It's always good to see the PA:AC come together to help some new comickers improve their work. I can't really say that I have anything original to add (Manonvon usually takes care of what I intended to say), but I can offer some advice to dealing with the critiques of this place. The AC has a reputation for being either extremely harsh (with tons of useful information thrown in for good measure) or full of praise. There's hardly a middle ground. If they don't have an opinion on your work, they simply don't reply (I've experienced that response myself many times). The fact that there has been a strong reaction to your work means they've found some potential for improvement in your work, or you've made some inexcusable but easily fixed gaffe. There are some simple problems with your work, and they have been identified. Your next step is not to defend your work, but to give those problems some attention and try to fix them. I've had work painted over and completely reworked by some of the more industrious members here as a lesson on improvement. These people care about your comic and they truly want you to improve. Don't get defensive. Don't tell them what you WANTED when you asked 'What do you think of my comic?'. Rather, take their critiques to heart and give serious thought to altering your comic forumla accordingly. These guys are considered the high council of webcomic critique -- you'd do well to listen to what they say.
That said, take what they say with a grain of salt. Sometimes they're wrong, or they completely misread your intentions. Make sure that you still understand who your audience is, and if the advice of the AC conflicts with what you believe your audience would appreciate, feel free to disregard that advice.
Usually they're pretty spot on, though.
I don't think people are really reading what i've been posting here- maybe if i bold and cap the important parts the people who skip to the messages they want to read won't be repeating themselves. we are THANKFUL for the HELP that has been GIVEN and WE'VE APPLIED IT to our comic, seriously though- we have taken the comments to heart and have gained an understanding and i can't say enough (in EVERY single post) that we are very THANKFUL- again - THANKFUL and APPRECIATIVE- one more time? WE ARE THANKFUL AND APPRECIATIVE AND WE'VE ALREADY BEGUN TO MAKE CHANGES BASED ON YOUR COMMENTS- THANK YOU! FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART- THANK YOU. It's not we're casting the comments to the wind here, but you're skipping posts and reading what you want and i would expect more out of the 'High Council of Webcomc Critique' .
I agree with what you've written here- but i do feel the need to defend some aspects of what we're doing- i didn't bring up the debate of originality nor am i using art history as an easy pass to slide on originality- if you read my previous posts i'm merely stating that i believe what we're doing is original, we created it didn't we? Or doesn't that count? The question of originality seems to be up for debate in regards to what we're doing, so i'm responding to that with my honest feelings. I'm not opposed to changes or the comments- again- we've taken them seriously! We've begun to make changes! I can't stress that fact enough but it appears i have to get the point across.
I didn't specifically ask for a critique on the website, even though it comes with the territory- we know it has problems and we are going to work on them, and my thanks to those who've commented about it.
Yeah, I think it's mostly the other guy there getting defensive and trying to mold critique into what he would like to hear. Not a good respone to even nitpicking criticism.
i have to ask, why is this thread in the AC and not the writers' block or something?
i mean if its crits on the art you're looking for, why are the people who actually draw the thing not joining in here?
the arguments you're bringing up are quite frankly more suited to FINE ART(TM) than they are to a webcomic
i mean the discussions about "can an idea be truly original" etc. are all well and good if you're coming up with finely-wrought masterpieces chock-full of symbolism, but seriously you're making a webcomic
also, uh, where are all of the comics? theres an awful lot of history mentioned on the site (including lines like "he jumped on the Backspace bandwagon in 2006"); are there only 11 comics (unless i'm missing something)?
sorry if this seems harsh or anything, its just you seem to be treating it like you're guaranteed to become RAGING successes, and everyone is begging for wordy explanations, but there really isn't that much to soliloquise about?
- They are on here, the primary illustrator is on vacation- i'm funneling comments via email to him. Sorry, but i'm not making the poor guy go check a forum on his personal time.
- Arguments are suited for this i believe, fine art / art makes no difference, it's still art.
- There's only 11 comics up. As mentioned previously, we're still in infancy and working out the kinks. We release one comic a week and have several illustrated and written in advance with an every increasing supply- we do this to stay ahead of the game as there are times when we just can't get a comic done because we all work full time jobs and ya'know have a life outside of the internet, it is summer after all
- Nope, i don't find it harsh- pretty accustomed to it at this point XD We take pride in our work, so why wouldn't we treat it like a raging success? Don't you put everything you have into what you do? It's pretty sad if you don't. I'm not saying it's going to be success, i never stated that here, no, not at all. And nowhere did i state that i'm begging for a wordy explanation, in fact- i've just let everyone comment as they see fit and responded accordingly to what i felt was important. There isn't much to comment on, but i posted the images on here as those were the ones i wanted to focus on for the time being.
I think i've about got what i'm going to get out of this run on the thread, until i can post some new images and get some new feedback.
Thanks again all. very much appreciated, we'll be continuing to implement the improvements you've pointed out. Thank you again for your suggestions and your time.
Yeah, I think it's mostly the other guy there getting defensive and trying to mold critique into what he would like to hear. Not a good respone to even nitpicking criticism.
It is what it is- he's got open ears, but we're starting to run into repeats of what we've already heard. I can't blame him there, so unless there's anything new that hasn't yet been mentioned...
Wow, that last reply was sort of douchey. You do realize that people pick your comic apart to help you, right?
For free, even.
And some of them are tremendously talented at what they do.
Yeah I am a douche! That's the awesomeness of a 5th grader. I'm rubber and your glue what ever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. There really is a difference between picking a part at critiquing. We never said any one wasn't talented and honestly we take the good from the bad. Are comments back have really been for the people just blasting without a valid point. So I will take what I have and leave it be. I am walking away so not to start a feud. I hope you continue to follow our comic and give feedback when we make changes. Thank you and good day.
What I was trying to imply was that you should SHOW the changes you've begun to initiate. Visually. Like a picture or something. "This is what we've changed." That sort of thing. People here really get their jollies by seeing the changes they've suggested get implemented. Show them a coloring style change -- a general reduction in wordiness -- cleaner, more concise writing. I didn't question your originality. I myself do a journal comic -- not entirely original, but no one else has the same subject pool (my life) from which to draw comic ideas. So I get where you're coming from. What they're suggesting, though, is that you consider switching it up a tad. There isn't a huge draw anymore to the 'x number of wacky roommates' comics, because that topic is completely saturated with half-assed comics. If you have an x-factor such as fantastic art or brilliant writing, you're more likely to be noticed with ANY kind of comic, but those features are doubly needed in your chosen topic range.
Show us the changes. You don't have to reply to every joker in here. Just make a change, show us you made that change and ask for further advice.
[and on behalf of the AC, i accept your grand thanks for critique -- consider it acknolwedged]
Wow, that last reply was sort of douchey. You do realize that people pick your comic apart to help you, right?
For free, even.
And some of them are tremendously talented at what they do.
Yeah I am a douche! That's the awesomeness of a 5th grader. I'm rubber and your glue what ever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. There really is a difference between picking a part at critiquing. We never said any one wasn't talented and honestly we take the good from the bad. Are comments back have really been for the people just blasting without a valid point. So I will take what I have and leave it be. I am walking away so not to start a feud. I hope you continue to follow our comic and give feedback when we make changes. Thank you and good day.
Posts
For free, even.
And some of them are tremendously talented at what they do.
I don't think people are really reading what i've been posting here- maybe if i bold and cap the important parts the people who skip to the messages they want to read won't be repeating themselves. we are THANKFUL for the HELP that has been GIVEN and WE'VE APPLIED IT to our comic, seriously though- we have taken the comments to heart and have gained an understanding and i can't say enough (in EVERY single post) that we are very THANKFUL- again - THANKFUL and APPRECIATIVE- one more time? WE ARE THANKFUL AND APPRECIATIVE AND WE'VE ALREADY BEGUN TO MAKE CHANGES BASED ON YOUR COMMENTS- THANK YOU! FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART- THANK YOU. It's not we're casting the comments to the wind here, but you're skipping posts and reading what you want and i would expect more out of the 'High Council of Webcomc Critique' .
I agree with what you've written here- but i do feel the need to defend some aspects of what we're doing- i didn't bring up the debate of originality nor am i using art history as an easy pass to slide on originality- if you read my previous posts i'm merely stating that i believe what we're doing is original, we created it didn't we? Or doesn't that count? The question of originality seems to be up for debate in regards to what we're doing, so i'm responding to that with my honest feelings. I'm not opposed to changes or the comments- again- we've taken them seriously! We've begun to make changes! I can't stress that fact enough but it appears i have to get the point across.
I didn't specifically ask for a critique on the website, even though it comes with the territory- we know it has problems and we are going to work on them, and my thanks to those who've commented about it.
- They are on here, the primary illustrator is on vacation- i'm funneling comments via email to him. Sorry, but i'm not making the poor guy go check a forum on his personal time.
- Arguments are suited for this i believe, fine art / art makes no difference, it's still art.
- There's only 11 comics up. As mentioned previously, we're still in infancy and working out the kinks. We release one comic a week and have several illustrated and written in advance with an every increasing supply- we do this to stay ahead of the game as there are times when we just can't get a comic done because we all work full time jobs and ya'know have a life outside of the internet, it is summer after all
- Nope, i don't find it harsh- pretty accustomed to it at this point XD We take pride in our work, so why wouldn't we treat it like a raging success? Don't you put everything you have into what you do? It's pretty sad if you don't. I'm not saying it's going to be success, i never stated that here, no, not at all. And nowhere did i state that i'm begging for a wordy explanation, in fact- i've just let everyone comment as they see fit and responded accordingly to what i felt was important. There isn't much to comment on, but i posted the images on here as those were the ones i wanted to focus on for the time being.
I think i've about got what i'm going to get out of this run on the thread, until i can post some new images and get some new feedback.
Thanks again all. very much appreciated, we'll be continuing to implement the improvements you've pointed out. Thank you again for your suggestions and your time.
It is what it is- he's got open ears, but we're starting to run into repeats of what we've already heard. I can't blame him there, so unless there's anything new that hasn't yet been mentioned...
Yeah I am a douche! That's the awesomeness of a 5th grader. I'm rubber and your glue what ever you say bounces off me and sticks to you. There really is a difference between picking a part at critiquing. We never said any one wasn't talented and honestly we take the good from the bad. Are comments back have really been for the people just blasting without a valid point. So I will take what I have and leave it be. I am walking away so not to start a feud. I hope you continue to follow our comic and give feedback when we make changes. Thank you and good day.
Show us the changes. You don't have to reply to every joker in here. Just make a change, show us you made that change and ask for further advice.
[and on behalf of the AC, i accept your grand thanks for critique -- consider it acknolwedged]
edit: DAMMIT! Too late.