Shit, it's like they're some sort of business company or something. But who knows, I keep forgetting I'm talking to a forum full of people with open door access to the goings-on at Valve.
Left 4 Dead, set for release on PC and Xbox 360 on November 21 in Europe, is primarily a four-player cooperative game that sees a group of Survivors battle through four 'Movies' and against 28 Days Later-style zombies called The Infected.
Newell said that Valve's support of the game post-launch will be essential for growing the community.
He said: "One of the things that we're doing is we seem to be in a transition between games as a package product and games more of a service. So if you look at Team Fortress 2, one of things that's really helped grow the community is the continuous updates, where we release new maps, new character classes, new unlockables, new weapons. And we tell the stories about the characters, like the meet the sniper, or meet the sandwich. And that ongoing delivery of content really seems to grow the community.
"So each time we've released one of those for Team Fortress 2 we've seen about a 20% increase in the number of people who are playing online. And that number is really important because it determines how many community created maps there are, how many servers are running, and so on. So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."
For those who aren't familiar with Gabe Newell, he's the "Managing director of Valve Corporation" and one of the founders way back in 1996 when he was working on a little game called Half Life. Normally, when you hear someone this high up say something, you expect it to stick. Talk all you want about it's their right to do it, because it is; it's their right to dick over customers and lie to them to get them to buy a game, just as it's also their right to go back on their word. It's also our right to get pissed right back and tell them this isn't how you treat your fan-base.
It's more than a right, if Valve sees that this is a viable business model over their current one that is being successfully used with team fortress 2 (notice the 20% increase every content patch), it increases the likelihood to see progressive game design and community outreach like we've seen to date coming from Valve.
Which is not a direction most of us (you may be the outlier Elliot) would like to see the industry go.
There's no advantage whatsoever to using the hunting rifle at close range instead of an autoshotty. You can't be moving while firing or the bullets practically go sideways. That is a serious problem. It's useful to have one in Campaign because it's great at picking off zombies at a distance which is how you survive Expert. It sucks balls in Versus where moving fast all the time is the name of the game. If you want to be able to shoot stuff far away, the assault rifle is plenty good at that.
IMHO they should just buff the hunting rifle's accuracy in Versus. Make it so the moment you let go of a direction it's accurate.
That's assuming your actually scoping at close range, which as another poster already said: you shouldn't be.
I'm guessing you're playing on console? I've heard the HR is A LOT harder to aim and use, as all all sniper rifles, on the console version, but in pc you can pretty much keep everything at 50 yards with a team of 4 solid snipers; mostly because they aren't scoping even at what most would consider long range.
There's no advantage whatsoever to using the hunting rifle at close range instead of an autoshotty. You can't be moving while firing or the bullets practically go sideways. That is a serious problem. It's useful to have one in Campaign because it's great at picking off zombies at a distance which is how you survive Expert. It sucks balls in Versus where moving fast all the time is the name of the game. If you want to be able to shoot stuff far away, the assault rifle is plenty good at that.
IMHO they should just buff the hunting rifle's accuracy in Versus. Make it so the moment you let go of a direction it's accurate.
That's assuming your actually scoping at close range, which as another poster already said: you shouldn't be.
I'm guessing you're playing on console? I've heard the HR is A LOT harder to aim and use, as all all sniper rifles, on the console version, but in pc you can pretty much keep everything at 50 yards with a team of 4 solid snipers; mostly because they aren't scoping even at range.
From what I've seen and experienced, HR is simply inferior to the AR and AS in VS. Increased reload times, along with a low rate of fire, gives you such a tiny margin for error that its weaknesses outweigh its strengths. Time efficiency is so important that it's just easier to shottie everything close in and keep moving.
There's no advantage whatsoever to using the hunting rifle at close range instead of an autoshotty. You can't be moving while firing or the bullets practically go sideways. That is a serious problem. It's useful to have one in Campaign because it's great at picking off zombies at a distance which is how you survive Expert. It sucks balls in Versus where moving fast all the time is the name of the game. If you want to be able to shoot stuff far away, the assault rifle is plenty good at that.
IMHO they should just buff the hunting rifle's accuracy in Versus. Make it so the moment you let go of a direction it's accurate.
That's assuming your actually scoping at close range, which as another poster already said: you shouldn't be.
I'm guessing you're playing on console? I've heard the HR is A LOT harder to aim and use, as all all sniper rifles, on the console version, but in pc you can pretty much keep everything at 50 yards with a team of 4 solid snipers; mostly because they aren't scoping even at range.
From what I've seen and experienced, HR is simply inferior to the AR and AS in VS. Increased reload times, along with a low rate of fire, gives you such a tiny margin for error that its weaknesses outweigh its strengths. Time efficiency is so important that it's just easier to shottie everything close in and keep moving.
Why at every point I've claimed it's skill based. Using the HR effectively is about overcoming those weaknesses for it's 3 strengths: ammo efficiency, stopping power, and accuracy.
The reason why I say" solid" or "skilled" sniper in every post talking about this, is simply because the HR has a very large learning curve. You can not spray and pray as you can with the other guns. You have to keep calm and relaxed, picking off targets as they become he highest priority. It's rare, because even one person who's spent the time to learn how to snipe already is, but 4 people doing this can and have dominated even the best versus matches.
Most players pick up the HR and experience that learning curve versus the other weapons and assume this is because it's a poor choice for a weapon. Instead, the HR is the most effective, but at the same time the hardest to use properly.
You're right, it's a gun that leaves very little margin for error, which of course is a VERY strong deterrent for most gamers.
And I'm also not arguing it's the gun for everyone. This is all about a question posed earlier about just this gun.
And yes, using the HR properly in versus against using it in champaign has it's own learning curve as well, on top the one already existing from the mode transition. This only furthers most players apprehension to use this gun exclusively.
Why at every point I've claimed it's skill based. Using the HR effectively is about overcoming those weaknesses for it's 3 strengths: ammo efficiency, stopping power, and accuracy.
The reason why I say" solid" or "skilled" sniper in every post talking about this simply because the HR has a very large learning curve. You can not spray and pray as you can with the other guns. You have to keep calm and relaxed, picking off targets as they become he highest priority. It's rare, because even one person who's spent the time to learn how to snipe already is, but 4 people doing this can and have dominated even the best versus matches.
Most players pick up the HR and experience that learning curve versus the other weapons and assume this is because it's a poor choice for a weapon. Instead, the HR is the most effective, but at the same time the hardest to use properly.
And yes, using the HR properly in versus against using it in champaign has it's own learning curve as well, on top the one already existing from the mode transition. This only furthers most players apprehension to use this gun exclusively.
Interesting. I'd like to see this in action. I'll try to organize a scrim or something this weekend, if you'd be down to show me?
Interesting. I'd like to see this in action. I'll try to organize a scrim or something this weekend, if you'd be down to show me?
Sadly, I'm not free this weekend, but I'll PM you on the forums when I am. I'm always happy to play some L4D with the PA crowd.
Sounds good. You probably won't be playing against me (I'll spec but jump in if someone needs a break) but against some of my clanmates who play competitively. I'm sure the PA crowd can put together a great team based on what I've seen so far!
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
So it seems Left 4 Dead on steam has been replaced with Left 4 Dead GOTY edition.
Is this news, or am I late? And what exactly makes it game of the year edition?
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
You get the free update in the box?
Funnily enough, the regular boxed version is ten dollars cheaper at best buy 30 instead of 40 (i believe). So anyone who wants a boxed copy but doesn't want to pay full price should check that out asap.
I assume it would be 4 v 4, with one team being PA people and the other my clannies.
They all use AR or AS so I'm sure they'd be intrigued to see the HR in action. Although they might show their interest by mocking you mercilessly (they're mean like that, hehe).
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
You can't just pick me like that man, you've got to earn it!
So what's all this about an all HR run in VS? I thought that was normally reserved for pub stomps :P
The hunting rifle is great and all, but it fails the at the most important aspect of a successful VS run: Speed. No GOOD team I've ever seen playing as survivors every sticks around long enough to run out of ammo or encounter such a glut of zombies that they need stopping power beyond what the 2 other main weapons are capable of.
VS is about minimizing the total damage you take during a round. And I've found no better way of doing that then giving the infected team as few chances to ambush your team as possible. The hunting rifle is great for handling expert hordes in co-op, but it absolutely fails to reach its potential in a properly played VS match.
Get your Campaign On
June 19, 2009 - Yasser Malaika
We're pretty excited about this next Left 4 Dead update, and we hope you will be as well. Since the Left 4 Dead Authoring Tools Beta was released several weeks ago, mod authors have been cooking with gas, so to speak. The ranks of dedicated community members working hard to create new content have been swelling, and a very hungry horde awaits...
We've long believed that Left 4 Dead should fully support community content, and we've been hard at work enhancing the UI and matchmaking systems to provide full support for your creations. The latest update, which will be available via Steam next week, is focused on custom campaigns. It introduces several key features:
Add-Ons
Third party campaigns are designed to be installed using a new Add-On framework. Content authors will be able to package up their new maps, along with new posters, models, and textures, into a single .VPK file. To install and activate this content in-game, players need simply download the .VPK and double click on it. Alternatively, they will be able to drop it into a new "addons" folder. The list of installed add-ons will be viewable from a new item on the 'Extras' main menu flyout.
(Image here showing the extras-->add-ons suboption in the main-menu)
Matchmaking
Because Left 4 Dead is all about sharing, we've re-tooled Left 4 Dead's matchmaking system to provide extensive support for custom add-on campaigns. When creating or searching for a lobby, a new option named "Add-on campaign" will let you select from among the add-on campaigns that you have installed. You can then find games or lobbies as well as create a lobby for that campaign. You can invite your friends, too. If they do not have the campaign installed, they will automatically be offered and an option to download it.
(Image here showing the campaign->add-on campaign suboption for joining/creating campaigns)
We've also made it easier to create lobbies by adding a 'Create Lobby' option directly from the 'Play Online' menu. Once you're ready to go, the new matchmaking system will automatically try to find any dedicated servers nearby that have the custom add-on campaign installed, or you can make your own local server.
Authoring Tools
We're also officially releasing the Authoring tools/SDK. Thanks to all who provided feedback during the open beta, the authoring tools have been updated with a few fixes and several new additions, including:
* The tutorial_standards map has been expanded into a minimal example campaign add-on called 'Dead Line'
* A new command line utility for creating and extracting from .VPK files
* Source files for all the official campaign maps
Also, look for a new tutorial on how to package up your campaigns into add-ons on the Developer Community wiki.
Have fun!
No 4v4 match-making? No news on L4D2? I'm rather underwhelmed...
Get your Campaign On
June 19, 2009 - Yasser Malaika
We're pretty excited about this next Left 4 Dead update, and we hope you will be as well. Since the Left 4 Dead Authoring Tools Beta was released several weeks ago, mod authors have been cooking with gas, so to speak. The ranks of dedicated community members working hard to create new content have been swelling, and a very hungry horde awaits...
We've long believed that Left 4 Dead should fully support community content, and we've been hard at work enhancing the UI and matchmaking systems to provide full support for your creations. The latest update, which will be available via Steam next week, is focused on custom campaigns. It introduces several key features:
Add-Ons
Third party campaigns are designed to be installed using a new Add-On framework. Content authors will be able to package up their new maps, along with new posters, models, and textures, into a single .VPK file. To install and activate this content in-game, players need simply download the .VPK and double click on it. Alternatively, they will be able to drop it into a new "addons" folder. The list of installed add-ons will be viewable from a new item on the 'Extras' main menu flyout.
(Image here showing the extras-->add-ons suboption in the main-menu)
Matchmaking
Because Left 4 Dead is all about sharing, we've re-tooled Left 4 Dead's matchmaking system to provide extensive support for custom add-on campaigns. When creating or searching for a lobby, a new option named "Add-on campaign" will let you select from among the add-on campaigns that you have installed. You can then find games or lobbies as well as create a lobby for that campaign. You can invite your friends, too. If they do not have the campaign installed, they will automatically be offered and an option to download it.
(Image here showing the campaign->add-on campaign suboption for joining/creating campaigns)
We've also made it easier to create lobbies by adding a 'Create Lobby' option directly from the 'Play Online' menu. Once you're ready to go, the new matchmaking system will automatically try to find any dedicated servers nearby that have the custom add-on campaign installed, or you can make your own local server.
Authoring Tools
We're also officially releasing the Authoring tools/SDK. Thanks to all who provided feedback during the open beta, the authoring tools have been updated with a few fixes and several new additions, including:
* The tutorial_standards map has been expanded into a minimal example campaign add-on called 'Dead Line'
* A new command line utility for creating and extracting from .VPK files
* Source files for all the official campaign maps
Also, look for a new tutorial on how to package up your campaigns into add-ons on the Developer Community wiki.
Have fun!
No 4v4 match-making? No news on L4D2? I'm rather underwhelmed...
i am too, they've been building up to 4v4 match-making for so long, it's weird that they aren't releasing it when they have hyped it like it's been ready for a while.
and the fact that 4v4 match-making will really fix this game up in terms of vs mode
Oh come on, guys, that is some grade A implementation of custom content right there.
The last update was a multiplayer one. As soon as it becomes apparent what the great campaigns are, the single player mode is going to get a good boost and you can bet that PA will quickly find and play the best quality stuff.
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
edited June 2009
guys?
griefing Antithesis by passing "his" pills to everyone but him on nm5 has just been the funniest thing.
edit: before anyone thinks we were doing "serious" greifing, Anti had like, 80+ hp at the time i'm fairly sure.
griefing Antithesis by passing "his" pills to everyone but him on nm5 has just been the funniest thing.
damnit i found them they were mine!
If you found them how did I grab them first? It appears that I have found them first! I still don't know how you ended up with them by the end of the finale.
It is known that because it would be extremely difficult to release DLC to the Xbox, with issues concerning Microsoft and now EA with L4D2, it isn't as easy as PC users downloading the update and BAM, that's the update. There's stupid copyright stuff and hardware issues.
With console users, apparently the issue is not everyone will have this stuff downloaded, the new skins, the new maps, etc etc, so there would be issues somehow.
I'm not sure where I read this, but a couple of people told me this is the reason why it was fffffffff.
Also, that Adam guy obviously doesn't play L4D or know much about it, because at the end he also says he'd love to hear more about it and why do we feel so entitled and selfish?
If he had stuck with updates as close as us, he'd understand why we feel "entitled".
or perhaps he just doesn't agree with you
you're letting your emotions cloud your judgment
This is more of a guess, and I hate responding for someone else but...
From what I remember reading in an interview it was not openly admitted that the sole reason that L4D2 is because of consoles. BUT they do explain things about how much trouble they are having with the 360's different versions and I remember something in particular about 8 megs of memory for those without hard drives.
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NappuccinoSurveyor of Things and StuffRegistered Userregular
griefing Antithesis by passing "his" pills to everyone but him on nm5 has just been the funniest thing.
damnit i found them they were mine!
If you found them how did I grab them first? It appears that I have found them first! I still don't know how you ended up with them by the end of the finale.
That was a mystery. The three of us sweared we didn't give it to him. I can only imagine that Anti plucked them from the air with his all-mighty satellite connection :P
This is more of a guess, and I hate responding for someone else but...
From what I remember reading in an interview it was not openly admitted that the sole reason that L4D2 is because of consoles. BUT they do explain things about how much trouble they are having with the 360's different versions and I remember something in particular about 8 megs of memory for those without hard drives.
Yea I should have pointed that out. They never said it was the sole reason, but they did follow up with that statement with a 3 paragraph summary of why and why not it would work.
Posts
someone is getting $300 together to get duke nukem to record all of zoey's lines
That voice actor sounds like a cool guy
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Taken from the first page btw
For those who aren't familiar with Gabe Newell, he's the "Managing director of Valve Corporation" and one of the founders way back in 1996 when he was working on a little game called Half Life. Normally, when you hear someone this high up say something, you expect it to stick. Talk all you want about it's their right to do it, because it is; it's their right to dick over customers and lie to them to get them to buy a game, just as it's also their right to go back on their word. It's also our right to get pissed right back and tell them this isn't how you treat your fan-base.
It's more than a right, if Valve sees that this is a viable business model over their current one that is being successfully used with team fortress 2 (notice the 20% increase every content patch), it increases the likelihood to see progressive game design and community outreach like we've seen to date coming from Valve.
Which is not a direction most of us (you may be the outlier Elliot) would like to see the industry go.
Holy shit
She has to say BALLS OF STEEL at some point though
EDIT hey guys i'm gonna be cool and keep trying to stir some shit up
I did not realize that Duke Nukem also voiced Big the Cat.
That is hilarious.
Are you kidding me
Wow
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
My new tank theme
3ds Friend Code: 1375-7311-7639
I want to replace all the music cues with it.
That's assuming your actually scoping at close range, which as another poster already said: you shouldn't be.
I'm guessing you're playing on console? I've heard the HR is A LOT harder to aim and use, as all all sniper rifles, on the console version, but in pc you can pretty much keep everything at 50 yards with a team of 4 solid snipers; mostly because they aren't scoping even at what most would consider long range.
From what I've seen and experienced, HR is simply inferior to the AR and AS in VS. Increased reload times, along with a low rate of fire, gives you such a tiny margin for error that its weaknesses outweigh its strengths. Time efficiency is so important that it's just easier to shottie everything close in and keep moving.
The reason why I say" solid" or "skilled" sniper in every post talking about this, is simply because the HR has a very large learning curve. You can not spray and pray as you can with the other guns. You have to keep calm and relaxed, picking off targets as they become he highest priority. It's rare, because even one person who's spent the time to learn how to snipe already is, but 4 people doing this can and have dominated even the best versus matches.
Most players pick up the HR and experience that learning curve versus the other weapons and assume this is because it's a poor choice for a weapon. Instead, the HR is the most effective, but at the same time the hardest to use properly.
You're right, it's a gun that leaves very little margin for error, which of course is a VERY strong deterrent for most gamers.
And I'm also not arguing it's the gun for everyone. This is all about a question posed earlier about just this gun.
And yes, using the HR properly in versus against using it in champaign has it's own learning curve as well, on top the one already existing from the mode transition. This only furthers most players apprehension to use this gun exclusively.
Interesting. I'd like to see this in action. I'll try to organize a scrim or something this weekend, if you'd be down to show me?
Sadly, I'm not free this weekend, but I'll PM you on the forums when I am. I'm always happy to play some L4D with the PA crowd.
Sounds good. You probably won't be playing against me (I'll spec but jump in if someone needs a break) but against some of my clanmates who play competitively. I'm sure the PA crowd can put together a great team based on what I've seen so far!
Is this news, or am I late? And what exactly makes it game of the year edition?
Funnily enough, the regular boxed version is ten dollars cheaper at best buy 30 instead of 40 (i believe). So anyone who wants a boxed copy but doesn't want to pay full price should check that out asap.
I assume it would be 4 v 4, with one team being PA people and the other my clannies.
They all use AR or AS so I'm sure they'd be intrigued to see the HR in action. Although they might show their interest by mocking you mercilessly (they're mean like that, hehe).
You can't just pick me like that man, you've got to earn it!
So what's all this about an all HR run in VS? I thought that was normally reserved for pub stomps :P
The hunting rifle is great and all, but it fails the at the most important aspect of a successful VS run: Speed. No GOOD team I've ever seen playing as survivors every sticks around long enough to run out of ammo or encounter such a glut of zombies that they need stopping power beyond what the 2 other main weapons are capable of.
VS is about minimizing the total damage you take during a round. And I've found no better way of doing that then giving the infected team as few chances to ambush your team as possible. The hunting rifle is great for handling expert hordes in co-op, but it absolutely fails to reach its potential in a properly played VS match.
No 4v4 match-making? No news on L4D2? I'm rather underwhelmed...
That's fucking awesome.
EDIT Do you have a link to download the mp3 for that?
i am too, they've been building up to 4v4 match-making for so long, it's weird that they aren't releasing it when they have hyped it like it's been ready for a while.
and the fact that 4v4 match-making will really fix this game up in terms of vs mode
The last update was a multiplayer one. As soon as it becomes apparent what the great campaigns are, the single player mode is going to get a good boost and you can bet that PA will quickly find and play the best quality stuff.
griefing Antithesis by passing "his" pills to everyone but him on nm5 has just been the funniest thing.
edit: before anyone thinks we were doing "serious" greifing, Anti had like, 80+ hp at the time i'm fairly sure.
damnit i found them they were mine!
(sorry, but it was just so damn funny
If you found them how did I grab them first? It appears that I have found them first! I still don't know how you ended up with them by the end of the finale.
This is more of a guess, and I hate responding for someone else but...
From what I remember reading in an interview it was not openly admitted that the sole reason that L4D2 is because of consoles. BUT they do explain things about how much trouble they are having with the 360's different versions and I remember something in particular about 8 megs of memory for those without hard drives.
That was a mystery. The three of us sweared we didn't give it to him. I can only imagine that Anti plucked them from the air with his all-mighty satellite connection :P
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
...i think.
The actual next week or valve time next week?
I'm going to count on valve time next week and be pleasantly surprised when/if it arrives earlier than that.
If that doesn't work out, I can give you plenty of things to make fun of him about.