What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.
Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.
Is it really being irresponsible for a 16 year old to be spending his paycheck, y'know if he's not responsible for putting food on the table or something? I mean, since most teenagers are still getting food and board from their parents, why shouldn't they spend their money? I got a job at 16 to have some cash that I can spend. Once I paid the insurance payment on my car, that money was spending money. Does a 16 year old need to be saving in an IRA or something to pass your personal responsibility test?
I would guess he means lots of impulse buying instead of planning ahead. Which favors malls because they are made for impulse shopping.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
I've seen similar policies at malls around me, and I tend to think the real problem is that they're essentially unenforceable. Unless you're willing to have a guard at every entrance carding everybody coming in like a bar, there's no way to make it work.
What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.
Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.
Is it really being irresponsible for a 16 year old to be spending his paycheck, y'know if he's not responsible for putting food on the table or something? I mean, since most teenagers are still getting food and board from their parents, why shouldn't they spend their money? I got a job at 16 to have some cash that I can spend. Once I paid the insurance payment on my car, that money was spending money. Does a 16 year old need to be saving in an IRA or something to pass your personal responsibility test?
I would guess he means lots of impulse buying instead of planning ahead. Which favors malls because they are made for impulse shopping.
WHY kids should be responsible with their cash is beyond me. Teach them responsibility, make them work for rent, but beyond that let them go berserk with their cash. They've got the rest of their lives to be responsible, and a few years of saving from 16 - 19 isn't going to get them anywhere better in life.
We blew our cash on modding cars and buying videogames. While I'm not too excited to see a whole generation growing up assaulting old people in Florida, it'd be just as bad to watch a rank-and-file generation of tie wearing teens all saving their money for retirement and not even living life.
What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.
Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.
Is it really being irresponsible for a 16 year old to be spending his paycheck, y'know if he's not responsible for putting food on the table or something? I mean, since most teenagers are still getting food and board from their parents, why shouldn't they spend their money? I got a job at 16 to have some cash that I can spend. Once I paid the insurance payment on my car, that money was spending money. Does a 16 year old need to be saving in an IRA or something to pass your personal responsibility test?
I would guess he means lots of impulse buying instead of planning ahead. Which favors malls because they are made for impulse shopping.
Definitely this. And I'm guessing quite a few of them are going to be going to college eventually. While I can't fault someone for wanting to have some fun during their teenage years, 16 isn't too young to at least think ahead when it comes to your money.
Edit: uean, I agree completely, but there's still a balance to be had. I spent a lot of money on guitars and amps, and my fair share on video games, but still managed to save $1000 a year for college. I had a higher paying job than most teenagers, I'd assume, but the point is you can definitely do both.
What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.
Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.
Is it really being irresponsible for a 16 year old to be spending his paycheck, y'know if he's not responsible for putting food on the table or something? I mean, since most teenagers are still getting food and board from their parents, why shouldn't they spend their money? I got a job at 16 to have some cash that I can spend. Once I paid the insurance payment on my car, that money was spending money. Does a 16 year old need to be saving in an IRA or something to pass your personal responsibility test?
I would guess he means lots of impulse buying instead of planning ahead. Which favors malls because they are made for impulse shopping.
Definitely this. And I'm guessing quite a few of them are going to be going to college eventually. While I can't fault someone for wanting to have some fun during their teenage years, 16 isn't too young to at least think ahead when it comes to your money.
Who says they need to go to college at 19 though? Get a few years of work under your belt, life experience, and venture out to college at 21 or 22. I can't imagine a non-Carlton thinking about their future at 16. Kids are irresponsible and dumb, but that's such a great time of life, why strip it away from them....
My local mall has a similar policy. It's pretty bad for the 14-16 crowd, but an older teenager not causing problems/yelling/harassing others isn't going to get a second look unless the security guard is a real jerkoff.
It's mostly an "anti-crazy" rule that is put in place for the easy and no-questions-asked ejection of "problem" shoppers. If you look like you could be 18 and you aren't causing an issue, you should be fine.
I actually think the mall may have had a good reason to do this. In my area the amount of middle-high schoolers that hang out at the mall on friday nights is huge. Its alot of the goth/wannabe punk kids who do it and they get all dressed up (fishnet shirts are not rare) and go out and just stand there and walk around. I imagine they buy a little bit of stuff but it is a bit intimidating to try and walk in there on a friday night.
I know my aunt once tried to go in there to shop and left because the shear mass of people running around screaming fighting and not really shopping. Everyone I have known that went to the mall to buy things would do it not on a friday night they would go during the week, get what they want and go. They didn't just go there to hang out that isn't really shopping thats just treating the mall like its your friends house.
I know my aunt once tried to go in there to shop and left because the shear mass of people running around screaming fighting and not really shopping. Everyone I have known that went to the mall to buy things would do it not on a friday night they would go during the week, get what they want and go. They didn't just go there to hang out that isn't really shopping thats just treating the mall like its your friends house.
A good point.
Though the Bread Garden is delicious, and I have been known to waste an entire day in the mall just waiting for my hunger to lure me back for a second go.
I could see maybe a no large groups type thing as understandable, but that does seem kind of silly. Any arcade style place is going to probably see a hit in business, as are music stores that cater to anything other than general things.
What really gets me though is the employee one. You would think that any teen under the age of 18 that works there would appreciate their job enough not to cause trouble. Also, if work hours are what they usually are, if they wanted/needed to do some shopping after 6pm, why punish someone who works for you because of age?
What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.
Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.
Is it really being irresponsible for a 16 year old to be spending his paycheck, y'know if he's not responsible for putting food on the table or something? I mean, since most teenagers are still getting food and board from their parents, why shouldn't they spend their money? I got a job at 16 to have some cash that I can spend. Once I paid the insurance payment on my car, that money was spending money. Does a 16 year old need to be saving in an IRA or something to pass your personal responsibility test?
Fuck, I wish I'd put cash into an IRA back when I was in highschool. My dad showed me the math on it when I turned 18 and he made me an offer to match me dollar for dollar.
On a related note I also wish I'd done it when I was 18 :P
It sucks, but I can understand the impetus behind this. There's a mall here which had become a hang-out spot for local teens. On Friday and Saturday nights, the common areas of the mall would become so clogged with teenagers that it was near impossible to actually shop. Fights and crime were an issue. As usual, the good kids had to get punished because some of their peers acted like douchebags.
Eggplant Wizard on
Hello
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.
Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.
It's less that they don't spend their money, and more that they don't have that much money to spend, outside of what an accompanying parent would be giving them.
What's up with people thinking kids don't spend their money? Isn't that all they do (other than get into trouble, I guess)? Pretty much everyone I know spent their money like idiots until they got to college or after and they realized that they can't do that anymore. If they didn't there wouldn't be so many stores geared towards them. And if that mall is like pretty much every mall I've ever been to, that counts for a lot of the stores.
Kids are generally quite irresponsible, and that definitely includes their spending habits.
Is it really being irresponsible for a 16 year old to be spending his paycheck, y'know if he's not responsible for putting food on the table or something? I mean, since most teenagers are still getting food and board from their parents, why shouldn't they spend their money? I got a job at 16 to have some cash that I can spend. Once I paid the insurance payment on my car, that money was spending money. Does a 16 year old need to be saving in an IRA or something to pass your personal responsibility test?
Fuck, I wish I'd put cash into an IRA back when I was in highschool. My dad showed me the math on it when I turned 18 and he made me an offer to match me dollar for dollar.
On a related note I also wish I'd done it when I was 18 :P
I just stick mine in a bank account or let it rot in my wallet. Buying stuff would probably be the financially sound thing for me to do.
My local mall sucks. All of the good stores closed down and shit, so us teenage kids really just dick around elsewhere. But our area isn't bad as far as illegal shit among teens goes. Unless you count marijuana usage. About one quarter of our school seems to have a wake and bake policy.
Once when I worked at Wal-Mart, I heard a story from one of the assistant managers about a store manager that was brought to combat shrink at a store in our district. He made sure that assets protection guys grabbed everyone, even for batteries or a stick of gum, and called the cops rather than just letting them go with a store ban for minor shit. Groups of teens were encouraged to break up. People with any kind of backpacks or baggy clothes were followed around. Return policies were made stricter to avoid taking in items from other stores (as a company they're actually heading this route right now, and I'm not sure it'll pay off come winter)
His store's profits dropped like a rock. Customers felt like they were being harrassed, someone caught shoplifting a candy bar who had the book thrown at them would tell their family, who would stop shopping their. The cops always outside made it feel like it was crime infested.
I'm sure the local Target loved that guy... anyway it just reminds me of this
I know just how annoying mobs of kids can be from a job I had at a Books-A-Million.
thisthisthis. I used to work for a major bookstore and I could not get over how obnoxious all the teenagers were. Maybe other parts of the country are different, but I lived in a fairly affluent city, and the kids would come in to the coffee shop, order their iced drinks individually, fuck with the displays (moving sex books to the children's section is so clever!) and not buy anything outside their 3 dollar blended drink. When I was a teenager (which was seriously 4 years ago) it would never have crossed my mind to go to a bookstore and fuck with the books. If I went to a bookstore, it was to buy a book, maybe browse a bit, and then leave.
After working in a major retail bookstore, I was hoping and praying some time of rule like this would be imposed for our mall. We would probably "lose" about $100 a weekend in revenue, but we'd never have to deal with the cafe being clogged up with obnoxiously loud teenagers who grab piles of books that we have to spend hours reshelving.
Besides all of that, I'm all for kids spending more time with their parents. Which they would have to do if they have to be accompanied. So, while I can see why this may poorly affect business, I think it's still a good idea in theory.
...I sound like I'm 80 years old. Where's my cane? You dang kids!
I know just how annoying mobs of kids can be from a job I had at a Books-A-Million.
*snip*
...I sound like I'm 80 years old. Where's my cane? You dang kids!
*sigh* GET OFF MY LAWN!
(Did I really have to help you with that one?)
While you may not have rearranged books, I'm sure you did plenty of stupid stuff. I love how everyone is all "kids are the DEVIL" but guess what, you were there, you were the devil in your day, learn to laugh at it or consider a job that doesn't attract bored people
For the record, I rearranged books, and it was retarded, but it was funny at the time to my underdeveloped dumbass brain
Sincerely,
The Committee for Not Letting My Generation Turn Into My Parents
The mall near where I grew up (Crossgates Mall) did exactly this like five years ago. They might even be owned by the same company, who knows? They're still doing okay, although another nearby mall that was sort of on the way out (Colonie Center Mall) ended up getting kinda revitalized from the whole thing.
That's idiotic. Even money on the place being closed six months later.
This.
This is always what happens to dying malls. They kick out the kids, the parents therefore do not want to come spend money, the mall dies.
Happens every. Single. Time.
There was a god damn mall in the middle of Downtown Omaha. Every single bus in the city had to go past it.. People 18 or under couldn't be in the mall by themselves and they didn't allow people waiting for the bus to stand inside, forcing them to be outside in the cold/extreme heat.
Now it's a parking garage.
Crossroads Mall kicked out the bus riders and kids, and now it has gone under too.
It's like they all live in a vacuum and don't see the other malls shooting themselves in the foot.
The mall near where I grew up (Crossgates Mall) did exactly this like five years ago. They might even be owned by the same company, who knows? They're still doing okay, although another nearby mall that was sort of on the way out (Colonie Center Mall) ended up getting kinda revitalized from the whole thing.
Oh man, I haven't been to Crossgates in years, now. I remember they had that policy, as well, though I can't say I ever spent too much time there on Friday and Saturday nights. Where I grew up, our local mall instituted this sort of policy a couple of years ago, as well.
While you may not have rearranged books, I'm sure you did plenty of stupid stuff. I love how everyone is all "kids are the DEVIL" but guess what, you were there, you were the devil in your day, learn to laugh at it or consider a job that doesn't attract bored people
For the record, I rearranged books, and it was retarded, but it was funny at the time to my underdeveloped dumbass brain
Sincerely,
The Committee for Not Letting My Generation Turn Into My Parents
To be honest, I'm going on 20 and I still see that as relatively amusing.
Just imagine the position you've put hundreds of uptight parents in!
"Mommy, mommy! What's a reverse cowgirl?"
"Mommy mommy, billy said I should do a 69 to him but we don't know what it is."
Heh.
Whenever I see alarm clocks on display I also like to set them to ring 5 minutes apart from each other. I don't purposefully go into a shop to do JUST that, but if I'm there and they're there it just has to be done.
I suppose you're all going to have a go at me for being horribly immature, but just live a little. We've got enough time for mortgages and mid-life crises.
Seems pretty similar to a policy instituted by a mall near where I grew up (Carousel Mall in Syracuse) quite a few years ago. I don't know if it applied to mall employees there though, that seems stupid.
yeah. it's still in effect as far as I know, and it started like 6 years ago or something.
geckahn on
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DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
While you may not have rearranged books, I'm sure you did plenty of stupid stuff. I love how everyone is all "kids are the DEVIL" but guess what, you were there, you were the devil in your day, learn to laugh at it or consider a job that doesn't attract bored people
For the record, I rearranged books, and it was retarded, but it was funny at the time to my underdeveloped dumbass brain
Sincerely,
The Committee for Not Letting My Generation Turn Into My Parents
To be honest, I'm going on 20 and I still see that as relatively amusing.
Just imagine the position you've put hundreds of uptight parents in!
"Mommy, mommy! What's a reverse cowgirl?"
"Mommy mommy, billy said I should do a 69 to him but we don't know what it is."
Heh.
Whenever I see alarm clocks on display I also like to set them to ring 5 minutes apart from each other. I don't purposefully go into a shop to do JUST that, but if I'm there and they're there it just has to be done.
I suppose you're all going to have a go at me for being horribly immature, but just live a little. We've got enough time for mortgages and mid-life crises.
That's the kind of prank that usually brightened my day when I was working retail. Unless I was already having a spectacularly bad day, I'd get a big grin out of that. Wads of chewing gum stuck in between books? Not so much. But I don't want to sound like I'm pro-draconian age policy. I always made an effort to be even handed with the kids. Well, except for the ones who gave me grief directly to my face. They'd get the boot.
I suppose you're all going to have a go at me for being horribly immature, but just live a little. We've got enough time for mortgages and mid-life crises.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I JUST SWAPPED THE DUST JACKETS ON ALL THE BOOKS IN THE SCI-FI SECTION!
That's the kind of prank that usually brightened my day when I was working retail. Unless I was already having a spectacularly bad day, I'd get a big grin out of that. Wads of chewing gum stuck in between books? Not so much. But I don't want to sound like I'm pro-draconian age policy. I always made an effort to be even handed with the kids. Well, except for the ones who gave me grief directly to my face. They'd get the boot.
Haha well yeah, I mean I never do anything nasty like stick chewing gum between books. That's just bang out of order.
But smaller things, yeah. I'd never be rude to someone either, unless they came across as accusatory or aggressive.
There was this one librarian though, man I fucking hated her. She'd always believe other people over me, you know the whole "it wasn't me, it was him" spiel that guilty kids always do? Well, she'd always believe them when they said I'd screwed around in the library.
Sometimes old people can be blind and unfair, damn old people.
That's idiotic. Even money on the place being closed six months later.
This.
This is always what happens to dying malls. They kick out the kids, the parents therefore do not want to come spend money, the mall dies.
Happens every. Single. Time.
There was a god damn mall in the middle of Downtown Omaha. Every single bus in the city had to go past it.. People 18 or under couldn't be in the mall by themselves and they didn't allow people waiting for the bus to stand inside, forcing them to be outside in the cold/extreme heat.
Now it's a parking garage.
Crossroads Mall kicked out the bus riders and kids, and now it has gone under too.
It's like they all live in a vacuum and don't see the other malls shooting themselves in the foot.
Crossroads mall died because it is a shithole and no one sane wants to go there when there are better options like 2 miles away, unless it's to die.
Counterpoint; Mall of America has had this policy since a year or so after its opening when there were a few incidents of gang violence within the mall. I believe it's vacancy rate is far below the national average even in the current consumer climate, and they were thinking of expanding. I think the age limit was 18, but it has been a while since I lived in Minneapolis and actually cared about the age policy in the mall. There were expemptions for employees at the mall and they have guards near most of the major mall entrances checking IDs. At the time I thought it was some grave injustice, but then again at the time I was a retard, so there is that. Then again no teenager in that area can make the good faith claim that there is nothing else for them to do either.
Teenagers are obnoxious at malls and I don't find it hard to believe at all that they incur more in costs than they spend in income. The discretionary income of a teenager is tiny compared to that of almost any working adult.
Aren't a huge chunk of America's malls going broke anyway? I heard/read somewhere that the company who owned about half of the mall real estate (the mall buildings themselves, I'm assuming) lost a shitton of money last fall and a lot of them are closing down. Don't know if it's true or not, but I was in Rivergate in Nashville about a month ago and about half the store space was empty. That place used to be booming.
I can see employees at Gamestop and EB absolutely high-fiving each other over this. Stores like this are essentially dumping grounds for parents who want to shop but don't want to drag little Johnny all over the mall.
Aren't a huge chunk of America's malls going broke anyway? I heard/read somewhere that the company who owned about half of the mall real estate (the mall buildings themselves, I'm assuming) lost a shitton of money last fall and a lot of them are closing down. Don't know if it's true or not, but I was in Rivergate in Nashville about a month ago and about half the store space was empty. That place used to be booming.
Commercial real estate in general has been sumo-fucked by the recent downturn. Malls are just an extension of that.
Teenagers are obnoxious at malls and I don't find it hard to believe at all that they incur more in costs than they spend in income. The discretionary income of a teenager is tiny compared to that of almost any working adult.
This is questionable. Adults may have more money, but they also have better things to spend it on (big ticket electronics like TVs, vacations, cars, etc) than random shit you find in malls. Adults are also more likely to shop online or at department stores.
This policy seems very unsound economically.
HamHamJ on
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
The area seems to do pretty well though. To the mall proper they actually do post security guards who won't let anyone that appears too young in. I've seen them turn away a few people at times. I have no idea how the off street style stores handle this though or whether they even enforce it. I know I've seen teenagers in the Barnes and Noble pretty late at night before.
I've never personally been annoyed by any teenagers other than the usual teenagers being teenagers stuff like randomly stopping for no reason and blocking walking traffic or yelling across the mall. You know, stuff that's only mildly irritating at worst.
I thought the rule was 10PM and that made more sense as the only places open that late are the Barnes and Noble and bars I believe. I think 8:30PM might be too early as there are still some stores that cater to a younger clientele still open.
There was a similar setup in an area I hung out in as a teenager. It was patrolled by a city cop. He would usually only do anything if someone was causing trouble for other patrons. For instance, I would sit outside a coffee shop drinking coffee, chain smoke, and read until about midnight every Friday and Saturday and a word was never said to me. Other teenagers would even ask "how come you don't make him leave too?" and the cop would respond "he bought something, he's sitting there reading and not bothering anyone". Unequal treatment for sure, but I didn't mind. Sort of a "don't draw unnecessary attention to yourself and I don't give a damn" policy.
Teenagers are obnoxious at malls and I don't find it hard to believe at all that they incur more in costs than they spend in income. The discretionary income of a teenager is tiny compared to that of almost any working adult.
This is questionable. Adults may have more money, but they also have better things to spend it on (big ticket electronics like TVs, vacations, cars, etc) than random shit you find in malls. Adults are also more likely to shop online or at department stores.
In short, the US consumer spends a ton of money on things outside of vacations and cars. And a great deal of those items can be found within a mall. Food Away from Home alone is almost as large as the net outlay for vehicle purchases.
Furthermore, the claim that adults shop online more needs substantiation. I don't see a logical inference that would bear that out. And department stores are present in almost any indoor mall as anchors, so I fail to see how that is even at play.
According to Market Research teens spent about $153 billion in 2006. The GDP that year was just shy of $14 trillion that year (according to the CIA factbook, bea.gov was giving me lip), with consumer spending making up ~70% of that. So discriminating against them is not tantamount to financial suicide.
I can see employees at Gamestop and EB absolutely high-fiving each other over this. Stores like this are essentially dumping grounds for parents who want to shop but don't want to drag little Johnny all over the mall.
Until they lose their jobs because the store closes due to lack of sales.
The mall here in town (Columbia, Mo) has this same policy, almost verbatim. I disliked it when they first put it into place, but I have to admit that it's a lot nicer going to the mall on the weekend when I don't have a bunch of 12-18 year-olds running around (for reference, I'm 27). Granted, I know it is only an obnoxious minority causing any problems, but I can understand that the revenue brought in by the under 18 crowd on those days probably doesn't make up for the inconvenience of having them there. I'd think that the proportion of teenagers that want to hang out at the mall at those times but can't drive themselves probably A) is small and don't have much disposable income to offer the stores there.
However, this is a college town, and a MASSIVE portion of the mall's profits come from the 18-25 demographic. Stores even reduce their hours during the summer months to minimize their losses while the students are away. There have been quite a few establishments in the town that have to close down over the summer because they don't know how to handle the three month drought.
They tried this at one of the malls in Fresno, but it didn't take. Personally I would have stopped going entirely had they instituted it - wandering around malls is a huge part of my childhood, and the only thing that kept me from being stuck home in the woods for summers on end or hanging out in a cat lady aunt's house after school. And fuck that.
Teenagers are obnoxious at malls and I don't find it hard to believe at all that they incur more in costs than they spend in income. The discretionary income of a teenager is tiny compared to that of almost any working adult.
This is questionable. Adults may have more money, but they also have better things to spend it on (big ticket electronics like TVs, vacations, cars, etc) than random shit you find in malls. Adults are also more likely to shop online or at department stores.
In short, the US consumer spends a ton of money on things outside of vacations and cars. And a great deal of those items can be found within a mall. Food Away from Home alone is almost as large as the net outlay for vehicle purchases.
Furthermore, the claim that adults shop online more needs substantiation. I don't see a logical inference that would bear that out. And department stores are present in almost any indoor mall as anchors, so I fail to see how that is even at play.
According to Market Research teens spent about $153 billion in 2006. The GDP that year was just shy of $14 trillion that year (according to the CIA factbook, bea.gov was giving me lip), with consumer spending making up ~70% of that. So discriminating against them is not tantamount to financial suicide.
There isn't an even distribution, not by a long shot, of where they shop though. Teens in some areas simply spend most all their money at the mall. They hang out there all day, blow all their cash on concessions and crap, and go home.
So while teens only make up $153b, most of that is spent on frivilous things. A much smaller percentage of an adult's income is spent on the kind of crap you find at a mall, and is instead spent at a place like wal-mart where you can also pick up groceries and tape and baby crap - which you can't do at every mall. You can, however, find clothes for teenagers, video games, music, and food at every mall.
It's not true everywhere certainly, but I've seen firsthand a mall banning teens after hours die, a mall that had up until that point been doing quite well. Sure it doesn't kill the whole mall, but a half dozen stores going out of business in a sub optimal economic climate can bring the whole thing down.
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I would guess he means lots of impulse buying instead of planning ahead. Which favors malls because they are made for impulse shopping.
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
WHY kids should be responsible with their cash is beyond me. Teach them responsibility, make them work for rent, but beyond that let them go berserk with their cash. They've got the rest of their lives to be responsible, and a few years of saving from 16 - 19 isn't going to get them anywhere better in life.
We blew our cash on modding cars and buying videogames. While I'm not too excited to see a whole generation growing up assaulting old people in Florida, it'd be just as bad to watch a rank-and-file generation of tie wearing teens all saving their money for retirement and not even living life.
PSN - sumowot
Definitely this. And I'm guessing quite a few of them are going to be going to college eventually. While I can't fault someone for wanting to have some fun during their teenage years, 16 isn't too young to at least think ahead when it comes to your money.
Edit: uean, I agree completely, but there's still a balance to be had. I spent a lot of money on guitars and amps, and my fair share on video games, but still managed to save $1000 a year for college. I had a higher paying job than most teenagers, I'd assume, but the point is you can definitely do both.
Who says they need to go to college at 19 though? Get a few years of work under your belt, life experience, and venture out to college at 21 or 22. I can't imagine a non-Carlton thinking about their future at 16. Kids are irresponsible and dumb, but that's such a great time of life, why strip it away from them....
PSN - sumowot
It's mostly an "anti-crazy" rule that is put in place for the easy and no-questions-asked ejection of "problem" shoppers. If you look like you could be 18 and you aren't causing an issue, you should be fine.
Crummy rule, in general, though.
I know my aunt once tried to go in there to shop and left because the shear mass of people running around screaming fighting and not really shopping. Everyone I have known that went to the mall to buy things would do it not on a friday night they would go during the week, get what they want and go. They didn't just go there to hang out that isn't really shopping thats just treating the mall like its your friends house.
A good point.
Though the Bread Garden is delicious, and I have been known to waste an entire day in the mall just waiting for my hunger to lure me back for a second go.
PSN - sumowot
There are still arcades? O:
Fuck, I wish I'd put cash into an IRA back when I was in highschool. My dad showed me the math on it when I turned 18 and he made me an offer to match me dollar for dollar.
On a related note I also wish I'd done it when I was 18 :P
It's less that they don't spend their money, and more that they don't have that much money to spend, outside of what an accompanying parent would be giving them.
Less than half of teens are employed.
I just stick mine in a bank account or let it rot in my wallet. Buying stuff would probably be the financially sound thing for me to do.
His store's profits dropped like a rock. Customers felt like they were being harrassed, someone caught shoplifting a candy bar who had the book thrown at them would tell their family, who would stop shopping their. The cops always outside made it feel like it was crime infested.
I'm sure the local Target loved that guy... anyway it just reminds me of this
After working in a major retail bookstore, I was hoping and praying some time of rule like this would be imposed for our mall. We would probably "lose" about $100 a weekend in revenue, but we'd never have to deal with the cafe being clogged up with obnoxiously loud teenagers who grab piles of books that we have to spend hours reshelving.
Besides all of that, I'm all for kids spending more time with their parents. Which they would have to do if they have to be accompanied. So, while I can see why this may poorly affect business, I think it's still a good idea in theory.
...I sound like I'm 80 years old. Where's my cane? You dang kids!
*sigh* GET OFF MY LAWN!
(Did I really have to help you with that one?)
While you may not have rearranged books, I'm sure you did plenty of stupid stuff. I love how everyone is all "kids are the DEVIL" but guess what, you were there, you were the devil in your day, learn to laugh at it or consider a job that doesn't attract bored people
For the record, I rearranged books, and it was retarded, but it was funny at the time to my underdeveloped dumbass brain
Sincerely,
The Committee for Not Letting My Generation Turn Into My Parents
PSN - sumowot
This.
This is always what happens to dying malls. They kick out the kids, the parents therefore do not want to come spend money, the mall dies.
Happens every. Single. Time.
There was a god damn mall in the middle of Downtown Omaha. Every single bus in the city had to go past it.. People 18 or under couldn't be in the mall by themselves and they didn't allow people waiting for the bus to stand inside, forcing them to be outside in the cold/extreme heat.
Now it's a parking garage.
Crossroads Mall kicked out the bus riders and kids, and now it has gone under too.
It's like they all live in a vacuum and don't see the other malls shooting themselves in the foot.
Oh man, I haven't been to Crossgates in years, now. I remember they had that policy, as well, though I can't say I ever spent too much time there on Friday and Saturday nights. Where I grew up, our local mall instituted this sort of policy a couple of years ago, as well.
Looks like it's more of a growing trend.
To be honest, I'm going on 20 and I still see that as relatively amusing.
Just imagine the position you've put hundreds of uptight parents in!
"Mommy, mommy! What's a reverse cowgirl?"
"Mommy mommy, billy said I should do a 69 to him but we don't know what it is."
Heh.
Whenever I see alarm clocks on display I also like to set them to ring 5 minutes apart from each other. I don't purposefully go into a shop to do JUST that, but if I'm there and they're there it just has to be done.
I suppose you're all going to have a go at me for being horribly immature, but just live a little. We've got enough time for mortgages and mid-life crises.
yeah. it's still in effect as far as I know, and it started like 6 years ago or something.
That's the kind of prank that usually brightened my day when I was working retail. Unless I was already having a spectacularly bad day, I'd get a big grin out of that. Wads of chewing gum stuck in between books? Not so much. But I don't want to sound like I'm pro-draconian age policy. I always made an effort to be even handed with the kids. Well, except for the ones who gave me grief directly to my face. They'd get the boot.
I JUST SWAPPED THE DUST JACKETS ON ALL THE BOOKS IN THE SCI-FI SECTION!
THIS IS EXHILARATING!
Not that everyone else here hadn't already come to that conclusion, but I'd like to repeat it because I like to think I'm smart.
Haha well yeah, I mean I never do anything nasty like stick chewing gum between books. That's just bang out of order.
But smaller things, yeah. I'd never be rude to someone either, unless they came across as accusatory or aggressive.
There was this one librarian though, man I fucking hated her. She'd always believe other people over me, you know the whole "it wasn't me, it was him" spiel that guilty kids always do? Well, she'd always believe them when they said I'd screwed around in the library.
Sometimes old people can be blind and unfair, damn old people.
Crossroads mall died because it is a shithole and no one sane wants to go there when there are better options like 2 miles away, unless it's to die.
Counterpoint; Mall of America has had this policy since a year or so after its opening when there were a few incidents of gang violence within the mall. I believe it's vacancy rate is far below the national average even in the current consumer climate, and they were thinking of expanding. I think the age limit was 18, but it has been a while since I lived in Minneapolis and actually cared about the age policy in the mall. There were expemptions for employees at the mall and they have guards near most of the major mall entrances checking IDs. At the time I thought it was some grave injustice, but then again at the time I was a retard, so there is that. Then again no teenager in that area can make the good faith claim that there is nothing else for them to do either.
Teenagers are obnoxious at malls and I don't find it hard to believe at all that they incur more in costs than they spend in income. The discretionary income of a teenager is tiny compared to that of almost any working adult.
Not the mall's problem.
Commercial real estate in general has been sumo-fucked by the recent downturn. Malls are just an extension of that.
This is questionable. Adults may have more money, but they also have better things to spend it on (big ticket electronics like TVs, vacations, cars, etc) than random shit you find in malls. Adults are also more likely to shop online or at department stores.
This policy seems very unsound economically.
Sexting
Everything inside Morse Rd, Morse Crossing, Steltzer, and Easton Way in this link: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=easton%20town%20center&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl
The area seems to do pretty well though. To the mall proper they actually do post security guards who won't let anyone that appears too young in. I've seen them turn away a few people at times. I have no idea how the off street style stores handle this though or whether they even enforce it. I know I've seen teenagers in the Barnes and Noble pretty late at night before.
I've never personally been annoyed by any teenagers other than the usual teenagers being teenagers stuff like randomly stopping for no reason and blocking walking traffic or yelling across the mall. You know, stuff that's only mildly irritating at worst.
I thought the rule was 10PM and that made more sense as the only places open that late are the Barnes and Noble and bars I believe. I think 8:30PM might be too early as there are still some stores that cater to a younger clientele still open.
There was a similar setup in an area I hung out in as a teenager. It was patrolled by a city cop. He would usually only do anything if someone was causing trouble for other patrons. For instance, I would sit outside a coffee shop drinking coffee, chain smoke, and read until about midnight every Friday and Saturday and a word was never said to me. Other teenagers would even ask "how come you don't make him leave too?" and the cop would respond "he bought something, he's sitting there reading and not bothering anyone". Unequal treatment for sure, but I didn't mind. Sort of a "don't draw unnecessary attention to yourself and I don't give a damn" policy.
PSN : Bolthorn
Consumer spending chart here
In short, the US consumer spends a ton of money on things outside of vacations and cars. And a great deal of those items can be found within a mall. Food Away from Home alone is almost as large as the net outlay for vehicle purchases.
Furthermore, the claim that adults shop online more needs substantiation. I don't see a logical inference that would bear that out. And department stores are present in almost any indoor mall as anchors, so I fail to see how that is even at play.
According to Market Research teens spent about $153 billion in 2006. The GDP that year was just shy of $14 trillion that year (according to the CIA factbook, bea.gov was giving me lip), with consumer spending making up ~70% of that. So discriminating against them is not tantamount to financial suicide.
Until they lose their jobs because the store closes due to lack of sales.
However, this is a college town, and a MASSIVE portion of the mall's profits come from the 18-25 demographic. Stores even reduce their hours during the summer months to minimize their losses while the students are away. There have been quite a few establishments in the town that have to close down over the summer because they don't know how to handle the three month drought.
There isn't an even distribution, not by a long shot, of where they shop though. Teens in some areas simply spend most all their money at the mall. They hang out there all day, blow all their cash on concessions and crap, and go home.
So while teens only make up $153b, most of that is spent on frivilous things. A much smaller percentage of an adult's income is spent on the kind of crap you find at a mall, and is instead spent at a place like wal-mart where you can also pick up groceries and tape and baby crap - which you can't do at every mall. You can, however, find clothes for teenagers, video games, music, and food at every mall.
It's not true everywhere certainly, but I've seen firsthand a mall banning teens after hours die, a mall that had up until that point been doing quite well. Sure it doesn't kill the whole mall, but a half dozen stores going out of business in a sub optimal economic climate can bring the whole thing down.