I remember hitting 80 in the first week of WotLK and going straight to heroics in my green/blue quest gear healing my guild mates just fine (who were still wearing level 70 epics from sunwell but I digress), the first week was a bit rough but I picked up new gear quick enough to be able to relax more and we cleared Naxx 10man about two weeks after the expansion hit. DK tanks were ridiculous.
you had to use it back when we were only just 80
and you had to use it in Ulduar when you were still in all Naxx gear.
the basic principle hasn't changed...once you outgear the instances you no longer need CC
but the outgearing point is reached much faster these days
It wasn't just gear and not being able to take the hits of five mobs at once. It was aside from Paladins, tanks had shitty shitty AoE threat tanking abilities.
Javen on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I didn't mention TBC at all.
I specifically referred to early level 80s, and early Ulduar raids.
I specifically referred to early level 80s, and early Ulduar raids.
But the person you were responding to was. I've run with many leagues of tanks in Wrath and I've never seen one where CC was necessary in heroics. The only time I've ever seen it utilized with any regularity is the trash leading up to Kologarn and Vezax, and that's only in 25 and even then only if you were still fairly new to running those parts. That's it.
It's obvious they wanted to make CC as uneeded as possible, which is why they gave every tank some means of holding onto a theoretical indefinite number of mobs. In Burning Crusade you needed it because of game mechanics and design, not just if your tanks weren't geared enough.
A great example of needing CC is those freaking mind control totem spamming birds in heroic seth, you dont really see that shit anymore in wrath 5's/heroics.
Well, technicaly you can use them. Really though by the time most people start heroics your outgearing it anyway and dont really need it..
I think the only time I had true difficulty in a heroic where we used CC was when wrath launched and my buddys and I just hit 80 and started doing them... Now you go into heroics, type in LFG "Need DPS" and have 1700-2100 meter tards lurking for badges joining, that compleatly overkill any difficulty that would of been there. This may not be the expirience for everybody, but this is at least how its been with me.
Tldr ;;
Undergeared in heroics = Use CC
Overgeared in heroics = Zone out while clicking randomly for the next 24 minutes.
---
Compleatly random side story. A few months back when I got my holy pal up, I just hit 80 and was taken to a heroic UK / OK and AN group. I had 1k healing (after buffs) at the time, and compleatly thought I was going to die as our group lacked any true CC class. Three people apparently turned out to be naxx 25 geared, and they pretty much pranced on through each and every instance without a sweat. - Their presence killed any need for tactic or previous gear requirements to pull through..
Granted karmas a B and the next week I had nothing but fail pugs...
Anyone here hate DK's just making it to heroics who feel the need to toss down DnD when you are still pulling mobs and don't have consecration down yet? I hate them too. Did H DTK (daily) today. Only heroics I do now are the daily for triumph badges. Anyway, first thing I do is ask how comfortable the healer was in her healing. She just said ":)", so off I pull the full hallway. DK doesn't drop DnD until I had enough aggro. Next hallway was the same thing. Seemed after we did the ice boss (forgot name) and before Dred, he didn't want to wait and would drop it literally right after I would either taunt to pull or toss my shield out. Then ask why he was taking a lot of hits "I am not even doing a lot of damage!". I started to get tired of it, had lead and told him next time he dropped it before I attacked I would boot him. Went to Dred, asked group if anyone needed achievement, a lock in group did. Fine, I mount up and pull all the dinos as well as boss. Before I pulled I told the group to stay at the broken wall and wait until I come back. I finish my circle and notice the DK waiting for us in front of the wall. I drop off my mount and see a nice huge ring of red right where I was standing. Enough of this crap, BoP'd his ass and went to town. Here he was "WTF why can I not attack?!" Shammy healer and 2 locks are laughing their ass off while he sits there running in circles. He then proceeds to ask if he can go afk for EIGHT minutes after Dred. I say sure and instantly boot him. Everyone knows you only have 4 minutes of fighting left after Dred before you finish the instance.
Long story short, the DK who said he was going to pull 3.5k dps only pulled 2.1k. The brand new warlock in greens and blues who said their dps was gonna suck was pulling out 2.8k (not bad for brand new) and here I was tall and proud at a nice 3.8k dps as the tank. aoe pulls.
I wish I could access armory from work, or I would tell you where you would want to focus on next for your gear and stats and such. What level is your paladin as of right now?
spec'd prot for the first time ever on my paladin. Ever ever.
im scurred.
i just specced mine prot for the first time since TBC. Very similar gear to yours.
Still got my Hyjal tank ring, Shadowmoon Insignia and Commendation of Kael'thas.
I wish I could access armory from work, or I would tell you where you would want to focus on next for your gear and stats and such. What level is your paladin as of right now?
80.
My biggest upgrades that i need are trinkets and libram.
Saban on
0
turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
Ok, I'm kinda stumped on my ret pally. No matter what I do I cant seem to get my DPS any higher. I'm doing about 2.1-2.3k in heroics and on the odd occasion I manage to get into a raid that goes up to about 2.4k or so. I feel like I should be doing better and it's annoying getting passed by by my guild mates.
Here is an armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&cn=Padaidinn&gn=Vox+Nihili
The point in divine intellect was a miss click on my part so that will be changed next time I'm in town but other than that I could use whatever advice you guys have.
I wish I could access armory from work, or I would tell you where you would want to focus on next for your gear and stats and such. What level is your paladin as of right now?
80.
My biggest upgrades that i need are trinkets and libram.
Ok, I'm kinda stumped on my ret pally. No matter what I do I cant seem to get my DPS any higher. I'm doing about 2.1-2.3k in heroics and on the odd occasion I manage to get into a raid that goes up to about 2.4k or so. I feel like I should be doing better and it's annoying getting passed by by my guild mates.
Here is an armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&cn=Padaidinn&gn=Vox+Nihili
The point in divine intellect was a miss click on my part so that will be changed next time I'm in town but other than that I could use whatever advice you guys have.
Drop your non-dps talents, like your +healing one, you have at least a minimum of 6 that can be tossed elsewhere. Also why no improved blessing of might? Your AP to damage conversion is your greatest strength, and a good portion of the time that might will do more for you than kings will, especialy if your grouped with another paladin who can toss a kingly to ya.
I wish I could access armory from work, or I would tell you where you would want to focus on next for your gear and stats and such. What level is your paladin as of right now?
80.
My biggest upgrades that i need are trinkets and libram.
What happened Saban? I distinctly recall someone scoffing at me after making me my Titansteel Helm and giving me the shield ...? :P
Long story short, the DK who said he was going to pull 3.5k dps only pulled 2.1k. The brand new warlock in greens and blues who said their dps was gonna suck was pulling out 2.8k (not bad for brand new) and here I was tall and proud at a nice 3.8k dps as the tank. aoe pulls.
/end story
/inspect DK
/click talents
/click 'blood'
If he doesn't have 3/3 in "Subversion" and he's OPENING with DnD, he must want to tank. Odds are your consecration + HotR will mean you out-threat the healer so you'll get the mobs when/if he dies (get taunt ready in case).
Make sure you chain-pull so he either can't be rezzed easily, or get's beat down reliably... or just ask him to stop. :P
DK AoE dps isn't the end-all be-all, so he was probably trying to pad his numbers by using DnD early to get the full effect. (his epeen was getting limp) In the end, for rapid-packs of fast dying heroic trash packs, many DKs are at a loss at what to do. Disease ramp-up time + disease duration means they/we have a hard time putting out great numbers if the trash is going down fast. I find that DnD is usually a waste of runes in that situation because stuff dies so fast that a few main strikes is worth it (unless it's a truly massive pull - like a room of 12-15 mobs), but he must have been out of his element (ie - not beating on the ass of a target dummy) and desperate to try and put out more damage.
Vicktor on
Origin: Viycktor
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
what exactly DO DKs do in that situation? fast dying trash...do you just not bother with diseases or what?
on another note, this is my paladin. With that gear, doing some heroics last night I was topping out at about 4.5k TPS on bosses. I feel like it should be higher, but I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong, I was mostly sticking to the 96969 rotation. My threat was also pretty low when AOE tanking, I was kind of acting a bit like my warrior and while keeping Consecrate and HotR going, was tabbing through targets using ShoR to build single target threat. Is that right? I haven't tanked on my paladin since TBC, so I'm kinda new to the whole idea of Wrath tanking on a paladin.
Dhalphir on
0
turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Ok, I'm kinda stumped on my ret pally. No matter what I do I cant seem to get my DPS any higher. I'm doing about 2.1-2.3k in heroics and on the odd occasion I manage to get into a raid that goes up to about 2.4k or so. I feel like I should be doing better and it's annoying getting passed by by my guild mates.
Here is an armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&cn=Padaidinn&gn=Vox+Nihili
The point in divine intellect was a miss click on my part so that will be changed next time I'm in town but other than that I could use whatever advice you guys have.
Drop your non-dps talents, like your +healing one, you have at least a minimum of 6 that can be tossed elsewhere. Also why no improved blessing of might? Your AP to damage conversion is your greatest strength, and a good portion of the time that might will do more for you than kings will, especialy if your grouped with another paladin who can toss a kingly to ya.
I'm going to move that point in divine int over to improved blessing of might, but what would you suggest moving the points from divinity into? As far as I can tell no other talents I can get to would help my DPS. Also if I move the points out of divinity then I wont be able to keep divine sacrifice.
what exactly DO DKs do in that situation? fast dying trash...do you just not bother with diseases or what?
on another note, this is my paladin. With that gear, doing some heroics last night I was topping out at about 4.5k TPS on bosses. I feel like it should be higher, but I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong, I was mostly sticking to the 96969 rotation. My threat was also pretty low when AOE tanking, I was kind of acting a bit like my warrior and while keeping Consecrate and HotR going, was tabbing through targets using ShoR to build single target threat. Is that right? I haven't tanked on my paladin since TBC, so I'm kinda new to the whole idea of Wrath tanking on a paladin.
Armory doesn't show me your BV. I imagine with zero +BV on your gear, it must be pretty low. Smaller ShotRs might be a factor.
Deferring to the flow-chart... #1. Was Righeous Fury turned on? :P
Hamurabi on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2009
I have around 1000 BV without my Libram proc.
and yes, it was turned on. except when I died and did half an instance without it.
on my warrior I pretty much wear zero BV gear, is it different for paladins now, do you actually chase it as a threat stat the way warriors chase expertise?
I have around 1000 BV without my Libram proc.
and yes, it was turned on. except when I died and did half an instance without it.
on my warrior I pretty much wear zero BV gear, is it different for paladins now, do you actually chase it as a threat stat the way warriors chase expertise?
How come you didn't pick up Vindication? With HoTR is basically Demo Shout on 4 mobs without wasting a CD. Also, I think Crusade is still a bigger threat boost than SoTP (I'm still running with 53/18 currently). Threat wise, well I dunno I haven't ran an instance with my paladin lately but I believe I'm doing 6k tps or so.
EDIT: Checking out your gear I say it's lack of Strength. You've actually got more hit and expertise than my paladin so it definitely isn't that.
I have around 1000 BV without my Libram proc.
and yes, it was turned on. except when I died and did half an instance without it.
on my warrior I pretty much wear zero BV gear, is it different for paladins now, do you actually chase it as a threat stat the way warriors chase expertise?
No, not afaik. But the gear has heaps anyway, so you wind up with a decent amount, which helps ShotR. Like, right now, I'm in pretty much just Naxx10, -25, Conquest token and Heroic ToC gear and have ~2k BV with the Libram going.
what exactly DO DKs do in that situation? fast dying trash...do you just not bother with diseases or what?
on another note, this is my paladin. With that gear, doing some heroics last night I was topping out at about 4.5k TPS on bosses. I feel like it should be higher, but I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong, I was mostly sticking to the 96969 rotation. My threat was also pretty low when AOE tanking, I was kind of acting a bit like my warrior and while keeping Consecrate and HotR going, was tabbing through targets using ShoR to build single target threat. Is that right? I haven't tanked on my paladin since TBC, so I'm kinda new to the whole idea of Wrath tanking on a paladin.
DK question:
I try and run unholy presence, get diseases up and spread ASAP, and toss out blood boils and Howling Blasts liberally (if you're blood, I'd assume heart strike due to cleave, and for Unholy- they have better disease AoE anyway). When I can't do either (due to HB CD), I try to use my primary strike (Oblit in this case) and that does pretty well.
Paladin question:
In heroics and Naxx, block value with block cap is something to go for as a nice hybrid threat/mitigation stat (like expertise for warriors, though expertise isn't bad for Paladins either). For main tanking anything that hits really hard (IE T8, T9 content, along with dragons) block is something you'll end up trading for stam, armor, and avoidance.
Strength is the best threat stat by itself, hit is still slightly better than expertise I think with crit coming up in the rear for ratings (although the recent SoV changes gave expertise and crit a bump - some of our major threat moves can miss, but not be parried/dodged, others can't crit but can miss, which is why hit usually winds up higher -it definitely was in 3.1).
For heroics, I run a strength/block set that has alot less stamina and raw avoidance than my 'MT' set but with more str/BV/BR. (Ex: I use an ilvl200 blue block ring and blue block trinket) Stamina isn't as valuable in heroics once you're sitting at ~2K BV with block cap as very little physical damage gets through and you can reduce most of the other stuff with self-cleansing. Bleeds and AoE magic damage are bigger concerns.
Because of the recent SoV change that put more emphasis on the damage from hits after you reach 5-stacks (and less on the DoT tick) I try to focus on tabing around to get the SoV to 5-stacks on all the mobs. This also has an effect of spreading the ShoR damage around, but once you have 5-stack of SoV on all the mobs (remember that HotR can spread and refresh the stacks) HotR is doing some serious AoE damage with the added SoV procs.
Vicktor on
Origin: Viycktor
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I have around 1000 BV without my Libram proc.
and yes, it was turned on. except when I died and did half an instance without it.
on my warrior I pretty much wear zero BV gear, is it different for paladins now, do you actually chase it as a threat stat the way warriors chase expertise?
How come you didn't pick up Vindication? With HoTR is basically Demo Shout on 4 mobs without wasting a CD. Also, I think Crusade is still a bigger threat boost than SoTP (I'm still running with 53/18 currently). Threat wise, well I dunno I haven't ran an instance with my paladin lately but I believe I'm doing 6k tps or so.
EDIT: Checking out your gear I say it's lack of Strength. You've actually got more hit and expertise than my paladin so it definitely isn't that.
since I'm only doing heroics, I decided not to bother with Vindication. I mean, I don't use Demo Shout on my warrior and never have for anything but the hardest hitting raid bosses.
I might respec to the 53/18 spec, SotP was what I chose because I originally respecced for an Ulduar run that never materialise.d
Ok, I'm kinda stumped on my ret pally. No matter what I do I cant seem to get my DPS any higher. I'm doing about 2.1-2.3k in heroics and on the odd occasion I manage to get into a raid that goes up to about 2.4k or so. I feel like I should be doing better and it's annoying getting passed by by my guild mates.
Here is an armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&cn=Padaidinn&gn=Vox+Nihili
The point in divine intellect was a miss click on my part so that will be changed next time I'm in town but other than that I could use whatever advice you guys have.
Drop your non-dps talents, like your +healing one, you have at least a minimum of 6 that can be tossed elsewhere. Also why no improved blessing of might? Your AP to damage conversion is your greatest strength, and a good portion of the time that might will do more for you than kings will, especialy if your grouped with another paladin who can toss a kingly to ya.
I'm going to move that point in divine int over to improved blessing of might, but what would you suggest moving the points from divinity into? As far as I can tell no other talents I can get to would help my DPS. Also if I move the points out of divinity then I wont be able to keep divine sacrifice.
I can't view the armory at work, but this is the spec I use for Ret. Yes there's one point free. I don't care. There is nowhere else I can put it to do any good, in my opinion. Plus, that means I have a free point to pick up Command when the patch drops next month.
I wish I could access armory from work, or I would tell you where you would want to focus on next for your gear and stats and such. What level is your paladin as of right now?
80.
My biggest upgrades that i need are trinkets and libram.
What happened Saban? I distinctly recall someone scoffing at me after making me my Titansteel Helm and giving me the shield ...? :P
Sir i believe you are mistaking me for some other Saban, now please stop harassing me before i call my lawyers.
I wish I could access armory from work, or I would tell you where you would want to focus on next for your gear and stats and such. What level is your paladin as of right now?
80.
My biggest upgrades that i need are trinkets and libram.
Ok, I'm kinda stumped on my ret pally. No matter what I do I cant seem to get my DPS any higher. I'm doing about 2.1-2.3k in heroics and on the odd occasion I manage to get into a raid that goes up to about 2.4k or so. I feel like I should be doing better and it's annoying getting passed by by my guild mates.
Here is an armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&cn=Padaidinn&gn=Vox+Nihili
The point in divine intellect was a miss click on my part so that will be changed next time I'm in town but other than that I could use whatever advice you guys have.
Didn't see anyone mentioning it but you should switch your glyph of exorcism to glyph of seal of vengeance or whatever it was for alliance. Expertise helps much more than just boosting the dmg on single skill.
You should also consider getting the Emblem of triumph libram by doing the heroic daily, probably the biggest upgrade you can get right now.
Ok, I'm kinda stumped on my ret pally. No matter what I do I cant seem to get my DPS any higher. I'm doing about 2.1-2.3k in heroics and on the odd occasion I manage to get into a raid that goes up to about 2.4k or so. I feel like I should be doing better and it's annoying getting passed by by my guild mates.
Here is an armory link http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&cn=Padaidinn&gn=Vox+Nihili
The point in divine intellect was a miss click on my part so that will be changed next time I'm in town but other than that I could use whatever advice you guys have.
Just got home so I can see the armory.
Don't gem for AP or crit. Strength is the way to go, after you get hit capped, which I noticed you're not (8%). Get the heroic badge trinket (Mirror of Truth) to replace the stam one you have. For seals, you're using Corruption/Vengeance on bosses, right?
Other than that, run heroics to get badges and upgrade your armor (do like Noobiest priest said and get the triumph libram, it's fantastic). Good luck!
I have around 1000 BV without my Libram proc.
and yes, it was turned on. except when I died and did half an instance without it.
on my warrior I pretty much wear zero BV gear, is it different for paladins now, do you actually chase it as a threat stat the way warriors chase expertise?
How come you didn't pick up Vindication? With HoTR is basically Demo Shout on 4 mobs without wasting a CD. Also, I think Crusade is still a bigger threat boost than SoTP (I'm still running with 53/18 currently). Threat wise, well I dunno I haven't ran an instance with my paladin lately but I believe I'm doing 6k tps or so.
EDIT: Checking out your gear I say it's lack of Strength. You've actually got more hit and expertise than my paladin so it definitely isn't that.
since I'm only doing heroics, I decided not to bother with Vindication. I mean, I don't use Demo Shout on my warrior and never have for anything but the hardest hitting raid bosses.
I might respec to the 53/18 spec, SotP was what I chose because I originally respecced for an Ulduar run that never materialise.d
I'm a fan of 0/53/18 tanking.
I skip reckoning in favor of Divine Sacrifice (Divine Suicide) and Divine Guardian as I've found proper use of DS, especially in heroics, allows your group to just faceroll even easier; and when you don't have a Holy Paladin healing you a more powerful long duration SS can be pretty nice.
For the ret tree, I prioritize Defelction, Imp Judgment (at least one), PoJ, and Crusade (crusade is REALLY nice threat/dps point per point, even if the mob isn't one of the special ones). Because I use an 'MT' spec I fill out vindication, but you don't really have to for heroics, it's just a decent amount of free/passive mitigation and my alternatives are extra crit... which is kinda meh, as I already have HotC filled out.
Fro a while I had one point in ImpJudge (I have 2/2 now) and moved the one point I have in conviction down to fill out Imp BoM to make blessing easier, but I find myself blessing kings more and less these days with lots of dps warriors around, so I'm glad I skipped it (not like 1% crit is a huge deal though).
I'm currently getting a Belf Paladin powerleveled, and as a result I'm not really getting a grasp on how to use it. I'm building it as a tank, which I'm not used to either.
Anything vital about the class I should know? Be it in general or for tanking?
Think i'm gonna respec to that right away here, I can ditch titanium weapon chain and Tuskars vitality.
Vindication and Benediction are pretty useless.
You'd be better off going for Heart of the Crusader, Conviction and Sanctity of Battle.
1 of them boosts the entire raid's crit by 3% and the other two boost your crit.
Also Divine Guardian/Sacrifice is very situational, and is more useful in an off-tank roll where you can be a damage sponge for the raid. If you are MT you don't want to use it because its a huge damage spike during some battles that can overwhelm the healers even if they are spamming you.
Typically you can pop your bubble when hitting Diving Sacrifice, but if you are tanking you don't have that luxury.
turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
edited September 2009
K thanks for all the advice guys. I'll definitely be working toward the triumph libram and I'll switch out the glyph. Upgrading the armor is gonna take a while but I'll get there eventually. I guess I'll drop vindication and put those two points into IBoM and use the one I have in Divine Intellect by accident to pick up command since where else am I going to put it. Man the ret tree is anemic.
Got to 76 this weekend, and managed to tank both Gundrak and Halls of Stone without a hitch (1 death combined from when the DK acidently dropped D&D before I could get con aura down). Actually got in 'shit' from our healer for not taking damage, so that made me feel like i was doing ok.
Got my axe from ZD, the shoulder from HoS, and the ring from Gundrak. My tanking starter kit is coming along nicely.
Gnutson on
Erai - Operative <--Imperial Double Agent--> Sniper - Eari
SW:Tor - Tao - Kryatt Dragon Server
Posts
Sabembermoff?
It wasn't just gear and not being able to take the hits of five mobs at once. It was aside from Paladins, tanks had shitty shitty AoE threat tanking abilities.
I specifically referred to early level 80s, and early Ulduar raids.
But the person you were responding to was. I've run with many leagues of tanks in Wrath and I've never seen one where CC was necessary in heroics. The only time I've ever seen it utilized with any regularity is the trash leading up to Kologarn and Vezax, and that's only in 25 and even then only if you were still fairly new to running those parts. That's it.
It's obvious they wanted to make CC as uneeded as possible, which is why they gave every tank some means of holding onto a theoretical indefinite number of mobs. In Burning Crusade you needed it because of game mechanics and design, not just if your tanks weren't geared enough.
I think the only time I had true difficulty in a heroic where we used CC was when wrath launched and my buddys and I just hit 80 and started doing them... Now you go into heroics, type in LFG "Need DPS" and have 1700-2100 meter tards lurking for badges joining, that compleatly overkill any difficulty that would of been there. This may not be the expirience for everybody, but this is at least how its been with me.
Tldr ;;
Undergeared in heroics = Use CC
Overgeared in heroics = Zone out while clicking randomly for the next 24 minutes.
---
Compleatly random side story. A few months back when I got my holy pal up, I just hit 80 and was taken to a heroic UK / OK and AN group. I had 1k healing (after buffs) at the time, and compleatly thought I was going to die as our group lacked any true CC class. Three people apparently turned out to be naxx 25 geared, and they pretty much pranced on through each and every instance without a sweat. - Their presence killed any need for tactic or previous gear requirements to pull through..
Granted karmas a B and the next week I had nothing but fail pugs...
Long story short, the DK who said he was going to pull 3.5k dps only pulled 2.1k. The brand new warlock in greens and blues who said their dps was gonna suck was pulling out 2.8k (not bad for brand new) and here I was tall and proud at a nice 3.8k dps as the tank.
/end story
spec'd prot for the first time ever on my paladin. Ever ever.
im scurred.
i just specced mine prot for the first time since TBC. Very similar gear to yours.
Still got my Hyjal tank ring, Shadowmoon Insignia and Commendation of Kael'thas.
80.
My biggest upgrades that i need are trinkets and libram.
Here is an armory link
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Tanaris&cn=Padaidinn&gn=Vox+Nihili
The point in divine intellect was a miss click on my part so that will be changed next time I'm in town but other than that I could use whatever advice you guys have.
I managed to switch my Libram of Saints Derparted for one of those neat Venture Co. ones.
I feel like a new man(Human Female Paladin).
Drop your non-dps talents, like your +healing one, you have at least a minimum of 6 that can be tossed elsewhere. Also why no improved blessing of might? Your AP to damage conversion is your greatest strength, and a good portion of the time that might will do more for you than kings will, especialy if your grouped with another paladin who can toss a kingly to ya.
What happened Saban? I distinctly recall someone scoffing at me after making me my Titansteel Helm and giving me the shield ...? :P
/click talents
/click 'blood'
If he doesn't have 3/3 in "Subversion" and he's OPENING with DnD, he must want to tank. Odds are your consecration + HotR will mean you out-threat the healer so you'll get the mobs when/if he dies (get taunt ready in case).
Make sure you chain-pull so he either can't be rezzed easily, or get's beat down reliably... or just ask him to stop. :P
DK AoE dps isn't the end-all be-all, so he was probably trying to pad his numbers by using DnD early to get the full effect. (his epeen was getting limp) In the end, for rapid-packs of fast dying heroic trash packs, many DKs are at a loss at what to do. Disease ramp-up time + disease duration means they/we have a hard time putting out great numbers if the trash is going down fast. I find that DnD is usually a waste of runes in that situation because stuff dies so fast that a few main strikes is worth it (unless it's a truly massive pull - like a room of 12-15 mobs), but he must have been out of his element (ie - not beating on the ass of a target dummy) and desperate to try and put out more damage.
Origin: Viycktor
on another note, this is my paladin. With that gear, doing some heroics last night I was topping out at about 4.5k TPS on bosses. I feel like it should be higher, but I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong, I was mostly sticking to the 96969 rotation. My threat was also pretty low when AOE tanking, I was kind of acting a bit like my warrior and while keeping Consecrate and HotR going, was tabbing through targets using ShoR to build single target threat. Is that right? I haven't tanked on my paladin since TBC, so I'm kinda new to the whole idea of Wrath tanking on a paladin.
I'm going to move that point in divine int over to improved blessing of might, but what would you suggest moving the points from divinity into? As far as I can tell no other talents I can get to would help my DPS. Also if I move the points out of divinity then I wont be able to keep divine sacrifice.
Armory doesn't show me your BV. I imagine with zero +BV on your gear, it must be pretty low. Smaller ShotRs might be a factor.
Deferring to the flow-chart... #1. Was Righeous Fury turned on? :P
and yes, it was turned on. except when I died and did half an instance without it.
on my warrior I pretty much wear zero BV gear, is it different for paladins now, do you actually chase it as a threat stat the way warriors chase expertise?
How come you didn't pick up Vindication? With HoTR is basically Demo Shout on 4 mobs without wasting a CD. Also, I think Crusade is still a bigger threat boost than SoTP (I'm still running with 53/18 currently). Threat wise, well I dunno I haven't ran an instance with my paladin lately but I believe I'm doing 6k tps or so.
EDIT: Checking out your gear I say it's lack of Strength. You've actually got more hit and expertise than my paladin so it definitely isn't that.
No, not afaik. But the gear has heaps anyway, so you wind up with a decent amount, which helps ShotR. Like, right now, I'm in pretty much just Naxx10, -25, Conquest token and Heroic ToC gear and have ~2k BV with the Libram going.
I try and run unholy presence, get diseases up and spread ASAP, and toss out blood boils and Howling Blasts liberally (if you're blood, I'd assume heart strike due to cleave, and for Unholy- they have better disease AoE anyway). When I can't do either (due to HB CD), I try to use my primary strike (Oblit in this case) and that does pretty well.
Paladin question:
In heroics and Naxx, block value with block cap is something to go for as a nice hybrid threat/mitigation stat (like expertise for warriors, though expertise isn't bad for Paladins either). For main tanking anything that hits really hard (IE T8, T9 content, along with dragons) block is something you'll end up trading for stam, armor, and avoidance.
Strength is the best threat stat by itself, hit is still slightly better than expertise I think with crit coming up in the rear for ratings (although the recent SoV changes gave expertise and crit a bump - some of our major threat moves can miss, but not be parried/dodged, others can't crit but can miss, which is why hit usually winds up higher -it definitely was in 3.1).
For heroics, I run a strength/block set that has alot less stamina and raw avoidance than my 'MT' set but with more str/BV/BR. (Ex: I use an ilvl200 blue block ring and blue block trinket) Stamina isn't as valuable in heroics once you're sitting at ~2K BV with block cap as very little physical damage gets through and you can reduce most of the other stuff with self-cleansing. Bleeds and AoE magic damage are bigger concerns.
Because of the recent SoV change that put more emphasis on the damage from hits after you reach 5-stacks (and less on the DoT tick) I try to focus on tabing around to get the SoV to 5-stacks on all the mobs. This also has an effect of spreading the ShoR damage around, but once you have 5-stack of SoV on all the mobs (remember that HotR can spread and refresh the stacks) HotR is doing some serious AoE damage with the added SoV procs.
Origin: Viycktor
since I'm only doing heroics, I decided not to bother with Vindication. I mean, I don't use Demo Shout on my warrior and never have for anything but the hardest hitting raid bosses.
I might respec to the 53/18 spec, SotP was what I chose because I originally respecced for an Ulduar run that never materialise.d
I can't view the armory at work, but this is the spec I use for Ret. Yes there's one point free. I don't care. There is nowhere else I can put it to do any good, in my opinion. Plus, that means I have a free point to pick up Command when the patch drops next month.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Silver+Hand&cn=Arcadain
Hope the link actually works...
Sir i believe you are mistaking me for some other Saban, now please stop harassing me before i call my lawyers.
My paladin has the first one where would I get a good tanking one in Wrath besides the Venture Company pvp quests
Triumph libram is way better than either of 'em tho.
Didn't see anyone mentioning it but you should switch your glyph of exorcism to glyph of seal of vengeance or whatever it was for alliance. Expertise helps much more than just boosting the dmg on single skill.
You should also consider getting the Emblem of triumph libram by doing the heroic daily, probably the biggest upgrade you can get right now.
Just got home so I can see the armory.
Don't gem for AP or crit. Strength is the way to go, after you get hit capped, which I noticed you're not (8%). Get the heroic badge trinket (Mirror of Truth) to replace the stam one you have. For seals, you're using Corruption/Vengeance on bosses, right?
Other than that, run heroics to get badges and upgrade your armor (do like Noobiest priest said and get the triumph libram, it's fantastic). Good luck!
I skip reckoning in favor of Divine Sacrifice (Divine Suicide) and Divine Guardian as I've found proper use of DS, especially in heroics, allows your group to just faceroll even easier; and when you don't have a Holy Paladin healing you a more powerful long duration SS can be pretty nice.
For the ret tree, I prioritize Defelction, Imp Judgment (at least one), PoJ, and Crusade (crusade is REALLY nice threat/dps point per point, even if the mob isn't one of the special ones). Because I use an 'MT' spec I fill out vindication, but you don't really have to for heroics, it's just a decent amount of free/passive mitigation and my alternatives are extra crit... which is kinda meh, as I already have HotC filled out.
Fro a while I had one point in ImpJudge (I have 2/2 now) and moved the one point I have in conviction down to fill out Imp BoM to make blessing easier, but I find myself blessing kings more and less these days with lots of dps warriors around, so I'm glad I skipped it (not like 1% crit is a huge deal though).
Origin: Viycktor
Anything vital about the class I should know? Be it in general or for tanking?
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Think i'm gonna respec to that right away here, I can ditch titanium weapon chain and Tuskars vitality.
Vindication and Benediction are pretty useless.
You'd be better off going for Heart of the Crusader, Conviction and Sanctity of Battle.
1 of them boosts the entire raid's crit by 3% and the other two boost your crit.
Also Divine Guardian/Sacrifice is very situational, and is more useful in an off-tank roll where you can be a damage sponge for the raid. If you are MT you don't want to use it because its a huge damage spike during some battles that can overwhelm the healers even if they are spamming you.
Typically you can pop your bubble when hitting Diving Sacrifice, but if you are tanking you don't have that luxury.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Got my axe from ZD, the shoulder from HoS, and the ring from Gundrak. My tanking starter kit is coming along nicely.
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