reply at the time since I was in the hospital having surgery on my intestines. All I was trying to point out was that by that jerk off shock jock's own logic he himself deserves to die, so I find it insane that any could agree with him. That it was later noted some of Harper;s appointments fell along those lines, it just adds to yet more reasons I want to see Harper and any of his ilk out of politics all the sooner ... so ya, I won't forget about the prorogue stuff, his detrimental policies to our country, especially the lack of accountability and needed transparency ... and the sorry state of affairs for Haiti just makes it seem far more urgent to me to see Harper and Co gone, because if we end up dragging our heels in helping them even in the slightest, I am holding his government responsible for that too.

    CanadianWolverine on
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  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Rob, what you are forgetting is that farmers in general are hicks. Stupid (or at least very undereducated), sheltered (small communities, never hear any opposing ideas) hicks.

    psyck0 on
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  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Rob, what you are forgetting is that farmers in general are hicks. Stupid (or at least very undereducated), sheltered (small communities, never hear any opposing ideas) hicks.

    Generalizing much?

    Disco11 on
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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Rob, what you are forgetting is that farmers in general are hicks. Stupid (or at least very undereducated), sheltered (small communities, never hear any opposing ideas) hicks.

    What the fuck are you talking about man. Farmers are applied agricultural scientists, or they're broke. You cannot run a farm without understanding how it works. And please, please don't conflate a lack of formal educational credentials with closed-mindedness or informational awareness.

    Robman on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Rob, what you are forgetting is that farmers in general are hicks. Stupid (or at least very undereducated), sheltered (small communities, never hear any opposing ideas) hicks.

    What the fuck are you talking about man. Farmers are applied agricultural scientists, or they're broke. You cannot run a farm without understanding how it works. And please, please don't conflate a lack of formal educational credentials with closed-mindedness or informational awareness.

    At the same time, don't conflate being an "applied agricultural scientist" with informational awareness either.

    However, afaik, statistically rural -> more conservative (not as in the party, but as in further right) still tracks, neh?

    shryke on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Rob, what you are forgetting is that farmers in general are hicks. Stupid (or at least very undereducated), sheltered (small communities, never hear any opposing ideas) hicks.

    What the fuck are you talking about man. Farmers are applied agricultural scientists, or they're broke. You cannot run a farm without understanding how it works. And please, please don't conflate a lack of formal educational credentials with closed-mindedness or informational awareness.

    At the same time, don't conflate being an "applied agricultural scientist" with informational awareness either.

    However, afaik, statistically rural -> more conservative (not as in the party, but as in further right) still tracks, neh?

    Well interestingly the vast majority of voters aren't actually able to correctly identify the platforms of the parties they vote for regardless of voting location, and tend to vote in accordance with personal tradition. Farmers vote conservative because farmers vote conservative, urbanites vote liberal/ndp because urbanites vote liberal/ndp.

    Robman on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Robman wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Rob, what you are forgetting is that farmers in general are hicks. Stupid (or at least very undereducated), sheltered (small communities, never hear any opposing ideas) hicks.

    What the fuck are you talking about man. Farmers are applied agricultural scientists, or they're broke. You cannot run a farm without understanding how it works. And please, please don't conflate a lack of formal educational credentials with closed-mindedness or informational awareness.

    At the same time, don't conflate being an "applied agricultural scientist" with informational awareness either.

    However, afaik, statistically rural -> more conservative (not as in the party, but as in further right) still tracks, neh?

    Well interestingly the vast majority of voters aren't actually able to correctly identify the platforms of the parties they vote for regardless of voting location, and tend to vote in accordance with personal tradition. Farmers vote conservative because farmers vote conservative, urbanites vote liberal/ndp because urbanites vote liberal/ndp.

    "Personal Tradition" wouldn't be quite the right word for it.

    People don't vote Conservative/Liberal/etc just because their daddies did.

    Firstly, as you say, people don't know much about the parties real platforms. They do, however, have a general sense of what each party is about that is coloured by their upbringing and locale and such. Combine this with their political beliefs also being shaped by their locale and you get "Farmers vote for the Conservative Party" because they were raised to generally have conservative beliefs and because in their mind the Conservative Party is what best represents those beliefs because .......... well, because they are called the Conservative Party so obviously whatever I believe is conservative is what they believe.


    So, essentially, people's political beliefs aren't tradition, they are real. It's just their understanding of the issues and the parties stances on them is almost universally awful. So they just vote for whatever party seems to best fit the label they have chosen for themselves.

    shryke on
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    "Personal Tradition" wouldn't be quite the right word for it.

    People don't vote Conservative/Liberal/etc just because their daddies did.

    Firstly, as you say, people don't know much about the parties real platforms. They do, however, have a general sense of what each party is about that is coloured by their upbringing and locale and such. Combine this with their political beliefs also being shaped by their locale and you get "Farmers vote for the Conservative Party" because they were raised to generally have conservative beliefs and because in their mind the Conservative Party is what best represents those beliefs because .......... well, because they are called the Conservative Party so obviously whatever I believe is conservative is what they believe.


    So, essentially, people's political beliefs aren't tradition, they are real. It's just their understanding of the issues and the parties stances on them is almost universally awful. So they just vote for whatever party seems to best fit the label they have chosen for themselves.

    This comes across as pretty much spot on. If you want "rural" to stop voting conservative, you need to show them the party isn't holding up to the name and that another party actually represents that better. Its why I think we need proportional representation from a STV, because I don't just have the values of one party but a mix and would much like to convey that better - its also why I am not opposed to the notion of a coalition forming government because what better represents a mix of ideals needing to be priorities, compromised, and develop effective cooperative strategies for the benefit of all my fellow citizens?

    CanadianWolverine on
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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I've been starting to wonder what would happen if the PQ didnt exist and instead all of its seats had somehow managed to be proportionally split among the remaining parties such that their comparative percentages of the house of commons remained unchanged.

    If a coalition only required NDP + Liberal, I could see it being a much more realistic threat to the Conservative plurality.

    I also wouldnt mind seeing something that would enable parties to relax the strict party line procedures, since from what I understand, it was through some procedural rules wrangling that the PCs bent over the Liberals, and ever since parties have tried to enforce party line as strictly as possible.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Are you talking about during the Tories first minority government, when Dion was the leader of the Liberals? That was just the Conservatives knowing that the Liberals were in no shape to run and election so they kept making everything a vote of confidence so the Liberals had to pass it or they would be forced to run an election they had no chance of winning and which would probably have given Harper a majority government.

    The whole thing was pretty evil on Harper's part but it was brilliant politicking

    Trus on
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  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I wouldn't mind seeing MPs showing backbone and standing up for their constituents, not their party. I hate the party system.

    psyck0 on
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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    No, I'm talking about an instance when the Liberals were still the governing body.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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  • TrusTrus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    No, I'm talking about an instance when the Liberals were still the governing body.

    I have no idea what you are talking about then :P
    psyck0 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind seeing MPs showing backbone and standing up for their constituents, not their party. I hate the party system.

    I use to kind of hate the party system but I don't mind it so much now that I realize that what the constituents want and what the party wants are, more often than not, the same thing. If you're a Liberal elected in Ontario chances are your constituents are going to agree with whatever course of action the Liberal party takes--same thing if you're a conservative in Alberta.

    Trus on
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  • blkmageblkmage Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    This article is pretty interesting. It compares the current (sad) state of the Canadian Parliament with other legislative bodies around the world (like the US Congress and the British Parliament).

    blkmage on
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Cross posting, we're sending 800 troops from Valcartier to Haiti.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
  • Operative21Operative21 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Robman wrote:
    So yeah, back to Canadian Politics

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...red-cross.html

    Yukon: $25,000

    British Columbia: $500,000

    Manitoba: $100,000

    Ontario: $1 million

    Nova Scotia: $100,000

    New Brunswick: $100,000

    Prince Edward Island: $50,000

    Newfoundland and Labrador: $1 million

    Alberta: 0 because BOOTSTRAPS

    I hope some angry Hatians tie that fucker down and cockpunch him until he's a eunuch.

    Man, I gotta tip my hat in respect to those folks in Newfoundland and Labrador. That's one hell of a contribution for a maritime province.

    Operative21 on
  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    To be fair, maybe Danny Boy should have donated half of that and bribed two Oncologists onto The Rock.

    Robman on
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    blkmage wrote: »
    This article is pretty interesting. It compares the current (sad) state of the Canadian Parliament with other legislative bodies around the world (like the US Congress and the British Parliament).

    That article is also pretty wrong on a couple of points:

    It says that congress can call members of the executive to account for their actions, but that proved false with the subpoena of one Richard Cheney.

    It also indicated that members of congress can vote against the party line if legislation doesnt serve the interests of their constituents, which while true, doesnt address the fact that they will also often vote against their constituents interests to further their own political interests.

    It also suggests that Canadian MPs unlike the American representatives cower at the hands of their party whips, but looking at the freshman congressman from Louisianna I believe, who actually had the party whip stand behind him to make sure he broke one of his campaign promises to vote party line.

    Also, some professor makes a point saying that "it looks undemocratic for a caucus to choose its own leader" which is retarded on the face of it.

    This post sounds alot more shrill than I'd like it to, and I apologize for that. But the article attempts a compare and contrast of Canada's Parliamentary system to other countries, and often stretches the truth or ignores contrasting information in order to put Canada into a more negative light to try and push its own opinion.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Ok.... So Alberta has deceided to donate 500 000$ to haiti and send down personel.

    http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100115/edm_haiti_100115/20100115/?hub=EdmontonHome

    Disco11 on
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  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Ok.... So Alberta has deceided to donate 500 000$ to haiti and send down personel.

    http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100115/edm_haiti_100115/20100115/?hub=EdmontonHome

    Better late than never I suppose. :/

    Nova_C on
  • dobilaydobilay Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    More new polls with some very interesting results.

    http://threehundredeight.blogspot.com/2010/01/two-new-polls-6-pt-or-16-pt.html

    dobilay on
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    People are impressed with the Cons response to Haiti, which was really very well-calculated and prompt. Matching donations is always extremely popular, even though it might have been more effective to just give $50 million straight up.

    psyck0 on
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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    dobilay wrote: »

    The EKOS poll is likely the more reliable, being over a larger time period and having a larger sample size. People will rah rah the government for a week or two, but the proroguery hasn't left the national dialogue and likely won't before the election.

    Robman on
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I think you underestimate how short the political memory is.

    psyck0 on
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  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    psyck0 wrote: »
    I think you underestimate how short the political memory is.

    Harper and his PR team are still two steps behind the game here, because they have no answer in a debate that will satisfy the population as to why they prorogued parliament. Less then half the Conservative voters and just a tiny fraction of all other voters believed the government's excuse, and that's going to play out badly in front of the national audience.

    Every time Harper discusses his plans, Ignatieff just has to mention "You derailed this legislation by proroguing parliament, why are you lying to Canadians by saying this is important to you?" considering his platform hasn't changed.

    Robman on
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Depressing eye-opener: Considering the history of all Westminster-style democratic parliamentary systems throughout the world, having a PM proroguing parliament to dodge democratic scrutiny has only happened thrice. All three times were in Canada. Two of them were by Stephen Harper.

    Richy on
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  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Jesus what.

    Imperfect on
  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Rob, do people actually care about the debate? Serious question. I don't know anyone who does. I also don't think that the liberal party could put together a competent PR campaign to save their lives right now.

    psyck0 on
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This discussion has been closed.