I want to see said combat rules changes.... stupid work filters.
Combat damage doesn't use the stack anymore. As soon as it is assigned it takes effect.
Which means:
1. You can't block one X/1 dude with a Mogg Fanatic, stack the damage and sac him to kill another dude killing both
2. You can't block a dude, stack lethal damage, then bounce your own guy
3. You can't play power/toughness games with cards like Crag Puca (switch to 4/2, block a 3/3, stack damage, switch to a 2/4)
In general, this weakens bounce, instant-speed sac effects, and power/toughness switching significantly.
I'm OK with all the other changes but the combat rules change bugs me.
You're ok with the mana pool emptying after every phase?
....errr.....it's done that for quite a while now...I think since Alpha. The change is to every step.
Yeah, you haven't been able to float mana from upkeep to draw to main or anything like that for the entire time I've been playing, and I've been playing since revised.
What?
Read the bold part:
The Fix: Mana pools now empty at the end of each step and phase, which means mana can no longer be floated from the upkeep to the draw step, nor from the declare attackers step to the declare blockers step of combat.
Meant to stay step in my first post, so my bad, but it is still a dumb rule change.
I don't really like the rule change in question but you just perfectly illustrated why they're doing it. Many people have trouble with the distinction between steps and phases.
I want to see said combat rules changes.... stupid work filters.
Combat damage doesn't use the stack anymore. As soon as it is assigned it takes effect.
Which means:
1. You can't block one X/1 dude with a Mogg Fanatic, stack the damage and sac him to kill another dude killing both
2. You can't block a dude, stack lethal damage, then bounce your own guy
3. You can't play power/toughness games with cards like Crag Puca (switch to 4/2, block a 3/3, stack damage, switch to a 2/4)
In general, this weakens bounce, instant-speed sac effects, and power/toughness switching significantly.
I'm OK with all the other changes but the combat rules change bugs me.
You're ok with the mana pool emptying after every phase?
....errr.....it's done that for quite a while now...I think since Alpha. The change is to every step.
Yeah, you haven't been able to float mana from upkeep to draw to main or anything like that for the entire time I've been playing, and I've been playing since revised.
What?
Read the bold part:
The Fix: Mana pools now empty at the end of each step and phase, which means mana can no longer be floated from the upkeep to the draw step, nor from the declare attackers step to the declare blockers step of combat.
Meant to stay step in my first post, so my bad, but it is still a dumb rule change.
I don't really like the rule change in question but you just perfectly illustrated why they're doing it. Many people have trouble with the distinction between steps and phases.
I played a lot of black weeny decks, so using a dark ritual early in my turn and sitting on the mana until after I declare blockers was common.
I played a lot of black weeny decks, so using a dark ritual early in my turn and sitting on the mana until after I declare blockers was common.
Bless the frozen shade (or howl from beyond).
Damnit, now I miss my cards.
Why not just play the ritual when you need it, there? I'm not sure how that example applies...
Dark ritual costs one, nets three black. User two to summon something (dark knight, etc) save the last one for something else. I have even used it to pay for upkeep in a pinch and saved the one remainder for summoning.
Yes, it's one (very specific) example, but removing it removes strategy and options. I think most of these rule changes are fixing imagined problems.
I played a lot of black weeny decks, so using a dark ritual early in my turn and sitting on the mana until after I declare blockers was common.
Bless the frozen shade (or howl from beyond).
Damnit, now I miss my cards.
Why not just play the ritual when you need it, there? I'm not sure how that example applies...
Dark ritual costs one, nets three black. User two to summon something (dark knight, etc) save the last one for something else. I have even used it to pay for upkeep in a pinch and saved the one remainder for summoning.
Yes, it's one (very specific) example, but removing it removes strategy and options. I think most of these rule changes are fixing imagined problems.
You've never been able to transfer mana across from beginning of turn to first main phase, or first main to combat, or combat to second main phase.
I played a lot of black weeny decks, so using a dark ritual early in my turn and sitting on the mana until after I declare blockers was common.
Bless the frozen shade (or howl from beyond).
Damnit, now I miss my cards.
Why not just play the ritual when you need it, there? I'm not sure how that example applies...
Dark ritual costs one, nets three black. User two to summon something (dark knight, etc) save the last one for something else. I have even used it to pay for upkeep in a pinch and saved the one remainder for summoning.
Yes, it's one (very specific) example, but removing it removes strategy and options. I think most of these rule changes are fixing imagined problems.
You've never been able to transfer mana across from beginning of turn to first main phase, or first main to combat, or combat to second main phase.
Are you sure? Mana burn only hit at the end of your turn.
edit: to use the Radha exmaple: Radha attacks, you get two red mana. Combat ends, the mana is still there and can be used to summon or for an instant.
Fuck the combat rules change.
Crippling hundreds of previously playable cards and strategies that have been used constantly for the last decade is not good design.
Reminds me why I gave up buying cards.
I played a lot of black weeny decks, so using a dark ritual early in my turn and sitting on the mana until after I declare blockers was common.
Bless the frozen shade (or howl from beyond).
Damnit, now I miss my cards.
Why not just play the ritual when you need it, there? I'm not sure how that example applies...
Dark ritual costs one, nets three black. User two to summon something (dark knight, etc) save the last one for something else. I have even used it to pay for upkeep in a pinch and saved the one remainder for summoning.
Yes, it's one (very specific) example, but removing it removes strategy and options. I think most of these rule changes are fixing imagined problems.
You've never been able to transfer mana across from beginning of turn to first main phase, or first main to combat, or combat to second main phase.
Are you sure? Mana burn only hit at the end of your turn.
No. It hit at the end of each phase. That's been true from Alpha.
Crippling hundreds of previously playable cards and strategies that have been used constantly for the last decade is not good design.
So far as tournament playing goes, it doesn't reall matter much outside Extended (right term, can't remember?) tournaments, and current cycle. Next cycle will have its cards designed to follow these changes. And casual players can just say "fuck it".
Crippling hundreds of previously playable cards and strategies that have been used constantly for the last decade is not good design.
So far as tournament playing goes, it doesn't reall matter much outside Extended (right term, can't remember?) tournaments, and current cycle. Next cycle will have its cards designed to follow these changes. And casual players can just say "fuck it".
The cards will all still work, it's just that some mechanics will be stronger than before, and others will be weaker. Magic is about change - not usually through modifying the rules, sure, but what's good and what isn't is constantly shifting. That's one of the big draws for serious players - no strategy is ever dominant for very long.
The cards will all still work, it's just that some mechanics will be stronger than before, and others will be weaker. Magic is about change - not usually through modifying the rules, sure, but what's good and what isn't is constantly shifting. That's one of the big draws for serious players - no strategy is ever dominant for very long.
Yeah, but many cards were clearly designed to be abused very specific way (i.e. Mogg fanatic) that is now obsolete.
The cards will all still work, it's just that some mechanics will be stronger than before, and others will be weaker. Magic is about change - not usually through modifying the rules, sure, but what's good and what isn't is constantly shifting. That's one of the big draws for serious players - no strategy is ever dominant for very long.
Yeah, but many cards were clearly designed to be abused very specific way (i.e. Mogg fanatic) that is now obsolete.
It's amusing that you chose that example.
Mogg Fanatic was printed prior to the 6th edition rules changes. Back then, there was no damage on the stack - you couldn't kill two guys with a Fanatic when it was first printed.
And it was still really good.
Part of the reasoning behind this change, I think, is that using Mogg Fanatic or Stewie like this was that it felt like abusing the cards - it felt like a hacky rules corner-case that became the acknowledged de-facto required way of playing in far too broad a set of situations. That's not a desirable feature for a rule-set. It's easy to look at the impact and say "this is what they're taking away from us", but if you look at the two approaches to combat side by side, one of them is far more intuitive than the other. Yes, combat damage on the stack seems fine now we've been playing with it for however many years, but it really doesn't make much sense at all.
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
mogg fanatic isn't obsolete
also might get this after i find out just how much you can edit the decks
Oh shit. I'm glad there's no cards to purchase for this, or I'd lose all my savings.
There's about zero chance that if this game does even remotely well that there won't be more cards available to buy.
I'd actually be okay with it if they were available as new decks. If they started adding random packs, that'd be a problem.
That's the thing. $5 for say an expansion that adds 100 new predefined cards? Ok. (Even better if there was a way to play with banning expansion cards).
also might get this after i find out just how much you can edit the decks
Yah kind of sucks there is no custom deck option.
I will be still getting it because 800 funbucks is nothing when compared on what I have spent on those silly little papercards.(Still mad about Homelands-block).
But I have like three other xbla I need to finish (along with a few retail games), but then again those silly little cards are addicting :x
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
Oh shit. I'm glad there's no cards to purchase for this, or I'd lose all my savings.
There's about zero chance that if this game does even remotely well that there won't be more cards available to buy.
I'd actually be okay with it if they were available as new decks. If they started adding random packs, that'd be a problem.
That's the thing. $5 for say an expansion that adds 100 new predefined cards? Ok. (Even better if there was a way to play with banning expansion cards).
$5 for 15 random cards? Fuck.that.
it's 3$ for 15 real cards, so i don't see them doing that
I think retail is 3.99, but most of the shops I've gotten cards from over the years knock it down to an even $3, because I think they realize there's even better bulk deals online (like boxes for $70-80), and they need to give you a reason to keep shopping there.
I think retail is 3.99, but most of the shops I've gotten cards from over the years knock it down to an even $3, because I think they realize there's even better bulk deals online (like boxes for $70-80), and they need to give you a reason to keep shopping there.
what island are you on? i'm on oahu and every shop i've gone to is 3$ for pretty much any recent pack
I think retail is 3.99, but most of the shops I've gotten cards from over the years knock it down to an even $3, because I think they realize there's even better bulk deals online (like boxes for $70-80), and they need to give you a reason to keep shopping there.
what island are you on? i'm on oahu and every shop i've gone to is 3$ for pretty much any recent pack
Oahu. Although I haven't bought any cards out here because I can't afford it anymore.
I played a lot of black weeny decks, so using a dark ritual early in my turn and sitting on the mana until after I declare blockers was common.
Bless the frozen shade (or howl from beyond).
Damnit, now I miss my cards.
Why not just play the ritual when you need it, there? I'm not sure how that example applies...
Dark ritual costs one, nets three black. User two to summon something (dark knight, etc) save the last one for something else. I have even used it to pay for upkeep in a pinch and saved the one remainder for summoning.
Yes, it's one (very specific) example, but removing it removes strategy and options. I think most of these rule changes are fixing imagined problems.
You've never been able to transfer mana across from beginning of turn to first main phase, or first main to combat, or combat to second main phase.
Are you sure? Mana burn only hit at the end of your turn.
No. It hit at the end of each phase. That's been true from Alpha.
Pretty sure that, unless you played at official tournies, just about every group of players had a different inturperation of the rules (as it looks like I too played it wrong in a slightly different way all those years) .
This sounds good, but I would really like a digital TCG where it was like, ten bucks to download the initial game, and then every few months you could pay something like 5-10 bucks for instant access to as many copies of every card in an expansion set as you want.
Pretty sure that, unless you played at official tournies, just about every group of players had a different inturperation of the rules (as it looks like I too played it wrong in a slightly different way all those years) .
Oh yeah, I've played "Mana burn at end of turn" rules forever. And there are plenty of little things that my group does wrong/our way because the real rules can be annoying. Then when some new person tries to rules lawyer us with tourney rules (one even tried to tell me my deck wasn't tourney legal, like I care) the rest of us boo them down until they shut up and accept it.
Pretty sure that, unless you played at official tournies, just about every group of players had a different inturperation of the rules (as it looks like I too played it wrong in a slightly different way all those years) .
Oh yeah, I've played "Mana burn at end of turn" rules forever. And there are plenty of little things that my group does wrong/our way because the real rules can be annoying. Then when some new person tries to rules lawyer us with tourney rules (one even tried to tell me my deck wasn't tourney legal, like I care) the rest of us boo them down until they shut up and accept it.
I remember quitting the game after one of those situations.
This Wednesday, it's payback time.
Posts
Meant to stay step in my first post, so my bad, but it is still a dumb rule change.
I don't really like the rule change in question but you just perfectly illustrated why they're doing it. Many people have trouble with the distinction between steps and phases.
I want this game so bad; it's coming out this week?
GLEE!
This coming Wednesday. If people are interested, I'll be compiling a list in the OP of people's gamertags who want to get some online matches going.
The Pipe Vault|Twitter|Steam|Backloggery|3DS:1332-7703-1083
I don't really like the rule change in question but you just perfectly illustrated why they're doing it. Many people have trouble with the distinction between steps and phases.
I played a lot of black weeny decks, so using a dark ritual early in my turn and sitting on the mana until after I declare blockers was common.
Bless the frozen shade (or howl from beyond).
Damnit, now I miss my cards.
Dark ritual costs one, nets three black. User two to summon something (dark knight, etc) save the last one for something else. I have even used it to pay for upkeep in a pinch and saved the one remainder for summoning.
Yes, it's one (very specific) example, but removing it removes strategy and options. I think most of these rule changes are fixing imagined problems.
I am still very much looking forward to Culdcept DS though (its still coming out right? I dont have an xbox)
Are you sure? Mana burn only hit at the end of your turn.
edit: to use the Radha exmaple: Radha attacks, you get two red mana. Combat ends, the mana is still there and can be used to summon or for an instant.
Crippling hundreds of previously playable cards and strategies that have been used constantly for the last decade is not good design.
Reminds me why I gave up buying cards.
Holy shit. I have been playing that wrong for years.
I apologize and stand corrected.
So far as tournament playing goes, it doesn't reall matter much outside Extended (right term, can't remember?) tournaments, and current cycle. Next cycle will have its cards designed to follow these changes. And casual players can just say "fuck it".
Yeah, but many cards were clearly designed to be abused very specific way (i.e. Mogg fanatic) that is now obsolete.
And it was still really good.
Part of the reasoning behind this change, I think, is that using Mogg Fanatic or Stewie like this was that it felt like abusing the cards - it felt like a hacky rules corner-case that became the acknowledged de-facto required way of playing in far too broad a set of situations. That's not a desirable feature for a rule-set. It's easy to look at the impact and say "this is what they're taking away from us", but if you look at the two approaches to combat side by side, one of them is far more intuitive than the other. Yes, combat damage on the stack seems fine now we've been playing with it for however many years, but it really doesn't make much sense at all.
also might get this after i find out just how much you can edit the decks
That's the thing. $5 for say an expansion that adds 100 new predefined cards? Ok. (Even better if there was a way to play with banning expansion cards).
$5 for 15 random cards? Fuck.that.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cykstfc
I will be still getting it because 800 funbucks is nothing when compared on what I have spent on those silly little papercards.(Still mad about Homelands-block).
But I have like three other xbla I need to finish (along with a few retail games), but then again those silly little cards are addicting :x
it's 3$ for 15 real cards, so i don't see them doing that
Inflation and all that.
But they added a 16th card!
But its always a land. Or one of those tips and tricks cards (or sometimes a token card I guess)
at least, where i live
I think retail is 3.99, but most of the shops I've gotten cards from over the years knock it down to an even $3, because I think they realize there's even better bulk deals online (like boxes for $70-80), and they need to give you a reason to keep shopping there.
what island are you on? i'm on oahu and every shop i've gone to is 3$ for pretty much any recent pack
Oahu. Although I haven't bought any cards out here because I can't afford it anymore.
Son of a bitch.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Oh yeah, I've played "Mana burn at end of turn" rules forever. And there are plenty of little things that my group does wrong/our way because the real rules can be annoying. Then when some new person tries to rules lawyer us with tourney rules (one even tried to tell me my deck wasn't tourney legal, like I care) the rest of us boo them down until they shut up and accept it.
I remember quitting the game after one of those situations.
This Wednesday, it's payback time.
Twitter
That said I'm thinking I might hit this as a nice middle ground between the free trial of MtG online (too limited) and the pay version (hahaha no).