FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Hey guys, I need some help improving one of the PCs in my game. The other folks are all contributing and making kills and having fun, but this guy just seems to be a little lame compared to the rest. I'd rather not have him feel like he's the 'weak' member of the party, so I was hoping you guys could help me impove the guys build to be more effective. i.e. help me min/max a broken character.
First off; about the concept:
The character is an outcast Eladrin who, disgusted with the haughty decadence of high elf society, has spurned his heritage and instead seeks to engage and foster human culture, who he sees as a young and dynamic force in the world compared to Elven stagnance and decay. Using the advantages of Elven mobility, he cuts a dynamic and inspiring path through the battlefield, weaving and twisting the combat to suit him and his allies.
Secondly, about the player:
The dude is one of my good friends, and he's a great guy, but I'm going to be honest here: he has some faults when it comes to D&D. While he knows the rules, he doesn't ever seem to know how to use them to his advantage; he suffers from a lack of imagination that leads to both poor roleplaying (descriptively) and poor tactical decision making. While everyone makes stupid mistakes now and then that lead to disaster, he makes them more frequently and consistantly than anybody else; I know at least one of my other players plays more conservatively because she doesn't trust him to make sound tactical decisions on the battlefield.
The character sheet:
Shackles, level 5
Eladrin, Warlord
Commanding Presence: Inspiring Presence
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 17.
POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Commander's Strike
Warlord at-will 1: Wolf Pack Tactics
Warlord encounter 1: Hammer and Anvil
Warlord daily 1: Stand the Fallen
Warlord utility 2: Aid the Injured
Warlord encounter 3: Inspiring War Cry
Warlord daily 5: Bastion of Defense
ITEMS
Dynamic Dagger +2
Mithral Chain +1
Acrobatic Boots (heroic tier)
Bag of Holding (heroic tier)
Spiked Gauntlets
Crossbow
Other stuff:
This guys performance is well below the others. I'm not sure if it's because his build is so poor, or he's making shit decisions, or just because he seems like he's doing not much but he actually is because his play style is so... bland.
The party is leveling up to 6th level this week, so there's an opportunity to pick up a new feat, retrain, etc. and improve this mess.
The party other than the Warlord consists of an agile trickster Rogue, a twin weapon ranger and a shielding Swordmage.
His use of At-wills is negligable. He use Commander's Strike about once or twice and encounter; wolf pack tactics gets used about every other encounter.
Also: The Dynamic dagger was given to him to encourage a round of ranged combat and dagger throwing before he gets into combat. Nope. First round, draw dagger, transform to spiked chain, charge enemies. *smack head*
The Mithral was a plot item that served it purpose; I'm throwing a Rust Monster his way so he can convert it back to a light armour.
I guess I've got a few ideas about what he could do to get back into the game, but I'm just not good enough on the rules of players to optimise this thing; I'd like some other folks to look over it and make some suggestions, preferably without binning the whole thing and starting over. Ideally, I'd just like to work with the guy on his level up and bring him back into line with the rest of the party, but I think he needs more than retraining a single ability/power/feat.
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
Pathfinder is what Paizo did when WotC pulled their publishing license on Dragon Mag and they decided not to buy a 4ed licence. It builds on the OGL for 3.5, improving it's shortcoming and making sort of '3.75' D&D. It keeps more of the skills and more interesting ways to use them, and a lot more feat trees and the like to balance classes, rather than 4ed exceptions and powers based system.
It's a fairly solid system, particularly if you preferred 3.5 to 4ed D&D.
from the looks of it Fishman, he doesn't quite get how to work with the character, or he has an idea of what he wants and is trying to get there in some fashion. I wish i was better at warlords cause then i might have some advice, but you might suggest dropping the spike chain gimmick? maybe pick up eladrin solider and have him use a polearm or something?
Melding on
0
Options
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited July 2009
I suspect he doesn't quite know how to make his character stats work with the way he wants to play; his natural tendancy to create turtling tanks is at odds with the concept of an agile swashbuckling master of battle, hence his high-dex Warlord build.
Dropping the Spiked Chain was something I hadn't thought of; it was one of the first features of the character and so I hadn't really considered it. I suspect he might like to hold on to it, but I'll definitely look into it, thanks.
That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
0
Options
StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Next week mutants and masterminds:
Burning, you can choose your character (Mikko or Pavel)
Marsh, Jasper seems to be your only option
DE?AD, while you technically could play the Wheelman, play your new guy
Fabricate, well, both of your dudes are kidnapped. So if you want, play zombie JFK, or borrow one of the many characters DE?AD and I have sitting around collecting dust.
It will be a tough session, but, y'know, should be fun.
Thanks for the fun game, Quetz, never before have I had the pleasure of slicing up asps with throwing knives made out of folded up hamburger receipts.
Looking forward to rocking the tesla gun again though.
Marshmallow on
0
Options
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Trying out the character builder
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
R-66Y, level 1
Warforged, Swordmage
Build: Assault Swordmage
Swordmage Aegis: Aegis of Assault
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 11, Cha 9.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 11, Cha 9.
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Magic Scimitar +1, Leather Armor
RITUALS
Create Campsite
FORMULAS
Antivenom
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Regarding the character builder, I wish they'd included more stuff with the Psionic teaser, but can't really complain about getting anything at all this early. The idea is pretty neat, but I've always preferred telekinetic psionics to telepathic.
So I'm wondering how viable this character would be to play, as the closest I've come to playing D&D is stuff like BG and NWN.
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Baden, level 1
Shadar-kai, Rogue
Build: Cutthroat Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 12, Dex 18, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 16.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16.
ITEMS
Leather Armor, Climber's Kit, Thieves' Tools, Adventurer's Kit, Magic Short sword +1
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Hey guys, I need some help improving one of the PCs in my game. The other folks are all contributing and making kills and having fun, but this guy just seems to be a little lame compared to the rest. I'd rather not have him feel like he's the 'weak' member of the party, so I was hoping you guys could help me impove the guys build to be more effective. i.e. help me min/max a broken character.
First off; about the concept:
The character is an outcast Eladrin who, disgusted with the haughty decadence of high elf society, has spurned his heritage and instead seeks to engage and foster human culture, who he sees as a young and dynamic force in the world compared to Elven stagnance and decay. Using the advantages of Elven mobility, he cuts a dynamic and inspiring path through the battlefield, weaving and twisting the combat to suit him and his allies.
Secondly, about the player:
The dude is one of my good friends, and he's a great guy, but I'm going to be honest here: he has some faults when it comes to D&D. While he knows the rules, he doesn't ever seem to know how to use them to his advantage; he suffers from a lack of imagination that leads to both poor roleplaying (descriptively) and poor tactical decision making. While everyone makes stupid mistakes now and then that lead to disaster, he makes them more frequently and consistantly than anybody else; I know at least one of my other players plays more conservatively because she doesn't trust him to make sound tactical decisions on the battlefield.
The character sheet:
Shackles, level 5
Eladrin, Warlord
Commanding Presence: Inspiring Presence
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 17.
POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Commander's Strike
Warlord at-will 1: Wolf Pack Tactics
Warlord encounter 1: Hammer and Anvil
Warlord daily 1: Stand the Fallen
Warlord utility 2: Aid the Injured
Warlord encounter 3: Inspiring War Cry
Warlord daily 5: Bastion of Defense
ITEMS
Dynamic Dagger +2
Mithral Chain +1
Acrobatic Boots (heroic tier)
Bag of Holding (heroic tier)
Spiked Gauntlets
Crossbow
Other stuff:
This guys performance is well below the others. I'm not sure if it's because his build is so poor, or he's making shit decisions, or just because he seems like he's doing not much but he actually is because his play style is so... bland.
The party is leveling up to 6th level this week, so there's an opportunity to pick up a new feat, retrain, etc. and improve this mess.
The party other than the Warlord consists of an agile trickster Rogue, a twin weapon ranger and a shielding Swordmage.
His use of At-wills is negligable. He use Commander's Strike about once or twice and encounter; wolf pack tactics gets used about every other encounter.
Also: The Dynamic dagger was given to him to encourage a round of ranged combat and dagger throwing before he gets into combat. Nope. First round, draw dagger, transform to spiked chain, charge enemies. *smack head*
The Mithral was a plot item that served it purpose; I'm throwing a Rust Monster his way so he can convert it back to a light armour.
I guess I've got a few ideas about what he could do to get back into the game, but I'm just not good enough on the rules of players to optimise this thing; I'd like some other folks to look over it and make some suggestions, preferably without binning the whole thing and starting over. Ideally, I'd just like to work with the guy on his level up and bring him back into line with the rest of the party, but I think he needs more than retraining a single ability/power/feat.
So please, make some suggestions.
As for abilities, the Dexterity does not appear to be doing anything for him; Most of his attacks are Strength (so only +2 to-hit and bonus damage), while Charisma amplifies several Inspiration powers. That 11 in Wisdom isn't any more effective to his skills than a 10, and he'll have a hard time noticing the difference.
His Int is wasted either by being too low for the powers that use it (like Commander's Strike) or he's wasting his training on powers that don't take advantage of his inspirational build (and characterization). I won't suggest he change builds from his character concept, so different powers might be a good route, like Furious Smash.
But ultimately an extra +5-10% hit rate or 1-2 points of damage isn't going to help bad tactics or party support. Wolf Pack is a solid exploit and he should be using it with the Swordmage or Ranger to gain combat advantage every turn, especially with a reach weapon.
The first game Dark Heresy, concentrates on agents of the Inquisition; two other games in the line are planned, with the working titles of Rogue Trader - which will cover interstellar travel, traders, and Xenos - and Deathwatch - which will allow players to create Space Marines. With Games Workshop's decision to shut down Black Industries and transfer the rights for all of Black Industries' RPGs to Fantasy Flight Games the future of the line was in doubt, but Fantasy Flight have announced that they do intend to release Rogue Trader and Deathwatch to complete Black Industries' original vision for the line.
I've always been kind of curious in the 40k universe as to how Rogue Traders worked exactly, so far as travel. There are apparently a lot of them working autonomously, yet you need Navigators to really travel anywhere in a non-insane amount of time, and the three-eyed freaks don't really grow on trees.
you can apparently play as a navigator in Rogue Trader. I read it somewhere on this page.
I've never played or collected wh40k, but I waste a lot of time reading about the setting. I've read a couple of the DH books, the player's book and that one expansion book with the... Angry Armored Nun-Vixen with Big Gun on the front. I really enjoy the setting. I'm definitely going to buy the Rogue Trader book when it comes out. I read it is supposed to be out for GenCon09, which is in August.
I've always been kind of curious in the 40k universe as to how Rogue Traders worked exactly, so far as travel. There are apparently a lot of them working autonomously, yet you need Navigators to really travel anywhere in a non-insane amount of time, and the three-eyed freaks don't really grow on trees.
well, the thing with Rogue Traders is they aren't just random dudes who run freight
they are special houses with letters of marque from the High Lords of Terra themselves, and that these letters of marque have been passed down over generations through the Rogue Trader houses.
the houses themselves are retarded rich, so, it wouldn't surprise me if they were able to employ Navigators.
Pony on
0
Options
Tommy2Handswhat is this where am iRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
Oh man, these avenger dudes are some pretty hateful mother fuckers aren't they?
I read a fair bit of both in bookstores. They were stunningly awful stuff if I remember correctly, all of the worst parts of the alignment system available in a handy two book set.
I read a fair bit of both in bookstores. They were stunningly awful stuff if I remember correctly, all of the worst parts of the alignment system available in a handy two book set.
yep
they were like what people on the wizards of the coast message boards think alignment should be
I thought for a moment that a wuthering heights RPG might actually exist
thank you for that moment of existential horror
Um, there is, albeit a very simple one. It is linked in the OP.
There's a review for it on The Forge where it implies there were a few more rules within the english rules (the French version apparently had a retarded number of extra rules for stuff that aint got a business in gothic romance). Still keeping my eyes peeled for the actual PDF.
So I was thinking the premise for a PA Wuthering Heights tragedy is that John Gabriel dies and his friends and family must split up his estate when his will is discovered to have simply left 'everything' to his 'peeps'. All his friends and relatives argue with and plot against eachother over who he liked most and who has sentimental value over what stuff. Duels, murders, and professed homosexual love ensue.
Posts
First off; about the concept:
Secondly, about the player:
The character sheet:
Eladrin, Warlord
Commanding Presence: Inspiring Presence
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 17.
AC: 19 Fort: 15 Reflex: 15 Will: 17
HP: 49 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 12
TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +8, Diplomacy +10, Heal + 7, History + 10
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Bluff, Dungeoneering, Endurance -1, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth -1, Streetwise, Thievery
FEATS
Level 1: Improved Inspiring Word
Level 2: Toughness
Level 4: Weapon prof (Spiked Chain)
POWERS
Warlord at-will 1: Commander's Strike
Warlord at-will 1: Wolf Pack Tactics
Warlord encounter 1: Hammer and Anvil
Warlord daily 1: Stand the Fallen
Warlord utility 2: Aid the Injured
Warlord encounter 3: Inspiring War Cry
Warlord daily 5: Bastion of Defense
ITEMS
Dynamic Dagger +2
Mithral Chain +1
Acrobatic Boots (heroic tier)
Bag of Holding (heroic tier)
Spiked Gauntlets
Crossbow
Other stuff:
The party is leveling up to 6th level this week, so there's an opportunity to pick up a new feat, retrain, etc. and improve this mess.
The party other than the Warlord consists of an agile trickster Rogue, a twin weapon ranger and a shielding Swordmage.
His use of At-wills is negligable. He use Commander's Strike about once or twice and encounter; wolf pack tactics gets used about every other encounter.
Also: The Dynamic dagger was given to him to encourage a round of ranged combat and dagger throwing before he gets into combat. Nope. First round, draw dagger, transform to spiked chain, charge enemies. *smack head*
The Mithral was a plot item that served it purpose; I'm throwing a Rust Monster his way so he can convert it back to a light armour.
I guess I've got a few ideas about what he could do to get back into the game, but I'm just not good enough on the rules of players to optimise this thing; I'd like some other folks to look over it and make some suggestions, preferably without binning the whole thing and starting over. Ideally, I'd just like to work with the guy on his level up and bring him back into line with the rest of the party, but I think he needs more than retraining a single ability/power/feat.
So please, make some suggestions.
It's a fairly solid system, particularly if you preferred 3.5 to 4ed D&D.
I prefer 4E.
Oh and I got a hold of Spirit of the Century. This is the same system as Dresden Files will use right?
I should read it now.
Dropping the Spiked Chain was something I hadn't thought of; it was one of the first features of the character and so I hadn't really considered it. I suspect he might like to hold on to it, but I'll definitely look into it, thanks.
Burning, you can choose your character (Mikko or Pavel)
Marsh, Jasper seems to be your only option
DE?AD, while you technically could play the Wheelman, play your new guy
Fabricate, well, both of your dudes are kidnapped. So if you want, play zombie JFK, or borrow one of the many characters DE?AD and I have sitting around collecting dust.
It will be a tough session, but, y'know, should be fun.
Pavel will play next session.
Looking forward to rocking the tesla gun again though.
R-66Y, level 1
Warforged, Swordmage
Build: Assault Swordmage
Swordmage Aegis: Aegis of Assault
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 16, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 11, Cha 9.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 11, Cha 9.
AC: 18 Fort: 13 Reflex: 13 Will: 13
HP: 31 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 7
TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +8, Endurance +10, Athletics +7, Insight +5
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Dungeoneering, Heal, History +3, Intimidate +1, Nature, Perception, Religion +3, Stealth, Streetwise -1, Thievery
FEATS
Level 1: Improved Swordbond
POWERS
Swordmage at-will 1: Greenflame Blade
Swordmage at-will 1: Sword Burst
Swordmage encounter 1: Foesnare
Swordmage daily 1: Whirling Blade
ITEMS
Adventurer's Kit, Magic Scimitar +1, Leather Armor
RITUALS
Create Campsite
FORMULAS
Antivenom
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Sounds cool as fuck!
Baden, level 1
Shadar-kai, Rogue
Build: Cutthroat Rogue
Rogue Tactics: Artful Dodger
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 12, Dex 18, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 16.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 12, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 16.
AC: 16 Fort: 12 Reflex: 16 Will: 13
HP: 24 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 6
TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +11, Thievery +9, Acrobatics +11, Athletics +5, Streetwise +8, Intimidate +8
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +1, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering, Endurance +1, Heal, History +1, Insight, Nature, Perception, Religion +1
FEATS
Level 1: Life on the Edge
POWERS
Rogue at-will 1: Riposte Strike
Rogue at-will 1: Disheartening Strike
Rogue encounter 1: Positioning Strike
Rogue daily 1: Handspring Assault
ITEMS
Leather Armor, Climber's Kit, Thieves' Tools, Adventurer's Kit, Magic Short sword +1
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
As for abilities, the Dexterity does not appear to be doing anything for him; Most of his attacks are Strength (so only +2 to-hit and bonus damage), while Charisma amplifies several Inspiration powers. That 11 in Wisdom isn't any more effective to his skills than a 10, and he'll have a hard time noticing the difference.
His Int is wasted either by being too low for the powers that use it (like Commander's Strike) or he's wasting his training on powers that don't take advantage of his inspirational build (and characterization). I won't suggest he change builds from his character concept, so different powers might be a good route, like Furious Smash.
But ultimately an extra +5-10% hit rate or 1-2 points of damage isn't going to help bad tactics or party support. Wolf Pack is a solid exploit and he should be using it with the Swordmage or Ranger to gain combat advantage every turn, especially with a reach weapon.
Oh my goodness
wiki
[cite needed, lol]
aw jeah
I've never played or collected wh40k, but I waste a lot of time reading about the setting. I've read a couple of the DH books, the player's book and that one expansion book with the... Angry Armored Nun-Vixen with Big Gun on the front. I really enjoy the setting. I'm definitely going to buy the Rogue Trader book when it comes out. I read it is supposed to be out for GenCon09, which is in August.
well, the thing with Rogue Traders is they aren't just random dudes who run freight
they are special houses with letters of marque from the High Lords of Terra themselves, and that these letters of marque have been passed down over generations through the Rogue Trader houses.
the houses themselves are retarded rich, so, it wouldn't surprise me if they were able to employ Navigators.
You know, this book is starting to grow on me
goooooooooooooooooooood
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
EDIT: Most of the classes are pretty badass in action, really.
It showed how to play GURPS set in The Village.
Yes, that Village.
I'm not sure I could do it justice as a DM. At least, not without spiking my player's coke with grain alcohol.
it was so fucking good
INFORMATION
INFORMATION
i owned the former, but not the latter
book of exalted deeds was full of the most broken-ass shit, in terms of feats and stuff, my god
thank you for that moment of existential horror
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
yep
they were like what people on the wizards of the coast message boards think alignment should be
but in a book!
Um, there is, albeit a very simple one. It is linked in the OP.
or VoP + Druid
The Saint bit makes his character really hard to kill.
Immunity to almost every element, DR 10/evil, plus fast healing 5.
I mean we are at level 14, but Sainthood is just so good.
You should be extolling the virtues of Rifts instead
There's a review for it on The Forge where it implies there were a few more rules within the english rules (the French version apparently had a retarded number of extra rules for stuff that aint got a business in gothic romance). Still keeping my eyes peeled for the actual PDF.
So I was thinking the premise for a PA Wuthering Heights tragedy is that John Gabriel dies and his friends and family must split up his estate when his will is discovered to have simply left 'everything' to his 'peeps'. All his friends and relatives argue with and plot against eachother over who he liked most and who has sentimental value over what stuff. Duels, murders, and professed homosexual love ensue.