I'm still pissed that they changed the mounts from "grind" to "lollowdroprate"
That's the dumbest thing about the event. Oh well, at least you have the opportunity (infinitesimal though they may be) to get both mounts instead of just the ram, though I'd bet, given the choice, more people would choose to grind for just the ram.
Especially...say...lower level characters that want a ram. Like my fiancee and her druid. She isn't 80 and obviously can't do the event. She IS level 40 so getting an epic ram would be good for her.
but noooooooo.
Also I can't like...master loot it to her or something.
Is the new Onyxia exactly the same as the old one but with slightly higher damage or are there some bigger changes to the fight?
More than slightly higher. Mostly the same, Phases 1 and 3 are pretty much unchanged. Phase 2 is largely the same, Ony takes off, bunch of whelps spawn from either cave, she spits fireballs at random and deep breaths randomly as well (it really is random). The big change (not that it's that big) is that the big adds that you killed on the way in (Onyxian Warders or whatever) spawn every 30s or so during phase 2, giving the melee something to do.
Pretty easy fight overall, we 2-shotted her last night, the first was close but we needed one attempt to remind people that DBs suck, and such.
I was embarrassed. I was the GM/raid leader back at 60 for my guild. No excuse for my incompetence! Well... aside from liberal drinking since it's our guild's normal mode/free loot night.
I was embarrassed. I was the GM/raid leader back at 60 for my guild. No excuse for my incompetence! Well... aside from liberal drinking since it's our guild's normal mode/free loot night.
Last night I tried Ony10 (we couldn't get through phase 2*) and on one of the attempts the priest healer was slightly ahead of me. Ony aggroes, swipes the healer, instant gibbed. So I laugh on Vent, and then we just went with it.
*Getting ahold of all the whelps as the only tank was a little hard for me. Getting all the whelps plus handling the add and watching for deep breath was harder for me. So phase 2 usually resulted in a wipe from people getting overwhelmed by whelps, or getting eaten by the guardian's AoE, or a fun combination of both.
The big change for Ony phase 2 is not the new guard.
It's that melee can't stand under her and attack her anymore. It severly lowers the damage being done to Ony.
Also, the easiest way to deal with whelps in phase 2? Everyone stand on the pally or dk tank. When they come, time for fun!
We did Ony25 with 3 warrior tanks - whelps were.... fun.
I tanked whelps in 10 and 25 on my warrior (and the elites sometimes too, some tanks are lazy I guess). So long as your DPS give the warrior about 3-6 seconds to round all the whelps up it really isn't an issue at all. Thunderclap, shield block, thunderclap, shockwave, giggle.
No, really, its great to thunderclap once and suddenly you're doing serious DPS. Shockwave is basically "everything is stunned and your entire screen is numbers."
The big change for Ony phase 2 is not the new guard.
It's that melee can't stand under her and attack her anymore. It severly lowers the damage being done to Ony.
Also, the easiest way to deal with whelps in phase 2? Everyone stand on the pally or dk tank. When they come, time for fun!
We did Ony25 with 3 warrior tanks - whelps were.... fun.
I tanked whelps in 10 and 25 on my warrior (and the elites sometimes too, some tanks are lazy I guess). So long as your DPS give the warrior about 3-6 seconds to round all the whelps up it really isn't an issue at all. Thunderclap, shield block, thunderclap, shockwave, giggle.
No, really, its great to thunderclap once and suddenly you're doing serious DPS. Shockwave is basically "everything is stunned and your entire screen is numbers."
Getting DPS (especially pug dps) to hold off for those 3-6 seconds is the tricky part, Which is why everyone loves DKs and Pallies for fights with tons of little adds. I still love my warrior tanks for single target tanking though.
Yeah, tried Ony 10 on my priest yesterday. seems to be pretty straightforward, only for some reason, in 4 out of 5 attempts the other healer got killed within the first 10 seconds of the fight. Scratching my head on that one... maybe he got too close to the face? Maybe dps pulled aggro and he got face cleaved? dunno. May be a reasonably competant healer, but I couldn't seem to solo-heal it. Especially while being mobbed by whelps.
How many healers are recommended for Ony 10? 3 for beginners, 2 for advanced?
Yeah, the cleave range is huge and doesn't really have a noticeable animation.
Later dragons were a lot more forgiving for cleave/tail swipe range (although there is plenty of room off to the side if the tank has her in the right spot, melee I can see getting eaten once in awhile, but a healer should never be that close to Ony)
Three healers for a PuG two for a good group. The incoming damage really isn't that big of a threat, any tank that's uncrittable with about 30k unbuffed can MT Onyxia (better stats obviously make things much easier), same with the adds. The new fight, just like the old one, is all about control. If your tanks and DPS and healers can remain coordinated during the dangerous portions of phase 2 the entire fight is a breeze.
There's no enrage timer, so the fight is easier with more healers but, like I said, so long as people are doing their job incoming damage will be low enough that two healers can suffice. Its when you're losing people to adds and need to heal through multiple elites and whelps aren't dying and what the fuck Onyxia is coming down phase 3 phase 3 that things tend to go badly. An extra healer leaves more room for people to be moronic.
PotatoNinja on
Two goats enter, one car leaves
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2009
Ony's hitbox is gigantic, you should be able to melee her from 30 yards or more away from the body.
The cleave range is about 10-20 yards in a frontal cone from her face. And unless they changed how it works, it will also chain. Vaelstraz was notorious for having all the rogues in the raid die because one rogue was too close to the paws.
And as for the whelp groups? Just get the entire raid to stack in front of one of the entrances during the start of phase 2. As a DK, I dropped D&D then picked one to stack my diseases up on, pestilenced the first group, then waited for the other group to get there and pestilence them too + a deathstrike.
Then drop another D&D, empower runic weapon, BB+BB+BB+BB and they are dead.
It's actually one of the few fights where tanks can top damage because they have so many options available to them.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Random note - the two trinkets that ony drops are freaking WEIRD now. The HP5 one is pretty much useless on its own, the MP5 on is meh for healers, but if you have both they might actually be good for dps, effectively 111 (or 125 in 25 man version) static spellpower per trinket slot plus whatever the direct damage proc is.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
A lot of the loot Ony drops now seem like garbage (though some are quite nice). The proc rates on the Gutgore Ripper and Vis'kag are reportedly in the 1% region. Blech.
The cleave range is about 10-20 yards in a frontal cone from her face. And unless they changed how it works, it will also chain. Vaelstraz was notorious for having all the rogues in the raid die because one rogue was too close to the paws.
Vael was notorious for half the raid dying because one person was in the wrong spot. Somehow he cleaves and it hits a priest standing 30 yards behind him after chaining.
Onyxia seems really quite easy and we would have one-shot her just now except for the fact that my connection is awful at the moment and when the whelps appear it just explodes and disconnects me.
Oh, and I was tanking, and that's a pretty bad thing to have happen.
A lot of the loot Ony drops now seem like garbage (though some are quite nice). The proc rates on the Gutgore Ripper and Vis'kag are reportedly in the 1% region. Blech.
Yeah I can't really see someone actually using much or any of the gear that drops. It's not meant as any sort of progression raid, it's meant as a fun little throwback and some extra badges.
Javen on
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HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
A lot of the loot Ony drops now seem like garbage (though some are quite nice). The proc rates on the Gutgore Ripper and Vis'kag are reportedly in the 1% region. Blech.
Yeah I can't really see someone actually using much or any of the gear that drops. It's not meant as any sort of progression raid, it's meant as a fun little throwback and some extra badges.
Oh I know, I don't think it should be bleeding-edge loot either, but really, things like the new OEB are really very nice. And if it's not bleeding-edge loot, it should at least be fairly useful. I mean, when we've got ilevel 219 stuff coming out of H-ToC, it's hard to imagine someone taking some of the statless, abysmal proc rate having stuff Ony drops. Just strange is all.
A lot of the loot Ony drops now seem like garbage (though some are quite nice). The proc rates on the Gutgore Ripper and Vis'kag are reportedly in the 1% region. Blech.
Yeah I can't really see someone actually using much or any of the gear that drops. It's not meant as any sort of progression raid, it's meant as a fun little throwback and some extra badges.
Oh I know, I don't think it should be bleeding-edge loot either, but really, things like the new OEB are really very nice. And if it's not bleeding-edge loot, it should at least be fairly useful. I mean, when we've got ilevel 219 stuff coming out of H-ToC, it's hard to imagine someone taking some of the statless, abysmal proc rate having stuff Ony drops. Just strange is all.
The OEB IS pretty nice actually, because it doesn't have some stupid weapon proc. It's just a lot of stats.
Same with a lot of the caster items. Really good dagger/sword, cloaks too.
A lot of the loot Ony drops now seem like garbage (though some are quite nice). The proc rates on the Gutgore Ripper and Vis'kag are reportedly in the 1% region. Blech.
Yeah I can't really see someone actually using much or any of the gear that drops. It's not meant as any sort of progression raid, it's meant as a fun little throwback and some extra badges.
If you don't have your t9 helm, some of them are quite nicely itemized actually. The warlock 232 helm was a good +50dps upgrade from 8.5 for me.
I just helped a level 1 mage run from the Rebel Camp to Booty Bay, and I did not let him die. I feel like I've done a good deed, though I'm not entirely sure why he'd need to be in Booty Bay.
Vaelstraz was notorious for having all the rogues in the raid die because one rogue was too close to the paws.
I remember the first time I encountered this was corehounds. There was always that one idiot rogue who thought he had to DPS from up the hound's ass. I can still hear our old RL yelling "MAX MELEE RANGE!!"
Vaelstraz was notorious for having all the rogues in the raid die because one rogue was too close to the paws.
I remember the first time I encountered this was corehounds. There was always that one idiot rogue who thought he had to DPS from up the hound's ass. I can still hear our old RL yelling "MAX MELEE RANGE!!"
I remember putting raids on pause for up to an hour until someone would loot that goddamn hound.
Vaelstraz was notorious for having all the rogues in the raid die because one rogue was too close to the paws.
I remember the first time I encountered this was corehounds. There was always that one idiot rogue who thought he had to DPS from up the hound's ass. I can still hear our old RL yelling "MAX MELEE RANGE!!"
I have so many great WoW memories that all seem to be Rogues exploding from something.
Thomamelas on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2009
I think that my favorite thing about Onyxia is that it shows how the exact same mechanics that were a retarded vanilla fight can be used to make a fun fight.
The original 40 man was based on the incompetence of a giant herd of cats and people having poor gear.
The new 10-25 man is about actual coordination.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I think that my favorite thing about Onyxia is that it shows how the exact same mechanics that were a retarded vanilla fight can be used to make a fun fight.
The original 40 man was based on the incompetence of a giant herd of cats and people having poor gear.
Core leather was fucking important for the FR you needed and back then free for all meant any trash dropped epics were goin to whoever looted first because people are dumb. Remember back then you were dealing with probably 10 really good players, 10 great players, and 20 chucklefucks along for the ride for epics.
Opty on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I think that my favorite thing about Onyxia is that it shows how the exact same mechanics that were a retarded vanilla fight can be used to make a fun fight.
The original 40 man was based on the incompetence of a giant herd of cats and people having poor gear.
The new 10-25 man is about actual coordination.
Phase 3 is still fucking stupid.
The fear is absolutely bullshit but it's still a fun fight.
Also bullshit: A big add spawning when Ony lands.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
Especially...say...lower level characters that want a ram. Like my fiancee and her druid. She isn't 80 and obviously can't do the event. She IS level 40 so getting an epic ram would be good for her.
but noooooooo.
Also I can't like...master loot it to her or something.
More than slightly higher. Mostly the same, Phases 1 and 3 are pretty much unchanged. Phase 2 is largely the same, Ony takes off, bunch of whelps spawn from either cave, she spits fireballs at random and deep breaths randomly as well (it really is random). The big change (not that it's that big) is that the big adds that you killed on the way in (Onyxian Warders or whatever) spawn every 30s or so during phase 2, giving the melee something to do.
Pretty easy fight overall, we 2-shotted her last night, the first was close but we needed one attempt to remind people that DBs suck, and such.
It's that melee can't stand under her and attack her anymore. It severly lowers the damage being done to Ony.
Also, the easiest way to deal with whelps in phase 2? Everyone stand on the pally or dk tank. When they come, time for fun!
We did Ony25 with 3 warrior tanks - whelps were.... fun.
I am a freaking nerd.
EDIT:Wait a minute... I think it deleted the symbolic link to my DropBox.... Fuckers!
I was embarrassed. I was the GM/raid leader back at 60 for my guild. No excuse for my incompetence! Well... aside from liberal drinking since it's our guild's normal mode/free loot night.
Last night I tried Ony10 (we couldn't get through phase 2*) and on one of the attempts the priest healer was slightly ahead of me. Ony aggroes, swipes the healer, instant gibbed. So I laugh on Vent, and then we just went with it.
*Getting ahold of all the whelps as the only tank was a little hard for me. Getting all the whelps plus handling the add and watching for deep breath was harder for me. So phase 2 usually resulted in a wipe from people getting overwhelmed by whelps, or getting eaten by the guardian's AoE, or a fun combination of both.
I tanked whelps in 10 and 25 on my warrior (and the elites sometimes too, some tanks are lazy I guess). So long as your DPS give the warrior about 3-6 seconds to round all the whelps up it really isn't an issue at all. Thunderclap, shield block, thunderclap, shockwave, giggle.
No, really, its great to thunderclap once and suddenly you're doing serious DPS. Shockwave is basically "everything is stunned and your entire screen is numbers."
Getting DPS (especially pug dps) to hold off for those 3-6 seconds is the tricky part, Which is why everyone loves DKs and Pallies for fights with tons of little adds. I still love my warrior tanks for single target tanking though.
I am a freaking nerd.
How many healers are recommended for Ony 10? 3 for beginners, 2 for advanced?
Later dragons were a lot more forgiving for cleave/tail swipe range (although there is plenty of room off to the side if the tank has her in the right spot, melee I can see getting eaten once in awhile, but a healer should never be that close to Ony)
I am a freaking nerd.
There's no enrage timer, so the fight is easier with more healers but, like I said, so long as people are doing their job incoming damage will be low enough that two healers can suffice. Its when you're losing people to adds and need to heal through multiple elites and whelps aren't dying and what the fuck Onyxia is coming down phase 3 phase 3 that things tend to go badly. An extra healer leaves more room for people to be moronic.
The cleave range is about 10-20 yards in a frontal cone from her face. And unless they changed how it works, it will also chain. Vaelstraz was notorious for having all the rogues in the raid die because one rogue was too close to the paws.
And as for the whelp groups? Just get the entire raid to stack in front of one of the entrances during the start of phase 2. As a DK, I dropped D&D then picked one to stack my diseases up on, pestilenced the first group, then waited for the other group to get there and pestilence them too + a deathstrike.
Then drop another D&D, empower runic weapon, BB+BB+BB+BB and they are dead.
It's actually one of the few fights where tanks can top damage because they have so many options available to them.
I am a freaking nerd.
Vael was notorious for half the raid dying because one person was in the wrong spot. Somehow he cleaves and it hits a priest standing 30 yards behind him after chaining.
How could you not enjoy it? *SHOCKWAVE* /glee
Oh, and I was tanking, and that's a pretty bad thing to have happen.
Yeah I can't really see someone actually using much or any of the gear that drops. It's not meant as any sort of progression raid, it's meant as a fun little throwback and some extra badges.
The OEB IS pretty nice actually, because it doesn't have some stupid weapon proc. It's just a lot of stats.
Same with a lot of the caster items. Really good dagger/sword, cloaks too.
The gun is good but looks like a gray.
If you don't have your t9 helm, some of them are quite nicely itemized actually. The warlock 232 helm was a good +50dps upgrade from 8.5 for me.
I am a freaking nerd.
Oh yes, of course. Makes perfect sense, actually.
I remember the first time I encountered this was corehounds. There was always that one idiot rogue who thought he had to DPS from up the hound's ass. I can still hear our old RL yelling "MAX MELEE RANGE!!"
I remember putting raids on pause for up to an hour until someone would loot that goddamn hound.
ps: free for all.
Speaking of which, I love that the Onyxia Warders still skin Rugged Leather or hides. Just 10-15 of it, now.
I have so many great WoW memories that all seem to be Rogues exploding from something.
The original 40 man was based on the incompetence of a giant herd of cats and people having poor gear.
The new 10-25 man is about actual coordination.
Phase 3 is still fucking stupid.
The fear is absolutely bullshit but it's still a fun fight.
Also bullshit: A big add spawning when Ony lands.