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Brand New Totally-On-Topic-Or-I-Will-Cut-You Health Care Thread

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Posts

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    I see your point in the difference but what about another necessity like food for example? Even with food stamps and charities people still go hungry in America. Why isn't there a push for a single payer supermarket? Everyone should pay the same for a head of cabbage, right?

    Food is not a good that requires insurance. Everyone knows that they will need a more or less constant supply of food. In contrast to medical care where everyone knows that they have no clue when a massive bankrupting cost will fall on them out of the heavens. This is only one of the massive number of differences between food and medical care which is fundamental to their nature, the others of which were laid out in the post you were quoting.

    The short answer is that the majority of starvation deaths in the United States, if any significant number exist[it does not make any report that i can find, which puts its total rate at a necessary number under 1.2% of deaths] do not come from a lack of access to foo, but from other extenuating circumstances such as negligence and malice, things that would not go away in a single payer food system.

    If a single payer food system could save any lives in the United States i would be surprised, and the necessary infrastructure required to make such a system work would be less efficient than the system that we have in place today.
    Australia Post delivers to pretty much everywhere in Australia, though. Some anecdotes from that wiki page:
    The longest air service delivers to remote communities in the outback covering 1,790 km (1,112 mi) over two days.

    The most isolated postbox is located on a dive platform on the Great Barrier Reef.

    The most isolated Post Office is located 217 km (135 mi) from Onslow in Western Australia, 32 km (20 mi) from the nearest customer.

    I wouldn't say there's a huge difference between the US and Australia in this regard.

    The difference is not in the amount of space covered, its in the volume of material that gets sent there. Australia does relatively less in its large amount of space than the U.S. does, because the United States is much less dense than Australia.

    Goumindong on
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  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    ...and as you can no doubt imagine, I have some problems with section 105 and section 106d. Blecchchhhh.

    The Cat on
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  • Premier kakosPremier kakos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    The Cat wrote: »
    ...and as you can no doubt imagine, I have some problems with section 105 and section 106d. Blecchchhhh.

    Only because you like killing poor, innocent babies.

    Premier kakos on
  • taerictaeric Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2009
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Food is not a good that requires insurance. Everyone knows that they will need a more or less constant supply of food. In contrast to medical care where everyone knows that they have no clue when a massive bankrupting cost will fall on them out of the heavens. This is only one of the massive number of differences between food and medical care which is fundamental to their nature, the others of which were laid out in the post you were quoting.

    Amusingly, how much does the government spend on subsidies to farmers? It seems to me we basically do have a "public option" for at least the corn industry.

    taeric on
  • gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8

    gigEsmalls on
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    That article was almost as disingenuous as you are. Almost.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8

    Dude, the right is fearmongering and spreading disinformation. I can understand why the Obarry administration would want to stomp on those fires.

    And, really, what is it with attempting to discredit legislation by attacking individuals? I'd bang Pelosi but i certainly wouldn't vote for her. What she did or didn't say during the Bush administration is irrelevant.

    Richard_Dastardly on
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8

    Dude, the right is fearmongering and spreading disinformation. I can understand why the Obarry administration would want to stomp on those fires.

    And, really, what is it with attempting to discredit legislation by attacking individuals? I'd bang Pelosi but i certainly wouldn't vote for her. What she did or didn't say during the Bush administration is irrelevant.

    Its not about the legislation. Its about the next election and the Republicans regaining power, it always is. They aren't interested in governing, just winning elections.

    DeMint admits its about "Obama's Waterloo"

    Well that and "freedom solutions."

    PantsB on
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The Death Panel thing wasn't an issue cuz of palin

    it's an issue because Republicans on the committees writing the legislation has started repeating the meme

    nexuscrawler on
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    taeric wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Food is not a good that requires insurance. Everyone knows that they will need a more or less constant supply of food. In contrast to medical care where everyone knows that they have no clue when a massive bankrupting cost will fall on them out of the heavens. This is only one of the massive number of differences between food and medical care which is fundamental to their nature, the others of which were laid out in the post you were quoting.

    Amusingly, how much does the government spend on subsidies to farmers? It seems to me we basically do have a "public option" for at least the corn industry.

    Wouldn't food stamp not only be a public option, but a single payer option?

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8

    Dude, the right is fearmongering and spreading disinformation. I can understand why the Obarry administration would want to stomp on those fires.

    And, really, what is it with attempting to discredit legislation by attacking individuals? I'd bang Pelosi but i certainly wouldn't vote for her. What she did or didn't say during the Bush administration is irrelevant.

    Its not about the legislation. Its about the next election and the Republicans regaining power, it always is. They aren't interested in governing, just winning elections.

    DeMint admits its about "Obama's Waterloo"

    Well that and "freedom solutions."

    Abba's Waterloo?

    gigEsmalls on
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The Death Panel thing wasn't an issue cuz of palin

    it's an issue because Republicans on the committees writing the legislation has started repeating the meme

    aka lying.

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8
    I'm curious, do you agree with this article?

    Quid on
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8
    I'm curious, do you agree with this article?
    I'm going to assume so, since he starts out describing it as "good" and finishes that line by mocking the President.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8
    I'm curious, do you agree with this article?
    I'm going to assume so, since he starts out describing it as "good" and finishes that line by mocking the President.

    Deservedly so too.

    gigEsmalls on
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Good article about Obama lashing out at those who he blames for his poor leadership on HC reform. Boo hoo!

    Obama Snares Palin, Media in Wide Blame-Game Net: Caroline Baum

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aNjLN73fQVj8
    I'm curious, do you agree with this article?
    I'm going to assume so, since he starts out describing it as "good" and finishes that line by mocking the President.

    Deservedly so too.
    Well, you're wrong on both again, but that's not surprising.

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Deservedly so too.
    So you agree that insurance companies are not gouging their customers?

    Quid on
  • MblackwellMblackwell Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Oh god... HR3400 is the worst bill I've ever looked at. Only slight exaggeration.

    None of the mechanisms in it are different than the usual Republican proposals for ANY bill, and none of them have been shown to be particularly effective in this instance. Where in the bill are the proposals for things that are KNOWN to work?

    In the end, I have to say that's why I hate Republicans (note that I don't hate classical conservatives), they have a "one-size-fits-all" answer for everything. The world isn't that simple.

    Mblackwell on
    Music: The Rejected Applications | Nintendo Network ID: Mblackwell

  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Goumindong wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    I see your point in the difference but what about another necessity like food for example? Even with food stamps and charities people still go hungry in America. Why isn't there a push for a single payer supermarket? Everyone should pay the same for a head of cabbage, right?

    Food is not a good that requires insurance. Everyone knows that they will need a more or less constant supply of food. In contrast to medical care where everyone knows that they have no clue when a massive bankrupting cost will fall on them out of the heavens. This is only one of the massive number of differences between food and medical care which is fundamental to their nature, the others of which were laid out in the post you were quoting.

    The short answer is that the majority of starvation deaths in the United States, if any significant number exist[it does not make any report that i can find, which puts its total rate at a necessary number under 1.2% of deaths] do not come from a lack of access to foo, but from other extenuating circumstances such as negligence and malice, things that would not go away in a single payer food system.

    If a single payer food system could save any lives in the United States i would be surprised, and the necessary infrastructure required to make such a system work would be less efficient than the system that we have in place today.

    Quoting this in a vain hope that gig will at least read it.

    Narian on
    Narian.gif
  • gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Deservedly so too.
    So you agree that insurance companies are not gouging their customers?

    Insurance companies need oversight. Do you agree that President Obama is looking to others to blame for his poor leadership? It's ok to say yes.

    gigEsmalls on
  • KastanjKastanj __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    Mblackwell wrote: »
    Oh god... HR3400 is the worst bill I've ever looked at. Only slight exaggeration.

    None of the mechanisms in it are different than the usual Republican proposals for ANY bill, and none of them have been shown to be particularly effective in this instance. Where in the bill are the proposals for things that are KNOWN to work?

    In the end, I have to say that's why I hate Republicans (note that I don't hate classical conservatives), they have a "one-size-fits-all" answer for everything. The world isn't that simple.

    Empiricism, accumulated experience, using the tried and tested, using careful, reality-based approaches to problem-solving rather than trying to fit reality around your idealism...

    Those are conservative principles. Why would you expect anything of the sort from the republican party, which only survives in a society that allows people to say that up is down - as long as they say it with gusto?

    Kastanj on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Deservedly so too.
    So you agree that insurance companies are not gouging their customers?

    Insurance companies need oversight. Do you agree that President Obama is looking to others to blame for his poor leadership? It's ok to say yes.

    No. Have you stopped beating your wife?

    PantsB on
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  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Deservedly so too.
    So you agree that insurance companies are not gouging their customers?

    Insurance companies need oversight. Do you agree that President Obama is looking to others to blame for his poor leadership? It's ok to say yes.
    That's not what I asked.

    Do you, or do you not, think insurance companies are gouging their customers? You said you agreed with the article, and the article says they are not. I'm not answering any of your loaded questions until you answer this. And no, mine isn't loaded, as it's based directly on a statement made in the article you're saying is so great. So kindly answer whether or not you agree with what this oh so wonderful article says.

    Quid on
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    The article really says Insurance companies aren't gouging their customers? Really now??

    I have minimal coverage and I pay $250 a month for my wife and I. God help me if I actually get something serious.

    urahonky on
  • gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    PantsB wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Deservedly so too.
    So you agree that insurance companies are not gouging their customers?

    Insurance companies need oversight. Do you agree that President Obama is looking to others to blame for his poor leadership? It's ok to say yes.

    No. Have you stopped beating your wife?

    I have gf and where did I ever say I beat her?

    gigEsmalls on
  • Richard_DastardlyRichard_Dastardly Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Insurance companies need oversight. Do you agree that President Obama is looking to others to blame for his poor leadership? It's ok to say yes.
    I would agree that Obama and the rest of the Democratic leadership are handling the attacks very poorly. They should be staying on message and not letting themselves get drawn into the gutterfights.

    Richard_Dastardly on
  • gigEsmallsgigEsmalls __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    The article really says Insurance companies aren't gouging their customers? Really now??

    I have minimal coverage and I pay $250 a month for my wife and I. God help me if I actually get something serious.

    At least your wife has coverage. My gf has none but she doesn't think government should be an option. She did agreed with the John Mackey (Whole Foods CEO) op-ed though.

    gigEsmalls on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue The studying beaver That beaver sure loves studying!Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Deservedly so too.
    So you agree that insurance companies are not gouging their customers?

    Insurance companies need oversight. Do you agree that President Obama is looking to others to blame for his poor leadership? It's ok to say yes.

    No. Have you stopped beating your wife?

    I have gf and where did I ever say I beat her?

    You heard it here first, gigEsmalls cheats on his wife and beats his mistress.

    SyphonBlue on
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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    The article really says Insurance companies aren't gouging their customers? Really now??

    I have minimal coverage and I pay $250 a month for my wife and I. God help me if I actually get something serious.

    At least your wife has coverage. My gf has none but she doesn't think government should be an option. She did agreed with the John Mackey (Whole Foods CEO) op-ed though.

    I have private insurance, since I am only a temp aide at my job (Even though I've been working 40 hours a week for the past two months). She also works part time. If the government health insurance were available, and cheaper, I would jump on that so fast. I don't see why it would effect you if they offered it.

    urahonky on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    So you're not going to answer my question?

    Quid on
  • Armored GorillaArmored Gorilla Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    So you're not going to answer my question?

    Man, it's been 10 minutes and there are seven posts to read between your question and the end of the thread. How is he supposed to keep up?

    Armored Gorilla on
    "I'm a mad god. The Mad God, actually. It's a family title. Gets passed down from me to myself every few thousand years."
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited August 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    The article really says Insurance companies aren't gouging their customers? Really now??

    I have minimal coverage and I pay $250 a month for my wife and I. God help me if I actually get something serious.

    At least your wife has coverage. My gf has none but she doesn't think government should be an option. She did agreed with the John Mackey (Whole Foods CEO) op-ed though.

    I have private insurance, since I am only a temp aide at my job (Even though I've been working 40 hours a week for the past two months). She also works part time. If the government health insurance were available, and cheaper, I would jump on that so fast. I don't see why it would effect you if they offered it.

    You realize that's quite cheap, yeah? The "Steal the Swiss Plan" guy posted a link to what they (the Swiss) pay, and it's like twice that for single coverage.

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • mrdobalinamrdobalina Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Qingu wrote: »

    Let me try to make sense of this then.

    You're opposed to anything that doesn't control cost.
    The point of the public plan is that it controls costs.
    But you're opposed to the public plan.
    Why?
    .....Because Medicare is bad? (compared to what?)

    In all of the two pages you have been asserting that you have a detailed argument somewhere in your post history, you could have spent one post to restate it.

    I don't think you have one. I think you are simply nitpicking ad-hoc based on principles like "cost control" that you don't actually give a shit about.

    You must be daft. I linked back to my post on the 8 points, which specifically stated I supported the end of rescision -- which is clearly not a cost saving reform.

    I also posted that I believe cost control comes first, not that it is the only reform needed.

    I also posted that a public plan, by itself, does not address the cost of care, but only how far the cost is spread around.

    I posted that Medicare under-reimburses for the cost of services, and that expanding the pool of patients paid under that or similar programs without cost-controls will impact services at hospitals and clinics.

    I've said all of this in the last few pages and in the link I provided.
    Seriously dude, no. I'm not engaging in your argument about slavery and stoning.
    I suspect for the same reason that you're not honestly engaging in the health care argument. Because you don't actually have a position you can defend.[/QUOTE]
    You're a fucking asshole. Mod, infract me if you want, but I'm tired of this guy insinuating that my religious beliefs require me to publicly state I'm against slavery and murder.

    mrdobalina on
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    Deservedly so too.
    So you agree that insurance companies are not gouging their customers?

    Insurance companies need oversight. Do you agree that President Obama is looking to others to blame for his poor leadership? It's ok to say yes.

    No. Have you stopped beating your wife?

    I have gf and where did I ever say I beat her?

    Well you seem like that kind of guy.

    Kipling217 on
    The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
  • mrdobalinamrdobalina Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Dobilina, if I have one suggestion?

    I know how hard it is to be dog-piled upon these boards, especially if you have an unpopular point of view. One of the effects is, as you notice, that you have to post information and your statements over and over again. Write them down in a text file, save it, and whenever you're asked for these points you can post them quickly without much effort. As somebody who's really interested in this debate here and on the American national level (for my own selfish reasons), I'd hate to see it deteriorating into a 'Yes!' and 'No!' shouting (or more than it is now). So save your more important arguments in a text file, and use it to answer questions you'll be asked time again and again.
    and be prepared for your opponents doing the same with counterarguments

    I work on a roaming network. My computer changes often. But you do have a point.

    mrdobalina on
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    The article really says Insurance companies aren't gouging their customers? Really now??

    I have minimal coverage and I pay $250 a month for my wife and I. God help me if I actually get something serious.

    At least your wife has coverage. My gf has none but she doesn't think government should be an option. She did agreed with the John Mackey (Whole Foods CEO) op-ed though.

    I have private insurance, since I am only a temp aide at my job (Even though I've been working 40 hours a week for the past two months). She also works part time. If the government health insurance were available, and cheaper, I would jump on that so fast. I don't see why it would effect you if they offered it.

    You realize that's quite cheap, yeah? The "Steal the Swiss Plan" guy posted a link to what they (the Swiss) pay, and it's like twice that for single coverage.

    For bare minimum coverage?

    urahonky on
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    gigs, have you never heard of "When did you stop beating your wife?"? This is not some trick or lie, I honestly want to know.

    Captain Carrot on
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited August 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    The article really says Insurance companies aren't gouging their customers? Really now??

    I have minimal coverage and I pay $250 a month for my wife and I. God help me if I actually get something serious.

    At least your wife has coverage. My gf has none but she doesn't think government should be an option. She did agreed with the John Mackey (Whole Foods CEO) op-ed though.

    I have private insurance, since I am only a temp aide at my job (Even though I've been working 40 hours a week for the past two months). She also works part time. If the government health insurance were available, and cheaper, I would jump on that so fast. I don't see why it would effect you if they offered it.

    You realize that's quite cheap, yeah? The "Steal the Swiss Plan" guy posted a link to what they (the Swiss) pay, and it's like twice that for single coverage.

    For bare minimum coverage?

    Certainly not, but minimum coverage (and what does that even mean for health insurance? for car insurance it means the minimum required by the state) for 1/4 of the price doesn't seem like gouging without a lot more details.

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    gigEsmalls wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    The article really says Insurance companies aren't gouging their customers? Really now??

    I have minimal coverage and I pay $250 a month for my wife and I. God help me if I actually get something serious.

    At least your wife has coverage. My gf has none but she doesn't think government should be an option. She did agreed with the John Mackey (Whole Foods CEO) op-ed though.

    I have private insurance, since I am only a temp aide at my job (Even though I've been working 40 hours a week for the past two months). She also works part time. If the government health insurance were available, and cheaper, I would jump on that so fast. I don't see why it would effect you if they offered it.

    You realize that's quite cheap, yeah? The "Steal the Swiss Plan" guy posted a link to what they (the Swiss) pay, and it's like twice that for single coverage.

    For bare minimum coverage?

    Certainly not, but minimum coverage (and what does that even mean for health insurance? for car insurance it means the minimum required by the state) for 1/4 of the price doesn't seem like gouging without a lot more details.

    I still have to pay for just about everything. Doctor's visits, allergy shots, meds, x-rays, etc. Minimum basically means if I go to the ER they will pay 80% and I pay 20%.

    urahonky on
  • Hockey JohnstonHockey Johnston Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    mrdobalina wrote: »
    I also posted that I believe cost control comes first, not that it is the only reform needed.

    I also posted that a public plan, by itself, does not address the cost of care, but only how far the cost is spread around.

    There's a lot to talk about here, but a fair starting point would be that a public plan, by itself, obviously *does* address the cost of care.

    It so obviously does (I mean, that's how it works) that I think you probably need to elaborate on your points here. Medicare drives costs down. You called that 'under-reimbursement', but that's just another word for cost controls.

    Hockey Johnston on
This discussion has been closed.