For the most part, the army is fairly reasonable. Their units are nasty, hatred is very powerful, but they're still just st3 t3 elves for the most part. The compulsory hydra and ASF'ing blackguard, however, often leave people at a loss for a way to effectively counter them. Unless you have a lot of shooting and/or impact hits, the blackguard are going to fuck up almost anything that charges them (unless it has a monumental armor save). Without flaming attacks, the hydra is just a son-of-a-bitch to put down, mainly because it's borderline impossible to kill the handlers, is really difficult to wound between armor and regen saves and keeps every one of it's attacks until dead. Attacks that are an unusual-for-monsters WS4, and of course St5.
I could see Lizardmen (skinks and salamanders) and Dwarfs (gunline & flame cannons) being a strong matchup against DE.
I haven't had the displeasure of getting DoC'd, I only have the theoryhammer to go on. Flamers are pretty crazy on paper. Move-or-fire seems like it'd help. Lowering the str of their shots, and/or dialing back their combat stats would probably help too.
DoC are what led to me to start number-crunching. I was playing a game (that I ended up getting hosed in) and I had a unit of Flamers march out from behind cover towards two of my Bolt Throwers. I was like, fuck yeah, easy kills on those assholes. The person I'm playing against stops me before I roll, though, and says, "I'll bet you get two wounds between both Bolt Throwers." I pretty much thought fuck you, I'm hosing your bitches, so I rolled. First BT had 4 hits, 2 wounds and 1 was saved. Thinking I got unlucky, I tried again, still going for repeater fire. 3 hits, 1 wound, unsaved. The next turn he blew up one Bolt Thrower, and then got the other the turn after that. In all, he didn't even lose points because I never got that unit below half.
DoC is full of shit like that. You think you're in the clear because there's not a lot of armor saves, but then they all have a built-in 5+ Ward Save, which is really effective. Every Lord has T6 and at least 5 wounds. You can't destroy or deny any magic items (not a big thing for DE anyways, but I know it's annoying for some armies). The little shit just goes on and makes them more and more unkillable.
I kinda feel repeater bolt throwers are slightly underwhelming, though against skirmishers, they're obviously generally a better choice. Still, flamers stats are just fucking wrong. They can out shoot anything that might try to shoot them to death and out fight just about anything that can catch them.
I kinda feel repeater bolt throwers are slightly underwhelming, though against skirmishers, they're obviously generally a better choice. Still, flamers stats are just fucking wrong. They can out shoot anything that might try to shoot them to death and out fight just about anything that can catch them.
What's even worse is that, per shot, they're very point efficient. A close analogue to them is Dwarven Handgunners, who are 15 points for BS3 (and +1) to hit, S4 AP with 24" range. Flamers are 35 points for BS4, S4 Flaming with 18" range, but they average 3.5 shots each. So, for every shot Dwarfs pay 15, while DoC pay 10. What the Christ. I know one is Core and the other is Rare, but that's stupid.
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CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
I'm touching up Morskittar's OP and starting a new thread, since we're at critical mass.
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IanatorGaze upon my works, ye mightyand facepalm.Registered Userregular
edited June 2009
Orc dude again. I don't have any boars except for two HQs (a Warboss and I think a Shaman) and I'm already using almost all my Boyz. It also looks as if I'll be going against High Elves, so I'm hesitant to add any more Goblins for fear of, um... Fear? I could use some more Spider Riders though, should I ditch the Spear Chukkas and/or Doom Divers for another unit?
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I kinda feel repeater bolt throwers are slightly underwhelming, though against skirmishers, they're obviously generally a better choice. Still, flamers stats are just fucking wrong. They can out shoot anything that might try to shoot them to death and out fight just about anything that can catch them.
What's even worse is that, per shot, they're very point efficient. A close analogue to them is Dwarven Handgunners, who are 15 points for BS3 (and +1) to hit, S4 AP with 24" range. Flamers are 35 points for BS4, S4 Flaming with 18" range, but they average 3.5 shots each. So, for every shot Dwarfs pay 15, while DoC pay 10. What the Christ. I know one is Core and the other is Rare, but that's stupid.
I just want to point out that a Thunderer is 14 points per model. 15 would include the shield.
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I could see Lizardmen (skinks and salamanders) and Dwarfs (gunline & flame cannons) being a strong matchup against DE.
DoC is full of shit like that. You think you're in the clear because there's not a lot of armor saves, but then they all have a built-in 5+ Ward Save, which is really effective. Every Lord has T6 and at least 5 wounds. You can't destroy or deny any magic items (not a big thing for DE anyways, but I know it's annoying for some armies). The little shit just goes on and makes them more and more unkillable.
What's even worse is that, per shot, they're very point efficient. A close analogue to them is Dwarven Handgunners, who are 15 points for BS3 (and +1) to hit, S4 AP with 24" range. Flamers are 35 points for BS4, S4 Flaming with 18" range, but they average 3.5 shots each. So, for every shot Dwarfs pay 15, while DoC pay 10. What the Christ. I know one is Core and the other is Rare, but that's stupid.
THEY ARE BALANCED WITHIN THE ARMY
:warseer:
They can.
.... Well fuck that.
Twitch | Blizzard: Ianator#1479 | 3DS: Ianator - 1779 2336 5317 | FFXIV: Iana Ateliere (NA Sarg)
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I just want to point out that a Thunderer is 14 points per model. 15 would include the shield.