All I can say is, the Ace Attorney localizations are excellent and can't imagine enjoying them as much as I do if it wasn't for all the "westernized" jokes and references.
That and Woolsey's Final Fantasy Translations are proof that going for a more "correct" translation doesn't always mean it will be better. I've played a fan translation of VI and found it awful. There was no charm to it. It was literal to a fault and worse off for it.
The big example they always use was the Big Top Circus case, where it was entirely colloquial and would make no sense at all without a decent translation team. Sure, the miracle never happen, but we also got Moe, who for better or for worse was pulled off decently. Even if he was annoying.
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
When it comes to names I almost always prefer them to be changed to more "western" names. Or at the least smaller/simpler Japanese names. Why? Simply, and honestly, I have a a hard time pronouncing Japanese names. Which makes it a bit hard to care about characters when I can't even name them. There is one exception I make, if the game takes place explicitly in Japan (or Asia in general) for instance then sure it makes sense. I mean it would be weird leading the Tokugawa clan to victory with Generals named Marcus, Dominic, or Bob.
I think Vagrant Story is probably one of the best translation I have ever seen for a game.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Not arguing. Just sayin' that it's not some weird fringe craziness but actually the original official spelling on promotional shiznizzle and whatnot.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
When it comes to names I almost always prefer them to be changed to more "western" names. Or at the least smaller/simpler Japanese names. Why? Simply, and honestly, I have a a hard time pronouncing Japanese names. Which makes it a bit hard to care about characters when I can't even name them. There is one exception I make, if the game takes place explicitly in Japan (or Asia in general) for instance then sure it makes sense. I mean it would be weird leading the Tokugawa clan to victory with Generals named Marcus, Dominic, or Bob.
Also, something that came to mind, Enix USA did an absolutely stellar job rewriting significant bits of the original Valkyrie Profile for the west. Tri-Ace got their Norse mythology totally fucked up, and decided to cast Lezard as a DEEP VOICED COOL GUY with Brahms as a crazed ghoul.
Anyway, I'm reading the TVTropes on Woolseyisms, and there are some franchises that gained stuff through translation. Stuff like the Samurai Pizza Cats writers only getting raw footage and having to make up new scripts entirely.
When it comes to names I almost always prefer them to be changed to more "western" names. Or at the least smaller/simpler Japanese names. Why? Simply, and honestly, I have a a hard time pronouncing Japanese names. Which makes it a bit hard to care about characters when I can't even name them. There is one exception I make, if the game takes place explicitly in Japan (or Asia in general) for instance then sure it makes sense. I mean it would be weird leading the Tokugawa clan to victory with Generals named Marcus, Dominic, or Bob.
Also, something that came to mind, Enix USA did an absolutely stellar job rewriting significant bits of the original Valkyrie Profile for the west. Tri-Ace got their Norse mythology totally fucked up, and decided to cast Lezard as a DEEP VOICED COOL GUY with Brahms as a crazed ghoul.
Ugh. Really? I may not prefer Japanese names, but like I said above, when the game is set firmly in Japan then keep them.
I call her, now and forever, Aeris. Aerith sounds like I have a lithp. Plus I always thought that Aeris was an allusion* to the Goddess Eris. Why they went with the Goddess of Crazy I do not know, but figured the Japanese were not up on their Greek Pantheon. Now of course, I know it was supposed to be Aerith and that it was in reference to the Earth. Still, if people want their "Son of a Submariner" why can't I have Aeris?
*
Use your Allusion
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
The best localizations are when you don't even notice it at all or even think of it being translated/localized in the first place. Such as the Paper Marios or the Mario/Luigi RPG series.
They both have insanely good localization and it's not something that really gets much credit because I suspect that because it's so good people don't even realize or consider it.
Not arguing. Just sayin' that it's not some weird fringe craziness but actually the original official spelling on promotional shiznizzle and whatnot.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
Oh, believe me, I know the weirdness of Japanese trying to write in English.
To say nothing of Type-Moon's crimes against the language.
Although GA is a funny example, because all the English localizations of other stuff (anime and comic) have been remarkably godawful where it's clear that the English folks had absolutely zero contact with any of the Japanese stuff and as a result, almost every name has just been phonetically transliterated. In a couple cases, the Japanese even showed more facility with English than Broccoli USA did.
What really caught me by surprise was how much work actually goes into translating something. It's not just taking the script and changing the language, things have to be changed to make sense in a cultural context. I know the Japanese just love word play, and that would be completely lost on us if it was translated.
I've been doing a bit of manzai/konto translation lately, and you really have to stretch what the comedians are saying in order for it to become funny in English. Usually I'll write the translation down on one day, while listening to the Japanese, and then pick it up a few days later and rewrite it without referencing the source material. Then, after I apply the subtitles, I do a final check to make sure there are no internal consistency problems and don't worry so much about the translation being 100 percent accurate.
But, I do understand why it would drive a bilingual crazy to look at something like this:
Part of the problem for me is that the Wheaties joke isn't funny. Also, being forced to literally look at them both at once, with normal Japanese and video-game English, anybody is going to prefer the Japanese version. (EDIT: Obviously, they don't say the same thing) I think the only Japanese game I prefer to play in English is Metal Gear Solid, and that has more to do with me associating David Hayter with Snake's voice than anything else. English localization is far worse than the original Japanese scripts without a single exception. Translation always degrades and/or distorts the original. It's unavoidable. For what it's worth, the reason I don't play Phoenix Wright is that I don't want to ruin my memories of Gyakuten Saiban by seeing how they distorted it to fit western culture (and, from what i hear, I'm sure it's a great localization). For example, the reason why there is a trial by Jury in Gyakuten Saiban 4 is because in Japan, right now, the Jury system has just begun to become adopted and the creator really wanted to add it into the game.
Japanese naming systems simply don't make sense in English. Usually Japanese developers do have official romaniziations of the character names, which are promptly ignored in localization for being absolutely ridiculous. Japanese names are written with Chinese characters, so often in a video game the characters will be given names with kanji that fit their personality, but have an odd-reading and don't really exist even in Japanese.
Of course, I think the same applies in reverse too. Reading a Shakespeare in Japanese isn't exactly terribly rewarding. Rachet and Clank certainly was a lot better English. The subtitling on GTA games fails to capture any of the essence of the characters at all. Japanese movie dubs generally make me shudder. The Simpsons in Japanese isn't really horrible (and now I do watch in Japanese just for variety), but the English cast is obviously vastly superior.
Not arguing. Just sayin' that it's not some weird fringe craziness but actually the original official spelling on promotional shiznizzle and whatnot.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
Actually they spell it Cefca. Which to us seems like it'd be pronounce 'Seff-sa' but I'm sure they were going for hard Cs. Just a guess.
I've been doing a bit of manzai/konto translation lately, and you really have to stretch what the comedians are saying in order for it to become funny in English. Usually I'll write the translation down on one day, while listening to the Japanese, and then pick it up a few days later and rewrite it without referencing the source material. Then, after I apply the subtitles, I do a final check to make sure there are no internal consistency problems and don't worry so much about the translation being 100 percent accurate.
But, I do understand why it would drive a bilingual crazy to look at something like this:
Part of the problem for me is that the Wheaties joke isn't funny. Also, being forced to literally look at them both at once, with normal Japanese and video-game English, anybody is going to prefer the Japanese version. (EDIT: Obviously, they don't say the same thing) I think the only Japanese game I prefer to play in English is Metal Gear Solid, and that has more to do with me associating David Hayter with Snake's voice than anything else. English localization is far worse than the original Japanese scripts without a single exception. Translation always degrades and/or distorts the original. It's unavoidable. For what it's worth, the reason I don't play Phoenix Wright is that I don't want to ruin my memories of Gyakuten Saiban by seeing how they distorted it to fit western culture (and, from what i hear, I'm sure it's a great localization). For example, the reason why there is a trial by Jury in Gyakuten Saiban 4 is because in Japan, right now, the Jury system has just begun to become adopted and the creator really wanted to add it into the game.
Japanese naming systems simply don't make sense in English. Usually Japanese developers do have official romaniziations of the character names, which are promptly ignored in localization for being absolutely ridiculous. Japanese names are written with Chinese characters, so often in a video game the characters will be given names with kanji that fit their personality, but have an odd-reading and don't really exist even in Japanese.
Of course, I think the same applies in reverse too. Reading a Shakespeare in Japanese isn't exactly terribly rewarding. Rachet and Clank certainly was a lot better English. The subtitling on GTA games fails to capture any of the essence of the characters at all. Japanese movie dubs generally make me shudder. The Simpsons in Japanese isn't really horrible (and now I do watch in Japanese just for variety), but the English cast is obviously vastly superior.
I really can't agree with you here. Translation is not that bad.
I've been doing a bit of manzai/konto translation lately, and you really have to stretch what the comedians are saying in order for it to become funny in English. Usually I'll write the translation down on one day, while listening to the Japanese, and then pick it up a few days later and rewrite it without referencing the source material. Then, after I apply the subtitles, I do a final check to make sure there are no internal consistency problems and don't worry so much about the translation being 100 percent accurate.
But, I do understand why it would drive a bilingual crazy to look at something like this:
Part of the problem for me is that the Wheaties joke isn't funny. Also, being forced to literally look at them both at once, with normal Japanese and video-game English, anybody is going to prefer the Japanese version. (EDIT: Obviously, they don't say the same thing) I think the only Japanese game I prefer to play in English is Metal Gear Solid, and that has more to do with me associating David Hayter with Snake's voice than anything else. English localization is far worse than the original Japanese scripts without a single exception. Translation always degrades and/or distorts the original. It's unavoidable. For what it's worth, the reason I don't play Phoenix Wright is that I don't want to ruin my memories of Gyakuten Saiban by seeing how they distorted it to fit western culture (and, from what i hear, I'm sure it's a great localization). For example, the reason why there is a trial by Jury in Gyakuten Saiban 4 is because in Japan, right now, the Jury system has just begun to become adopted and the creator really wanted to add it into the game.
Japanese naming systems simply don't make sense in English. Usually Japanese developers do have official romaniziations of the character names, which are promptly ignored in localization for being absolutely ridiculous. Japanese names are written with Chinese characters, so often in a video game the characters will be given names with kanji that fit their personality, but have an odd-reading and don't really exist even in Japanese.
Of course, I think the same applies in reverse too. Reading a Shakespeare in Japanese isn't exactly terribly rewarding. Rachet and Clank certainly was a lot better English. The subtitling on GTA games fails to capture any of the essence of the characters at all. Japanese movie dubs generally make me shudder. The Simpsons in Japanese isn't really horrible (and now I do watch in Japanese just for variety), but the English cast is obviously vastly superior.
I really can't agree with you here. Translation is not that bad.
I agree with the main point that you will inevitably lose something in translation, no matter how good, but as someone who can't speak Japanese I'll take it over nothing.
I remember how sad I was when all the songs were removed from the English version of Goemon's Great Adventure. Not subtitled, just flat out removed. It killed my interest in that game, as the songs in the first N64 Mystical Ninja were one of my favorite parts.
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Not arguing. Just sayin' that it's not some weird fringe craziness but actually the original official spelling on promotional shiznizzle and whatnot.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
It would be similar to Tolkien's languages (and Old English, too), where "C" is always pronounced with a hard "K" sound, thus "Celeborn" is "Keleborn," etc. It's just that the hard C has fallen out of favor and thus it "looks" wrong to the modern reader.
In any case, I prefer Kefka.
Also, "Terra" is a far better name than Tina. Supposedly they chose Tina because Tina is such a "foreign" name in Japan, but "Terra" works better because it contrasts with "Celes"
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I like when translators convey the meaning and spirit of what is said rather than the direct literal translation
Because often times a direct literal translation makes little to no sense or does not convey the same thing to Westerners, especially colloquialisms and such
Like when Neil Gaiman was translating the script for Princess Mononoke, he came across a line in which someone says "this soup tastes like water." He could have just translated that straight, but instead he asked a Japanese speaker "on a scale of one to ten, how big an insult is that to a Japanese cook?" And the guy answered "ten," so he translated the line to something that conveyed that best to English speakers: "this soup tastes like donkey piss."
Sure that's not the exact line, but it's what is meant by the original line, and that's what's important
Of course there's a place for direct literal translation, but I think that's more for academics and people who are bilingual and such, to preserve the original text as best as possible in other languages. It's not for mass consumption
I like when translators convey the meaning and spirit of what is said rather than the direct literal translation
Because often times a direct literal translation makes little to no sense or does not convey the same thing to Westerners, especially colloquialisms and such
Like when Neil Gaiman was translating the script for Princess Mononoke, he came across a line in which someone says "this soup tastes like water." He could have just translated that straight, but instead he asked a Japanese speaker "on a scale of one to ten, how big an insult is that to a Japanese cook?" And the guy answered "ten," so he translated the line to something that conveyed that best to English speakers: "this soup tastes like donkey piss."
Sure that's not the exact line, but it's what is meant by the original line, and that's what's important
Of course there's a place for direct literal translation, but I think that's more for academics and people who are bilingual and such, to preserve the original text as best as possible in other languages. It's not for mass consumption
That's the whole point. A competent translator will try to adapt the meaning or at least the "purpose" or effect of the original content. He or she will change the text a little in order to convey that meaning, and, when it's a joke or something like that, completely change the text in order to have a resulting joke that makes some sense.
Not only that, but the original content of most JRPGs doesn't seem to be very good anyway... Therefore, the translator can easily improve the form a bit, as long as the content is not substantially changed.
It's a lot harder when you're working with literature, though, because both the meaning and the form are much more important. Then it's the job of the translator to convey the meaning while keeping the form as faithful to the original as possible.
I like when translators convey the meaning and spirit of what is said rather than the direct literal translation
Because often times a direct literal translation makes little to no sense or does not convey the same thing to Westerners, especially colloquialisms and such
Like when Neil Gaiman was translating the script for Princess Mononoke, he came across a line in which someone says "this soup tastes like water." He could have just translated that straight, but instead he asked a Japanese speaker "on a scale of one to ten, how big an insult is that to a Japanese cook?" And the guy answered "ten," so he translated the line to something that conveyed that best to English speakers: "this soup tastes like donkey piss."
Sure that's not the exact line, but it's what is meant by the original line, and that's what's important
Of course there's a place for direct literal translation, but I think that's more for academics and people who are bilingual and such, to preserve the original text as best as possible in other languages. It's not for mass consumption
That's the whole point. A competent translator will try to adapt the meaning or at least the "purpose" or effect of the original content. He or she will change the text a little in order to convey that meaning, and, when it's a joke or something like that, completely change the text in order to have a resulting joke that makes some sense.
Not only that, but the original content of most JRPGs doesn't seem to be very good anyway... Therefore, the translator can easily improve the form a bit, as long as the content is not substantially changed.
It's a lot harder when you're working with literature, though, because both the meaning and the form are much more important. Then it's the job of the translator to convey the meaning while keeping the form as faithful to the original as possible.
Yeah, I was gonna say something like this too, but I was afraid I'd get yelled at by people with bad taste
A good example of that is Final Fantasy XII, though. I don't think the original had the Victorian/Shakespearean/whatever feel that the English translation had
I think River City Ransom having jeans and T-shirts is way cooler than the school uniforms in the Japanese version. I was bummed when the remake went back to the uniforms
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I like when translators convey the meaning and spirit of what is said rather than the direct literal translation
Because often times a direct literal translation makes little to no sense or does not convey the same thing to Westerners, especially colloquialisms and such
Like when Neil Gaiman was translating the script for Princess Mononoke, he came across a line in which someone says "this soup tastes like water." He could have just translated that straight, but instead he asked a Japanese speaker "on a scale of one to ten, how big an insult is that to a Japanese cook?" And the guy answered "ten," so he translated the line to something that conveyed that best to English speakers: "this soup tastes like donkey piss."
Sure that's not the exact line, but it's what is meant by the original line, and that's what's important
Of course there's a place for direct literal translation, but I think that's more for academics and people who are bilingual and such, to preserve the original text as best as possible in other languages. It's not for mass consumption
That's the whole point. A competent translator will try to adapt the meaning or at least the "purpose" or effect of the original content. He or she will change the text a little in order to convey that meaning, and, when it's a joke or something like that, completely change the text in order to have a resulting joke that makes some sense.
Not only that, but the original content of most JRPGs doesn't seem to be very good anyway... Therefore, the translator can easily improve the form a bit, as long as the content is not substantially changed.
It's a lot harder when you're working with literature, though, because both the meaning and the form are much more important. Then it's the job of the translator to convey the meaning while keeping the form as faithful to the original as possible.
Yeah, I was gonna say something like this too, but I was afraid I'd get yelled at by people with bad taste
A good example of that is Final Fantasy XII, though. I don't think the original had the Victorian/Shakespearean/whatever feel that the English translation had
This is why most of the NPCs in the Lunar games spout random(albeit humorous) commentary. In the original game, they were dull and repetitious. Working Designs made them worth talking to, like their actual dialogue or not.
Chrono Trigger's original script was fantastic. I mean just incredible, even over FFVI. I'd say it was way beyond what you'd expect from the era, but then Super Mario RPG comes to mind as well.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
The Lunar games define that for me, since they had great voice over work to match, which was even rarer. I'd never played an RPG with spoken dialogue before that.
I pretty much bought any system that I knew WD would support. That's why I got a Saturn instead of the N64.
Chrono Trigger's original script was fantastic. I mean just incredible, even over FFVI. I'd say it was way beyond what you'd expect from the era, but then Super Mario RPG comes to mind as well.
Squeenix's CT DS translation was pretty good, but again lost a lot of woolsey's charm.
I mean, they changed "All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief. At least for now..."
The one really good thing was they changed Frog's speech patterns, which I didn't agree with the liberties woolsey took there.
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I thought CT DS' retranslation was really good. It added an extra layer of maturity to the plot, and improved on what Woolsey did rather than wrecking it.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Well, seeing as the US version took out the move where Gene gets down on his knees, begs for mercy, and is hit by a water tub that falls from the sky and knocks the enemy level down, maybe moreso?
Edit: on the plus side, we traded that for the Head Slicer, so maybe we came out... a head in that deal.
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AJRSome guy who wrestlesNorwichRegistered Userregular
Didn't God Hand have only english voice overs, even for the japanese version? I think the only ones who spoke in japanese were the samurai enemies. I feel a lot of the humor would be lost if you don't get the voice acting because it's just so absurd and out there.
The best localizations are when you don't even notice it at all or even think of it being translated/localized in the first place. Such as the Paper Marios or the Mario/Luigi RPG series.
They both have insanely good localization and it's not something that really gets much credit because I suspect that because it's so good people don't even realize or consider it.
Not arguing. Just sayin' that it's not some weird fringe craziness but actually the original official spelling on promotional shiznizzle and whatnot.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
It would be similar to Tolkien's languages (and Old English, too), where "C" is always pronounced with a hard "K" sound, thus "Celeborn" is "Keleborn," etc. It's just that the hard C has fallen out of favor and thus it "looks" wrong to the modern reader.
In any case, I prefer Kefka.
Also, "Terra" is a far better name than Tina. Supposedly they chose Tina because Tina is such a "foreign" name in Japan, but "Terra" works better because it contrasts with "Celes"
I'm not sure I really agree with that, given that the symbolism would fly over the heads of 99% of the audience. Anyway, Terra is a bad name because the FF universe already had an established character with that name when FF6 was first released.
Not arguing. Just sayin' that it's not some weird fringe craziness but actually the original official spelling on promotional shiznizzle and whatnot.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
It would be similar to Tolkien's languages (and Old English, too), where "C" is always pronounced with a hard "K" sound, thus "Celeborn" is "Keleborn," etc. It's just that the hard C has fallen out of favor and thus it "looks" wrong to the modern reader.
In any case, I prefer Kefka.
Also, "Terra" is a far better name than Tina. Supposedly they chose Tina because Tina is such a "foreign" name in Japan, but "Terra" works better because it contrasts with "Celes"
I'm not sure I really agree with that, given that the symbolism would fly over the heads of 99% of the audience.
Not arguing. Just sayin' that it's not some weird fringe craziness but actually the original official spelling on promotional shiznizzle and whatnot.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
It would be similar to Tolkien's languages (and Old English, too), where "C" is always pronounced with a hard "K" sound, thus "Celeborn" is "Keleborn," etc. It's just that the hard C has fallen out of favor and thus it "looks" wrong to the modern reader.
In any case, I prefer Kefka.
Also, "Terra" is a far better name than Tina. Supposedly they chose Tina because Tina is such a "foreign" name in Japan, but "Terra" works better because it contrasts with "Celes"
I'm not sure I really agree with that, given that the symbolism would fly over the heads of 99% of the audience. Anyway, Terra is a bad name because the FF universe already had an established character with that name when FF6 was first released.
So wait, two people can't have the same name? What about Cid, Vicks/Biggs and Wedge?
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The best localizations are when you don't even notice it at all or even think of it being translated/localized in the first place. Such as the Paper Marios or the Mario/Luigi RPG series.
They both have insanely good localization and it's not something that really gets much credit because I suspect that because it's so good people don't even realize or consider it.
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The big example they always use was the Big Top Circus case, where it was entirely colloquial and would make no sense at all without a decent translation team. Sure, the miracle never happen, but we also got Moe, who for better or for worse was pulled off decently. Even if he was annoying.
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I think Vagrant Story is probably one of the best translation I have ever seen for a game.
The day I trust japanese game designers to write the official english names is the day I believe Cefka is correct. They still write "It is a title screen. Something pushes a button." And they expect me to believe in Cefka?! I think not good sir!
From a language standpoint I also don't accept it. Cefka just looks really weird and I keep pronouncing it like Seff-ka. The Ce makes me think of pronouncing celery. Or celebration.
Excuse me, I think you mean Azure Dragon, Scorpio, and Red Minotaur.
Also, something that came to mind, Enix USA did an absolutely stellar job rewriting significant bits of the original Valkyrie Profile for the west. Tri-Ace got their Norse mythology totally fucked up, and decided to cast Lezard as a DEEP VOICED COOL GUY with Brahms as a crazed ghoul.
Anyway, I'm reading the TVTropes on Woolseyisms, and there are some franchises that gained stuff through translation. Stuff like the Samurai Pizza Cats writers only getting raw footage and having to make up new scripts entirely.
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Ugh. Really? I may not prefer Japanese names, but like I said above, when the game is set firmly in Japan then keep them.
I call her, now and forever, Aeris. Aerith sounds like I have a lithp. Plus I always thought that Aeris was an allusion* to the Goddess Eris. Why they went with the Goddess of Crazy I do not know, but figured the Japanese were not up on their Greek Pantheon. Now of course, I know it was supposed to be Aerith and that it was in reference to the Earth. Still, if people want their "Son of a Submariner" why can't I have Aeris?
*
They both have insanely good localization and it's not something that really gets much credit because I suspect that because it's so good people don't even realize or consider it.
Oh, believe me, I know the weirdness of Japanese trying to write in English.
To say nothing of Type-Moon's crimes against the language.
Although GA is a funny example, because all the English localizations of other stuff (anime and comic) have been remarkably godawful where it's clear that the English folks had absolutely zero contact with any of the Japanese stuff and as a result, almost every name has just been phonetically transliterated. In a couple cases, the Japanese even showed more facility with English than Broccoli USA did.
Seh-cil is how it's pronounced.
Was it See-cil in the DS version or something?
But, I do understand why it would drive a bilingual crazy to look at something like this:
Part of the problem for me is that the Wheaties joke isn't funny. Also, being forced to literally look at them both at once, with normal Japanese and video-game English, anybody is going to prefer the Japanese version. (EDIT: Obviously, they don't say the same thing) I think the only Japanese game I prefer to play in English is Metal Gear Solid, and that has more to do with me associating David Hayter with Snake's voice than anything else. English localization is far worse than the original Japanese scripts without a single exception. Translation always degrades and/or distorts the original. It's unavoidable. For what it's worth, the reason I don't play Phoenix Wright is that I don't want to ruin my memories of Gyakuten Saiban by seeing how they distorted it to fit western culture (and, from what i hear, I'm sure it's a great localization). For example, the reason why there is a trial by Jury in Gyakuten Saiban 4 is because in Japan, right now, the Jury system has just begun to become adopted and the creator really wanted to add it into the game.
Japanese naming systems simply don't make sense in English. Usually Japanese developers do have official romaniziations of the character names, which are promptly ignored in localization for being absolutely ridiculous. Japanese names are written with Chinese characters, so often in a video game the characters will be given names with kanji that fit their personality, but have an odd-reading and don't really exist even in Japanese.
Of course, I think the same applies in reverse too. Reading a Shakespeare in Japanese isn't exactly terribly rewarding. Rachet and Clank certainly was a lot better English. The subtitling on GTA games fails to capture any of the essence of the characters at all. Japanese movie dubs generally make me shudder. The Simpsons in Japanese isn't really horrible (and now I do watch in Japanese just for variety), but the English cast is obviously vastly superior.
Actually they spell it Cefca. Which to us seems like it'd be pronounce 'Seff-sa' but I'm sure they were going for hard Cs. Just a guess.
I really can't agree with you here. Translation is not that bad.
I agree with the main point that you will inevitably lose something in translation, no matter how good, but as someone who can't speak Japanese I'll take it over nothing.
It would be similar to Tolkien's languages (and Old English, too), where "C" is always pronounced with a hard "K" sound, thus "Celeborn" is "Keleborn," etc. It's just that the hard C has fallen out of favor and thus it "looks" wrong to the modern reader.
In any case, I prefer Kefka.
Also, "Terra" is a far better name than Tina. Supposedly they chose Tina because Tina is such a "foreign" name in Japan, but "Terra" works better because it contrasts with "Celes"
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Because often times a direct literal translation makes little to no sense or does not convey the same thing to Westerners, especially colloquialisms and such
Like when Neil Gaiman was translating the script for Princess Mononoke, he came across a line in which someone says "this soup tastes like water." He could have just translated that straight, but instead he asked a Japanese speaker "on a scale of one to ten, how big an insult is that to a Japanese cook?" And the guy answered "ten," so he translated the line to something that conveyed that best to English speakers: "this soup tastes like donkey piss."
Sure that's not the exact line, but it's what is meant by the original line, and that's what's important
Of course there's a place for direct literal translation, but I think that's more for academics and people who are bilingual and such, to preserve the original text as best as possible in other languages. It's not for mass consumption
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That's the whole point. A competent translator will try to adapt the meaning or at least the "purpose" or effect of the original content. He or she will change the text a little in order to convey that meaning, and, when it's a joke or something like that, completely change the text in order to have a resulting joke that makes some sense.
Not only that, but the original content of most JRPGs doesn't seem to be very good anyway... Therefore, the translator can easily improve the form a bit, as long as the content is not substantially changed.
It's a lot harder when you're working with literature, though, because both the meaning and the form are much more important. Then it's the job of the translator to convey the meaning while keeping the form as faithful to the original as possible.
Yeah, I was gonna say something like this too, but I was afraid I'd get yelled at by people with bad taste
A good example of that is Final Fantasy XII, though. I don't think the original had the Victorian/Shakespearean/whatever feel that the English translation had
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This is why most of the NPCs in the Lunar games spout random(albeit humorous) commentary. In the original game, they were dull and repetitious. Working Designs made them worth talking to, like their actual dialogue or not.
The developer is trying too hard at points and it comes off as overly verbose, but it's a major step up from the original.
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/chrono/chronotrigger.htm
(Er, don't bother reading that. The first page is interesting, the rest is retreading what we all know about CT)
Why people feel the need to mess with what wasn't broken is beyond me.
Go put those efforts to something that's never been released in English, or something that was really butchered, like Shikigami 1.
I pretty much bought any system that I knew WD would support. That's why I got a Saturn instead of the N64.
Squeenix's CT DS translation was pretty good, but again lost a lot of woolsey's charm.
I mean, they changed "All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief. At least for now..."
The one really good thing was they changed Frog's speech patterns, which I didn't agree with the liberties woolsey took there.
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Snatcher, Silent Hill 2, Valkyrie Profile, Shadow Hearts, the man is practically a localization god.
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Well, seeing as the US version took out the move where Gene gets down on his knees, begs for mercy, and is hit by a water tub that falls from the sky and knocks the enemy level down, maybe moreso?
Edit: on the plus side, we traded that for the Head Slicer, so maybe we came out... a head in that deal.
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Have you seen the Japanese ads for God Hand?
Based off nothing else, I’m going to say “yes”.
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Didn't God Hand have only english voice overs, even for the japanese version? I think the only ones who spoke in japanese were the samurai enemies. I feel a lot of the humor would be lost if you don't get the voice acting because it's just so absurd and out there.
I'm not sure I really agree with that, given that the symbolism would fly over the heads of 99% of the audience. Anyway, Terra is a bad name because the FF universe already had an established character with that name when FF6 was first released.
no it wouldn't
So wait, two people can't have the same name? What about Cid, Vicks/Biggs and Wedge?
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