Is there something I'm doing wrong, or should I really be going OOM all the time as Ret? Should I be using Seal of Wisdom?
Basic rotation is Seal of Light/Crusader Strike/Divine Storm repeat, repeat, drop a Consecration occasionally and the hammer thing when they are under 20%. I use the spell that gives me 25% mana back as often as it's up. On trash I use Seal of Command, and on single targets, Corruption.
I'm even considering throwing the Seal of Command glyph on.
I judge wisdom unless there's another Paladin already doing it. I only use consecrate on bosses and trash if there's more than 2 mobs. Or I'm somewhere that the trash lives sufficiently long enough to justify it. I'm never at risk of running out of mana.
my rotation is pretty similar to yours and I rarely run low on mana, I pretty much use consecrate whenever my other stuff is on CD though so I probably go through more mana than you.
Only difference is I judge the mana one but I didn't think that would make that much of a difference.
Back in vanilla wow the guild leader/raid leader would assin who does what buff and had thier names written down
I still have this macro knocking around from the Molten Core days:
/6 IF YOU HAVE BLESSING OF KINGS, SAY K. IF YOU HAVE BLESSING OF SANCTUARY, SAY S. IF YOU HAVE TWO POINTS IN IMPROVED BLESSING OF WISDOM, SAY W. IF YOU HAVE FIVE POINTS IN IMPROVED BLESSING OF MIGHT, SAY M.
Good times. And when I say good, I mean excruciating. All I'd *want* would be zero to four characters from each paladin in turn. What I got was... variable.
mattclem on
0
GonmunHe keeps kickin' me inthe dickRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
I'm pretty much the same rotation myself. The only I think I have different is I've got my spec set up so if I crit then my exorcism is instant cast so I'll hit judgement, crusader, divine storm and then normally I should have it proc'd so I'll hit exorcism and by then I can hit crusader then divine storm and then start the whole thing over again. Consecrate is the same for me as it is for Pierce, I'll only use it on multiple mobs and bosses. Mana isn't much of a problem either as I've got the 25% restore on judgements too.
Is there something I'm doing wrong, or should I really be going OOM all the time as Ret? Should I be using Seal of Wisdom?
Basic rotation is Seal of Light/Crusader Strike/Divine Storm repeat, repeat, drop a Consecration occasionally and the hammer thing when they are under 20%. I use the spell that gives me 25% mana back as often as it's up. On trash I use Seal of Command, and on single targets, Corruption.
I'm even considering throwing the Seal of Command glyph on.
If this wasn't a typo and you are actually casting Seal of Light, thats why.
I'm pretty much the same rotation myself. The only I think I have different is I've got my spec set up so if I crit then my exorcism is instant cast so I'll hit judgement, crusader, divine storm and then normally I should have it proc'd so I'll hit exorcism and by then I can hit crusader then divine storm and then start the whole thing over again. Consecrate is the same for me as it is for Pierce, I'll only use it on multiple mobs and bosses. Mana isn't much of a problem either as I've got the 25% restore on judgements too.
oh yeah I forgot about exorcism... I cast that one too when AoW is up as well.
Are there any other pallies having trouble getting a new shield? I mean damn, I'm still using the Aegis of Damnation from Naxx and it's taunting me dammit. Everything else I have is over 200 but that! That is still there. I don't mind my trinket being 213 but my shield? Come on!
I just checked most of the item databases and was very disturbed to see that the only shield I can hope to get without raiding is a 219 shield from a NORMAL dungeon.
WTF? I don't do NORMAL dungeon's anymore. I just do heroics.
At least I got Seethe to replace my Titansteel Guardian and now that I'm raiding again I can hope to get something new from Marrowgar in ICC 25 but still. What the hell?
Are there any other pallies having trouble getting a new shield? I mean damn, I'm still using the Aegis of Damnation from Naxx and it's taunting me dammit. Everything else I have is over 200 but that! That is still there. I don't mind my trinket being 213 but my shield? Come on!
I just checked most of the item databases and was very disturbed to see that the only shield I can hope to get without raiding is a 219 shield from a NORMAL dungeon.
WTF? I don't do NORMAL dungeon's anymore. I just do heroics.
At least I got Seethe to replace my Titansteel Guardian and now that I'm raiding again I can hope to get something new from Marrowgar in ICC 25 but still. What the hell?
The new instances have nice gear, but you might just have to run them on normal to get it. Not really a huge issue, honestly. It's to help people get better gear to leap frog into the new raids.
Are there any other pallies having trouble getting a new shield? I mean damn, I'm still using the Aegis of Damnation from Naxx and it's taunting me dammit. Everything else I have is over 200 but that! That is still there. I don't mind my trinket being 213 but my shield? Come on!
I just checked most of the item databases and was very disturbed to see that the only shield I can hope to get without raiding is a 219 shield from a NORMAL dungeon.
WTF? I don't do NORMAL dungeon's anymore. I just do heroics.
At least I got Seethe to replace my Titansteel Guardian and now that I'm raiding again I can hope to get something new from Marrowgar in ICC 25 but still. What the hell?
The new instances have nice gear, but you might just have to run them on normal to get it. Not really a huge issue, honestly. It's to help people get better gear to leap frog into the new raids.
They still drop emblems of triumph on normal so it isn't a total waste of time if they're still useful to you, I guess.
Newb ret pally question: I'm lvl 65 and I'm new to the wonderful world of putting gems into things. So the question is: as a dps only retpally what gems should I go for? I hear str is the way to go but what else?
Until you hit 80, I'd get as much crit as possible. All your gear will have str on it regardless.
DisruptorX2 on
0
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Red: Str
Yellow: Str, or Str+Crit if the socket bonus is good (ex. +6 Str)
Blue: Str, except when you get a meta socket hat, where you put one Nightmare's Tear in the blue socket with the best bonus, and use the Agi+Crit meta (because it only needs one blue gem)
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
A question for my Protection Spec brothers from another mother.
What happens to your threat when you hit Divine Protection? We're having trouble against Saurfang getting too much blood power too fast and since we're too holy paladins in ICC 25, I thought that if we each take turns hitting the tank with Divine Protection during we could at least prevent some blood power being created.
I've been trying more and more to incorporate different things into my healing bag of tricks now like using Hand of Sacrifice as well but obviously I don't want to try this out during a boss fight.
But Divine Protection is a self-cast buff only. A tankadin could use it every 2 minutes, but it would create Forbearance.
Hand of Protection is the castable-on-others one, and what would happen would be no threat wipe, but Saurfang would instantly choose a non-immune target to attack, and only switch back to the original tank if they taunted or their threat was past the aggro threshold when it wore off. It doesn't remove the Mark, but it does prevent all damage from the Mark while it's up. And it also would create a 2-minute Forbearance.
The tooltip this morning in game read like this: Reduces all damage taken by 50% for 12 sec. Once protected, the target cannot be protected by Divine Shield, Divine Protection, Hand of Protection or Lay on Hands again for 2 min. Cannot be used within 30 sec sec. of using Avenging Wrath.
I'll check today ingame if I can cast it on someone else. Maybe i'm reading it wrong but it sure seems that I can cast it someone else. I thought it was another change like multiple beacons on the same target that I might have missed while I was gone.
It's Divine Shield Lite, and you can't DS other people either. Also, from the comments on that page:
So I must be a noobadin because nothing about the spell seems to indicate that you cannot cast this on others. It's strictly a self only effect. Instead of saying "target", they should have used "paladin". I was trying to protect flag carriers in WSG and then I'd look up and see I have the Forbearance debuff. Doh!
SabreMau on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Not to criticise you overly, but I genuinely do not understand how its possible to not know how your own class abilities work. Other classes, sure, someone less interested in the specifics of the game might not want to go into detailed knowledge of other classes, but your own?
Dhalphir on
0
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Not to criticise you overly, but I genuinely do not understand how its possible to not know how your own class abilities work. Other classes, sure, someone less interested in the specifics of the game might not want to go into detailed knowledge of other classes, but your own?
Hey, now, my warrior had been lvl 80 for several weeks before I discovered that Heroic Throw was a silence.
Sometimes things just slip by you.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Not to criticise you overly, but I genuinely do not understand how its possible to not know how your own class abilities work. Other classes, sure, someone less interested in the specifics of the game might not want to go into detailed knowledge of other classes, but your own?
Because sir, as a healer I never need Divine Protection. The only fight I have ever been in which I could conceivable need it would be when I was pulling undead in Karazahn. In all other instances as a healer I would be using Divine Shield. I previously stated that I thought that this might have been a new class change akin to the Beacon of Light now being able to be used on the same target by multiple paladins and that said beacon now also heals even overhealing.
As of now I'm thinking of running Divine Protection with Hand of Sacrifice from time to time in boss fights in order to offset the damage done instead of just spamming heals on myself when I activate the Hand.
Now to find a way to trigger it via Healbot and I'll be set.
if you want to help out your tank in a similar fashion, our guild's non-tankadins all have prot as their subspec for Divine Sacrifice. despite its recent nerfing, if you put the paladins in the same group divine sac + bubble will still mitigate somewhere between 30k-50k damage.
Cypher, what the others are trying to explain to you is that as a Holy Paladin there is no reason to use DP over DS. DP is a 50% reduction and DS is a 100% reduction and both will trigger Forebearance so you can only use one or the other for a few minutes. Both are self-buffs so you can't use DP on someone else, and if you're using Hand of Sacrifice or Divine Sacrifice you should use Divine Shield as well so that all redirected damage to you is absorbed by Divine Shield.
oh God, I started collecting tank gear about 1 week ago, and this weekend finsihed getting a full set.. and wow having so much fun tanking... But I also have a lot of fun dpsing.... And I now have 70 frost badges as well as just getting enough rep last night in ICC for the ring....
not sure which spec to spend it on...
I play with 5 friends and we mainly stick together (1 healer druid, 1 healing pld, 1 tank war.. 1 rogue, and myself.. ret pld) everyweek we put together a pug 10 man for the weekly raid quest and try to get as far as we can in the instance
Now since it a pug, and we usually run it on sundays, I am usually either top or 2nd on dps chart, but having 2 healers and 2 tanks and just needing to fill in dps would be nice to.
I am going to talk with my friends tonight see which they would rather have me as
Vladimir7 on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Cypher, what the others are trying to explain to you is that as a Holy Paladin there is no reason to use DP over DS. DP is a 50% reduction and DS is a 100% reduction and both will trigger Forebearance so you can only use one or the other for a few minutes. Both are self-buffs so you can't use DP on someone else, and if you're using Hand of Sacrifice or Divine Sacrifice you should use Divine Shield as well so that all redirected damage to you is absorbed by Divine Shield.
the only time you'd use DP over DS is if you already used Divine Sacrifice + Divine Shield, your tank is about to take a huge spike so you need to Hand of Sac, AND the timing of such a need happens to fall between the time when your Forbearance has already fallen off you but Divine Shield is not yet cooled down, which is a narrow window.
So to sum up and answer your question more quickly, DP is self-cast only.
I actually had a pally last night(healer I think) say that their bubble broke awfully quickly, and someone responded that "Yeah, it breaks with damage now."
Is there something I'm doing wrong, or should I really be going OOM all the time as Ret? Should I be using Seal of Wisdom?
Basic rotation is Seal of Light/Crusader Strike/Divine Storm repeat, repeat, drop a Consecration occasionally and the hammer thing when they are under 20%. I use the spell that gives me 25% mana back as often as it's up. On trash I use Seal of Command, and on single targets, Corruption.
I'm even considering throwing the Seal of Command glyph on.
Alright, misread something in my first attempt.
Back on point, you shouldn't be running out so easily with this. But I do have to ask, is this with 2 piece T10? (Worth asking in case, since it presents new mana problems.)
As someone pointed out, use judgment as often as possible if mana is that big an issue. And switch to judging wisdom unless it is already done for you. It is surprising to hear that you've got that big of a mana problem with the general DPS sequence.
No, I'm using 3/4 Tier 9 pieces and hoping to get the fourth tonight.
But I did, at least temporarily fix my problem.
Since my trinkets were crap anyway, I ended up buying two of these guys: Oracle Talisman of Ablution http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44074#comments , and never go OOM again. These things are WONDERFUL for trash. I can spam Consecration on every trash pull now, and each kill gives me 10% mana back (even on the trash zombies in H CoS). These things are awesome, and they BOTH proc every kill with no cooldown.
basic rotation is Seal of Light....I assume you mean Judgment of Light, since you said you used Seal of Command or Corruption.
This is going to be a main source of your lack of mana. Typically you want to use the Judgement of Wisdom not Light, as your Divine Storm will heal you and you can insant FoL if you are getting real low. Between Judgement of Wisdom and Divine Plea, you should be sitting fairly well regarding mana return.
Are there any other pallies having trouble getting a new shield? I mean damn, I'm still using the Aegis of Damnation from Naxx and it's taunting me dammit. Everything else I have is over 200 but that! That is still there. I don't mind my trinket being 213 but my shield? Come on!
I just checked most of the item databases and was very disturbed to see that the only shield I can hope to get without raiding is a 219 shield from a NORMAL dungeon.
WTF? I don't do NORMAL dungeon's anymore. I just do heroics.
At least I got Seethe to replace my Titansteel Guardian and now that I'm raiding again I can hope to get something new from Marrowgar in ICC 25 but still. What the hell?
The new instances have nice gear, but you might just have to run them on normal to get it. Not really a huge issue, honestly. It's to help people get better gear to leap frog into the new raids.
Yeah, it was a typo in the original post. I have been using Judgement of Light. I have tried switching to Wisdom, but with the trinkets, I'm going to stick with Light until I win the Needle-Encrusted Scorpion or something else nice.
Yeah, it was a typo in the original post. I have been using Judgement of Light. I have tried switching to Wisdom, but with the trinkets, I'm going to stick with Light until I win the Needle-Encrusted Scorpion or something else nice.
ew ew ew ew. Why would you go for Armor Pen as a paladin, it only helps your auto attacks.
Mirror of Truth is definitely better, and Darkmoon Card Greatness is better still.
Trinkets were/are my last priority for gearing up, so I really haven't done much research into what I should be using, so all of these suggestions are awesome. What are my other options?
I was also looking at the Anvil of Titans. It's a PVP trinket, but the proc looks awesome.
In fact, any advice would be awesome. This is my first character. Yeah, there's a lot of PVP gear on me that I'm slowly replacing.
It shouldn't make a difference if you use Judgment of Light or Wisdom. Sure you get mana back from the debuff on the mob, but the real mana return is from the act of Judging period, as you should have talented for Judgments of the Wise. That alone should handle any mana issues you have outside of consecrating/divine storming/holy wrathing(if you can) on AOE packs. And if you have mana issues other than that, Divine Plea should more than make up for it. Also remember, Judging a critter in an instance will also proc JotW. I don't think that works outside of instances anymore though.
EDIT: For trinkets, I'm using Mirror of Truth/DMC: Greatness.
Posts
Basic rotation is Seal of Light/Crusader Strike/Divine Storm repeat, repeat, drop a Consecration occasionally and the hammer thing when they are under 20%. I use the spell that gives me 25% mana back as often as it's up. On trash I use Seal of Command, and on single targets, Corruption.
I'm even considering throwing the Seal of Command glyph on.
I judge wisdom unless there's another Paladin already doing it. I only use consecrate on bosses and trash if there's more than 2 mobs. Or I'm somewhere that the trash lives sufficiently long enough to justify it. I'm never at risk of running out of mana.
Only difference is I judge the mana one but I didn't think that would make that much of a difference.
I still have this macro knocking around from the Molten Core days:
Good times. And when I say good, I mean excruciating. All I'd *want* would be zero to four characters from each paladin in turn. What I got was... variable.
If this wasn't a typo and you are actually casting Seal of Light, thats why.
oh yeah I forgot about exorcism... I cast that one too when AoW is up as well.
I just checked most of the item databases and was very disturbed to see that the only shield I can hope to get without raiding is a 219 shield from a NORMAL dungeon.
WTF? I don't do NORMAL dungeon's anymore. I just do heroics.
At least I got Seethe to replace my Titansteel Guardian and now that I'm raiding again I can hope to get something new from Marrowgar in ICC 25 but still. What the hell?
The new instances have nice gear, but you might just have to run them on normal to get it. Not really a huge issue, honestly. It's to help people get better gear to leap frog into the new raids.
That's about it at 65.
and then some more str
Yellow: Str, or Str+Crit if the socket bonus is good (ex. +6 Str)
Blue: Str, except when you get a meta socket hat, where you put one Nightmare's Tear in the blue socket with the best bonus, and use the Agi+Crit meta (because it only needs one blue gem)
What happens to your threat when you hit Divine Protection? We're having trouble against Saurfang getting too much blood power too fast and since we're too holy paladins in ICC 25, I thought that if we each take turns hitting the tank with Divine Protection during we could at least prevent some blood power being created.
I've been trying more and more to incorporate different things into my healing bag of tricks now like using Hand of Sacrifice as well but obviously I don't want to try this out during a boss fight.
Thanks
Hand of Protection is the castable-on-others one, and what would happen would be no threat wipe, but Saurfang would instantly choose a non-immune target to attack, and only switch back to the original tank if they taunted or their threat was past the aggro threshold when it wore off. It doesn't remove the Mark, but it does prevent all damage from the Mark while it's up. And it also would create a 2-minute Forbearance.
I'll check today ingame if I can cast it on someone else. Maybe i'm reading it wrong but it sure seems that I can cast it someone else. I thought it was another change like multiple beacons on the same target that I might have missed while I was gone.
It's Divine Shield Lite, and you can't DS other people either. Also, from the comments on that page:
Hey, now, my warrior had been lvl 80 for several weeks before I discovered that Heroic Throw was a silence.
Sometimes things just slip by you.
Because sir, as a healer I never need Divine Protection. The only fight I have ever been in which I could conceivable need it would be when I was pulling undead in Karazahn. In all other instances as a healer I would be using Divine Shield. I previously stated that I thought that this might have been a new class change akin to the Beacon of Light now being able to be used on the same target by multiple paladins and that said beacon now also heals even overhealing.
As of now I'm thinking of running Divine Protection with Hand of Sacrifice from time to time in boss fights in order to offset the damage done instead of just spamming heals on myself when I activate the Hand.
Now to find a way to trigger it via Healbot and I'll be set.
not sure which spec to spend it on...
I play with 5 friends and we mainly stick together (1 healer druid, 1 healing pld, 1 tank war.. 1 rogue, and myself.. ret pld) everyweek we put together a pug 10 man for the weekly raid quest and try to get as far as we can in the instance
Now since it a pug, and we usually run it on sundays, I am usually either top or 2nd on dps chart, but having 2 healers and 2 tanks and just needing to fill in dps would be nice to.
I am going to talk with my friends tonight see which they would rather have me as
the only time you'd use DP over DS is if you already used Divine Sacrifice + Divine Shield, your tank is about to take a huge spike so you need to Hand of Sac, AND the timing of such a need happens to fall between the time when your Forbearance has already fallen off you but Divine Shield is not yet cooled down, which is a narrow window.
So to sum up and answer your question more quickly, DP is self-cast only.
I didn't know how to respond to that statement.
Alright, misread something in my first attempt.
Back on point, you shouldn't be running out so easily with this. But I do have to ask, is this with 2 piece T10? (Worth asking in case, since it presents new mana problems.)
As someone pointed out, use judgment as often as possible if mana is that big an issue. And switch to judging wisdom unless it is already done for you. It is surprising to hear that you've got that big of a mana problem with the general DPS sequence.
Pins!
But I did, at least temporarily fix my problem.
Since my trinkets were crap anyway, I ended up buying two of these guys: Oracle Talisman of Ablution http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44074#comments , and never go OOM again. These things are WONDERFUL for trash. I can spam Consecration on every trash pull now, and each kill gives me 10% mana back (even on the trash zombies in H CoS). These things are awesome, and they BOTH proc every kill with no cooldown.
This is going to be a main source of your lack of mana. Typically you want to use the Judgement of Wisdom not Light, as your Divine Storm will heal you and you can insant FoL if you are getting real low. Between Judgement of Wisdom and Divine Plea, you should be sitting fairly well regarding mana return.
ew ew ew ew. Why would you go for Armor Pen as a paladin, it only helps your auto attacks.
Mirror of Truth is definitely better, and Darkmoon Card Greatness is better still.
That won't stop holy paladins from rolling on it against my hunter.
I was also looking at the Anvil of Titans. It's a PVP trinket, but the proc looks awesome.
In fact, any advice would be awesome. This is my first character. Yeah, there's a lot of PVP gear on me that I'm slowly replacing.
EDIT: For trinkets, I'm using Mirror of Truth/DMC: Greatness.