You could ask your roommate if she thinks swallowing gum will give you cancer... or stay inside you for 7 years.
Yes, if you decide to go with the "ass" approach I outlined, there's a horde of Dumb Shit People Believe that we can provide, if you choose to truly plumb the depths of her idiocy.
"Having a fan blow on you when you sleep can kill you" I think was the dumbest one I ever heard.
what horribly mangled thread of logic did that one follow?
Something involving interrupting your normal breathing rhythm, and a stiff neck was a warning sign that you almost died in your sleep.
The worst part is that the person who told me this was neither drunk nor high at the time. Just stupid.
It's a very popular myth in South Korea. Like, every year, there will be a couple 'fan deaths' reported in the news, attributing it to either the fan 'blowing the air away from their mouth' or 'super-cooling the sleeper until they die of hypothermia.'
The girl was Korean.
Great, now I might be been being "culturally insensitive" or something when I called her a stupid cunt.
See the sensitive thing to do would be to reinforce the fan myth until it's widespread enough that we can threaten Gitmo inmates with a stiff breeze while they sleep. That way we can get away from the sleep deprivation and waterboarding that seems to set all you non-Americans wringing your hands.
See the sensitive thing to do would be to reinforce the fan myth until it's widespread enough that we can threaten Gitmo inmates with a stiff breeze while they sleep. That way we can get away from the sleep deprivation and waterboarding that seems to set all you non-Americans wringing your hands.
That's all fine and good, but you fuckers were piping the Barney theme song into their cells on loop.
That's crossing the line, man.
PeregrineFalcon on
Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Shit, man, that's a sign of love. I do nearly the same thing with my wife, and I adore her.
Lately I've been turning the speakers on her laptop down to the lowest possible setting and looping ABBA music just below her hearing threshold before setting it on the nightstand next to her. It's hilarous to watch her try and figure out how she got the song "Fernando" stuck in her head; it's even more hilarious to watch her try and figure out how and when she learned the rest of the words apart from the chorus,
If it kills birds thennnnnn it may not be good for you.
When applied to statistically significant number of birds.
But yeah, leaving pans while doing a cleaning cycle was really bad news. I'd worry about myself and the oven after that.
This being so long ago and the oven being replaced since, I'm not too worried as (as far as I know, knock on wood) I don't have cancer.
It just seems like there is a lot of studies and crap flying around about whether teflon is bad or good or what. I know for a fact it kills birds if it's heated and fuming. Does that mean I don't use teflon in day to day life/cooking? No, I still use it, I just don't heat it to smoking (who would?).
You could ask your roommate if she thinks swallowing gum will give you cancer... or stay inside you for 7 years.
I heard if you swallow too much gum
you become gum.
Not cool man, you almost made me lose it at work.
And as for the oven cleaning, I wouldn't be surprised if the birds croaked even if the oven was empty. My oven at home is new enough that the couple times we've ran it, we've had the "new oven smell" stink up the downstairs because the coating is doing its job. If someone told me they were cleaning their floors with a wet swiffer and their canary died, I don't think I would be surprised.
That's true, I don't really have a control for this experiment (an oven cleaning sans teflon). For the record though, this was a cockatiel and two parakeets that died.
That's true, I don't really have a control for this experiment (an oven cleaning sans teflon). For the record though, this was a cockatiel and two parakeets that died.
You didn't immediately think it was the food or water?
That's true, I don't really have a control for this experiment (an oven cleaning sans teflon). For the record though, this was a cockatiel and two parakeets that died.
You didn't immediately think it was the food or water?
Or perhaps that the vengeful bird god wanted your birds' parents to let his enslaved chickens go?
The only thing that was different than any other night was the oven cleaning. Then we called the vet to ask and they said it was probably the teflon. Mind this was years ago, so I don't remember exactly what the vet said about it except that was the likely cause.
The only thing that was different than any other night was the oven cleaning. Then we called the vet to ask and they said it was probably the teflon. Mind this was years ago, so I don't remember exactly what the vet said about it except that was the likely cause.
If you heat up empty teflon pans to 500+ degrees, they will, in fact, release toxic gases; this is not an urban myth. Birds are fantastically susceptible to poison gas.
Of course, if you move a barbecue indoors and use it in a sealed house, the birds would die, too; that doesn't mean you need to throw away your barbecue, though. It just means you use it as directed, rather than doing stupid shit with it.
This is a myth that sprung up when where were several reports of birds dying seemingly without reason when in the proximity of teflon cookware when it was placed on a burner. Since many fumes that are harmful to humans are are also harmful to birds (ie bringing canaries into coal mines etc) this freaked people out. The myth has been thoroughly debunked, however.
Yeah except that you're completely wrong and you're not citing any sources to support these claims.
Birds DO die in the presence of heated PTFE. This is common knowledge amongst the parrot people, and a lady I work with had friends that yes she knew personally and not on the Internets have their birds die in this fashion. It is not a myth that using teflon pans in a house with birds present can kill them. Having food in the pan won't prevent this from happening either.
That does not mean that it is carcinogenic, or that it is a danger to humans, but those are not the claims you are laying out here. You are claiming that the fact that it kills birds is an unproven myth and that is wrong.
Pheezer on
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I want to be clear though, in saying that this doesn't imply any kind of danger necessarily to humans, but parrots particularly have incredibly sensitive respiratory symptoms and it does NOT require any kind of massive misuse of a teflon pan to kill them. Perfectly "normal" use is enough.
Pheezer on
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Teflon is actually just a trademark for PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene). All non-stick surfaces might not bear the name Teflon(tm) but it's basically the same stuff.
Anyways, that stuff's so heavily fluorinated that it won't react with anything. This is why it won't react with your bacon and melt it to the surface. You could probably eat PTFE by the spoonful and not know you did it because it will just go straight through your system.
The great stability might be a long-term environmental risk however since these sort of chemicals tend to build up in the ground water, as they won't break down. As an interesting comparison see Sucralose which we drink by the gallon without caring. (and for those of you that are chemically inclined, compare the Sucralose structure to DDT. I'll take Aspartame over that shit anyday)
Oh, I might have derailed there. But...
TL;DR It wont react with your food and therefore won't react with you
[EDIT] Or, you know. What the cat-dude above me said
Sucralose
DDT
Sucralose is a chlorinated disaccharide
DDT is two benzene rings with a trichloromethyl group
They are so not alike in any way. Bad advice.
Also, teflon is really inert, its the acids used to make it that are harmful.
...which is why I stressed that there was no reason to believe that teflon was a danger to people based on its threat to parrots.
But you can't go and say it's a myth that it'll kill birds because there's always the chance that someone will repeat that advice to a bird owner who doesn't know any better and then their pet's dead. And that's not a trivial thing, given that some parrots cost in the $10k to $20k range, and any animal that says hello, good night and I love you in your own language and lives to be 65 is going to be the sort of creature you develop a certain attachment towards, y'know?
Pheezer on
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
...which is why I stressed that there was no reason to believe that teflon was a danger to people based on its threat to parrots.
But you can't go and say it's a myth that it'll kill birds because there's always the chance that someone will repeat that advice to a bird owner who doesn't know any better and then their pet's dead. And that's not a trivial thing, given that some parrots cost in the $10k to $20k range, and any animal that says hello, good night and I love you in your own language and lives to be 65 is going to be the sort of creature you develop a certain attachment towards, y'know?
I see you haven't been around many parrots, pheezer.
I... I don't know if I've seen a bird more than three grand.
You haven't seen a Hyacinth Macaw. Though one page I saw in a quick googling claimed that the Goliath Palm is more expensive in many regions. Price on anything depends on where you live, though.
Pheezer on
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
If you want to own a parrot, you must get rid of all teflon cookware in your house.
Don't say wrong shit like this. It doesn't help. You don't have to get rid of your teflon, just don't be a dumbass and forget about it on the stove on high-heat for an hour or so.
ps Than I fuckin' couldn't stand living with a parrot but I know folk.
I'm house-sitting for my aunt and uncle right now, and they have an amazonian macaw and I was specifically warned about not over heating any of the cookware.
My aunt says she's as smart as a three year old, and from the cognitive acts I've seen her perform, I believe it. I don't like birds at all, but she's crazy about me. Every time I'm in her vicinity she starts fluffing up in mating displays and tries to vomit up welcome gifts for me.D:
You could ask your roommate if she thinks swallowing gum will give you cancer... or stay inside you for 7 years.
Yes, if you decide to go with the "ass" approach I outlined, there's a horde of Dumb Shit People Believe that we can provide, if you choose to truly plumb the depths of her idiocy.
"Having a fan blow on you when you sleep can kill you" I think was the dumbest one I ever heard.
what horribly mangled thread of logic did that one follow?
Something involving interrupting your normal breathing rhythm, and a stiff neck was a warning sign that you almost died in your sleep.
The worst part is that the person who told me this was neither drunk nor high at the time. Just stupid.
It's a very popular myth in South Korea. Like, every year, there will be a couple 'fan deaths' reported in the news, attributing it to either the fan 'blowing the air away from their mouth' or 'super-cooling the sleeper until they die of hypothermia.'
The girl was Korean.
Great, now I might be been being "culturally insensitive" or something when I called her a stupid cunt.
Sucralose is a chlorinated disaccharide
DDT is two benzene rings with a trichloromethyl group
They are so not alike in any way. Bad advice.
Also, teflon is really inert, its the acids used to make it that are harmful.
My point was to show that heavily halogenated stuff are stable, therefore they will pass through you, but maybe into something else. As were the case with DDT and it built up enough to knock out, for example, lots of large birds of pray. Inert stuff isn't dangerous to you NOW but might be in the long run. And no one considered the stability of Sucralose, until some year ago when it finally reached high enough levels to be detectable in the ground water. I think the EEA (European Environment Agency) is looking into it right now but it was a while ago since I last heard anything of it.
This is my pan and my FUCKING AWESOME SPATULA (that I got as a present). The F.A.S. fucks up puny teflon coated pans.
So far I haven't gotten cancer off the 4 years I've been using that pan. I mean, I could use my cast iron or aluminum pans but I reserve that for actual good food like beef and such and not pasta.
You'll be fine. I mean, you're either going to be eating iron flakes or teflon flakes. Teflon damage is just more visible.
It's hard to see in the pic, but the F.A.S. is actually pretty thick and does not flex at all. You could probably kill somebody with that sucker if you thew it at them. Plus it's one solid piece. I recommend it to anybody.
Teflon is pretty much inactive inside the body, there's a possibility of a chip getting wedged somewhere but it's not chemically reactive and shouldn't produce free radicals thus it shouldn't be a carcinogen. Regardless I'd be more concerned about a cigarette or two. For the most part it should enter and leave your body no harm done.
Basically for major problems to occur with it, the fluorine which is bonded to carbon (causing the nonstick surface) has to be ripped off. Flourine has one of the strongest (if not the strongest) bonding strengths of any element thus you're almost 100% unlikely to rip the chemical apart in your body which is the only way it might produce free radicals.
The pyrolysis of pure teflon (the breakdown of the chemical caused by heat) starts to occur at about 200 Celsius which does indeed produce dangerous fluorine gas which can be deadly to small animals (200 is when it starts to break down 250 is when it's actually poisonous to small animals), but 200 Celsius is a temperature you shouldn't need to cook anything at fats scorch and smoke at this point, water boils at 100, meat cooks at 60-70 celsius, eggs can cook at 50 Celsius. Basically don't put your teflon pans on high and you're probably safe. Most modern teflon pans though come with chemical bonding agents and fillers which are designed to increase the temperature that teflon breaks down and increase how resistant it is to scratching and chipping, it's even possible to find modern metal resistant teflon pans.
Regardless you don't have much to worry about, the sun tends to eclipse most common carcinogens anyways. Really anymore you shouldn't be concerned by if it is a carcinogen so much as how it compares to other carcinogens.
Also keep in mind free radicals are rendered inert by the antioxidants in fresh/frozen fruits and vegetables. Most health drinks which have a large amount of antioxidants won't work either (assuming they're only using a couple of ingredients) because different antioxidants are used in different places so a wide variety of fruits and vegetabls is ideal, not to mention a lot of antioxidants fall apart very quickly (within days) after being ground up/canned/preserved so fresh and frozen are still the best.
elfdude on
Every man is wise when attacked by a mad dog; fewer when pursued by a mad woman; only the wisest survive when attacked by a mad notion.
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ArminasStudent of LifeSF, CARegistered Userregular
Second page in the PDF has a pink box in their second column. It states that the EPA has no information regarding a health risk in teflon with daily use of household items. It just means that they don't have any evidence that it will kill you tomorrow. What this means for you is whatever you want it to mean. It could either be truly harmless or it could lead to a bump in cancer rates decades down the road. No one really knows. But for now, you're probably safe to assume that teflon won't cause your death in the next month or so. While there are a number of valid points about PTFE breaking down at higher temperatures, no conclusive research has been made publicly available. If you're worried, it wouldn't kill you to switch to copper or cast iron cookware. Plus, a cast iron skillet is pretty awesome.
Posts
See the sensitive thing to do would be to reinforce the fan myth until it's widespread enough that we can threaten Gitmo inmates with a stiff breeze while they sleep. That way we can get away from the sleep deprivation and waterboarding that seems to set all you non-Americans wringing your hands.
That's all fine and good, but you fuckers were piping the Barney theme song into their cells on loop.
That's crossing the line, man.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
I'd say I'm sorry, but to be honest with you, if I had to do the same again, I would, my friend....
This being so long ago and the oven being replaced since, I'm not too worried as (as far as I know, knock on wood) I don't have cancer.
It just seems like there is a lot of studies and crap flying around about whether teflon is bad or good or what. I know for a fact it kills birds if it's heated and fuming. Does that mean I don't use teflon in day to day life/cooking? No, I still use it, I just don't heat it to smoking (who would?).
Not cool man, you almost made me lose it at work.
And as for the oven cleaning, I wouldn't be surprised if the birds croaked even if the oven was empty. My oven at home is new enough that the couple times we've ran it, we've had the "new oven smell" stink up the downstairs because the coating is doing its job. If someone told me they were cleaning their floors with a wet swiffer and their canary died, I don't think I would be surprised.
You didn't immediately think it was the food or water?
Or perhaps that the vengeful bird god wanted your birds' parents to let his enslaved chickens go?
Of course, if you move a barbecue indoors and use it in a sealed house, the birds would die, too; that doesn't mean you need to throw away your barbecue, though. It just means you use it as directed, rather than doing stupid shit with it.
Yeah except that you're completely wrong and you're not citing any sources to support these claims.
Birds DO die in the presence of heated PTFE. This is common knowledge amongst the parrot people, and a lady I work with had friends that yes she knew personally and not on the Internets have their birds die in this fashion. It is not a myth that using teflon pans in a house with birds present can kill them. Having food in the pan won't prevent this from happening either.
That does not mean that it is carcinogenic, or that it is a danger to humans, but those are not the claims you are laying out here. You are claiming that the fact that it kills birds is an unproven myth and that is wrong.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
If you want to own a parrot, you must get rid of all teflon cookware in your house.
Sucralose
DDT
Sucralose is a chlorinated disaccharide
DDT is two benzene rings with a trichloromethyl group
They are so not alike in any way. Bad advice.
Also, teflon is really inert, its the acids used to make it that are harmful.
But you can't go and say it's a myth that it'll kill birds because there's always the chance that someone will repeat that advice to a bird owner who doesn't know any better and then their pet's dead. And that's not a trivial thing, given that some parrots cost in the $10k to $20k range, and any animal that says hello, good night and I love you in your own language and lives to be 65 is going to be the sort of creature you develop a certain attachment towards, y'know?
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
You haven't seen a Hyacinth Macaw. Though one page I saw in a quick googling claimed that the Goliath Palm is more expensive in many regions. Price on anything depends on where you live, though.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
My aunt says she's as smart as a three year old, and from the cognitive acts I've seen her perform, I believe it. I don't like birds at all, but she's crazy about me. Every time I'm in her vicinity she starts fluffing up in mating displays and tries to vomit up welcome gifts for me.D:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death
I find it hilarious.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
My point was to show that heavily halogenated stuff are stable, therefore they will pass through you, but maybe into something else. As were the case with DDT and it built up enough to knock out, for example, lots of large birds of pray. Inert stuff isn't dangerous to you NOW but might be in the long run. And no one considered the stability of Sucralose, until some year ago when it finally reached high enough levels to be detectable in the ground water. I think the EEA (European Environment Agency) is looking into it right now but it was a while ago since I last heard anything of it.
So far I haven't gotten cancer off the 4 years I've been using that pan. I mean, I could use my cast iron or aluminum pans but I reserve that for actual good food like beef and such and not pasta.
You'll be fine. I mean, you're either going to be eating iron flakes or teflon flakes. Teflon damage is just more visible.
Basically for major problems to occur with it, the fluorine which is bonded to carbon (causing the nonstick surface) has to be ripped off. Flourine has one of the strongest (if not the strongest) bonding strengths of any element thus you're almost 100% unlikely to rip the chemical apart in your body which is the only way it might produce free radicals.
The pyrolysis of pure teflon (the breakdown of the chemical caused by heat) starts to occur at about 200 Celsius which does indeed produce dangerous fluorine gas which can be deadly to small animals (200 is when it starts to break down 250 is when it's actually poisonous to small animals), but 200 Celsius is a temperature you shouldn't need to cook anything at fats scorch and smoke at this point, water boils at 100, meat cooks at 60-70 celsius, eggs can cook at 50 Celsius. Basically don't put your teflon pans on high and you're probably safe. Most modern teflon pans though come with chemical bonding agents and fillers which are designed to increase the temperature that teflon breaks down and increase how resistant it is to scratching and chipping, it's even possible to find modern metal resistant teflon pans.
Regardless you don't have much to worry about, the sun tends to eclipse most common carcinogens anyways. Really anymore you shouldn't be concerned by if it is a carcinogen so much as how it compares to other carcinogens.
Also keep in mind free radicals are rendered inert by the antioxidants in fresh/frozen fruits and vegetables. Most health drinks which have a large amount of antioxidants won't work either (assuming they're only using a couple of ingredients) because different antioxidants are used in different places so a wide variety of fruits and vegetabls is ideal, not to mention a lot of antioxidants fall apart very quickly (within days) after being ground up/canned/preserved so fresh and frozen are still the best.
Second page in the PDF has a pink box in their second column. It states that the EPA has no information regarding a health risk in teflon with daily use of household items. It just means that they don't have any evidence that it will kill you tomorrow. What this means for you is whatever you want it to mean. It could either be truly harmless or it could lead to a bump in cancer rates decades down the road. No one really knows. But for now, you're probably safe to assume that teflon won't cause your death in the next month or so. While there are a number of valid points about PTFE breaking down at higher temperatures, no conclusive research has been made publicly available. If you're worried, it wouldn't kill you to switch to copper or cast iron cookware. Plus, a cast iron skillet is pretty awesome.