The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
We now return to our regularly scheduled PA Forums. Please let me (Hahnsoo1) know if something isn't working. The Holiday Forum will remain up until January 10, 2025.

The Future of CF

135678

Posts

  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Lots of good ideas being tossed around here, but I have a question.

    And I don't mean it disrespectfully, but: Is anyone besides Thanatos actually experiencing this problem? Like, at all?

    EDIT: I mean, I'm still reasonably n00bish around here, and I don't find the amount of activity/distribution of threads/anything about this place intimidating in the least.

    Gandalf_the_Crazed on
    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Notice: I'm not eloquent like Arivia and Infidel and co.

    Thanatos, is what's "off the table" having a CF level PbP subforum or having a Arcadia Battle Academy level PbP subforum?

    Because the best idea I've seen to reduce the "clutter" on CF-main is to move the IC threads to a subforum. I actually like it because, and this is coming from someone who lurks and participates in a lot of PbP and a lot of Phallas, the IC threads for games I'm not in are the ones that I view as "taking up space".

    Delmain on
  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Huh. Lot of active discussion in here.

    The number of PbP threads cluttering up the forum is a problem. As other people have said, only five-seven people will regularly peruse any given thread, as opposed to general discussion threads where discussion can actually happen.

    So a simple cutting out OOC would help, but it wouldn't be a solution, because having OOC threads is really useful for a GM and players. It would kind of suck to remove them.

    Having OOC and IC threads in a subforum, with recruitment on the main page, would be really nice. It would be my optimal solution, really. But then we're stuck with the problem of a front page that ISN'T active, which is perhaps worse than an overly-active front page.

    I mean right now, we've got Art of War, Warhammer x2, Board Games, BSG, D&D, and Phalla + Miniphallax3, which is a mere 10 threads to fill the front page. Maybe WW discussion and a few other topics would fill their place, but it would leave the bottom of the front page relatively stagnant aside from PbP recruiting threads.

    So would this be an improvement? Probably. It leaves room for discussions to stay on the page without falling off immediately(see my recent Eclipse Phase thread, I doubt it'll get off the ground thanks to the PbP flood.) What also would help would be an RPG general thread, where we can discuss anything rather than just D&D. It would let us spawn threads off of that if people found a specific game interesting, which would be really nice, rather than just shooting something off into the breeze completely out of context(again, see my Eclipse Phase thread.)

    A PHALLA SUBFORUM WILL NOT FIX ANYTHING, however. There's not a lot of Phalla discussion and it doesn't take up that much space. It's one of the cores of this forum and I'd hate to see it shoved into a subforum. If you lock Phalla threads 24 hours after a Phalla wraps up, there's not going to be a lot of phalla clutter on the main page, which would be ideal. Just the active threads, which is what you want, yes? There's usually 30+ posters in a Phallathread, which is a good number.

    So, in summary.

    - A Phalla subforum won't fix any problems. Lock phallathreads 24 hours after game end.
    - A PbP forum would probably help a lot, provided recruitment threads could be opened in CF proper.
    - Allowing some general RPG discussion threads(similar to Boardgame thread) would help a lot for fostering new discussion and perhaps opening new discussion threads.
    - If that's not allowed, forcing IC/OOC threads to combine would fix a lot of space issues, but it would be much more inelegant.

    Rainfall on
  • Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I agree with Rainfall. The only feasible way to split CF into subforums without hurting any particular game type would be to have actual game threads (Phallas, PbP, whatever) in a subforum and the recruitment/discussion threads in the main forum. Even then, basically hiding the actual games from any casual visitor who stumbles into CF could be harmful. I think all CF games benefit from the audience other game types bring, and reducing this audience would be detrimental to everyone.

    Bliss 101 on
    MSL59.jpg
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Well, once a PbP game gets going, it's kind of intimidating to ask a question- you don't want to disturb or clutter the thread (unless they're asking for new players). So I'm liking the whole PbP sub-forum thing. I mean, leave recruitment/question threads in CF regular, but link to the OOC/IC threads in the first post. This way, people can ask questions and save space for other threads.

    I don't think moving ALL gaming to a subforum would be a good idea, as it'd pretty much kill off CF, and obviously this isn't your goal.

    Cutting down on phallas just nets you the one thread, and increases the grumbling and dissent among the pool of phalla players for the limited number of spots available. So I have to respectfully disagree with this option.

    All in all, the PbP sub-forum would be best, but that's just me talking.

    JaysonFour on
    steam_sig.png
    I can has cheezburger, yes?
  • GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Phalla is sustained by being part of the CF front page, the only new players it gets are those drafted in by friends or those who stumble across it, people don't seek it out if they haven't heard of it before.

    That idea about a subforum for IC threads while OOC threads exist on the main page is a nice one though, I like that idea a lot.

    Gumpy on
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Rainfall wrote: »
    - A Phalla subforum won't fix any problems. Lock phallathreads 24 hours after game end.
    24 hours is way too fast for a lockage. Hell, some hosts (who are bed) don't even always get around to posting their mechanics and a possible epilogue within the first day after the game's over. And then there's the juicy confessions and recriminations and post-game grudging. Plus, discussion of the game's mechanics to improve for next time, etc. 2-3 days is far healthier.

    Spectrum on
    XNnw6Gk.jpg
  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    And to extend that thought, locking it after 2-3 days won't help with the alleged issue that much; discussion rarely continues past that point anyway.

    Gandalf_the_Crazed on
    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    And to extend that thought, locking it after 2-3 days won't help with the alleged issue that much; discussion rarely continues past that point anyway.
    I suppose the intent is to try and keep phalla threads from getting bumped by the one guy who wanders in late and has a sentence to say.

    Not that it's really an actual problem, since even that doesn't happen past like 5 days.

    Spectrum on
    XNnw6Gk.jpg
  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    hmm.
    what about just increasing the main page by 20 threads?

    I mean seriously, this is the internet, people. Possibilities are limitless.

    streever on
  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The problem is when 3 phallas end around the same time, and discussion on the previous phallas keeps going for however long it takes to get all of the new phallas up and running. It can clog up the front page for like a week with useless threads. Much as I like(d?) phalla, it's a bit of a silliness.

    Rainfall on
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Post-game talk in the threads is a silliness? Almost every PbP thread I've seen end in these parts has had 2-5 days of post game chat.

    Rend on
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Rainfall wrote: »
    The problem is when 3 phallas end around the same time, and discussion on the previous phallas keeps going for however long it takes to get all of the new phallas up and running. It can clog up the front page for like a week with useless threads. Much as I like(d?) phalla, it's a bit of a silliness.
    Oh yes, those three or four threads which are still going BECAUSE THERE ARE NO NEW GAME THREADS ACTIVE are certainly clogging up the front page.

    what

    Spectrum on
    XNnw6Gk.jpg
  • RainfallRainfall Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    When you've got four phalla recruitment threads and four old game threads up it takes up the top half of the page. It's annoying.

    It's just as annoying as the main page being clogged by PbP threads that you don't use. CF could have a lot more discussion than it does if the main page wasn't totally clogged by stuff that a limited number of people can post in.

    It's not like it's a gigantic OMFG issue, but it's a problem and it's annoying to people who aren't posting in those threads. I wouldn't mind seeing it cut down.

    Rainfall on
  • Gandalf_the_CrazedGandalf_the_Crazed Vigilo ConfidoRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I think her point is that any old Phalla thread which is still active is only still active because there is not a new one to replace it yet. The number of active Phalla threads is more or less a constant -- if anything, it dips below the allowance more often than anything else.

    Gandalf_the_Crazed on
    PEUsig_zps56da03ec.jpg
  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    why is making a sub-forum for all games off the table?

    streever on
  • samurai6966samurai6966 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Rainfall wrote: »
    When you've got four phalla recruitment threads and four old game threads up it takes up the top half of the page. It's annoying.

    It's just as annoying as the main page being clogged by PbP threads that you don't use. CF could have a lot more discussion than it does if the main page wasn't totally clogged by stuff that a limited number of people can post in.

    It's not like it's a gigantic OMFG issue, but it's a problem and it's annoying to people who aren't posting in those threads. I wouldn't mind seeing it cut down.

    Well, you see, all those PbP threads you don't like, someone does. So you can't just cut them down. I have no problem with navigating CF right now. While I wouldn't mind a few changes, I don't think there is a real big problem here unless CF is the reason the forums keep going down and/or slow down.

    samurai6966 on
  • EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You mean it's annoying to some people who aren't posting in those threads. There's plenty of understandable reasons why people might want it cut down, but I've personally never had a problem navigating the forum, even at its busiest. Then again, I kinda like browsing other people's games.

    And I don't think a single-thread rule for PbP's would be insurmountable, but I can appreciate that it might take time to adjust.

    Edcrab on
    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies drinking coffee in the mountain cabinRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Rainfall wrote: »
    CF could have a lot more discussion than it does if the main page wasn't totally clogged by stuff that a limited number of people can post in.

    I don't buy this at all. I think if you took out the PbP and Phalla threads entirely we wouldn't see any significant increase in other threads in this forum. If a thread died and it wasn't on the main page, it's possible it died because not many people wanted to post in it, not because it wasn't on the main page.

    Powerpuppies on
    sig.gif
  • samurai6966samurai6966 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Rainfall wrote: »
    CF could have a lot more discussion than it does if the main page wasn't totally clogged by stuff that a limited number of people can post in.

    I don't buy this at all. I think if you took out the PbP and Phalla threads entirely we wouldn't see any significant increase in other threads in this forum. If a thread died and it wasn't on the main page, it's possible it died because not many people wanted to post in it, not because it wasn't on the main page.

    The quickness of this thread can also be a factor in the killing of some threads. Here what I think might work

    -Main Page
    Phalla- 1 main, 2-3 minis, games locked after 3 days of ending.
    Recruitment/OOC threads. They should be together as one thread.
    RPG/Board game discussion/interest threads.

    -Subforums
    IC threads
    Old OOC threads that are over (if you can move them.)

    Any thoughts?

    samurai6966 on
  • PygmalionPygmalion Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I set the computer up to take regular screenshots of the front page throughout the night as I slept. I have reviewed these now that I have had a spare moment.

    Thoughts:
    -The problem is real. The open Discussion threads are getting drowned by relatively restricted PbP OOC/IC game threads.
    -Phalla is not an issue. Leave it as it is, limited to ~four threads. (I don't play Phalla)
    -Combining OOC & IC is awkward and unnecessary. (I play & will presently run PbP)
    -My preferred solution for PbP remains a subforum "Play-by-Post Office" for PbP OOC and IC threads with recruitment threads in the main page.
    -I do not see an issue that would preclude such a subforum except for the OP putting it off-the-table without explanation. The subforum would be clearly linked to the main forum by recruitment posts and thus would not be isolated. Is there some technical limitation of which I'm not aware?

    I now have nothing useful to say further on the subject. Do as you please, you wild hedonists.

    Pygmalion on
  • mightyspacepopemightyspacepope Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I would be all for a chat-style thread for CF. It's relatively difficult to get discussion going for games that aren't D&D or White Wolf, so an all-purpose RPG thread might be interesting/sustainable.

    mightyspacepope on
  • samurai6966samurai6966 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I would be all for a chat-style thread for CF. It's relatively difficult to get discussion going for games that aren't D&D or White Wolf, so an all-purpose RPG thread might be interesting/sustainable.

    Thats a users-base problem. People will talk about what interest them. So D&D and White Wolf might be what people want to talk about. However, I'm a lurker (and a CF whore) and I read almost every thread's OP here. If they interest me, I will comment and follow that thread. If not, I go on.

    samurai6966 on
  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hey,

    on a second thought

    I encourage anyone who thinks that threads "aren't noticed" to take a second and look down all 4 pages

    Except posts that really belong in 4e discussion, even threads with only 7 replies have hundreds of page views (200+)

    (there is, I think, 1 exception)

    So, what is the real problem here?

    The threads are read. I think it's a safe bet that the interest level is low if they have 500 views & under 20 responses.

    Personally I have no problem following threads. I simply use my subscriptions folder.

    The other thought is, of course 4e is wildly more popular here: the reason I started posting in here was because of the PA focus on 4e.

    If Gabe & Tycho devoted the same attention to another game you'd see it's numbers jump, too, but I'd bet a lot of active posters in here first started posting for the same reason as me.

    streever on
  • warbanwarban Who the Hoof do you think we are? Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Pygmalion wrote: »
    On the Main Page -
    -Discussion &c Threads
    -PbP Recruitment Threads
    -Phalla (Main+3) Threads

    In "Play-by-Post Office" subforum -
    -PbP OOC Threads
    -PbP IC Threads

    +1 I really like this idea. I don't really have too much to add beyond this outline.

    Edit:
    rainfall wrote:
    Having OOC and IC threads in a subforum, with recruitment on the main page, would be really nice. It would be my optimal solution, really. But then we're stuck with the problem of a front page that ISN'T active, which is perhaps worse than an overly-active front page.

    On the Main Page -
    -PbP Recruitment Thread / Chat Thread?

    What about having a re-recruitment chat thread on the main page for PBP? I know that with phalla hosts would use the signup thread to announce their game, which helped with not missing out on the phalla games which were hosted on D&D and the like.

    Should there be a master recruitment sticky for PBP? (If PBP gets a sub forum)

    warban on
    ACE ✰ PONY ✰ DETECTIVE!
  • cytorakcytorak Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    warban wrote: »
    Pygmalion wrote: »
    On the Main Page -
    -Discussion &c Threads
    -PbP Recruitment Threads
    -Phalla (Main+3) Threads

    In "Play-by-Post Office" subforum -
    -PbP OOC Threads
    -PbP IC Threads

    +1 I really like this idea. I don't really have too much to add beyond this outline.

    I like this idea as well. It'll keep things tidy without totally destroying CF.

    cytorak on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited August 2009
    I am all for combined IC/OOC threads and found the one I ran worked fine. The front page does, in my opinion, feel clogged with threads I know I can't post in (though I might enjoy popping in to read them) and thinning them out is cool beans with me. I usually sort of glaze over when I bring up the first page of CF, instantly homing in on threads I'm already posting in and ignoring anything else unless it really jumps out at me (or if it's the new 4E general thread).

    Dunno about phallas, as I don't read or participate in them.

    Bogart on
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    If a game doesnt have a high amount of ooc talk thats fine, sure. My games have fairly active IC and OOC threads. They have been that way for a long time. The IC/OOC thread is a part of the culture here...

    This pretty much throws a fairly large wrench in a game that does use them, and for what? More than likely, a lot more gray dots on the front page?

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I am running a IC/OOC combo.

    I don't want to see it forced on anyone though.

    I'd be happy with a OOC in CF, IC in subforum thing, and if that happened I'd probably split my own game to fit that actually.

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
  • Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I subscribe to any threads that matter to me, so the speed the front page moves doesn't matter to me at all.

    Most of the BSG games are linked in the BSG thread.

    Most of the PBP board games are linked in the Board Game thread.

    Most of the phalla signups are linked in the Signup thread.

    Anything else I happen to catch on the front page is just luck, but I only ever look at the main CF forum page when i click the "critical failures" shortcut on my browser.

    So honestly, I don't really care how this ends up going, but I am told that making a phalla sub-forum would make it so we never get any new blood in phalla, since no one ever checks sub forums apparently.

    Orange Soda on
  • Super NamicchiSuper Namicchi Orange County, CARegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    just glancing at the idea, the pbp ic/ooc subforum with another forum for recruitment is pretty much exactly how RPGnet's pbp section works

    and it works well

    i mean to echo the other posters i haven't seen a problem, but i follow a limited number of threads anyway (the games i'm participating in, magic thread, plus a couple other misc threads)

    but yeah, putting the IC/OOC threads in a subforum wouldn't kill any activity if you kept the Recruitment in the main forum. why it's not an option i don't know

    what i don't think is AT ALL desirable is mashing IC/OOC together. the IC threads of so many games i participate in have a seamless flow of narrative that is easy to read, and throwing the OOC chatter in with that would just make it a headache to navigate to find specific rulings or events that happened previously

    Super Namicchi on
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    To add my voice in here:

    1) Yes, the problem is real. Really, really real. I never would have found Rainfall's Eclipse Phase thread if I hadn't accidentally stumbled upon it while searching for another discussion thread (the Rogue Trader thread) which had sunk deep into the marshes of page three.

    And it's an excellent game that I had no idea existed. I would have missed it.

    2) I'm all in favour of a purely IC subforum, linked to OOC threads in the main CF forum. IC threads are literally the only threads which don't need new people to thrive, and have close to zero interest to outsiders. At least, not until they've read a summary and some of the initial discussion in the recruitment/OOC thread to see if it's the kind of thing they like.

    3) Keeping the Recruitment/OOC threads around on the main CF page would definitely help new members understand what the PbP component of CF is about, and help them find the kind of thing they're interested in. I think that's pretty important. I think that it's useful to let Recruitment threads keep the option to turn into OOC threads, because the discussion often seems to be the richer for it.

    Plus, I think it's important that people still feel the PbP games are part of the culture and community here. Keeping the OOC threads around here should do that.

    4) I know Exigency would have been only half as fun without the knowledge that we had that complete freedom of discussion in the OOC without clogging up the roleplay of the game itself. This is especially true in homebrew games where the system is still being hammered out and the rules need in-depth discussion, and it would be a real shame to adopt a stance that cripples homebrew stuff.

    5) Other threads - game discussion, phalla - thrive on their ability to bob around on the front page and participate in the general CF culture. I think each would stagnate and die if cordoned off from the main CF forum in the same way IC could be without any trouble.

    6) If it's possible to extend the main CF page by even five threads, that would probably help. Not sure what other factors influence that, though. And it's definitely not much help on its own.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • edited August 2009
    This content has been removed.

  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I really like the idea of putting the pbp games in another subforum but keeping the [recruitment] threads here.

    I also support making a thread that indexes games and discussion threads, by game/company, and serves as a general CF discussion thread.

    Edith Upwards on
  • Orange SodaOrange Soda Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Erich Zahn wrote: »
    I really like the idea of putting the pbp games in another subforum but keeping the [recruitment] threads here.

    I also support making a thread that indexes games and discussion threads, by game/company, and serves as a general CF discussion thread.

    I can't believe I'm agreeing with EZ :P This sounds like a good idea.

    Orange Soda on
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Erich Zahn wrote: »
    I also support making a thread that indexes games and discussion threads, by game/company, and serves as a general CF discussion thread.

    It's a nice idea in principle, but ironically that's kind of duplicating the purpose of the main CF board in the first place. And it'd be really difficult to keep accurately updated.

    In reality I think it would either turn into a poorly-updated chat thread, or a huge, messy listing that noone really wants to wade through.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • Edith UpwardsEdith Upwards Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Erich Zahn wrote: »
    I also support making a thread that indexes games and discussion threads, by game/company, and serves as a general CF discussion thread.

    It's a nice idea in principle, but ironically that's kind of duplicating the purpose of the main CF board in the first place. And it'd be really difficult to keep accurately updated.

    In reality I think it would either turn into a poorly-updated chat thread, or a huge, messy listing that noone really wants to wade through.

    I just need a thread where I can bitch about the lack of THIS.

    Edith Upwards on
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    That's a valid point.

    Giant snakes are always a valid point.

    Zetetic Elench on
    nemosig.png
  • HorseshoeHorseshoe Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Thanatos wrote: »
    So, anyhow, this forum is moving quite a bit faster thread-wise than it used to. We would like to be able to pack more onto the front page. That being said, we're considering the following changes:

    *Reducing the number of threads allowed per play-by-post to one
    *Reducing the number of Phallas allowed to one main, and two minis again
    *Creating a Phalla subforum

    We're strongly leaning towards the first two options. We would give currently-running games a two-week grace period to figure out how they want to combine stuff, and they would be allowed to make a new thread (locking the old ones). Does anyone have any other input/suggestions? And no, a PbP subforum isn't an option.

    My two cents:

    I didn't know there was a problem until this thread started. Does CF really move faster than other forums? What's on the front page really isn't bothering me, even if there's quite a few threads on it that I'm not going to read because they happen to be games I'm not playing in.

    I really like having the option to have IC and OOC threads. Some people run their games this way, others don't... I like GM's being able to run their PbP games how they like. I've been running a split thread Star Wars game for almost two years now... I'd probably end up killing it if I had to combine the threads. It would make it a bit too cumbersome for me to run my own game.

    Phallas aren't my thing, but it doesn't bother me that they're on the front page. It keeps people coming into the forum and finding out new stuff and that's cool.

    IIRC we passed on the Phalla subforum before and I'm not sure why it would be a different or more appealing idea now.

    Horseshoe on
    dmsigsmallek3.jpg
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I really don't think Phalla affects CF much at all, certainly not to the point of it warranting a subforum. At any given day, it seems like the main page is 75% D&D threads.

    And personally, I prefer having IC/OOC threads separate.


    If anything, I think D&D warrants a subforum.

    But I also agree with the above: I don't think there's much problem as it is.

    cj iwakura on
    z48g7weaopj2.png
This discussion has been closed.