The Sons of Lee Marvin is a secret society devoted to iconic American actor Lee Marvin.[1] The entry criterion for the club is that the person must have some physical resemblance or plausibly look like a son of Marvin—as such, women are not allowed to join.[2] As founding member and film director Jim Jarmusch explains, "if you look like you could be a son of Lee Marvin, then you are instantly thought of by the Sons of Lee Marvin to be a Son of Lee Marvin".[3] Other founding members of the society reportedly include actors and musicians Tom Waits, John Lurie, and Richard Boes, all collaborators of Jarmusch.[4][5][2]
I'm generally very highly critical of any book about "growing up," because maturation is a different process for different people, and equating the gaining or losing of personal character traits with maturation is usually a smokescreen for an ideological value judgment on those character traits. Personal growth usually involves finding the right balance of acceptance and criticism, logic and emotion, spontaneity and restraint, iconoclasm and convention, ambition and repose. What represents immaturity to one person can be maturity to another. Associating any one of those traits with immaturity and it's antagonist to maturity is a cheap rhetorical device, not far removed from creating characters as two-dimensional ideological strawmen. Furthermore, personal growth is a lifelong challenge - the implication that adulthood is a country club that you enter when you're ready rather than a constant process of learning and improving offends me. If you put a gun to my head and told me to define adulthood or die, I'd probably say "An adult is somebody who takes responsibility for their own growth."
In addition, you're right by saying that the context in which you read a book can affect your interpretation of it. I was assigned Catcher in the Rye by a high school that went out of its way to remind its students that we weren't really people but pubescent hormonal homunculi at every goddamn opportunity and responded to every criticism with snide remarks about teenagers and their rebellious phases. The themes of the book that were made explicit in my literature class were about how Holden Caulfield is a rebellious teenager, and he would be so much happier if he just put his idealism aside and accepted the world as it is - at a time when I was trying to resist being herded like cattle, stopped for random drug searches, forced to carry a 50 pound backpack every day, and have my only income commandeered and held by my school. While it was true that Holden needed, for his own psychological well-being, was to temper his idealism (and it's corollary, cynicism), what I resented - and still resent, obviously, from the tone of my post - is the strong implication that idealism is a youthful fantasy. As I said above, we need a certain balance, and just because Holden Caulfield is unbalanced in one specific way doesn't mean all adolescents are similarly unbalanced.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
That's the point. There is no substance to life, to existence, to reality. Holden is perfectly fine socio-economically but he is unfulfilled and grasping for some hope of a meaning or purpose which simply isn't there. So the narrative of the story articulates, quite well, I think, an instance in which Holden attempts to deal with or puzzle out his existence.
It's depressing as hell, but I think it tackles the subject matter in the only sensible way to do so.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
they just crossed the river and found a house. enjoying the hell out of it.
I love when they're singing in the jail cell and dancing around. Also when they go back for Benigni in the swamp. The ending is also quite good. The whole thing plays out like a much more interesting Stranger Than Paradise.
He used to visit Kansas City a lot in the mid-80s, and hang out in Wesport (the hipster area). My mom used to point him out to me when he was walking down the sidewalk sometimes.
Heh, neat.
"Mommy, who is that deadpan white-haired man?"
I also got Stranger Than Paradise and Night On Earth... mostly on the strength of Dead Man.
I'll work my way through the other 3 or 4 that I don't have yet access to with netflix, of course.
That's the point. There is no substance to life, to existence, to reality. Holden is perfectly fine socio-economically but he is unfulfilled and grasping for some hope of a meaning or purpose which simply isn't there. So the narrative of the story articulates, quite well, I think, an instance in which Holden attempts to deal with or puzzle out his existence.
It's depressing as hell, but I think it tackles the subject matter in the only sensible way to do so.
It's not depressing.
It's silly.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
That's the point. There is no substance to life, to existence, to reality. Holden is perfectly fine socio-economically but he is unfulfilled and grasping for some hope of a meaning or purpose which simply isn't there. So the narrative of the story articulates, quite well, I think, an instance in which Holden attempts to deal with or puzzle out his existence.
It's depressing as hell, but I think it tackles the subject matter in the only sensible way to do so.
It's not depressing.
It's silly.
I think I would go with "uninteresting" before "silly".
I think Catcher in the Rye is a fantastic book for people who have ever felt like Holden. For anyone else it's just "this kid is fucked up / stupid" and they have no desire to see what happens.
It's very much dependent upon how one feels when reading it, I think.
Jeremy Brett was the quintessential Sherlock Holmes.
I am looking forward to the new movie, though.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
I remember liking Catcher In The Rye when I was 15, and I've never been compelled to look at it or talk about it since.
the scene that gives the book it's title is something I remember from, as well as the prostitute he doesn't sleep with, and the word fuck written on a bench.
I have felt like Holden before. I don't believe that adds any merit to the story though. Not to mention that i'm pretty critical of Salinger is a writer too.
I have felt like Holden before. I don't believe that adds any merit to the story though. Not to mention that i'm pretty critical of Salinger is a writer too.
then again Fitzgerald gives me a boner so.
Fitzgerald is probably one of the best American writers. And The Great Gatsby is fantastic if only for the "This is why you don't live your life in the pursuit of one woman" message.
I have felt like Holden before. I don't believe that adds any merit to the story though. Not to mention that i'm pretty critical of Salinger is a writer too.
then again Fitzgerald gives me a boner so.
Fitzgerald is probably one of the best American writers. And The Great Gatsby is fantastic if only for the "This is why you don't live your life in the pursuit of one woman" message.
Everyone's pursuing something.
Heck I don't even think Fitzgerald is saying don't do this but is instead telling the tale of one of the zillions who have done it just like he did.
As a serious recommendation if Gorilla is still around, I basically push "All the King's Men" onto anyone who will listen. It is my most favorite book.
Ha. My missus saw a production of No Exit last night. It was apparently 'interesting', which I decoded as meaning 'indifferently acted, and with rubbish dialogue, but with the kernel of a good idea in there'.
no but I reserved not more than 10 minutes ago. I started BlowUp two nights ago but I got so tired about 20 minutes in that I just had to go to sleep.
I'll make a note to mention it when I see it, should be soon :P
Blowup starts to get good about halfway through. Plus a couple of those early photo shoots are at least neat to look at.
I only bring up L'avventura because Strangers In Paradise kind of confused me at first. Once I put it in the context of "Oh, this thing is like a slightly more modern, less glamorous (and much drier) Antonioni movie," it made a little more sense to me and I appreciated it a bit more.
You'll definitely see where Dead Man and Down By Law came from when you see it.
As a serious recommendation if Gorilla is still around, I basically push "All the King's Men" onto anyone who will listen. It is my most favorite book.
I think everybody in No Exit would have been much happier had they just fucked each other.
that's your solution to everything, isn't it :P
No, just my entire high school required reading list.
Catcher in the Rye: Holden would have been much less uptight had he bust a nut in the prostitute. A Separate Peace: Gene and Phineas? So gay for each other. The Great Gatsby: Tom, Daisy, and Gatsby? I'm thinking threesome. The Lord of the Flies: You're telling me that a bunch of kids entering puberty stranded on a tropical island aren't "exploring" with one another? Right. Hamlet: Don't play coy, sweet Prince, we all know you really were thinking of "country matters." The Iliad: Ancient Greeks. Need I say more? The Scarlet Letter: Polyamory would have prevented all that drama. Brave New World: All John really needed was to pop a couple soma and relax with a cute chick and a feelie. The Bell Jar: I think one or two screaming orgasms a week would have improved Sylvia's outlook immensely.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I think everybody in No Exit would have been much happier had they just fucked each other.
that's your solution to everything, isn't it :P
No, just my entire high school required reading list.
Catcher in the Rye: Holden would have been much less uptight had he bust a nut in the prostitute. A Separate Peace: Gene and Phineas? So gay for each other. The Great Gatsby: Tom, Daisy, and Gatsby? I'm thinking threesome. The Lord of the Flies: You're telling me that a bunch of kids entering puberty stranded on a tropical island aren't "exploring" with one another? Right. Hamlet: Don't play coy, sweet Prince, we all know you really were thinking of "country matters." The Iliad: Ancient Greeks. Need I say more? The Scarlet Letter: Polyamory would have prevented all that drama. Brave New World: All John really needed was to pop a couple soma and relax with a cute chick and a feelie. The Bell Jar: I think one or two screaming orgasms a week would have improved Sylvia's outlook immensely.
Writers are pretty famous for having sexual problems and projecting them into their literature.
As a serious recommendation if Gorilla is still around, I basically push "All the King's Men" onto anyone who will listen. It is my most favorite book.
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I'm in my 20s and I'd gladly let that person molest me.
Wow.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
That's the point. There is no substance to life, to existence, to reality. Holden is perfectly fine socio-economically but he is unfulfilled and grasping for some hope of a meaning or purpose which simply isn't there. So the narrative of the story articulates, quite well, I think, an instance in which Holden attempts to deal with or puzzle out his existence.
It's depressing as hell, but I think it tackles the subject matter in the only sensible way to do so.
I also got Stranger Than Paradise and Night On Earth... mostly on the strength of Dead Man.
I'll work my way through the other 3 or 4 that I don't have yet access to with netflix, of course.
It's not depressing.
It's silly.
not looking that way.
I think I would go with "uninteresting" before "silly".
I think Catcher in the Rye is a fantastic book for people who have ever felt like Holden. For anyone else it's just "this kid is fucked up / stupid" and they have no desire to see what happens.
It's very much dependent upon how one feels when reading it, I think.
I am looking forward to the new movie, though.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
the scene that gives the book it's title is something I remember from, as well as the prostitute he doesn't sleep with, and the word fuck written on a bench.
and it getting John Lennon killed.
On the black screen
Camus Can Do, But Sartre is Smartre.
then again Fitzgerald gives me a boner so.
"Sherlock Holmes solved this case in a CAVE! With a BOX of CLUES!"
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
whoa old meme is old.
nice
But then again I also liked The Wall, so maybe I just have a thing for Coming Out of Your Emotional Shell stories.
On the black screen
It's weird that as much as I'm looking forward to the burn, I'm looking forward to playing Magic with him almost as much.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Fitzgerald is probably one of the best American writers. And The Great Gatsby is fantastic if only for the "This is why you don't live your life in the pursuit of one woman" message.
I miss playing Magic.
It was a fantastic medium for rules lawyering and finger pointing.
Mostly. Maybe I just like saying his name.
no but I reserved not more than 10 minutes ago. I started BlowUp two nights ago but I got so tired about 20 minutes in that I just had to go to sleep.
I'll make a note to mention it when I see it, should be soon :P
Play any game long enough, you'll start to rules lawyer, or at least encounter people who do.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Everyone's pursuing something.
Heck I don't even think Fitzgerald is saying don't do this but is instead telling the tale of one of the zillions who have done it just like he did.
Beats my "Fire solves everything" solution.
I guess.
Yes.
I mostly built combo decks or alternate win condition decks, because they afforded more opportunities to rules lawyer.
On the black screen
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
I do not know if I have a favorite book. That is something to ponder while I try to make the insomnia go away.
Blowup starts to get good about halfway through. Plus a couple of those early photo shoots are at least neat to look at.
I only bring up L'avventura because Strangers In Paradise kind of confused me at first. Once I put it in the context of "Oh, this thing is like a slightly more modern, less glamorous (and much drier) Antonioni movie," it made a little more sense to me and I appreciated it a bit more.
You'll definitely see where Dead Man and Down By Law came from when you see it.
will write a list tomorrow
No, just my entire high school required reading list.
Catcher in the Rye: Holden would have been much less uptight had he bust a nut in the prostitute.
A Separate Peace: Gene and Phineas? So gay for each other.
The Great Gatsby: Tom, Daisy, and Gatsby? I'm thinking threesome.
The Lord of the Flies: You're telling me that a bunch of kids entering puberty stranded on a tropical island aren't "exploring" with one another? Right.
Hamlet: Don't play coy, sweet Prince, we all know you really were thinking of "country matters."
The Iliad: Ancient Greeks. Need I say more?
The Scarlet Letter: Polyamory would have prevented all that drama.
Brave New World: All John really needed was to pop a couple soma and relax with a cute chick and a feelie.
The Bell Jar: I think one or two screaming orgasms a week would have improved Sylvia's outlook immensely.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
GF's husband is an official DCI judge.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
It occurred to me that the guy from Slingblade was essentially Boo Radley.
There were no pirates, or ninjas, or assault with a deadly moon.
The internet lied to me.
Writers are pretty famous for having sexual problems and projecting them into their literature.
catch 22!