The right arm just under the wrist, where it vanishes out of the canvas is really flat compared to the hand. As for the shirt I think giving it some of that epic line weight, like we see on the face, would make it seem less like part of the background, maybe around the collar and the shoulder seams.
I reckon you could make a living off painting pandas like that, theres this guy in colombia that jus tpaints fat people and hes HEAPS well off. Botero...
Anyways, epic panda!! Can you make one with a heart shaped fur line?
Something about these last ink-wash boxer ones is really eye-catching. My favorite is the one of the boxer's back in mid-swing--you did an excellent job getting value with the wash and minimal line work.
I'm not sure why, and I can't really give you any suggestions on fixing it because I just don't know--but your life drawings kind of lack um... life? They seem stiff, I suppose. The one you did for Cake's thread is a marvelous exception, but your others lack the vibrant quality of that one piece. Your lines feel much more expressive and confident in this one than in the others. I'm not saying they're bad at all, it just seems like you stiffen up a lot when there's a model in front of you (no pun intended).
As far as your inkings are concerned KDW...I have something very unpleasant to say but I think you need to hear it. While they are interesting and even cool at times...this mostly comes from the ink and washes itself, and not so much your execution of the drawing. The second to last one is probably my favorite.
As far as your figure drawings go, I would like to encourage you not to use the whirly whirl swirl madness that you have put into the two most recent. There is nothing particularly wrong with trying different styles of drawing, but I am concerned you will find something you like because it is easy, and not because its just your favorite way of working. I feel the charcoal pencils that Watts uses (and you use something similar at LAAFA) are a fine example of the opposite of this. They are frustrating as hell, but they can be very fast and encourage a complete understanding of what you are doing.
Looks pretty good tonally, but a few things in each one keep them from looking believeably realistic.
In the first one underneath the nose just looks odd. The left side of his face got all the attention, but the right side looks pretty undeveloped. (flat and no detail)
The second one I can't put my finger on what is weird, but there's def something. The right side of her face is reading really flat, and as a result makes her whole head look large and fat. Also it seems like maybe the elements on the face itself are up too high. (no forehead)
Now that I think about it, the problem is the eyes. When I put my finger over them the picture becomes much better. I think they're too close together or somethin.
Yes KDW I think this is a better medium for learning.
The eyes are really small. I made them larger, defined her check and pulled the cheek in a little bit. I also softened the edges of her lips a bit and redefined her nose a little.
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
KDW, how much benefit do you feel you are getting out of your art schooling?
I'm totally self-taught (so far hurhurhurhur), and I'm wondering if it's worth going to an actual school of representational art to push myself to the standard I know I need to get to relatively soon.
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
Really the only reason to ever go to a university is if you want a degree and if you think you might pussy out and you can bail into another major (buisness, political science.. whatever). No need to pay 40,000 dollars a year to study animation . Shit you can even sign up for just those exact classes at some schools and pay much less than a full time student. You just dont get a peice of paper with a shiny gold star on it to put on the fridge.
I'm actually in my final year of a biochemistry degree, so I have that one covered! You certainly have cemented my bias towards the atelier style of teaching, rather than the more conventional art school.
What exactly is sight size, by the way?
If I was a begginer and wanted to see immiedate results from taking a class at an atelier id propably take analyitical figure drawing courses and an anatomy course.
That's been sort of my intuition, so that's the direction I've taken what passes for my own studies.
Ill just warn you that dont got to any exteremes with drawing methods or dedicate yourself to any particular one to early as you run the risk of not seeing its flaws and how they affect you. Its great when you have teachers that completely contradict each other, because then you go home and analyze things and really figure out what you want to do.
This is not an uncommon thought that I have heard from people who come down to Watts who are also taking classes at LAAFA or that school in Arizona...or some other place. It's frustrating to me because those guys are almost always crap (not that you are KDW) but start spewing this to all of the Watts students. I think LAAFA almost uses this as a marketing tool because Watts does the exact opposite.
With the exception of Jeff, all of the instructors at Watts Atelier were trained from within the school. The way they approach drawings is similar because of it, and so is the general look of the work coming out of the school. At least it appears that way to the outsider. I can easily tell everyone's work apart with the exception of my roommate Ben Young, because he has an incredible versatility so you don't know what he is going to do with each drawing. This consistency is one of the schools greatest strengths. It allows an extremely rapid growth in the foundation of drawing because you are getting a clear message from all angles.
I definitely think this is a spectacular way of learning because your mind is not getting clogged with a lot of different concepts at once. No matter which way you learn to draw from life you will eventually learn that it has nothing to do with drawing and everything to do with seeing. Which is why I think that focusing on one way of drawing for awhile is a good thing. Thinking about drawing too much and not seeing can be harmful. That said now that I am a lot more advanced I do look at a lot of different artists for inspiration, and consider taking classes elsewhere.
Honestly I don't see much purpose for sight size other than just sheer curiosity. Certainly not for someone looking to become an illustrator at least.
the right arm especially feels stiff, i think its the wrist, it doesn't look so much like hes got his hand on his waist as much as it looks like hes kungfu gripping it
Not much to add. Essentially what it comes down to is to just work your ass off.. No teacher or school is going to do the work for you. All you can hope to get is some good guidance from some knowledgeable people that will hopefully steer you in the right direction. My whole thing has always been to study from a variety of people and get from them what I wanted(which is the intention of studying with them) see what they do, how they do it.. Go figure it out for myself and keep what I like and disregard what I don't.. I've spent a lot of time just trying a bunch of shit in order to figure out what I like, and how I like working.. I'm getting closer to figure that stuff out.. but I'll always keep on taking more in for the hell of it.. whether thats good or bad.. who knows? I just like having the knowledge and freedom of choice to work how I please.
With the exception of Jeff, all of the instructors at Watts Atelier were trained from within the school. The way they approach drawings is similar because of it, and so is the general look of the work coming out of the school. At least it appears that way to the outsider. I can easily tell everyone's work apart with the exception of my roommate Ben Young, because he has an incredible versatility so you don't know what he is going to do with each drawing. This consistency is one of the schools greatest strengths. It allows an extremely rapid growth in the foundation of drawing because you are getting a clear message from all angles.
I definitely think this is a spectacular way of learning because your mind is not getting clogged with a lot of different concepts at once. No matter which way you learn to draw from life you will eventually learn that it has nothing to do with drawing and everything to do with seeing. Which is why I think that focusing on one way of drawing for awhile is a good thing. Thinking about drawing too much and not seeing can be harmful. That said now that I am a lot more advanced I do look at a lot of different artists for inspiration, and consider taking classes elsewhere.
Take this into consideration, not as bashing, but just from an outside perspective... While it might be good to have all the instructors coming from within the school... its also its greatest weakness. While there is 'some' difference in the overall looks of the instructors.. its not so much so its obvious.. If I recall correctly, the only two people I remember who had very different things going on were Ron and Mark.. That said, yes.. because every teacher is on the same page it makes moving from class to class much easier on newer students. What I wonder though is.. How do the teachers grow? What outside influences are being brought in? How are they taking in new things and ideas? This is why its essential to learn from multiple people.. and if the other teachers aren't taking workshops or classes with other people.. they're not getting anything new and probably aren't growing as much as they could be..
And I think you should take some classes elsewhere at some point man.. You've already got a really solid foundation.. I think learning from a few good outside sources will do wonders for you.. Not because another teacher is going to be vastly better.. just the fact that they might get you to think about something differently or maybe show you something you haven't really been exposed to or known about.. thats the real value of it all. Its pretty much what I've been doing for a while. I haven't taken 'classes' in quite a while. Just workshops here and there when I can and I've felt thats been much more beneficial. That and just working from life as much as possible.
Im going to have to team up with shiz on urging cake to branch out a bit with the education as hes got a solid foundation. I dont know why Im addressing this to an imaginary crowd but Ill just proceed as such.
I used to think painting still lifes were boring and just for practice. but after having been exposed and at first heavily resistent to david leffels student he has won me over with his philiosphy (which I wont go into unless someone asks) to the point where Im excited about painting them and considering trying to push them as well as my commercial work.
Well allow me to be that person that asks... What is your teachers philosophy? I'm always interested to hear about other artists motivation behind their ideas and ideals.. Whats their name? Lots of people have studied with leffel.. only mcgraw and kruetzz being the most notable.
With the exception of Jeff, all of the instructors at Watts Atelier were trained from within the school. The way they approach drawings is similar because of it, and so is the general look of the work coming out of the school. At least it appears that way to the outsider. I can easily tell everyone's work apart with the exception of my roommate Ben Young, because he has an incredible versatility so you don't know what he is going to do with each drawing. This consistency is one of the schools greatest strengths. It allows an extremely rapid growth in the foundation of drawing because you are getting a clear message from all angles.
I definitely think this is a spectacular way of learning because your mind is not getting clogged with a lot of different concepts at once. No matter which way you learn to draw from life you will eventually learn that it has nothing to do with drawing and everything to do with seeing. Which is why I think that focusing on one way of drawing for awhile is a good thing. Thinking about drawing too much and not seeing can be harmful. That said now that I am a lot more advanced I do look at a lot of different artists for inspiration, and consider taking classes elsewhere.
Take this into consideration, not as bashing, but just from an outside perspective... While it might be good to have all the instructors coming from within the school... its also its greatest weakness. While there is 'some' difference in the overall looks of the instructors.. its not so much so its obvious.. If I recall correctly, the only two people I remember who had very different things going on were Ron and Mark.. That said, yes.. because every teacher is on the same page it makes moving from class to class much easier on newer students. What I wonder though is.. How do the teachers grow? What outside influences are being brought in? How are they taking in new things and ideas? This is why its essential to learn from multiple people.. and if the other teachers aren't taking workshops or classes with other people.. they're not getting anything new and probably aren't growing as much as they could be..
And I think you should take some classes elsewhere at some point man.. You've already got a really solid foundation.. I think learning from a few good outside sources will do wonders for you.. Not because another teacher is going to be vastly better.. just the fact that they might get you to think about something differently or maybe show you something you haven't really been exposed to or known about.. thats the real value of it all. Its pretty much what I've been doing for a while. I haven't taken 'classes' in quite a while. Just workshops here and there when I can and I've felt thats been much more beneficial. That and just working from life as much as possible.
I feel confident saying we have had this discussion before and it doesn't need repeating honestly.
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Anyways, epic panda!! Can you make one with a heart shaped fur line?
They aren't the strongest things i've seen, but they have a simplicity to them that still traps all the major and minor details in.
Given the fact that I hate doing still life paintings i'm even more impressed.
I'm not sure why, and I can't really give you any suggestions on fixing it because I just don't know--but your life drawings kind of lack um... life? They seem stiff, I suppose. The one you did for Cake's thread is a marvelous exception, but your others lack the vibrant quality of that one piece. Your lines feel much more expressive and confident in this one than in the others. I'm not saying they're bad at all, it just seems like you stiffen up a lot when there's a model in front of you (no pun intended).
PSN: MaximasXXZ XBOX Live: SneakyMcSnipe
As far as your figure drawings go, I would like to encourage you not to use the whirly whirl swirl madness that you have put into the two most recent. There is nothing particularly wrong with trying different styles of drawing, but I am concerned you will find something you like because it is easy, and not because its just your favorite way of working. I feel the charcoal pencils that Watts uses (and you use something similar at LAAFA) are a fine example of the opposite of this. They are frustrating as hell, but they can be very fast and encourage a complete understanding of what you are doing.
In the first one underneath the nose just looks odd. The left side of his face got all the attention, but the right side looks pretty undeveloped. (flat and no detail)
The second one I can't put my finger on what is weird, but there's def something. The right side of her face is reading really flat, and as a result makes her whole head look large and fat. Also it seems like maybe the elements on the face itself are up too high. (no forehead)
Now that I think about it, the problem is the eyes. When I put my finger over them the picture becomes much better. I think they're too close together or somethin.
INSTAGRAM
The eyes are really small. I made them larger, defined her check and pulled the cheek in a little bit. I also softened the edges of her lips a bit and redefined her nose a little.
INSTAGRAM
INSTAGRAM
I'm totally self-taught (so far hurhurhurhur), and I'm wondering if it's worth going to an actual school of representational art to push myself to the standard I know I need to get to relatively soon.
I'm actually in my final year of a biochemistry degree, so I have that one covered! You certainly have cemented my bias towards the atelier style of teaching, rather than the more conventional art school.
What exactly is sight size, by the way?
That's been sort of my intuition, so that's the direction I've taken what passes for my own studies.
This is not an uncommon thought that I have heard from people who come down to Watts who are also taking classes at LAAFA or that school in Arizona...or some other place. It's frustrating to me because those guys are almost always crap (not that you are KDW) but start spewing this to all of the Watts students. I think LAAFA almost uses this as a marketing tool because Watts does the exact opposite.
With the exception of Jeff, all of the instructors at Watts Atelier were trained from within the school. The way they approach drawings is similar because of it, and so is the general look of the work coming out of the school. At least it appears that way to the outsider. I can easily tell everyone's work apart with the exception of my roommate Ben Young, because he has an incredible versatility so you don't know what he is going to do with each drawing. This consistency is one of the schools greatest strengths. It allows an extremely rapid growth in the foundation of drawing because you are getting a clear message from all angles.
I definitely think this is a spectacular way of learning because your mind is not getting clogged with a lot of different concepts at once. No matter which way you learn to draw from life you will eventually learn that it has nothing to do with drawing and everything to do with seeing. Which is why I think that focusing on one way of drawing for awhile is a good thing. Thinking about drawing too much and not seeing can be harmful. That said now that I am a lot more advanced I do look at a lot of different artists for inspiration, and consider taking classes elsewhere.
Honestly I don't see much purpose for sight size other than just sheer curiosity. Certainly not for someone looking to become an illustrator at least.
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Not much to add. Essentially what it comes down to is to just work your ass off.. No teacher or school is going to do the work for you. All you can hope to get is some good guidance from some knowledgeable people that will hopefully steer you in the right direction. My whole thing has always been to study from a variety of people and get from them what I wanted(which is the intention of studying with them) see what they do, how they do it.. Go figure it out for myself and keep what I like and disregard what I don't.. I've spent a lot of time just trying a bunch of shit in order to figure out what I like, and how I like working.. I'm getting closer to figure that stuff out.. but I'll always keep on taking more in for the hell of it.. whether thats good or bad.. who knows? I just like having the knowledge and freedom of choice to work how I please.
Take this into consideration, not as bashing, but just from an outside perspective... While it might be good to have all the instructors coming from within the school... its also its greatest weakness. While there is 'some' difference in the overall looks of the instructors.. its not so much so its obvious.. If I recall correctly, the only two people I remember who had very different things going on were Ron and Mark.. That said, yes.. because every teacher is on the same page it makes moving from class to class much easier on newer students. What I wonder though is.. How do the teachers grow? What outside influences are being brought in? How are they taking in new things and ideas? This is why its essential to learn from multiple people.. and if the other teachers aren't taking workshops or classes with other people.. they're not getting anything new and probably aren't growing as much as they could be..
And I think you should take some classes elsewhere at some point man.. You've already got a really solid foundation.. I think learning from a few good outside sources will do wonders for you.. Not because another teacher is going to be vastly better.. just the fact that they might get you to think about something differently or maybe show you something you haven't really been exposed to or known about.. thats the real value of it all. Its pretty much what I've been doing for a while. I haven't taken 'classes' in quite a while. Just workshops here and there when I can and I've felt thats been much more beneficial. That and just working from life as much as possible.
Well allow me to be that person that asks... What is your teachers philosophy? I'm always interested to hear about other artists motivation behind their ideas and ideals.. Whats their name? Lots of people have studied with leffel.. only mcgraw and kruetzz being the most notable.
I feel confident saying we have had this discussion before and it doesn't need repeating honestly.
The face on this one still feels really long. Not as bad as the previous one though.