Actually, just to add to that. The ads for Ultimatum basically checklists of people who might to die and then as the book has progressed for a while the ads were of that list with names crossed off. That would indicate intentions pretty clearly IMO.
I guess I was more referring to the gratuitous violence used in the killings. I mean the only one that doesn't seem to have died extremely violently on panel was the one that actually died in another comic.
Actually I think the Ultimate Origins thing will be touched on during or after Ultimatum. Spoilers ahead:
I think Fury will let what's left of the world know the true origin of mutants and the after effects of that will be be explored in the Ultimate Comic books. I still don't know what's up with Rick Jones though.
There were a few people that died in Infinite Crisis. Superman-2, Connor Kent, Wally, Bart.
Bart died significantly after Infinite Crisis, as, as far as I can recall, Wally never died at all. I assume you mean entering the speed force, which I never thought meant death.
Well, maybe except for Max. Regardless, Ultimatum is way more gratuitous in it's death. Wasp, Angel, Strange... that's just sick death porn.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I really enjoyed the Ultimate Origins run that Bendis did shortly before this Ultimatum crap got started. Its too bad it was basically all for naught.
Blegh, really? I thought it was really messy. I don't know how someone who basically wrote the entire Ultimate Universe could contradict himself so much.
There were a few people that died in Infinite Crisis. Superman-2, Connor Kent, Wally, Bart.
You neglect all the minor, but long-standing, characters that got pointlessly shuffled off; Psycho Pirate, the Royal Flush Gang, Major Disaster, most of the Bloodpack, Alex Luthor, Earth-2 Superman, the Freedom Fighters, Peacemaker, Judomaster, and then all the people who died in tie-ins, like Kite Man, the original Ragdoll, Hawkwoman, Jade, the Supermen of America, Firefly, and so on.
Infinite Crisis still reigns supreme as far as senseless, wanton character waste goes.
Can anyone vouch for the quality of Dark Reign: Fantastic Four?
Cuz this is awesome.
I would say the main flaw is Reed being all, "But Civil War and Secret Invasion are my fault, because I am infallible and a genius!" when if he's so smart, he knows that's not the case.
It still has some pretty amazing moments in it.
Isn't that the point? It's not his fault, but he's so confident in his own intelligence that he's sure there must be a way he could have averted it.
I'd say Dark Reign Fantastic Four is one of the stand out books of this event - like MI;13 and Black Panther during Secret Invasion ... I think I read somewhere that the creative team are moving to 'real' Fantastic Four after this mini, which is grand by me because I think this is a million light years ahead of what Millar and Hitch are doing there these days.
There were a few people that died in Infinite Crisis. Superman-2, Connor Kent, Wally, Bart.
You neglect all the minor, but long-standing, characters that got pointlessly shuffled off; Psycho Pirate, the Royal Flush Gang, Major Disaster, most of the Bloodpack, Alex Luthor, Earth-2 Superman, the Freedom Fighters, Peacemaker, Judomaster, and then all the people who died in tie-ins, like Kite Man, the original Ragdoll, Hawkwoman, Jade, the Supermen of America, Firefly, and so on.
Infinite Crisis still reigns supreme as far as senseless, wanton character waste goes.
There were a few people that died in Infinite Crisis. Superman-2, Connor Kent, Wally, Bart.
You neglect all the minor, but long-standing, characters that got pointlessly shuffled off; Psycho Pirate, the Royal Flush Gang, Major Disaster, most of the Bloodpack, Alex Luthor, Earth-2 Superman, the Freedom Fighters, Peacemaker, Judomaster, and then all the people who died in tie-ins, like Kite Man, the original Ragdoll, Hawkwoman, Jade, the Supermen of America, Firefly, and so on.
Infinite Crisis still reigns supreme as far as senseless, wanton character waste goes.
There were a few people that died in Infinite Crisis. Superman-2, Connor Kent, Wally, Bart.
You neglect all the minor, but long-standing, characters that got pointlessly shuffled off; Psycho Pirate, the Royal Flush Gang, Major Disaster, most of the Bloodpack, Alex Luthor, Earth-2 Superman, the Freedom Fighters, Peacemaker, Judomaster, and then all the people who died in tie-ins, like Kite Man, the original Ragdoll, Hawkwoman, Jade, the Supermen of America, Firefly, and so on.
Infinite Crisis still reigns supreme as far as senseless, wanton character waste goes.
Say his name, Munch. We'll allow it this once.
Munch says his name with every act, and every breath he takes.
So the last panel shows them rappelling face-first from the helicopter down to the ground, which is just another bit of stupidity. So, yeah, it definitely was a turd.
Not sure if this helps redeem that scene or not - but that sounds a lot like Australian Style rappelling. When rappelling down a wall (maybe out of a helicopter too, but that sounds dicey) they go face first instead of backside first. I tried it once - freaky sensation...
There were a few people that died in Infinite Crisis. Superman-2, Connor Kent, Wally, Bart.
Bart died significantly after Infinite Crisis, as, as far as I can recall, Wally never died at all. I assume you mean entering the speed force, which I never thought meant death.
Well, maybe except for Max. Regardless, Ultimatum is way more gratuitous in it's death. Wasp, Angel, Strange... that's just sick death porn.
Bart and Wally both went into the Speed Force at the same time. Neither came out. Both were presumed dead. That's what I mean. We didn't find out till later what happened to them. As far as Infinite Crisis goes, they sacrificed themselves to stop Superboy Prime.
To me, there's a significant difference between two heroes sacrificing themselves to down a threat greater then Doomsday by throwing themselves into the speed force, and cannibalism, what happened to Angel, and whatever the hell happened to Dr. Strange.
To me, one is a story and the other is a snuff comic. I mean, can people really not see the difference? If you were going to argue any DC property being on the same level as Ultimatum, I'd say Identity Crisis was much closer then Infinite Crisis.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
Do you really need to use the term "snuff" though? I don't think people are reading Ultimatum to get a sexual rise, at least I friggin hope not.
Well, I mean, I think snuff just denotes excitement, not necessarily sexual excitement. I could be using the term incorrectly. I mean, a snuff film is defined as pornography featuring someone's murder. Pornography is defined as obscene material, and I would argue that some of the things Loeb has done here could be considered obscene. Or at least needlessly shocking and graphic.
The odd thing is, I wouldn't have a problem with it if it were wrapping in a good freaking story.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
I don't have a problem with calling it needlessly shocking and graphic just so you know. I just want the damn thing to be over and to be honest I'm thinking about boycotting anything Finch does after this. I don't mind Loeb as much as other people but Finch's laziness drug this out way too long.
Snuff isn't really the right word, I mostly used it for effect. A snuff film just shows an actual murder of someone, and likely none have ever actually been made and sold, it doesn't really indicate any sexual enjoyment of it.
Ultimatum is just way to extreme and graphic with what it is doing and seems to do it just for the sake of the gratuitousness.
kdrudy on
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
No, I think 'snuff' is the perfect descriptor for Ultimatum. Look at the discovery of Wasp and the Blob, Strange's death, Angel and Sabretooth's deaths. It's death and graphic violence for the sole purpose of titillation.
So the last panel shows them rappelling face-first from the helicopter down to the ground, which is just another bit of stupidity. So, yeah, it definitely was a turd.
Not sure if this helps redeem that scene or not - but that sounds a lot like Australian Style rappelling. When rappelling down a wall (maybe out of a helicopter too, but that sounds dicey) they go face first instead of backside first. I tried it once - freaky sensation...
No. I understand how that works going down a wall. But I assume there is some sort of harness involved, which is not the case when (at least U.S. soldiers AFAIK) rappel out of helicopters because the last thing you want when sliding down a rope from a helicopter is the chance to be swung into a building or some other thing because you need to decouple. Of course, if you slip or miss the rope when you jump out you've just fallen out of a helicopter, but oh well.
Crimsondude on
0
143999Tellin' yanot askin' ya, not pleadin' with yaRegistered Userregular
Gorn would probably be the better term to use in this case.
Carnography was the word coined by one of the reviewers upon finishing 'Rambo' and given what's been going on in Ultamatum, I think fits nicely here too.
Yeah, that sounds about right. I was thinking last night that this is the same douche who wrote Commando, which is total death porn.
I swear to god if you badmouth Commando I will kill you and everyone you hold dear
Sidenote: The draft of Commando that Jeph Loeb wrote was devoid of any comedy or really anything that made it as great as it was. He had very little to do with what was finally on the screen in the end.
But seriously if you badmouth Commando you are the worst person alive
Posts
Bart died significantly after Infinite Crisis, as, as far as I can recall, Wally never died at all. I assume you mean entering the speed force, which I never thought meant death.
Well, maybe except for Max. Regardless, Ultimatum is way more gratuitous in it's death. Wasp, Angel, Strange... that's just sick death porn.
No wonder Hickman and Bendis work so well together.
You neglect all the minor, but long-standing, characters that got pointlessly shuffled off; Psycho Pirate, the Royal Flush Gang, Major Disaster, most of the Bloodpack, Alex Luthor, Earth-2 Superman, the Freedom Fighters, Peacemaker, Judomaster, and then all the people who died in tie-ins, like Kite Man, the original Ragdoll, Hawkwoman, Jade, the Supermen of America, Firefly, and so on.
Infinite Crisis still reigns supreme as far as senseless, wanton character waste goes.
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Isn't that the point? It's not his fault, but he's so confident in his own intelligence that he's sure there must be a way he could have averted it.
I'd say Dark Reign Fantastic Four is one of the stand out books of this event - like MI;13 and Black Panther during Secret Invasion ... I think I read somewhere that the creative team are moving to 'real' Fantastic Four after this mini, which is grand by me because I think this is a million light years ahead of what Millar and Hitch are doing there these days.
Max Lord?
Munch says his name with every act, and every breath he takes.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Not sure if this helps redeem that scene or not - but that sounds a lot like Australian Style rappelling. When rappelling down a wall (maybe out of a helicopter too, but that sounds dicey) they go face first instead of backside first. I tried it once - freaky sensation...
Bart and Wally both went into the Speed Force at the same time. Neither came out. Both were presumed dead. That's what I mean. We didn't find out till later what happened to them. As far as Infinite Crisis goes, they sacrificed themselves to stop Superboy Prime.
To me, one is a story and the other is a snuff comic. I mean, can people really not see the difference? If you were going to argue any DC property being on the same level as Ultimatum, I'd say Identity Crisis was much closer then Infinite Crisis.
Well, I mean, I think snuff just denotes excitement, not necessarily sexual excitement. I could be using the term incorrectly. I mean, a snuff film is defined as pornography featuring someone's murder. Pornography is defined as obscene material, and I would argue that some of the things Loeb has done here could be considered obscene. Or at least needlessly shocking and graphic.
The odd thing is, I wouldn't have a problem with it if it were wrapping in a good freaking story.
Ultimatum is just way to extreme and graphic with what it is doing and seems to do it just for the sake of the gratuitousness.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Tumblr Twitter
No. I understand how that works going down a wall. But I assume there is some sort of harness involved, which is not the case when (at least U.S. soldiers AFAIK) rappel out of helicopters because the last thing you want when sliding down a rope from a helicopter is the chance to be swung into a building or some other thing because you need to decouple. Of course, if you slip or miss the rope when you jump out you've just fallen out of a helicopter, but oh well.
Gorn?
I swear to god if you badmouth Commando I will kill you and everyone you hold dear
Sidenote: The draft of Commando that Jeph Loeb wrote was devoid of any comedy or really anything that made it as great as it was. He had very little to do with what was finally on the screen in the end.
But seriously if you badmouth Commando you are the worst person alive
your mod powers aren't my enemy right now
gravity is
...what
Edit: Sorry, had to do it
Man, that's one of my favourite films ever.