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What the fuck North Korea?

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Posts

  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus, what you are forgetting is that North Korea is already totally devestated. A decade ago the country was so wracked by famine nearly everyone and their mother starved.

    And NK-China relations are strained at best. North Korea disseminates methamphetamine and sex slaves into eastern China. China produces tons and tons of shitty products that make their way into the Korean market at very little profit, since the NK economy is basically ten million people illegallly selling each other rice.

    Indeed, I think if the west did go to war with NK, we'd have some hella staunch backing from the Chinese government. North Korea makes them look bad, and doesn't do a lot for the PROC.

    Fandyien on
    reposig.jpg
  • J3pJ3p Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I love clicking his face a bunch of times to hear the wonderful chorus of "oooooooo"s at the end

    J3p on
    +./\ 50 ?. 50
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus wrote: »
    Also on a personal note, I both want this to be over and I don't. For a little while now I've been hoping to end up in an embassy position in that region and I've recently been focusing on the Korea's. It is a weird thought to think that your career choice might be wrong because the country you are hoping to help might not be there anymore. I mean I could just shift back to US-Japanese-Chinese relations, because those are going to remain players for quite some time and they are still up and coming. But I think by the time I graduate and get into the field, something big will have happened.

    Would your studies be broad enough that you could encompass both?

    Flexible enough that you could easily switch over to U-J-C if it came down to it?

    If the North Korea thing gets too real, it could eliminate the need for diplomats able to work with North Korea. Anything short of that, though, will increase the demand drastically. Beyond that, the culture doesn't disappear just because it's political status changes, unless you're counting on total genocide both at home and abroad.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • Mr. Henry BemisMr. Henry Bemis God is love Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    it's angelic

    Mr. Henry Bemis on
    Nothing is true; Everything is permitted
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Druhim wrote: »
    wiggin you don't get to call anyone pussy
    you're like a toothless dog barking frantically at a harmless kitten because you need to feel important

    Wasn't serious!

    Me Too! on
  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I just have a WWII esque sensation about war with North Korea. Even the Chomsky within me supports military action. Why aren't we actually fighting the good fight - since we're the good guys - for once?

    Srsly

    Fandyien on
    reposig.jpg
  • tsplittertsplitter Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    just for once i would like to beat a dictator with the power of love and hugs

    tsplitter on
    FqmsaJ6.png
  • Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited June 2009
    Fandyien wrote: »
    I just have a WWII esque sensation about war with North Korea. Even the Chomsky within me supports military action. Why aren't we actually fighting the good fight - since we're the good guys - for once?

    Srsly

    Because Kim Jong Il has the funniest fuckin' haircut

    Me Too! on
  • J3pJ3p Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    and bacon supply containers

    J3p on
    +./\ 50 ?. 50
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Nuzak wrote: »
    Druhim wrote: »
    wiggin you don't get to call anyone pussy
    you're like a toothless dog barking frantically at a harmless kitten because you need to feel important

    this thing pays for itself

    Oh my god

    Grey Ghost on
  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    Grey Ghost on
  • Penguin IncarnatePenguin Incarnate King of Kafiristan Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fandyien wrote: »
    I just have a WWII esque sensation about war with North Korea. Even the Chomsky within me supports military action. Why aren't we actually fighting the good fight - since we're the good guys - for once?

    Srsly
    Fandy, would you mind if I used to term "benign bloodbath?"

    Penguin Incarnate on
  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fandyien wrote: »
    I just have a WWII esque sensation about war with North Korea. Even the Chomsky within me supports military action. Why aren't we actually fighting the good fight - since we're the good guys - for once?

    Srsly
    Fandy, would you mind if I used to term "benign bloodbath?"

    No

    Fandyien on
    reposig.jpg
  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel CopenhagenRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fandyien wrote: »
    I just have a WWII esque sensation about war with North Korea. Even the Chomsky within me supports military action. Why aren't we actually fighting the good fight - since we're the good guys - for once?

    Srsly

    Gigantic army, mountainous terrain, massive conventional fire power aimed at friendly civilians. No doubt North Korea would be dismantled right fucking quick, but the cost would be high. Also the cost is humans.

    And it's been a good long while since we've seen a successful nation building after a war.

    Peter Ebel on
    Fuck off and die.
  • Penguin IncarnatePenguin Incarnate King of Kafiristan Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fandyien wrote: »
    Fandyien wrote: »
    I just have a WWII esque sensation about war with North Korea. Even the Chomsky within me supports military action. Why aren't we actually fighting the good fight - since we're the good guys - for once?

    Srsly
    Fandy, would you mind if I used to term "benign bloodbath?"

    No
    Well, I'm still not going to.

    Penguin Incarnate on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    The vast majority of wars throughout history were of this sort. It's nothing new.

    Even most modern wars were like this. WWII was just such an extreme counterexample that it colors our perception of a just war nearly in the absolute.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fandyien wrote: »
    Artreus, what you are forgetting is that North Korea is already totally devestated. A decade ago the country was so wracked by famine nearly everyone and their mother starved.

    And NK-China relations are strained at best. North Korea disseminates methamphetamine and sex slaves into eastern China. China produces tons and tons of shitty products that make their way into the Korean market at very little profit, since the NK economy is basically ten million people illegallly selling each other rice.

    Indeed, I think if the west did go to war with NK, we'd have some hella staunch backing from the Chinese government. North Korea makes them look bad, and doesn't do a lot for the PROC.

    Oh, my entire point was that North Korea is so devastated that if whatever the hell it has going for it collapses, everybody around it will have to pick up the tab, which they have thus far avoided having to pay for. And I'm well aware of the famine, it got so bad the government even let people set up free market farms out in the countryside for a while.

    And as far as the NK-China thing, I wasn't saying China would fight on North Korea's side so much as they would do what they have been trying to do for a while and that is absorb North Korea. They have already been teaching that North Korea is actually historically Chinese in the borderland areas for a while now, so something is shaping up in that regard. My concern there was that China would try to get a cut of South Korea under the guise of helping mop up the North's forces. So I'm not saying China would at all come in on North Korea's side in a big fight.

    And by devastate North Korea I meant take out it's capability to wage war. It has zero to little capability to wage a prolonged war of any kind, it's danger lies in causing a lot of damage in a short period of time. What I was saying is that right now, we have the power to wipe out their military. But as we have both pointed out, their economy is so close to non-existent at this point that if the house of cards comes tumbling down, everybody in the region is going to have to pick up the check, which would be bad under the best of circumstances, and it even worse in today's economy.

    So, I'm saying that while China would not attack us necessarily, they might try pulling some shifty shit I am not entirely comfortable with. They would most definitely contribute arms to the fight, but the end result would be messy as hell.

    I need to stress how bad a collapse of the North Korean regime as it stands would be. While something does need to be done, it would be incredibly expensive to rebuild the country or even just take care of all the refugees. While it might be the humanitarian thing to do for the citizens of the North, it would fuck up the economies of the surrounding nation's something Fierce. Even China, with the enormous economy that it has would be hurt pretty badly.

    Also fuzz, my main focus has actually been in Japanese culture and history, with some general political science thrown in. The North Korean focus has only been a recent passion of mine and it was something I wanted to start doing more. It would not be very hard to switch back to Japan and China, especially since my language training in Japanese and Chinese have had more success so far.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    The vast majority of wars throughout history were of this sort. It's nothing new.

    Even most modern wars were like this. WWII was just such an extreme counterexample that it colors our perception of a just war nearly in the absolute.

    Even then, you have shit like the bombing of Dresden that makes you go ":(" again.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    The vast majority of wars throughout history were of this sort. It's nothing new.

    Even most modern wars were like this. WWII was just such an extreme counterexample that it colors our perception of a just war nearly in the absolute.

    Even then, you have shit like the bombing of Dresden that makes you go ":(" again.

    The methods were somewhat ambiguous, but the causes were significantly less so. One both fronts, there was a clear aggressor without reasonable cause accompanied by inhumane behavior in the extreme.

    Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki play major roles in keeping it away from an absolutely black and white situation, but aren't nearly enough to make it nearly as gray as the norm.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    The vast majority of wars throughout history were of this sort. It's nothing new.

    Even most modern wars were like this. WWII was just such an extreme counterexample that it colors our perception of a just war nearly in the absolute.

    Even then, you have shit like the bombing of Dresden that makes you go ":(" again.

    The methods were somewhat ambiguous, but the causes were significantly less so. One both fronts, there was a clear aggressor without reasonable cause accompanied by inhumane behavior in the extreme.

    Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki play major roles in keeping it away from an absolutely black and white situation, but aren't nearly enough to make it nearly as gray as the norm.

    Hiroshima was much, much less grey in my opinion than Dresden and Nagasaki.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus wrote: »
    Artreus wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    The vast majority of wars throughout history were of this sort. It's nothing new.

    Even most modern wars were like this. WWII was just such an extreme counterexample that it colors our perception of a just war nearly in the absolute.

    Even then, you have shit like the bombing of Dresden that makes you go ":(" again.

    The methods were somewhat ambiguous, but the causes were significantly less so. One both fronts, there was a clear aggressor without reasonable cause accompanied by inhumane behavior in the extreme.

    Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki play major roles in keeping it away from an absolutely black and white situation, but aren't nearly enough to make it nearly as gray as the norm.

    Hiroshima was much, much less grey in my opinion than Dresden and Nagasaki.

    I think they all ended up pretty grey afterwards! Ho ho!!!


    Too soon? :?

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    We sure fucked shit up in Japan.

    Gafoto on
    sierracrest.jpg
  • Zombies Tossed My Salad!Zombies Tossed My Salad! Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Oh snap

    Zombies Tossed My Salad! on
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    and yet now they are one of the most successful modern nations on the planet

    clearly the answer is to nuke Africa

    MrMonroe on
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    and yet now they are one of the most successful modern nations on the planet

    clearly the answer is to nuke Africa

    You do that and an entire generation of Kenyans are gonna grow up masturbating to comics of fourteen headed lions fucking women who look like 13 year old white girls.

    Gafoto on
    sierracrest.jpg
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] regular
    edited June 2009
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    [Deleted User] on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I read an interesting article on Ethiopia years ago that proposed that international aid was perpetuating starvation by easing immediate concerns to the point that it creates an increase in birth rates without providing the infrastructure to support the resulting population.

    In short, I'm with Monroe.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    In The Man In the High Castle the third reich exterminates all of Africa and makes the remaining negroes slaves

    Fandyien on
    reposig.jpg
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    and yet now they are one of the most successful modern nations on the planet

    clearly the answer is to nuke Africa

    We might wipe out all sorts of nasty diseases in the process.
    Of course, we'll end up creating some new nasty bastard that wipes out the human race, but that's just our luck.

    Edit: Or maybe Karma for nuking Africa. One of those. Pick.

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Fandyien wrote: »
    In The Man In the High Castle the third reich exterminates all of Africa and makes the remaining negroes slaves
    Europe did that in the 19th century.

    Gafoto on
    sierracrest.jpg
  • FandyienFandyien But Otto, what about us? Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Gafoto wrote: »
    Fandyien wrote: »
    In The Man In the High Castle the third reich exterminates all of Africa and makes the remaining negroes slaves
    Europe did that in the 19th century.

    They didn't do a very good job

    Fandyien on
    reposig.jpg
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Thawmus wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    and yet now they are one of the most successful modern nations on the planet

    clearly the answer is to nuke Africa

    We might wipe out all sorts of nasty diseases in the process.
    Of course, we'll end up creating some new nasty bastard that wipes out the human race, but that's just our luck.

    Edit: Or maybe Karma for nuking Africa. One of those. Pick.
    Pretty sure the nuclear fallout from nuking the entire continent would be karma enough.

    Gafoto on
    sierracrest.jpg
  • AMP'dAMP'd Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    No, the karma system doesn't come into play until after the game starts

    AMP'd on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    I read an interesting article on Ethiopia years ago that proposed that international aid was perpetuating starvation by easing immediate concerns to the point that it creates an increase in birth rates without providing the infrastructure to support the resulting population.

    In short, I'm with Monroe.

    This is pretty much it. All of the aid we are sending to Africa is only prolonging the problem since we are doing jack shit to put in place infrastructure for functioning countries. I mean there are other concerns that are preventing that from happening anyway ie: warlords.

    edit: there was something else important here that I was going to say, but I forget it.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • Ol' SparkyOl' Sparky Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    The unfortunate thing is that there never really has been. As someone who enjoys studying (fuck that comes off as pretentious but basically I read a lot of books about it, okay) the dubyadubya 2 as a hobby it was never as a black and white as it is remembered in the countries that won. It is however about as close as its gotten to good vs. evil.

    Ol' Sparky on
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Ol' Sparky wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    There are no good guys
    There are no bad guys

    We'll never again have a war that is almost universally agreed to be necessary to stop the spread of real evil

    It's all just shades of gray in this world

    The unfortunate thing is that there never really has been. As someone who enjoys studying (fuck that comes off as pretentious but basically I read a lot of books about it, okay) the dubyadubya 2 as a hobby it was never as a black and white as it is remembered in the countries that won. It is however about as close as its gotten to good vs. evil.

    The principles were pretty black and white, the execution, not so much.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus wrote: »
    I read an interesting article on Ethiopia years ago that proposed that international aid was perpetuating starvation by easing immediate concerns to the point that it creates an increase in birth rates without providing the infrastructure to support the resulting population.

    In short, I'm with Monroe.

    This is pretty much it. All of the aid we are sending to Africa is only prolonging the problem since we are doing jack shit to put in place infrastructure for functioning countries. I mean there are other concerns that are preventing that from happening anyway ie: warlords.

    Exactly.

    We'll reduce the population to levels sustainable with current infrastructure, then pull out all aid so that the birth rate remains more in line with the country's ability to sustain growth.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus wrote: »
    I read an interesting article on Ethiopia years ago that proposed that international aid was perpetuating starvation by easing immediate concerns to the point that it creates an increase in birth rates without providing the infrastructure to support the resulting population.

    In short, I'm with Monroe.

    This is pretty much it. All of the aid we are sending to Africa is only prolonging the problem since we are doing jack shit to put in place infrastructure for functioning countries. I mean there are other concerns that are preventing that from happening anyway ie: warlords.

    Exactly.

    We'll reduce the population to levels sustainable with current infrastructure, then pull out all aid so that the birth rate remains more in line with the country's ability to sustain growth.

    Er. I was agreeing with the assessment of the problem, not the solution. Although I'm pretty sure we are all joking here I am still uncomfortable with "olol nuke Africa"

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited June 2009
    Artreus wrote: »
    I read an interesting article on Ethiopia years ago that proposed that international aid was perpetuating starvation by easing immediate concerns to the point that it creates an increase in birth rates without providing the infrastructure to support the resulting population.

    In short, I'm with Monroe.

    This is pretty much it. All of the aid we are sending to Africa is only prolonging the problem since we are doing jack shit to put in place infrastructure for functioning countries. I mean there are other concerns that are preventing that from happening anyway ie: warlords.

    Exactly.

    We'll reduce the population to levels sustainable with current infrastructure, then pull out all aid so that the birth rate remains more in line with the country's ability to sustain growth.

    I think we should pull out the aid before we do the population reduction. Just out of courtesy...

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
This discussion has been closed.