I know this is not exactly a fresh or previously-unheard opinion, but I think we're already at a point where there's enough hardware power to allow people to start shifting their attention to mood or style and away from just trying to push polygon counts.
Honestly, I would rather play Okami than Crysis 3. The end results of most 3d engines seem fairly samey to me in the way they're used and the visual language with which the art direction is typically speaking. The cel shading/cross hatched sort of pencil look to things like Valkyria Chronicles really grab my attention whenever I see them. I've played a lot of 360 games with 3 dudes running around and none of them really differentiated themselves beyond minor flavor variation in costume or set design.
The next big jump that would interest me would be getting away from having only one tool in the toolbox, namely wrapping textures around polygons. If the computing horsepower were there, I'd like to see a game where objects were made of bodies of compressed and colored gas, liquid or light. Physics engines get better every day, lighting engines get better every day and the hardware gets better every day. I want to see a leap akin to the jump from Academic classicism in the 19th century to Impressionism. Right now, I still feel like the overwhelming majority of games are all students of the same visual "school" right now, although we're moving into things where camera work, cloth simulations and the like make a game like Little Big Planet stick out as developing its own language.
I want to see games serve up a catholicism of styles on par with the rise of Modernism in painting.
I wish people would stop pretending that crysis is just pretty graphics and empty gameplay. If it's a boring shitty shooter it's because that's how you're choosing to play it. I was a stealthy predator and fucked with patrols as much as I engaged them, and it was one of the best shooters I've played in years. Of course, I played it on the hardest difficulty and run+gun gameplay would get me dead in a heartbeat.
I mean shitballs, in Crysis:Warhead there was a rail section, where sitting on the rails was entirely optional. Want to sprint alongside the train and jack someone's ride? Go nuts!
That's actually something I'd like to see more of, great physics combined with good AI and a character with the tools to exploit both.
Robman is 100% right (oh god I feel so dirty typing that). Crysis is a fucking great game with excellent gameplay and level design. It's really fun to play and completely rewards several different gameplay styles.
Player must have at least some smidgen of imagination, though. Drones who just like to trudge through endless identical corridors and confusing Covenant- I mean alien star cruisers need not apply.
It's so funny that everyone in this thread is so desperate to start some kind of stupid fucking fanboy argument
Nowhere in that post did he imply that Crysis was "just pretty graphics and empty gameplay." He was saying he preferred Okami's graphics over Crysis 3's, making the point that style is more effective than realism
Is reading comprehension a lost art nowadays or something
I stopped reading his comment after he said "I'd rather play xxx instead of Crysis" after reading how he was tired of pushing graphics. Every other time someone talks about Crysis and graphics, they're saying how it's a shitty game (while being the kind of person who only uses armour and stealth modes).
So yeah, guess I kind of got up in his grill for no reason. JAMBAAGLR
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
I stopped reading his comment after he said "I'd rather play xxx instead of Crysis" after reading how he was tired of pushing graphics. Every other time someone talks about Crysis and graphics, they're saying how it's a shitty game (while being the kind of person who only uses armour and stealth modes).
So yeah, guess I kind of got up in his grill for no reason. JAMBAAGLR
Well you have succeeded in ascribing motive and intent where there was none
Way to go, sport
Seriously, this is the third time I've had to defend another poster in this thread from something they didn't even say, it's sort of irritating
I stopped reading his comment after he said "I'd rather play xxx instead of Crysis" after reading how he was tired of pushing graphics. Every other time someone talks about Crysis and graphics, they're saying how it's a shitty game (while being the kind of person who only uses armour and stealth modes).
So yeah, guess I kind of got up in his grill for no reason. JAMBAAGLR
Well you have succeeded in ascribing motive and intent where there was none
Way to go, sport
Seriously, this is the third time I've had to defend another poster in this thread from something they didn't even say, it's sort of irritating
What's actually irritating is that's pretty much all you've done in this thread.
The only one jumping down peoples throats is you.
Well, and Robman in that post; but your metamoding isn't necessary at all.
I stopped reading his comment after he said "I'd rather play xxx instead of Crysis" after reading how he was tired of pushing graphics. Every other time someone talks about Crysis and graphics, they're saying how it's a shitty game (while being the kind of person who only uses armour and stealth modes).
So yeah, guess I kind of got up in his grill for no reason. JAMBAAGLR
Well you have succeeded in ascribing motive and intent where there was none
Way to go, sport
Seriously, this is the third time I've had to defend another poster in this thread from something they didn't even say, it's sort of irritating
What's actually irritating is that's pretty much all you've done in this thread.
The only one jumping down peoples throats is you.
Well, and Robman in that post; but your metamoding isn't necessary at all.
I don't think it's "metamoding" to correct people's mistaken assumptions
Metamodding would be "STAY ON TOPIC/YOU SHOULD BE INFRACTED/THAT IS AGAINST THE RULES"
Also I have posted about graphics! That was my first post in this thread
What I'm saying is that there's been a distinct lack of jumping down throats and fanboyism in the thread. Misunderstandings, sure, but nothing that's lead to any real bickering.
I know this is not exactly a fresh or previously-unheard opinion, but I think we're already at a point where there's enough hardware power to allow people to start shifting their attention to mood or style and away from just trying to push polygon counts.
Honestly, I would rather play Okami than Crysis 3. The end results of most 3d engines seem fairly samey to me in the way they're used and the visual language with which the art direction is typically speaking. The cel shading/cross hatched sort of pencil look to things like Valkyria Chronicles really grab my attention whenever I see them. I've played a lot of 360 games with 3 dudes running around and none of them really differentiated themselves beyond minor flavor variation in costume or set design.
The next big jump that would interest me would be getting away from having only one tool in the toolbox, namely wrapping textures around polygons. If the computing horsepower were there, I'd like to see a game where objects were made of bodies of compressed and colored gas, liquid or light. Physics engines get better every day, lighting engines get better every day and the hardware gets better every day. I want to see a leap akin to the jump from Academic classicism in the 19th century to Impressionism. Right now, I still feel like the overwhelming majority of games are all students of the same visual "school" right now, although we're moving into things where camera work, cloth simulations and the like make a game like Little Big Planet stick out as developing its own language.
I want to see games serve up a catholicism of styles on par with the rise of Modernism in painting.
I wish people would stop pretending that crysis is just pretty graphics and empty gameplay. If it's a boring shitty shooter it's because that's how you're choosing to play it. I was a stealthy predator and fucked with patrols as much as I engaged them, and it was one of the best shooters I've played in years. Of course, I played it on the hardest difficulty and run+gun gameplay would get me dead in a heartbeat.
I mean shitballs, in Crysis:Warhead there was a rail section, where sitting on the rails was entirely optional. Want to sprint alongside the train and jack someone's ride? Go nuts!
That's actually something I'd like to see more of, great physics combined with good AI and a character with the tools to exploit both.
Robman is 100% right (oh god I feel so dirty typing that). Crysis is a fucking great game with excellent gameplay and level design. It's really fun to play and completely rewards several different gameplay styles.
Player must have at least some smidgen of imagination, though. Drones who just like to trudge through endless identical corridors and confusing Covenant- I mean alien star cruisers need not apply.
Are we talking about graphics for video games or are we talking about whether Crysis was a good game? I was just using it as an example since it was in the original post about us going from the Commodore 64-->Crysis.
I don't really have much of an opinion about Crysis as a game as I only played it briefly. As far as the graphics go, I ran around in game on a friend's computer and came away with the feeling that it was an incredibly detailed and hardware-intensive rendering of an environment that was based on very familiar assumptions about what a game should look like. It embodied the Old Man Murray summary of some shooter as being the same as the last game you played "but with 10-15% more polygons," or however they phrased it.
I think Crysis was competent and pretty from a technical standpoint, but it was a bunch of polygons with textures on them representing some woods and dudes with guns. It looked like most video games look to me, as opposed something like to the example I was offering, "hay wat if game objects were made of rendered vapor rather than polygons with texture."
On deeper reflection I think the "next big thing" for gaming will be head tracking for a lot more games. Sure, right now you need TrackIR and $$$ to do it, but as better webcams get out there it's only a matter of time until some brilliant programmer writes some lean code to track your head.
God that would be so awesome in a racing game, it would remove all the normal feeling of lost perspective that you get by using the driver's view. And once you start using it in flight games, you start to wonder what the fuck was wrong with the developers when a space sim or flight sim doen't have it as an option.
actually there is something like that. You do need to make the led thingy to attach to a headset, but other than that all you need is the free software and a webcam.
It's been announced Gran Turismo 5 can do it with just the Playstation Eye.
On deeper reflection I think the "next big thing" for gaming will be head tracking for a lot more games. Sure, right now you need TrackIR and $$$ to do it, but as better webcams get out there it's only a matter of time until some brilliant programmer writes some lean code to track your head.
God that would be so awesome in a racing game, it would remove all the normal feeling of lost perspective that you get by using the driver's view. And once you start using it in flight games, you start to wonder what the fuck was wrong with the developers when a space sim or flight sim doen't have it as an option.
actually there is something like that. You do need to make the led thingy to attach to a headset, but other than that all you need is the free software and a webcam.
It's been announced Gran Turismo 5 can do it with just the Playstation Eye.
I will believe it when I can see it.
But, my webcam already has stuff that can track my head pretty well (applying special effects to my face!) and it was a 50 dollar job from microsoft. If it has the resolution to do that, it should be able to detect my head normally and interpret my motion. Because I say so.
On deeper reflection I think the "next big thing" for gaming will be head tracking for a lot more games. Sure, right now you need TrackIR and $$$ to do it, but as better webcams get out there it's only a matter of time until some brilliant programmer writes some lean code to track your head.
God that would be so awesome in a racing game, it would remove all the normal feeling of lost perspective that you get by using the driver's view. And once you start using it in flight games, you start to wonder what the fuck was wrong with the developers when a space sim or flight sim doen't have it as an option.
actually there is something like that. You do need to make the led thingy to attach to a headset, but other than that all you need is the free software and a webcam.
It's been announced Gran Turismo 5 can do it with just the Playstation Eye.
I will believe it when I can see it.
But, my webcam already has stuff that can track my head pretty well (applying special effects to my face!) and it was a 50 dollar job from microsoft. If it has the resolution to do that, it should be able to detect my head normally and interpret my motion. Because I say so.
Can't find the link at the mo but the quote is:
Able to track the movement of Cockpit Camera interface (confirmed in full 3-D. The camera can be fully manipulated and you can opt to have your head tracked by the PSEye)
Man I haven't seen Sword in the Stone in like 20 years. I watched the shit out of that.
And yeah, for the longest time, I wondered why Dragon's Lair looked exactly the same. It wasn't until I had the power of the internets that I was informed why.
On deeper reflection I think the "next big thing" for gaming will be head tracking for a lot more games. Sure, right now you need TrackIR and $$$ to do it, but as better webcams get out there it's only a matter of time until some brilliant programmer writes some lean code to track your head.
God that would be so awesome in a racing game, it would remove all the normal feeling of lost perspective that you get by using the driver's view. And once you start using it in flight games, you start to wonder what the fuck was wrong with the developers when a space sim or flight sim doen't have it as an option.
actually there is something like that. You do need to make the led thingy to attach to a headset, but other than that all you need is the free software and a webcam.
It's been announced Gran Turismo 5 can do it with just the Playstation Eye.
I will believe it when I can see it.
But, my webcam already has stuff that can track my head pretty well (applying special effects to my face!) and it was a 50 dollar job from microsoft. If it has the resolution to do that, it should be able to detect my head normally and interpret my motion. Because I say so.
TrackIR and the free tracker software need at least 3 leds (or IR reflective points) at different positions in all 3 axis to track all the possible movements: looking side to side, looking up and down, approaching and going away from the camera, moving the entire head up and down and side to side and rotating the head. It's just like the wiimote sensor, only inverted (camera is fixed and IR lights are moving) and with more dimensions.
I don't think just a camera can do all that, without the IR leds. It can probably track the looking.
The first time my jaw dropped at excellent graphics? I remember it - it was Mario 64 when I was able to look from one side of the first level o the other. Also, those concrete slab guys who tried to squish you were impressive looking, too. The 3D effects made me dizzy and I distinctly remember my dreams being affected - after playing hours of Mario 64, I could still hear the camera's sound effect in my sleep.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited August 2009
When I got my Genesis with Altered Beast and Golden Axe at launch. With the headphone jack. I was pretty blown away.
On deeper reflection I think the "next big thing" for gaming will be head tracking for a lot more games. Sure, right now you need TrackIR and $$$ to do it, but as better webcams get out there it's only a matter of time until some brilliant programmer writes some lean code to track your head.
God that would be so awesome in a racing game, it would remove all the normal feeling of lost perspective that you get by using the driver's view. And once you start using it in flight games, you start to wonder what the fuck was wrong with the developers when a space sim or flight sim doen't have it as an option.
I have to say, this level of interaction is not something im looking forward to. I understand the draw, but for me gaming is not something i want to be that involved with. Im not looking for a replacement for reality. Just a virtual distraction.
Also, i fail to see how that would increase my involvement with a game. I can only imagine difficulty with normal life while trying to play a game (i.e. turning to talk to my wife or see the T.V. or any number of things.) I can say if things reach some virtual Reality state with headsets and all that, ill stop gaming (i dont even like wearing headphones though). Once again, I believe these are tools that games do not need. Most of the games we, as a bunch of elitist gamers hold up as classic or otherwise excellent would gain nothing from such technology
It's funny, but I wasn't really wowed by the 2d-3d transition.
I was wowed by the next gen after that (gamecube/ps2 era), because the early games had smoother animation. Yep- I didn't notice the better graphics, just the higher FPS. That probably says something about me.
Even though I've never played it Metal Slug is my favorite 2d sprite game in terms of looks simply because of how clean-looking the animation is.
I was at a Toys R Us gaming kiosk. I stood there for probably an hour playing that game. I had to have it after that. The kiosk demo sold me. It was so amazing. Damn.
And to be honest, to this day, I still enjoy the sort of impressionistic look of the game. I just wish I could get a better resolution and framerate. But I like the funky colorful blocky style it has.
I was at a Toys R Us gaming kiosk. I stood there for probably an hour playing that game. I had to have it after that. The kiosk demo sold me. It was so amazing. Damn.
And to be honest, to this day, I still enjoy the sort of impressionistic look of the game. I just wish I could get a better resolution and framerate. But I like the funky colorful blocky style it has.
I pretty much crapped myself the first time I flew through the tunnels of a space station into a boss fight.
On deeper reflection I think the "next big thing" for gaming will be head tracking for a lot more games. Sure, right now you need TrackIR and $$$ to do it, but as better webcams get out there it's only a matter of time until some brilliant programmer writes some lean code to track your head.
God that would be so awesome in a racing game, it would remove all the normal feeling of lost perspective that you get by using the driver's view. And once you start using it in flight games, you start to wonder what the fuck was wrong with the developers when a space sim or flight sim doen't have it as an option.
I have to say, this level of interaction is not something im looking forward to. I understand the draw, but for me gaming is not something i want to be that involved with. Im not looking for a replacement for reality. Just a virtual distraction.
Also, i fail to see how that would increase my involvement with a game. I can only imagine difficulty with normal life while trying to play a game (i.e. turning to talk to my wife or see the T.V. or any number of things.) I can say if things reach some virtual Reality state with headsets and all that, ill stop gaming (i dont even like wearing headphones though). Once again, I believe these are tools that games do not need. Most of the games we, as a bunch of elitist gamers hold up as classic or otherwise excellent would gain nothing from such technology
that's exactly the kind of thing people who never tried head tracking say. At least watch some demo videos, they're really cool.
Although, obviously, the high level head-tracking is definitely not for wii sports or fast pace shooters or maybe even burnout. It's for slower paced sim games. Like ARMA, IL2, Falcon, not-completely-crazy-arcade racing games.
The new Need for Speed and the various excellent rally games would be dick shittingly awesome with head tracking. It would let you glance at the dash when you need to and focus on the road, like real driving.
I think the most impressed I have ever been by graphics was when the first trailer came out for Metal Gear Solid 2 for PS2. I remember watching the rain effects and the realistic bullet damage to enemies and the environment (bullets hitting the guards riot shields) and just thinking, "This is it, we have come as far as we can." Man that trailer was awesome, still is.
Even though I've never played it Metal Slug is my favorite 2d sprite game in terms of looks simply because of how clean-looking the animation is.
I don't understand what has happened here. Why haven't you played a Metal Slug game if you like the way it looks? They're the best run-and-gun platformers ever to have graced the Earth.
More generally, it's entirely likely that the uncanny valley will kick in video-game wise, and everyone will start looking for more abstract presentation when it comes to games. Just sayin'.
Even though I've never played it Metal Slug is my favorite 2d sprite game in terms of looks simply because of how clean-looking the animation is.
I don't understand what has happened here. Why haven't you played a Metal Slug game if you like the way it looks? They're the best run-and-gun platformers ever to have graced the Earth.
Yeah, especially when the Metal Slug Collection is like less than $20 now, and that even so a good number of Metal Slugs are available on the digital distro platforms.
Posts
It's so funny that everyone in this thread is so desperate to start some kind of stupid fucking fanboy argument
Nowhere in that post did he imply that Crysis was "just pretty graphics and empty gameplay." He was saying he preferred Okami's graphics over Crysis 3's, making the point that style is more effective than realism
Is reading comprehension a lost art nowadays or something
I mean what the hell, guys
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
So yeah, guess I kind of got up in his grill for no reason. JAMBAAGLR
Well you have succeeded in ascribing motive and intent where there was none
Way to go, sport
Seriously, this is the third time I've had to defend another poster in this thread from something they didn't even say, it's sort of irritating
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
What's actually irritating is that's pretty much all you've done in this thread.
The only one jumping down peoples throats is you.
Well, and Robman in that post; but your metamoding isn't necessary at all.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I don't think it's "metamoding" to correct people's mistaken assumptions
Metamodding would be "STAY ON TOPIC/YOU SHOULD BE INFRACTED/THAT IS AGAINST THE RULES"
Also I have posted about graphics! That was my first post in this thread
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
What I'm saying is that there's been a distinct lack of jumping down throats and fanboyism in the thread. Misunderstandings, sure, but nothing that's lead to any real bickering.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Are we talking about graphics for video games or are we talking about whether Crysis was a good game? I was just using it as an example since it was in the original post about us going from the Commodore 64-->Crysis.
I don't really have much of an opinion about Crysis as a game as I only played it briefly. As far as the graphics go, I ran around in game on a friend's computer and came away with the feeling that it was an incredibly detailed and hardware-intensive rendering of an environment that was based on very familiar assumptions about what a game should look like. It embodied the Old Man Murray summary of some shooter as being the same as the last game you played "but with 10-15% more polygons," or however they phrased it.
I think Crysis was competent and pretty from a technical standpoint, but it was a bunch of polygons with textures on them representing some woods and dudes with guns. It looked like most video games look to me, as opposed something like to the example I was offering, "hay wat if game objects were made of rendered vapor rather than polygons with texture."
Has someone told Pata that this is a real game yet?
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
It's been announced Gran Turismo 5 can do it with just the Playstation Eye.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
I will believe it when I can see it.
But, my webcam already has stuff that can track my head pretty well (applying special effects to my face!) and it was a 50 dollar job from microsoft. If it has the resolution to do that, it should be able to detect my head normally and interpret my motion. Because I say so.
That costs too much and the market for that is too small for this to ever be viable.
Unless it's a game with the name "Mario" in it.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Apparently not.
From Software are awesome. First Demon's Souls, now this... thing. Artistic expression over realism, kthxbai.
Read my book. (It has a robot in it.)
I heard it did pretty good!
Can't find the link at the mo but the quote is:
I don't see why it wouldn't be possible really.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
I think there is more control input in actually just watching a disney movie than "playing" Dragon's Lair though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80ZsCIOE3gY
Space Ace looked a little better in my opinion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPxRpub81_w
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
asfsghew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4uAHtW6yqo
Which Don Bluth worked on. He did a lot of Disney work and later movies like Rats of NIMH.
I always thought Sir Kay from that movie looked exactly like Dirk.
3D Dot Game Heroes.
Read my book. (It has a robot in it.)
DEMERITS!
And yeah, for the longest time, I wondered why Dragon's Lair looked exactly the same. It wasn't until I had the power of the internets that I was informed why.
TrackIR and the free tracker software need at least 3 leds (or IR reflective points) at different positions in all 3 axis to track all the possible movements: looking side to side, looking up and down, approaching and going away from the camera, moving the entire head up and down and side to side and rotating the head. It's just like the wiimote sensor, only inverted (camera is fixed and IR lights are moving) and with more dimensions.
I don't think just a camera can do all that, without the IR leds. It can probably track the looking.
I have to say, this level of interaction is not something im looking forward to. I understand the draw, but for me gaming is not something i want to be that involved with. Im not looking for a replacement for reality. Just a virtual distraction.
Also, i fail to see how that would increase my involvement with a game. I can only imagine difficulty with normal life while trying to play a game (i.e. turning to talk to my wife or see the T.V. or any number of things.) I can say if things reach some virtual Reality state with headsets and all that, ill stop gaming (i dont even like wearing headphones though). Once again, I believe these are tools that games do not need. Most of the games we, as a bunch of elitist gamers hold up as classic or otherwise excellent would gain nothing from such technology
I was wowed by the next gen after that (gamecube/ps2 era), because the early games had smoother animation. Yep- I didn't notice the better graphics, just the higher FPS. That probably says something about me.
Even though I've never played it Metal Slug is my favorite 2d sprite game in terms of looks simply because of how clean-looking the animation is.
I was at a Toys R Us gaming kiosk. I stood there for probably an hour playing that game. I had to have it after that. The kiosk demo sold me. It was so amazing. Damn.
And to be honest, to this day, I still enjoy the sort of impressionistic look of the game. I just wish I could get a better resolution and framerate. But I like the funky colorful blocky style it has.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
I pretty much crapped myself the first time I flew through the tunnels of a space station into a boss fight.
Have you played Wario Land: Shake It? If not, you need to.
that's exactly the kind of thing people who never tried head tracking say. At least watch some demo videos, they're really cool.
Although, obviously, the high level head-tracking is definitely not for wii sports or fast pace shooters or maybe even burnout. It's for slower paced sim games. Like ARMA, IL2, Falcon, not-completely-crazy-arcade racing games.
:^:
I just want to concur with this statement.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
Something about the style makes it much more impressive than all of the games with super duper textures.
Dude. four fucking sensors, a Sony Glasstron with a laser pointer on it, and a Novint Falcoln. That's less than five hundred dollars.
I don't understand what has happened here. Why haven't you played a Metal Slug game if you like the way it looks? They're the best run-and-gun platformers ever to have graced the Earth.
More generally, it's entirely likely that the uncanny valley will kick in video-game wise, and everyone will start looking for more abstract presentation when it comes to games. Just sayin'.
Yeah, especially when the Metal Slug Collection is like less than $20 now, and that even so a good number of Metal Slugs are available on the digital distro platforms.
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games